Best League in Europe

Iang87 · 13-01-2009 10:56pm

i dont really wanna read through all the arguing over player posts.

in my view the english league is so much better than the other leagues, for excitement, pace, passion and quality its much better. in spain there's no urgency and apart from a few fixtures very little passion. its a substantially slower league than the english.

The german league is prob second to the english league it just reminds me of the english league in the 90s and the way its played but because england seems to have pushed the bar the rest of european leagues in my view were left behind

DSB · 13-01-2009 10:56pm

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

I said Hamburg- Stuttgart are my team, I wouldn't do that with them.
Lahm is better than Alves, Eboue or Ramos. Who else is there?

Eboue isn't even the best right-back at Arsenal to be fair. Alves is leaps and bounds above Lahm. Serious serious amounts. Sagna is also a good bit better than Lahm. I'd say Ramos is better too.

thusspakeblixa · 13-01-2009 10:57pm

DSB wrote: »

I really don't think he can be put up there to be honest. He is just another example of those players we don't see enough of, so we'll make him out to be something he isn't. He is a very good player, in the same vein as Klose. Good enough to be in any squad.

I do see enough of him, having watched him play since he broke into the Stuttgart squad and I've yet to come across a better player in his position.
I saw Maicon when he was at Monaco- maybe he has improved since then.

Warper · 13-01-2009 10:58pm

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

Lahm is the best Right back in the world at the moment
Klose would fit right in to Chelsea, Real Madrid or Man United no bother

Dani Alves is the best right back in the world - Fact.

German league is the 4th or 5th best in Europe - i would consider it on a par with the French League. Bayern are a good team though as are Lyon in France.

Klose would never get his game in any of the top top teams in Europe - Barca,Utd, Chelsea,Milan,Madrid etc.

La Liga is the most entertaining league to watch. The Premiership has the highest no. of top class teams namely the top 4. This is obvious based on the last couple of years in the Champions League. The reason midtable teams in the EL are so close is because there are a lot of crap teams in the Premiership - the midtable teams in Spain would beat the midtable teams in the Premiership.

DSB · 13-01-2009 10:59pm

Bubs101 wrote: »

They're both better than Tevez and probably Rooney anyway. You won't find a more consistent league scorer than Toni

Now I've heard it all. Luca Toni and Klose are better than Tevez and Rooney. Ridiculous.

eZe^ · 13-01-2009 10:59pm

I was all for Bayern, but to say Lahm is better than Alves is a little silly tbh. Alves is probably the best attacking full back playing the game at the moment, his defensive side isn't as good as Maicon, but he isn't as inept defensively as people seem to think. Alves this year has been one of the main reasons Messi has prospered so much, and imo has been the best signing we've made since Ronaldinho.

Iang87 wrote: »

i dont really wanna read through all the arguing over player posts.

in my view the english league is so much better than the other leagues, for excitement, pace, passion and quality its much better. in spain there's no urgency and apart from a few fixtures very little passion. its a substantially slower league than the english.

You couldn't actually be more wrong about nearly everything you've said. Maybe you should watch some La Liga instead of talking everything that Andy Gray says as gospel truth from now on. I'll go into more detail when I've more time.

thusspakeblixa · 13-01-2009 10:59pm

Iang87 wrote: »

in spain there's no urgency and apart from a few fixtures very little passion.

No passion?!
In SPAIN?!
:eek:

DSB · 13-01-2009 11:00pm

Warper wrote: »

Dani Alves is the best right back in the world - Fact.

German league is the 4th or 5th best in Europe - i would consider it on a par with the French League. Bayern are a good team though as are Lyon in France.

Klose would never get his game in any of the top top teams in Europe - Barca,Utd, Chelsea,Milan,Madrid etc.

La Liga is the most entertaining league to watch. The Premiership has the highest no. of top class teams namely the top 4. This is obvious based on the last couple of years in the Champions League. The reason midtable teams in the EL are so close is because there are a lot of crap teams in the Premiership - the midtable teams in Spain would beat the midtable teams in the Premiership.

You're even better at putting my opinions across than I am haha.

thusspakeblixa · 13-01-2009 11:01pm

DSB wrote: »

Now I've heard it all. Luca Toni and Klose are better than Tevez and Rooney. Ridiculous.

I'd say Rooney is a lot better than either, but they're both better than Berbatov or Tevez IMO.
To get back on topic- The German league is easily in the top 3 leagues in Europe at the moment

DSB · 13-01-2009 11:03pm

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

I'd say Rooney is a lot better than either, but they're both better than Berbatov or Tevez IMO.
To get back on topic- The German league is easily in the top 3 leagues in Europe at the moment

We never really went off-topic.

Trippie · 13-01-2009 11:04pm

Bubs101 wrote: »

Juve and Milan are top clubs in italy but they aren't up their with Europe's best on paper. Milan is turning into a retirement home featuring Pato while Juve just doesn't have top quality players outside of Chiellini, Buffon and Del boy. Totti's not as good as he used to be and Totti is Roma. If you injected any top European team to challenge Inter they wouldn't be waltzing the league the way they do now

I would argue that Milan would still be ranked higher than Inter and Juve when considering europe's best. Out of all the teams who could win the champions league they are the only ones who would be considered for it from Italy. And yes Pato is showing signs of being something truly special and Milan should get the best out of him in the future.

Inter are extremely over rated and continuously playing pretty poor football with more over the hill playrs in the squad than Milan have which is a pretty hard thing to do imo. This obv will change if maradona gets his way and brings Aguero and tevez to Inter, but then again that will just be the Inter of old full of attacking indivuals and no coercision

Juve have some pretty talented youngsters in their squad and id expect them to be hitting their stride in a season or two but whether or not they return to the old heights of before is a different story. This could just be a generation of talented inconsistent players much like Roma in the early 2000's. They could win seria a one year and then never again for another decade

As for Napoli winning the league, it's not impossible and they're in a better position than the likes of Villa here say but it's obviously highly unlikely. I wouldn't be surprised if they got a Champion's League spot this year or next year though. This year they have an extremely easy last 10 games so if they're in a good position they should get it. If they get into the Champion's League they'll definitely be able to keep their young talent and as long as they do that they'll be a top team in 2 or 3 years. Might not be winning the league but could be taking Roma's top 4 place

so unlike your previous statement you think napoli can't win the league next season now?

eZe^ · 13-01-2009 11:07pm

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

The German league is easily in the top 3 leagues in Europe at the moment

I wish I've seen more of it tbh, I could hardly make an informed opinion on the Bundesliga, but I do like the way Hoffenheim have come to the fore. Nice to see things like that happen. Kind of like Deportivo, by christmas last season they looked almost certain to be relegated. Playing some of the worst football I've ever seen from a Liga side, and now even though their style hasn't changed, they are level with Villareal and Atletico, 5 points off 2nd spot.

DSB · 13-01-2009 11:08pm

Trippie wrote: »

I would argue that Milan would still be ranked higher than Inter and Juve when considering europe's best. Out of all the teams who could win the champions league they are the only ones who would be considered for it from Italy. And yes Pato is showing signs of being something truly special and Milan should get the best out of him in the future.

How? They didn't even qualify this year. They're 9 points behind Inter in the league. Inter are streets ahead.

thusspakeblixa · 13-01-2009 11:09pm

If you're going on statistics (performance in Europe)
Spain is the top league according to the UEFA CO-efficient table-
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=64/newsid=584172.html
Germany is 5th, but statistics suck :P

GLaDOS · 13-01-2009 11:13pm

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

If you're going on statistics (performance in Europe)
Spain is the top league according to the UEFA CO-efficient table-
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=64/newsid=584172.html
Germany is 5th, but statistics suck :P

Off topic, but LOI up 5 places, largest increase there unless I missed one

DSB · 13-01-2009 11:13pm

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Off topic, but LOI up 5 places, largest increase there unless I missed one

If only it was sustainable:(:(:(

thusspakeblixa · 13-01-2009 11:13pm

eZe^ wrote: »

I wish I've seen more of it tbh, I could hardly make an informed opinion on the Bundesliga, but I do like the way Hoffenheim have come to the fore. Nice to see things like that happen. Kind of like Deportivo, by christmas last season they looked almost certain to be relegated. Playing some of the worst football I've ever seen from a Liga side, and now even though their style hasn't changed, they are level with Villareal and Atletico, 5 points off 2nd spot.

Hoffenheim remind me of Deportivo aswell.
I do admire their story, even if they are taking some of Stuttgart's glory.
10 years ago they were non-league.
The difference between them and Depor is that Hoffenheim have massive financial backing.
(They just signed Timo Hildebrand- former Stuttgart captain :mad:)
...isn't it a sign of a league's health when teams can reverse their fortunes so quickly though?

DSB · 13-01-2009 11:19pm

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

Hoffenheim remind me of Deportivo aswell.
I do admire their story, even if they are taking some of Stuttgart's glory.
10 years ago they were non-league.
The difference between them and Depor is that Hoffenheim have massive financial backing.
(They just signed Timo Hildebrand- former Stuttgart captain :mad:)
...isn't it a sign of a league's health when teams can reverse their fortunes so quickly though?

It is also quite commonly a sign of a league's weakness. As you'll see this season when Dundalk come in and do well.

Trippie · 13-01-2009 11:34pm

DSB wrote: »

How? They didn't even qualify this year. They're 9 points behind Inter in the league. Inter are streets ahead.

I know they didnt qualify this year and perhaps that relates to my point about Lyon earlier, If Lyon fail to qualify this year I wonder will it set the wheels in motion for another team to dominate year upon year for the next 5 seasons. However when the make it back into the competition next year they will still be the only Italian team capable of winning the champions league. Inter's odds for the competition are massively scewed due to Mourinho and the apparent effect he has on teams so much so that punters have not been able to see past him to the mediocre performances and the averageness of the team.

Ye i fully agree that that inter are streets ahead in the league but thats not because they are a better team its because they are far more consistent and i dont like saying this but they have been luckier than most teams with the refereeing decisions this season. Milan is truly brilliant and astonishly brutal week in week out and when the consistency is acheived i expect them to usurp Inter pretty quickly.

Also with the apparent 100 million sale of Kaka to Milan i think this could have a huge positive effect on the team and Gallaini's comments about Gourcouff the other day seemed to give off the impression that there is going to be changes in the midfield personel next season

jesus_thats_gre · 13-01-2009 11:38pm

La Liga is better overall I think but the top 4 or 5 of the PL is certainly the strongest.

Bubs101 · 13-01-2009 11:45pm

DSB wrote: »

Now I've heard it all. Luca Toni and Klose are better than Tevez and Rooney. Ridiculous.

Luca Toni's league goal record since 2003; 191 games 130 goals.

He's one of Europe's elite strikers, he just bottles on the big International stage which is irrelavant to clubs. I understand that Rooney is important to the way United play but Toni is a much better forward than Rooney

Trippie wrote: »

so unlike your previous statement you think napoli can't win the league next season now?

I think they can but it's obviously unlikely. Think they're the best placed not top 4 team in the big European leagues to do it owing to a generally weak (bar Inter)top 4 in Italy

Trippie · 13-01-2009 11:51pm

Bubs101 wrote: »

I think they can but it's obviously unlikely. Think they're the best placed not top 4 team in the big European leagues to do it owing to a generally weak (bar Inter)top 4 in Italy

I dont think there is a top 4 in Italy anymore as it implies a level at which all 4 teams are on. This is the same in england imo as its a top 2 then the next 2 which is fast becoming a 3 these days

DSB · 13-01-2009 11:57pm

Bubs101 wrote: »

Luca Toni's league goal record since 2003; 191 games 130 goals.

The German and Italian leagues just aren't as impressive as the English. I honestly shudder to think what Wayne Rooney would do to the Bundesliga. Utter destruction.

eZe^ · 13-01-2009 11:59pm

DSB wrote: »

The German and Italian leagues just aren't as impressive as the English. I honestly shudder to think what Wayne Rooney would do to the Bundesliga. Utter destruction.

You mean the Wayne Rooney who is arguably the worst finisher of all the 'top tier' strikers at the moment?

Bubs101 · 14-01-2009 12:00am

Trippie wrote: »

I dont think there is a top 4 in Italy anymore as it implies a level at which all 4 teams are on. This is the same in england imo as its a top 2 then the next 2 which is fast becoming a 3 these days

There's definitely one in England because the top 4 have held the positions for so long bar the one season that had no ramifications but I'd agree that it could disintigrate in Italy this year. Roma need that place financially and don't look like their going to get it. If Fiorentina get it I think it's likely they'll just replace Roma but if Napoli or Genoa get it it could mean the return of 6 sisters (albeit battling for Europe and not the league). Hopefully it'll be Napoli or Genoa to return some power to some of the other traditional footballing regions

redout · 14-01-2009 12:01am

DSB wrote: »

Now I've heard it all. Luca Toni and Klose are better than Tevez and Rooney. Ridiculous.

Just a note on Luca Toni. He boasts a record of about 200 goals in 390 games. He was also the first player to break 30 league goals in Serie A in many years not sure exact amount. His 31 league goals in Serie A was the highest Serie A total for 47 years. He is a winner of the European Golden Boot. He is a class striker no doubt about it. I rate him as one of the best in Europe. I dont think Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barca or Chelsea would mind having him in their team in all fairness.

eZe^ · 14-01-2009 12:03am

redout wrote: »

Just a note on Luca Toni. He boasts a record of about 200 goals in 390 games. He was also the first player to break 30 league goals in Serie A in many years not sure exact amount. His 31 league goals in Serie A was the highest Serie A total for 47 years. He is a winner of the European Golden Boot. He is a class striker no doubt about it. I rate him as one of the best in Europe. I dont think Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barca or Chelsea would mind having him in their team in all fairness.

I can also hand on my heart say I wouldn't really want Rooney or Tevez at the club I support, whereas I would like Toni.

Bubs101 · 14-01-2009 12:03am

DSB wrote: »

The German and Italian leagues just aren't as impressive as the English. I honestly shudder to think what Wayne Rooney would do to the Bundesliga. Utter destruction.

Why aren't they as impressive. If there's any difference in the goals per game it's minimal and traditionally Italy is considered the hardest to score in. Either way, the fact remains that Toni has a phenomenal goal rate (I'd hazard a guess at the best of that period) and Rooney scores about a goal every 3 games from pretty much the same period. Toni actually scores twice the goals Rooney gets

Bubs101 · 14-01-2009 12:05am

redout wrote: »

Just a note on Luca Toni. He boasts a record of about 200 goals in 390 games. He was also the first player to break 30 league goals in Serie A in many years not sure exact amount. His 31 league goals in Serie A was the highest Serie A total for 47 years. He is a winner of the European Golden Boot. He is a class striker no doubt about it. I rate him as one of the best in Europe. I dont think Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barca or Chelsea would mind having him in their team in all fairness.

Exactly. Just because most people her have only seen him at his lowest ebb in the World Cup and Euros doesn't mean that he's a bad player. He's the best target man in years

DSB · 14-01-2009 12:06am

redout wrote: »

Just a note on Luca Toni. He boasts a record of about 200 goals in 390 games. He was also the first player to break 30 league goals in Serie A in many years not sure exact amount. His 31 league goals in Serie A was the highest Serie A total for 47 years. He is a winner of the European Golden Boot. He is a class striker no doubt about it. I rate him as one of the best in Europe. I dont think Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barca or Chelsea would mind having him in their team in all fairness.

Me neither, but he is no Rooney, and he is no Tevez, he is no Van Nistelrooy, he is no Eto'o, and he is no Drogba. Serie A is a very poor league in comparison to what the aforementioned play in. If he bangs them in, in the Champions League, or in the Premiership then fair enough. I won't say La Liga because I think that might be a bit unfair to him, as I don't think Spain would suit his style.

redout · 14-01-2009 12:06am

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

If you're going on statistics (performance in Europe)
Spain is the top league according to the UEFA CO-efficient table-
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=64/newsid=584172.html
Germany is 5th, but statistics suck :P

Here, hold up a minute. That page is dated September 2007 brother. Without even checking I presume England has to be top.

DSB · 14-01-2009 12:14am

Bubs101 wrote: »

Why aren't they as impressive. If there's any difference in the goals per game it's minimal and traditionally Italy is considered the hardest to score in. Either way, the fact remains that Toni has a phenomenal goal rate (I'd hazard a guess at the best of that period) and Rooney scores about a goal every 3 games from pretty much the same period. Toni actually scores twice the goals Rooney gets

The problem, with what you're saying about Serie A, is you seem to be promoting the things that made Serie A great, when it was actually a strong league. I would have thought that this years Champions League has shown that Italian teams are actually less difficult to score against.

redout · 14-01-2009 12:16am

DSB wrote: »

Me neither, but he is no Rooney, and he is no Tevez, he is no Van Nistelrooy, he is no Eto'o, and he is no Drogba. .

I know brother. He is Luca Toni !

eZe^ · 14-01-2009 12:18am

I think Luca Toni is a better striker than Drogba, Drogba has never been consistenly good, only one season where he's been phenomenal, and meh all the rest really. Luca Toni's goal scoring record is much more impressive tbh.

Bubs101 · 14-01-2009 12:36am

DSB wrote: »

. I would have thought that this years Champions League has shown that Italian teams are actually less difficult to score against.

In the same way that Toni's World Cup and Euro performances show that he is actually not a good goalscorer? you can't judge everything on 6 performances.

This year anyway there have been 435 goals scored in Serie A compared to 525 in the Premiership with most teams in the Premierhsip having player 3 games more. There's little difference and even if there was Toni's record is so good and he's so consistent that it's impossible to make the case against him. As a Chelsea and Juve fan I'd have him in my teams aheas of all of the forwards in a heartbeat

Warper · 14-01-2009 12:58am

Luca Toni = Peter Crouch

Trippie · 14-01-2009 1:00am

Warper wrote: »

Luca Toni = Peter Crouch

lol, there is quite a bit of retardedness in this thread but if you actually belive this then lol is all i can say.

Edit to say have you not seen what Peter Crouch can do?

Xavi6 · 14-01-2009 4:28am

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

Lahm is the best Right back in the world at the moment

DSB wrote: »

Lahm is most certainly not the best right back in the world, not even close.

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

Lahm can lay RWB or RB equally as well.

Sorry to be a pedant lads, but Lahm is a left back, albeit a right footed one.

Dempsey · 14-01-2009 4:41am

LOL LOL LOL @ Crouch

Where did you get those Trippie?

thusspakeblixa · 14-01-2009 9:56am

redout wrote: »

Here, hold up a minute. That page is dated September 2007 brother. Without even checking I presume England has to be top.

Afaik Spain is still top, could be wrong but I think they award points equally for Champions League and UEFA Cup wins.

thusspakeblixa · 14-01-2009 9:58am

Xavi6 wrote: »

Sorry to be a pedant lads, but Lahm is a left back, albeit a right footed one.

He plays RB for Germany, and has been playing there for Bayern most of this season.
He can play either.

Xavi6 · 14-01-2009 10:08am

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

He plays RB for Germany, and has been playing there for Bayern most of this season.
He can play either.

He plays left back for Germany. Arne Friedrich plays right back (see the latest World Cup qualifiers and Euro 2008 line ups).

Massimo Oddo plays on the right for Bayern with Lahm on the left.

thusspakeblixa · 14-01-2009 10:17am

Xavi6 wrote: »

He plays left back for Germany. Arne Friedrich plays right back (see the latest World Cup qualifiers and Euro 2008 line ups).

Massimo Oddo plays on the right for Bayern with Lahm on the left.

He was a right wing for Germany at some stage. Sure Arne Friedrich barely plays these days.

He can play RB or LB afaik

Xavi6 · 14-01-2009 10:18am

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

He was a right wing for Germany at some stage. Sure Arne Friedrich barely plays these days.

He can play RB or LB afaik

Started the last two qualifiers at right back with Lahm on the left.

delija_sever029 · 14-01-2009 11:10am

Definitly Premier league for me,without comptetition,after it theres La liga and german Bundesliga,thats all i watch over tv

Warper · 14-01-2009 1:24pm

Trippie wrote: »

lol, there is quite a bit of retardedness in this thread but if you actually belive this then lol is all i can say.

Edit to say have you not seen what Peter Crouch can do?

Theres is a lot of retardness in your use of the English language - next time actually use real words. There isnt much difference between Luca Toni and Peter Crouch. My comment was not a swipe at Toni or Crouch as both are proven goalscorers and both have multiple caps for their countries. so lol away

Bubs101 · 14-01-2009 2:17pm

Warper wrote: »

. There isnt much difference between Luca Toni and Peter Crouch. My comment was not a swipe at Toni or Crouch as both are proven goalscorers and both have multiple caps for their countries. so lol away

Yes there is, one is a decent player while the other is the best goalscorer in Europe and an Italian cap is worth a lot more than an English one these days

redout · 14-01-2009 2:47pm

Warper wrote: »

Trippie wrote: »

lol, there is quite a bit of retardedness in this thread but if you actually belive this then lol is all i can say.

Edit to say have you not seen what Peter Crouch can do?

Theres is a lot of retardness in your use of the English language - next time actually use real words. There isnt much difference between Luca Toni and Peter Crouch. My comment was not a swipe at Toni or Crouch as both are proven goalscorers and both have multiple caps for their countries. so lol away

Toni 200 goals in 390 games.

Crouch 112 goals in 335 games.

I dont see how they compare. Toni has an average of more than 1 every 2 games whereas Crouch has an average of 1 in 3.

Toni is obviously more lethal than Crouch and the stats prove it in fairness.

PHB · 14-01-2009 3:36pm

I think everyone agrees the top 4 in England is just better than everyone elses top 4.
But I really don't buy into the whole, other leagues lower teams are better. Personally, I think the reason Barca and Madrid don't get as high points tallies as United and Chelsea do is simply because their defence is nowhere near as good. That's also why they've stumbled in the CL in the past. United's attack imo is as good as Barcas, but the real difference is defence. Same true of Chelsea and Madrid.

Mr Alan · 14-01-2009 3:47pm

PHB wrote: »

United's attack imo is as good as Barcas.

Agree with everthing you said apart from the above, Utds attack has been quite poor since the start of the season. Barca, on the other hand, have been absolutely sensational.

Best League in Europe

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