Best League in Europe

redout

I read something on another thread earlier that made me want to start this thread. This is something which I posted about a week back in response to another boards members comments. My opinion is that there is no best league so much as there is three high class leagues which all are a little different to eachother and all require something different to win. Feel free to add what your own perspective of these leagues are.



I reckon the Premiership is the most competitive and hardest league to win. Arsenal raised the bar with the unbeaten season and Chelsea by only dropping the 19 points out of 114. In the premiership teams really need to know how to dig in and hold on at times more so than la liga and Serie A, a trait of the top 4 english sides when playing in europe. I reckon La liga is the most technical league and requires players of very high technical ability to win it unlike the premiership. Serie A is the most intelligent league and requires players with top footballing brains. I reckon Messi would tear English teams to shreds like we have never before seen if he played in the premiership but not so much Italian teams as they read the game so much better. All in all its hard to argue which league is undisputably better as all three require something different to win.

thusspakeblixa

But what does the "best league in Europe" even mean?
It means different things for different people.
In my opinion I would rate the Bundesliga and La Liga the highest as there is not as much of a huge gulf in standard between top 3-4 and "the rest".
-Therefore the overall standard in the league is much higher IMO.

cson

The Magners League. We'll see how many teams Messi would tear to shreds in that. :cool:

pablomakaveli

The top 4-5 clubs in the Premiership are among the best teams in Europe but outside of that the quality drops for other teams. I reckon the Spanish, Italian or German leagues would have some legitimate claims to being the best league in Europe as well.

DSB

La Liga for definite. The Premiership has a better elite though. Serie A and the Bundesliga don't even come close.

mayordenis

DSB wrote: »

La Liga for definite. The Premiership has a better elite though. Serie A and the Bundesliga don't even come close.

this would be my opinion also. In light of that you might want to change your opinion DSB

eagle eye

La Liga is still just like the Premier League, its the same few teams winning it year in year out.

Serie A is the best for competition of the three big leagues. I can understand some people thinking that there is not such a big gulf in La Liga but it doesn't matter at the top, Barca and Real contend for the title every year and then the odd time somebody pops up to challenge them and once in every five or six years they actually win it.

The Premiership is the very same although we seem to finally have teams closing in on the big four. Villa look like they could do that this year, hell they could even take a run at the title with the way they are playing, and Everton continue to amaze me, David Moyes would be my favourite to take over from Alex Ferguson by the way.

But over the last decade Serie A has been the most competitive at the top end of the league. But the Premier League is getting there now I hope.

DSB

mayordenis wrote: »

this would be my opinion also. In light of that you might want to change your opinion DSB

I'll consider it, if a suitable offer is placed on the table.

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

But what does the "best league in Europe" even mean?
It means different things for different people.
In my opinion I would rate the Bundesliga and La Liga the highest as there is not as much of a huge gulf in standard between top 3-4 and "the rest".
-Therefore the overall standard in the league is much higher IMO.

Just to argue this, just because there aren't any really good teams in Germany, does not make the overall standard of the league any higher. There are loads of leagues like that.

DSB

eagle eye wrote: »

La Liga is still just like the Premier League, its the same few teams winning it year in year out.

Serie A is the best for competition of the three big leagues. I can understand some people thinking that there is not such a big gulf in La Liga but it doesn't matter at the top, Barca and Real contend for the title every year and then the odd time somebody pops up to challenge them and once in every five or six years they actually win it.

The Premiership is the very same although we seem to finally have teams closing in on the big four. Villa look like they could do that this year, hell they could even take a run at the title with the way they are playing, and Everton continue to amaze me, David Moyes would be my favourite to take over from Alex Ferguson by the way.

But over the last decade Serie A has been the most competitive at the top end of the league. But the Premier League is getting there now I hope.

Everton shouldn't amaze anyone, they're 11 points off the top, with a horrible fixture list to come, god knows how far they'll be off come the end.

thusspakeblixa

DSB wrote: »

Just to argue this, just because there aren't any really good teams in Germany, does not make the overall standard of the league any higher. There are loads of leagues like that.

Well... that's your (and Eamon Dunphys too) opinion, but anyway.
I maintain that the Bundesliga is among the best leagues in Europe purely because it is as level a playing field as can be found in a top division in Europe. Makes the league more dynamic IMO. The EPL is stagnant outside the top 4.

DSB

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

Well... that's your (and Eamon Dunphys too) opinion, but anyway.
I maintain that the Bundesliga is among the best leagues in Europe purely because it is as level a playing field as can be found in a top division in Europe. Makes the league more dynamic IMO. The EPL is stagnant outside the top 4.

Will the League Of Ireland be among the best leagues in Europe next season?

Bubs101

Serie A used to be very far behind but the Calciopoli scandal seems to have shaken things up. Although Inter are the only real top tier club (Chelsea, Man Utd, Barca, Real (bar this season maybe) and Lyon being the others) the next 4 teams are very close and if Napoli can keep their team together next year they could pull a Verona

eagle eye

DSB wrote: »

Everton shouldn't amaze anyone, they're 11 points off the top, with a horrible fixture list to come, god knows how far they'll be off come the end.

They are the last team to break into the top four and have been up there in the top six most years under Moyes despite having had no choice but to sell Rooney, Graveson and Radzinkski who were all considered top Premier League players while at Everton.

So up there almost every year despite not having the funds that other clubs such as Spurs, Newcastle, Portsmouth and Manchester City have had, never mind the top four and their massive funds.

I'd imagine if Moyes had the funds of the top four he would be challenging for the League title every year. I'd even guess that if he had the funds of Tottenham that he would be up there challenging for the title every year.

DSB

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd imagine if Moyes had the funds of the top four he would be challenging for the League title every year. I'd even guess that if he had the funds of Tottenham that he would be up there challenging for the title every year.

You'd think that. But with not a solitary trophy to his name in 11 years of management I think it'd be fairer to say that hes better at making teams do pretty well rather than challenge for anything. Obviously he was never in a position to challenge for the Premiership but there are other trophies out there.

Also, Radzinski went to Fulham. Hardly not being able to keep him, he went for pittance.

eagle eye

DSB wrote: »

You'd think that. But with not a solitary trophy to his name in 11 years of management I think it'd be fairer to say that hes better at making teams do pretty well rather than challenge for anything. Obviously he was never in a position to challenge for the Premiership but there are other trophies out there.

Also, Radzinski went to Fulham. Hardly not being able to keep him, he went for pittance.

I suppose you just google that or something, stats, stats, stats and some of you people.

He went for half nothing because he forced the move and he was nearly out of contract. He got huge money to sign with Fulham.
It was the very same with Graveson.

DSB

I did just google it. But Fulham is the biggest stat in there for me. More telling than any numerical figure could be.

thusspakeblixa

DSB wrote: »

Will the League Of Ireland be among the best leagues in Europe next season?

It may well be in terms of excitement!
But the difference is- the Bundesliga does have a lot of quality players as well. If you watch a Bundesliga match, you'll notice that the standard and quality of play is on parallel with anything else in Europe.
If you're talking about which league has the best players then obviously the Bundesliga falls down, but football is about teams, not players.

DSB

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

It may well be in terms of excitement!
But the difference is- the Bundesliga does have a lot of quality players as well. If you watch a Bundesliga match, you'll notice that the standard and quality of play is on parallel with anything else in Europe.
If you're talking about which league has the best players then obviously the Bundesliga falls down, but football is about teams, not players.

Why can the teams rarely compete in Europe with the big boys then?

eagle eye

DSB wrote: »

I did just google it. But Fulham is the biggest stat in there for me. More telling than any numerical figure could be.

So then just because he decides to leave Everton for big money, and he was higly rated while at Everton, then he is no major loss to the team.

You confuse me.

String

5 points between 11th and 20th place in the premiership. That shows the premier league is the best league atm. Its the most competitive which automatically makes it the best in my opinion as every game can change a teams place dramiticly. And also with villa doing so well it makes it very interesting up at the top. If you are going by best teams I would still say premier league, with la liga very close to it and then serie a.

ManU = Barca = Inter
Chelsea = real madrid = milan
Liverpool = valencia = juventus
Arsenal = sevilla = Roma
Villa = villareal = fiorentina

I think if the leagues had just top teams every league would be the same really just looking at these teams. But looking at the premier league and how tough it is aswell these days to get results against any teams suggests its the best.

My 2 cents

DSB

eagle eye wrote: »

So then just because he decides to leave Everton for big money, and he was higly rated while at Everton, then he is no major loss to the team.

You confuse me.

It really isn't all that confusing. You referenced him as a top Premier League player. How many other top Premier League players can you name that decided to move to Fulham, as a step up? If top Premiership clubs had come knocking do you think he'd still have gone there? He also averaged about 5 goals a season in his time in the Premiership. Another stat there for you. Yeah, top striker.

thusspakeblixa

DSB wrote: »

Why can the teams rarely compete in Europe with the big boys then?

Because they (well, apart from Bayern) can't bring in a lot of world-class players due to their wage demands. As a result you get a lot of emerging players plying their trade in the Bundesliga.
But look- this season the title race is between the usual favourites Bayern, TSG Hoffenheim (who top the table in their first season after promotion), Hamburg (who last season finished 16th), and Hertha Berlin (who only managed a UEFA cup spot last season) aswell as about 3 - 4 other sides.
In England, Spain or Italy (less so Spain and Italy), outside of the top 3-4 teams, no one has won the title in recent years.
Does the balance and positivity not make it a better league? It does in my opinion, watch a Bundesliga match nowadays and you will be entertained much more than a lot of EPL matches.

DSB

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

Because they (well, apart from Bayern) can't bring in a lot of world-class players due to their wage demands. As a result you get a lot of emerging players plying their trade in the Bundesliga.
But look- this season the title race is between the usual favourites Bayern, TSG Hoffenheim (who top the table in their first season after promotion), Hamburg (who last season finished 16th), and Hertha Berlin (who only managed a UEFA cup spot last season) aswell as about 3 - 4 other sides.
In England, Spain or Italy (less so Spain and Italy), outside of the top 3-4 teams, no one has won the title in recent years.
Does the balance and positivity not make it a better league? It does in my opinion, watch a Bundesliga match nowadays and you will be entertained much more than a lot of EPL matches.

But you were saying a good team balances out the individuals, which it clearly doesn't since the world-class players prevail. And Hamburg finished 4th last season you mad yoke. Ps. Villa could be equated to be doing the same as Hertha Berlin.

redout

Bayern have just as good players as any other European heavyweight. The German league is a quality one no doubt. The only place were it falls imo is that nobody bar Bayern seems to mount a challenge in Europe in the last two decades. (Dortmund the exception, Leverkusen made a final)

DSB

Actually just thinking, if Hamburg had finished 16th, they wouldn't even be in the Bundesliga this season.

DSB

redout wrote: »

Bayern have just as good players as any other European heavyweight.

Surely you mean this past tense?

thusspakeblixa

DSB wrote: »

But you were saying a good team balances out the individuals, which it clearly doesn't since the world-class players prevail. And Hamburg finished 4th last season you mad yoke. Ps. Villa could be equated to be doing the same as Hertha Berlin.

Admittedly, having a Messi or Ronaldo in your side is going to be in your favour, no matter how strong a team you're playing against.
...memory lapse is a sign of old age :pl
Yeah they could, but incliding Villa, that's still a "Big 5" in the EPL, compared with the open Bundesliga
Look, all I'm saying is, in my view, the "best league" in Europe is one in which the quality of pay is of a high standard and one which is exciting.
Having an open competition like the Bundesliga only adds to the excitement.
Overall, I do think La Liga is just as good if not better

eagle eye

DSB wrote: »

It really isn't all that confusing. You referenced him as a top Premier League player. How many other top Premier League players can you name that decided to move to Fulham, as a step up? If top Premiership clubs had come knocking do you think he'd still have gone there? He also averaged about 5 goals a season in his time in the Premiership. Another stat there for you. Yeah, top striker.

So now he's a striker????

And by his time in the Premier League, I presume you are including his time at Fulham?

He certainly scored more than that per season at Everton.

But its obvious you don't actually watch the game or at least you never watched Everton while he played for them, because you might call him a forward as he played an attacking role but he was not a striker.

Its clear to me you don't have any clue what you are talking about, you just google rubbish and try to make an argument based on limited information.

Do yourself a favour sometime and sit down and watch some football, even just extended higlights. When you've done that I might, just might, consider have a discussion with you again.

thusspakeblixa

DSB wrote: »

Surely you mean this past tense?

Lahm, Klose, Ribery, Demichelis, Schweinsteiger
...maybe not as good a team as Barca or Man U but they're the same as Lyon or Arsenal in that they do have their flaws

Trippie

Bubs101 wrote: »

Serie A used to be very far behind but the Calciopoli scandal seems to have shaken things up. Although Inter are the only real top tier club (Chelsea, Man Utd, Barca, Real (bar this season maybe) and Lyon being the others) the next 4 teams are very close and if Napoli can keep their team together next year they could pull a Verona

How was Seria A very far behind before the Calciopoli scandal? Juve and Milan are still the top clubs in Italy, Inter will always have their recent success tarnished by the aftermath of the scandal and even if they win the league this season i cant see them gettign the recognition they so dearly crave.

Napoli have no chance of winning the league next year. I would gladly give you better odds than the bookies do if you believe this.

redout

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

Lahm, Klose, Ribery, Demichelis, Schweinsteiger
...maybe not as good a team as Barca or Man U but they're the same as Lyon or Arsenal in that they do have their flaws

Ze Roberto, Toni, Lucio, Sagnol, Van Bommel. I think they have a very strong team in fairness.

DSB

eagle eye wrote: »

So now he's a striker????

And by his time in the Premier League, I presume you are including his time at Fulham?

He certainly scored more than that per season at Everton.

But its obvious you don't actually watch the game or at least you never watched Everton while he played for them, because you might call him a forward as he played an attacking role but he was not a striker.

Its clear to me you don't have any clue what you are talking about, you just google rubbish and try to make an argument based on limited information.

Do yourself a favour sometime and sit down and watch some football, even just extended higlights. When you've done that I might, just might, consider have a discussion with you again.

I watch live football on a weekly basis, you horribly condescending individual. Radzinski certainly wasn't a midfielder, he certainly wasn't the type of player to change a game on a regular basis, and he had a pretty poor goalscoring record. On what basis can you possibly call him a top Premiership player? I'm not calling him rubbish, but condescending rubbish aside, what basis can you possibly find to call Tomas Radzinski a top Premiership player. Cristiano Ronaldo is a top Premiership player, Adebayor is a top Premiership player, Mikel Arteta is a top Premiership player from Everton. Radzinski was ok.

DSB

redout wrote: »

Ze Roberto, Toni, Lucio, Sagnol, Van Bommel. I think they have a very strong team in fairness.

The likes of Man United, Chelsea, Barcelona and Real all have better players than those in every single position.

Trippie

DSB wrote: »

The likes of Man United, Chelsea, Barcelona and Real all have better players than those in every single position.

Bayern would probably beat chelsea and madrid if they were to play tomorrow

DSB

Trippie wrote: »

Bayern would probably beat chelsea and madrid if they were to play tomorrow

Possibly, but that'd be a form thing. They'll never beat them over the course of a season.

redout

DSB wrote: »

The likes of Man United, Chelsea, Barcelona and Real all have better players than those in every single position.

LoL

some players in some positions by no means all.

DSB

redout wrote: »

LoL

some players in some positions by no means all.

Do give an example please? Ps. You should have mentioned Ribery. Much better option than those you put forward.

thusspakeblixa

DSB wrote: »

The likes of Man United, Chelsea, Barcelona and Real all have better players than those in every single position.

Lahm is the best Right back in the world at the moment
Klose would fit right in to Chelsea, Real Madrid or Man United no bother

redout

DSB wrote: »

Do give an example please? Ps. You should have mentioned Ribery. Much better option than those you put forward.

I would have but someone did so before me. Are you blind ?

Bubs101

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

Lahm is the best Right back in the world at the moment
Klose would fit right in to Chelsea, Real Madrid or Man United no bother

Toni > Klose anyway. Both are better than Berbatov

DSB

redout wrote: »

I would have but someone did so before me. Are you blind ?

No but I did in fact miss that.

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

Lahm is the best Right back in the world at the moment
Klose would fit right in to Chelsea, Real Madrid or Man United no bother

Lahm is most certainly not the best right back in the world, not even close. This definitely gos up there with such statements as, Stuttgart finished 16th in the Bundesliga last season.

Klose would probably be a squad player at those clubs. He doesn't have a patch on Drogba, Van Nistelrooy, Eto'o or Rooney though.

thusspakeblixa

Bubs101 wrote: »

Toni > Klose anyway. Both are better than Berbatov

Toni bottles it big time on the big occasions for club and country IMO.
I saw him scuff 3 absolute sitters over the bar in the Gottlieb-Daimler Stadion last year.
Klose would fit in to any EPL team comfortably.

eZe^

DSB wrote: »

Surely you mean this past tense?

They definitely have one of the best sides in Europe, capable of destroying good teams on their day. I think they are the dark horse for the CL, can't remember who they've drawn though.

DSB

Bubs101 wrote: »

Toni > Klose anyway. Both are better than Berbatov

Thats just one of the United strikers though. Probably the poorest of the 3. People seem to pull weird arguments out of the hat to make the weaker teams seem stronger.

eagle eye

DSB wrote: »

No but I did in fact miss that.


Lahm is most certainly not the best right back in the world, not even close.

:rolleyes:

thusspakeblixa

DSB wrote: »

Lahm is most certainly not the best right back in the world, not even close. This definitely gos up there with such statements as, Stuttgart finished 16th in the Bundesliga last season.

Klose would probably be a squad player at those clubs. He doesn't have a patch on Drogba, Van Nistelrooy, Eto'o or Rooney though.

I said Hamburg- Stuttgart are my team, I wouldn't do that with them.
Lahm is better than Alves, Eboue or Ramos. Who else is there?

Bubs101

Trippie wrote: »

How was Seria A very far behind before the Calciopoli scandal? Juve and Milan are still the top clubs in Italy, Inter will always have their recent success tarnished by the aftermath of the scandal and even if they win the league this season i cant see them gettign the recognition they so dearly crave.

Napoli have no chance of winning the league next year. I would gladly give you better odds than the bookies do if you believe this.

Juve and Milan are top clubs in italy but they aren't up their with Europe's best on paper. Milan is turning into a retirement home featuring Pato while Juve just doesn't have top quality players outside of Chiellini, Buffon and Del boy. Totti's not as good as he used to be and Totti is Roma. If you injected any top European team to challenge Inter they wouldn't be waltzing the league the way they do now

As for Napoli winning the league, it's not impossible and they're in a better position than the likes of Villa here say but it's obviously highly unlikely. I wouldn't be surprised if they got a Champion's League spot this year or next year though. This year they have an extremely easy last 10 games so if they're in a good position they should get it. If they get into the Champion's League they'll definitely be able to keep their young talent and as long as they do that they'll be a top team in 2 or 3 years. Might not be winning the league but could be taking Roma's top 4 place

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

I said Hamburg- Stuttgart are my team, I wouldn't do that with them.
Lahm is better than Alves, Eboue or Ramos. Who else is there?

Maicon can play on the right and has certainly been better than Lahm and co since arriving in italy

Trippie

Alves is pretty astonishing these days and while Lahm is a more rounded right back i think Alves would get the nod as being the best

DSB

eagle eye wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I really don't think he can be put up there to be honest. He is just another example of those players we don't see enough of, so we'll make him out to be something he isn't. He is a very good player, in the same vein as Klose. Good enough to be in any squad.

thusspakeblixa

Trippie wrote: »

Alves is pretty astonishing these days and while Lahm is a more rounded right back i think Alves would get the nod as being the best

Personally I'd see Alves as more of a Right Wing-Back, he gets forward more.
Lahm can lay RWB or RB equally as well.

Bubs101

DSB wrote: »

Thats just one of the United strikers though. Probably the poorest of the 3. People seem to pull weird arguments out of the hat to make the weaker teams seem stronger.

They're both better than Tevez and probably Rooney anyway. You won't find a more consistent league scorer than Toni