UFOS , yay or nay ?

nansen

I love astronomy and have a degree in physics , but this stuff is too convincing to ignore . ( two one hour vids - you may need snacks ) .

I wonder why we bother looking out telescopes when someone / something else has so much more knowledge then us - whether alien or human .

dvd 1 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6552475158249898710

dvd 2 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4694075066240662837

and yes this is science , not conspiracy theory .

I couldnt really care about alien life - but i do care about free energy.

The Hill Billy

To be honest, I'm not going to sit through two 1-hour vids before I answer your question. Yea - there are objects that fly that have not been identified.

Live long & prosper!

Donegal_TDI

nansen

I have looked at this in some detail.
Generally, Dr Greer, the guy behind the Disclosure project, is considered by those who know, to be a charlatan. I got this from someone close to the subject in general, whose character, in comparison, is impeccable.

As regards the witnesses, I really don't know.
They are many and varied and don't seem to gain monetarily or otherwise from their testimony.

You can throw Dr Mitchell, a former Apollo astronaut, into the equation too, as he broke cover last year with an alien story.
Google it.

It can be social suicide for any recognised intellectual to engage this topic,
which in itself assistes those that may want it kept hush.

There seems to be a whole industry out there in www community
feeding gullible people a never ending litany of alien bunk.

Personally, I'm on the fence on this one.

Regards.
G



Or go here....

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Strange-News/Aliens-Do-Exist-Astronaut-On-Apollo-14-Dr-Edgar-Mitchell-Says-They-Have-Made-Contact-With-Earth/Article/200807415052312

or his controversial interview on Kerrang radio here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhNdxdveK7c

or follow up interview on Fox here....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwE0vDuTm48&NR=1

Svenolsen

nansen wrote: »

I wonder why we bother looking out telescopes when someone / something else has so much more knowledge then us.

Do they really?

The people who look through telescopes never see UFOs.

The people who concoct this rubbish in order to deprive the gullible of their hard earned money never look through telescopes.

.

5uspect

nansen wrote: »

I [...] have a degree in physics
...
i do care about free energy.

Does not compute.

Donegal_TDI

In addition, they cite zero point/vacuum energy as power source for alien craft.

While heavy elements can be converted to energy,
it is currently believed by the science community that the fabric of a quantity of empty space can not.

See article below from Wikipedia....

The existence of vacuum energy is also sometimes used, outside of mainstream physics, as controversial theoretical justification for the possibility of free energy machines. It has been argued that due to the broken symmetry (in QED), free energy does not violate conservation of energy, since the laws of thermodynamics only apply to equilibrium systems. However, consensus among particle physicists is that this is incorrect and that vacuum energy cannot be harnessed to do usable work. In particular, the second law of thermodynamics is unaffected by the existence of vacuum energy.

nansen

Svenolsen wrote: »

Do they really?

The people who look through telescopes never see UFOs.

The people who concoct this rubbish in order to deprive the gullible of their hard earned money never look through telescopes.

.

so ... an actual apollo astronaut has come out and said so ?
christ - what more evidence would anyone need if a guy like this is saying it.
thats pretty cut and dried as far as im concerned.



whatever about greer being dodgy -

the fact that these known individuals can testify on camera about what they did / saw - makes it fairly convincing in my view that they are telling the truth -

I can be as sceptical as the next man - but you can search out these individuals names , and they are all mainly ex US forces people .
if they are going on camera to say this - its not like joe video cam in a field with a bottle of whiskey .

I can't see anyone making much money out of saying UFO'S are real - in fact they would ( are ) being laughed at .
particularly Doctors or forces people- so only conscience must be driving them .

there fore these beings must be real , and must have a far greater knowledge then us if they can travel across the galaxy

and they must therefore have passed this knowledge onto the people "in the know" here - whether freely or by "persuasion"

then by conclusion - certain people here on earth must likely now know more than any astronomer or physicist knows - simply because they have access to these ET'S knowledge.

regarding greer - where is the information to discredit him ? or what was said ? im curious .


the scariest issue is the issue about creating a nuclear weapons blanket to cover earth and near earth space .

why the fcuk would we be doing that - if no one exists out there ?

Donegal_TDI

What you say above is possible, but likely to be improbable.
I would really like to be proven wrong.

Regarding Greer, the word "charlatan" was quoted to me personally by a high profile media presenter in the US,
who would willingly give him the forum to present his case publicly on tv or radio. So far he has declined and does not like unpredictable direct questioning for which he is not prepared.

Ziycon

nansen wrote: »

I can be as sceptical as the next man - but you can search out these individuals names , and they are all mainly ex US forces people .

As they are all ex-US forces personal it may also all be dis-information, the US government are known for using dis-information a lot, especially in the media.

jonbravo

Donegal_TDI wrote: »

What you say above is possible, but likely to be improbable.
I would really like to be proven wrong.

Regarding Greer, the word "charlatan" was quoted to me personally by a high profile media presenter in the US,
who would willingly give him the forum to present his case publicly on tv or radio. So far he has declined and does not like unpredictable direct questioning for which he is not prepared.

Dr steven greer is not going to run in front of media propaganda presenter's in the us..and do a song and a dance....he has told us to openin our eyes and listen to people with experience and wisdom..,just look at the propaganda run by lsrael...they didnt lick it off the ground!!!

slade_x

After Moving this thread to a more appropriate forum i forgot to add my reply, lucky for me im aware of an article that loosely sums up my opinion of alien crafts visiting earth.

Article preview:

When I give public talks, I can almost guarantee that during the Q&A I’ll get asked: Do I believe in aliens and UFOs?

My answer usually gets a laugh: “Yes, and no.”

As far as aliens go, I suspect pretty strongly that there’s life in space. We know of over 300 planets orbiting other stars, and we’ve only just started looking. In our Milky Way Galaxy alone there are probably literally billions of planets. Life on Earth got started pretty rapidly, relatively speaking, after the crust cooled and liquid water formed, so we know it’s not tough for life to get its start… and it’s entirely possible there is microbial life inside icy moons orbiting Jupiter and Saturn.

So thinking aliens exist has a pretty decent scientific basis. But them coming here is an entirely different beast.

There are tens of thousands of UFOs reported every year. That’s one of the reasons a lot of people think aliens are visiting us: there’s no way that there could be that many reports if some of them weren’t real!
But that’s bad reasoning. In fact, the vast majority of reported UFOs are mundane things in the sky. The planet Venus is incredibly bright; most people don’t believe me when I point it out to them. They think it’s a nearby airplane, or some other bright earthbound object.

Not only that, but if you’re driving, it appears to follow you through the trees because it’s so far away. If it’s low to the horizon, turbulent air makes it flicker and change color. Does this sound familiar? How many UFO reports have you heard that say a huge object (people often mistake brightness for size) was following someone in their car, and it was rapidly changing color?

Yup. Venus.

Manmade satellites pass overhead several times an hour, and some brighten tremendously as a solar panel or mirrored surface catches the Sun. Meteors blaze across the sky, ice crystals refract sunlight and moonlight, atmospheric effects make a distant object appear distorted and weirdly-shaped. All of these have been mistaken for alien spacecraft.
So I know that most people misinterpret what they see. But there’s something else too. If alien spaceships are really out there abducting us and playing chicken with our airplanes, then you’d expect that people who spend more time looking at the sky would see more of them. And who spends lots of time looking up?

Amateur astronomers, of course. They are dedicated observers, out every night peering at the sky. If The Truth Is Out There, then amateur astronomers would be reporting far and away the vast majority of UFOs.
But they don’t. Why not? Because they understand the sky! They know when a twinkling light is Venus, or a satellite, or a military flare, or a hot air balloon, and so they don’t report it.

That, to me, is the killer argument that aliens aren’t visiting us. If they were, the amateur astronomers would spot them.

Of course, you might say “But just because they don’t see UFOs doesn’t mean they aren’t real. It just takes.......................

Continue Reading from the Source

Kernel

slade_x wrote: »

After Moving this thread to a more appropriate forum i forgot to add my reply, lucky for me im aware of an article that loosely sums up my opinion of alien crafts visiting earth.

Interesting article. How many amateur astronomers have seen stealth bombers? Are they not real?

slade_x

Kernel wrote: »

Interesting article. How many amateur astronomers have seen stealth bombers? Are they not real?

Countless people have witnessed test B-2 flights, I am unaware exactly how many of them were actually amateur astronomers.

On that note, Stealth bombers are real, there is documented as well as physical evidence to support the existance of stealth bombers and that they do indeed fly in our skies.

As I am unsure where you were going with your question i will pose one for you; Can you see air, is it not real? ,there we go thats about as usefull a question to the context of the article as your question is. Did i say astonomers have never seen a stealth bomber? Clearly such types of aircraft are designed to avoid detection and tracking while operating fully and consequently as such would prove difficult.

However we are not talking about crafts that are designed to avoid detection now are we, given reports of UFO's we seem to be talking about, small to large crafts, ranging in size from something as small as a UAV to large enough to cast large shadows over areas, that light up with numerous different lights and patterns, etc for the express purpose of someone actually seeing them. You dont need a telescope nor a pair of binoculars. apparently the naked eye more than suffices. unfortunately however camcorders and camera equipment seem to be pretty useless for observing such objects. what a shame.

Clearly reported UFO sightings in this context are very, and ill have to stress very easily spotted by anyone, due to their for want of a better way to describe it "fancy light shows", yet seem elusive to those "amateur astronomers" that watch the skies intently. If extra terrestrial aircrafts are invading our air space, to reiterate, clearly stealth isnt one of their concerns. I wonder why, maybe they do want to make their existance aware to us but are just to damn shy to actually make first contact

Ziycon

The odds are to high for there not to be intelligent life out there, whether it is actively visiting the earth is another question. But the whole UFO phenomena is made very confusing by the mass media and Hollywood. Once someone says UFO the first thing to pop into people's heads is 'Aliens', this has been embedded into peoples heads for years now to associate UFO's and Alien life when in reality there is many other very possible explanations.

These UFOS that people see are quite possible an unknown animal, i know it sounds strange but if you look at the giant panda and komodo dragon, these where considered strange and uknown creatures an they where feared until people hunted them down and found out about them, now we know the giant panda to be a veggie but it wasn't until people went out of their way to find an answer. Its very possible that we are looking at the UFO phenomena from the wrong perspective.

Even with all that said there is loads of other reasons as to what UFOs are but its embedded into peoples minds at a young age that UFOs = Aliens when in reality we don't know, its a possibility but there is no more evidence to suggest that its an unknown species of animal of a natural occurring phenomena.

Donegal_TDI

Most enlightened people, given the numbers, would probably come to the conclusion that it is highly unlikely that we are the only sentient species in the Galaxy. In the Milky Way, Nature has had 200 billion attempts to get a planet the right distance out from it's star to be in the habitable zone where water remains liquid. Whether life begins there, or is seeded by molecules from space, panspermia, and allowed to evolve, is all down to the game of chance and probability. Throw in a couple of billion galaxies into the cosmic cooking pot as well. Given that the Galaxy/Universe is mostly made out of the same stuff, and the fact that we are here at all, as rare as intelligent life might be, the numbers are in our favour.
They will most likely be too far away to visit, or even contact by regular means, but it doesn't mean that they are not there. Or there could yet be breakthroughs awaiting in science that will allow instantaneous communication without the propagation delay of radio, which allow us to communicate with, and ultimately join, the wider stellar community.
As to what eti's may look like, this will be down to what nature can deliver for their respective evolutionary habitats, and luck. Dinosaurs were here on earth for a very long time but deliverd little that we know about in the realms of advanced scientific intelligence and appeared to have been an evolutionary dead end for the amount of time and resources they took up.
All we have left of them are a few smart birds
Time is also a variable, some ETI's may be thousands of years behind us in their development, others may be millions ahead and may have cracked interstellar travel.

Finding out what evolution can ultimately deliver, if a species like us is allowed to develop unfettered for a few million years, is a fascinating concept.

In the cosmos, We are not alone.
G

jonbravo

slade_x wrote: »

Countless people have witnessed test B-2 flights, I am unaware exactly how many of them were actually amateur astronomers.

On that note, Stealth bombers are real, there is documented as well as physical evidence to support the existance of stealth bombers and that they do indeed fly in our skies.

As I am unsure where you were going with your question i will pose one for you; Can you see air, is it not real? ,there we go thats about as usefull a question to the context of the article as your question is. Did i say astonomers have never seen a stealth bomber? Clearly such types of aircraft are designed to avoid detection and tracking while operating fully and consequently as such would prove difficult.

However we are not talking about crafts that are designed to avoid detection now are we, given reports of UFO's we seem to be talking about, small to large crafts, ranging in size from something as small as a UAV to large enough to cast large shadows over areas, that light up with numerous different lights and patterns, etc for the express purpose of someone actually seeing them. You dont need a telescope nor a pair of binoculars. apparently the naked eye more than suffices. unfortunately however camcorders and camera equipment seem to be pretty useless for observing such objects. what a shame.

Clearly reported UFO sightings in this context are very, and ill have to stress very easily spotted by anyone, due to their for want of a better way to describe it "fancy light shows", yet seem elusive to those "amateur astronomers" that watch the skies intently. If extra terrestrial aircrafts are invading our air space, to reiterate, clearly stealth isnt one of their concerns. I wonder why, maybe they do want to make their existance aware to us but are just to damn shy to actually make first contact

not all types of ufo's are apparent to the naked eye,and there is evidence ,and it is documented ,most amateur astronomer's can be into ufology and in fact most of them are into both studies,the first photograph taken was from an astronomer at a mexican observatory ,he snapped objects crossing the face of the sun using a camera attached to his telescope.that was in august 1883...the ezekiel story has being hijacked by the experts to establish thier own versions of the truth.that is how it is in the world of ufology.......