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Civil Service Pay Analysis

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    #122
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Ticktactoe wrote: »
    By progress im referring to grade progress, CO to EO to HEO etc...
    If its progress in relation to increments APPOLOGIES!

    Generally, people mean increments when they say progressing up the scale.


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    #123
    Hillel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Hillel


    Ticktactoe wrote: »
    I dont think you realise how many people you can offend with that statement. Progress up the scale is most certainly not 'automatic' even after numerous attempts. I know there is a lot of agro on this thread, but a little consideration with certain statements wouldn't go a miss and its not just the one quoted. Sniff sniff.... im gonna go and crawl back under my rock that i just came out from under.. ;-)

    By progress im referring to grade progress, CO to EO to HEO etc...
    If its progress in relation to increments APPOLOGIES!

    No offence was intended. I was explicitly referring to progress up incremental pay scales which, to all intents and purposes, is automatic. (Yes, I know that checks such as "efficiency barriers" are supposedly built in to some scales. In practice, these tend to be ignored.

    I am very aware that grade progress is very difficult. But, it is no different in the private sector.


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    #124
    Ticktactoe
    Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭Ticktactoe


    Hillel wrote: »
    No offence was intended. I was explicitly referring to progress up incremental pay scales which, to all intents and purposes, is automatic. (Yes, I know that checks such as "efficiency barriers" are supposedly built in to some scales. In practice, these tend to be ignored.

    I am very aware that grade progress is very difficult. But, it is no different in the private sector.


    Sorry for the misunderstanding!
    I have seen posts saying that one must be 'Thick' not to get promoted (or in so many words) which got me a bit rattled cos to be fair it is hard for people to move up the ranks as you pointed out above.

    On the other point, in order to get your increment you must get an efficent rating on the Performance Management and Development System (PMDS). If at any point an employee had to be diciplined throughout the year it could and most likely would affect their rating. I dont know if automatic is the word but i woud say very likely. :)


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    #125
    Hillel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 376 ✭✭Hillel


    Ticktactoe wrote: »
    Sorry for the misunderstanding!
    I have seen posts saying that one must be 'Thick' not to get promoted (or in so many words) which got me a bit rattled cos to be fair it is hard for people to move up the ranks as you pointed out above.

    On the other point, in order to get your increment you must get an efficent rating on the Performance Management and Development System (PMDS). If at any point an employee had to be diciplined throughout the year it could and most likely would affect their rating. I dont know if automatic is the word but i woud say very likely. :)

    No problem, I would hate for the thread to become personal.

    In relation to increments....

    "Disciplining" is extremely rare in the public sector, unions tend to support their members to the bitter end. Have you knowledge of even one Civil Servant who didn't get a increment increase, other than for gross misconduct?

    Most private companies have a similar system to the PMDS. However, the bottom 5%-10%, in terms of rating, get a below average pay increase - the money "saved" is then given to the top 5%-10%. Nobody gets increments.


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    #126
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Ticktactoe wrote: »
    On the other point, in order to get your increment you must get an efficent rating on the Performance Management and Development System (PMDS). If at any point an employee had to be diciplined throughout the year it could and most likely would affect their rating. I dont know if automatic is the word but i woud say very likely. :)
    Nay, extremely likely - you don't get a pay increase if you get a 1 I believe. Well under 1% in, for example Revenue (I think it was .07%) got the 1.
    Most private companies have a similar system to the PMDS. However, the bottom 5%-10%, in terms of rating, get a below average pay increase - the money "saved" is then given to the top 5%-10%. Nobody gets increments.
    That would introduce a more merit-based approach to pay increments which unions have strongly resisted, although I'd imagine there's more than a fair few CS/PS workers here who'd prefer it! Especially given they're all hard workers they'd have no problem excelling :P


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    #127
    Ticktactoe
    Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭Ticktactoe


    ixoy wrote: »
    Nay, extremely likely - you don't get a pay increase if you get a 1 I believe. Well under 1% in, for example Revenue (I think it was .07%) got the 1.

    I think a 1 means the next step is your p45 and the door, 2 means you don't get an increment, 3 means increment and your eligible for promotion if you chose to persue it.... etc


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