Any Gay heroes / heroines these days

DarkJager

GothPunk wrote: »

So a gay man is incapable of commiting violent acts against another person now? Perhaps playing as a woman (who could just as easily be "kissing fellas in a pub") is equally 'unbelievable' in an action game? Because we all know Lara Croft, Faith and Alyx Vance should be at home making you a sammich?

You have a lot of growing up to do.

I have growing up to do? I think not. Thats my opinion on it plain and simple. Sorry if I offended your politically correct views :rolleyes:

FYI, I never played Tomb Raider, Faith wasn't really an ass kicker, and Alyx Vance required rescuing more times than not


EDIT: And I didn't say a gay man is incapable of violence, I just wouldn't want to be playing as one in a violent game because I am not interested in that.

Nevyn

DarkJager wrote: »

EDIT: And I didn't say a gay man is incapable of violence, I just wouldn't want to be playing as one in a violent game because I am not interested in that.

If that is your personal gaming preference then fair enough
but would it bother you if there options for other people to do so in those games ?

You really would be put off playing a game if the main char was gay or female ?
So you weren't intresting in playing deus ex 2 then ?

DarkJager

Thaedydal wrote: »

If that is your personal gaming preference then fair enough
but would it bother you if there options for other people to do so in those games ?

You really would be put off playing a game if the main char was gay or female ?
So you weren't intresting in playing deus ex 2 then ?

Thats what I'm saying. I personally wouldn't have any interest in playing it, but if there are people who would enjoy that sort of thing, then why stop them? Just not my cup of tea I'm afraid.

As for the main character being gay or female, I will try to explain this. As a man, when I watch action movies for example, I want to see a tough guy kicking ass with attitude - simply because its mindless brawny action for the sake of it. I feel the same when I play an action game - I just can't connect with a female character being this action hero badass, its just not the way I enjoy the experience.

As for Deus Ex 2, I don't remember anything about the lead character in that being gay???

Nevyn

DarkJager wrote: »

Thats what I'm saying. I personally wouldn't have any interest in playing it, but if there are people who would enjoy that sort of thing, then why stop them? Just not my cup of tea I'm afraid.

As for the main character being gay or female, I will try to explain this. As a man, when I watch action movies for example, I want to see a tough guy kicking ass with attitude - simply because its mindless brawny action for the sake of it. I feel the same when I play an action game - I just can't connect with a female character being this action hero badass, its just not the way I enjoy the experience.

Certainly personally given the option I will pick a female char to play but
if I was put off and didn't play games that had male main chars then
I would be left with a very very small selection of game to choose from.

Personally storyline and game play will win out over gender choice never mind
sexual gender preference but it is nice to have the option.

Sometimes given historical context it just doesn't make sense to have a female option I understand that, ie Cod but in the likes of BF 2142 I don't see any argument not to have one. Hell the original Unreal had that option.

GothPunk

DarkJager wrote: »

EDIT: And I didn't say a gay man is incapable of violence, I just wouldn't want to be playing as one in a violent game because I am not interested in that.

That's not what you said.

DarkJager wrote: »

I personally don't think I would ever play a game where your character was gay, it just isn't right in terms of context. How are you supposed to believe in or relate to an action character that's off kissing fellas in a pub one minute, then shooting his way through the bad guys the next? It would probably be tolerable in games that aren't story focused (e.g racing games where you could fly around the place in your ford ka without really taking any notice of the character thats driving it) but anything that requires a bit of violence is definitely not territory for that sort of thing.

If you don't want to play as a gay character, fair enough, I wasn't suggesting you should or have to. My issue is with the fact you state that's it's not right 'in terms of context' which suggests that there is some difference in seeing a man kill baddies and get the girl in the end, and kill baddies and get the guy in the end. What's the difference?

"terms of context" "Anything that requires a bit of violence is definitely not territory for that sort of thing" - I doubt I'm alone in thinking that statement comes across like you think a gay character couldn't kick ass. For that, yes I do think you have some growing up to do, I don't understand why it should matter. It implies you have a particular stereotype in mind when you consider a gay or female character ("I just can't connect with a female character being this action hero badass.") If you didn't want to play because you don't want to look at two guys kissing or something like that, fair enough, I completely understand. But finding it unbelieveable?

tman

DarkJager wrote: »

As for Deus Ex 2, I don't remember anything about the lead character in that being gay???

I think she meant the game itself was a big pile of gay. Either that or you could play as a woman if you so wished...

GothPunk

tman wrote: »

I think she meant the game itself was a big pile of gay. Either that or you could play as a woman if you so wished...

There's a part in the game where you have to find the gay Cultural Minister a man. There's also a part in a nightclub where an NPC comes on to you if you're a man (and makes an objective easier to accomplish if you play along) but he doesn't help you if you're a female character.

pixelburp

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Oh and on a final note. No, Ash is straight, so you can't score her as Female Shepard.

Hmmm, fair enough; I didn't pursue any romance in my own play throughs, got my facts muddled

DarkJager wrote: »

I personally don't think I would ever play a game where your character was gay, it just isn't right in terms of context. How are you supposed to believe in or relate to an action character that's off kissing fellas in a pub one minute, then shooting his way through the bad guys the next? It would probably be tolerable in games that aren't story focused (e.g racing games where you could fly around the place in your ford ka without really taking any notice of the character thats driving it) but anything that requires a bit of violence is definitely not territory for that sort of thing.

As has already been mentioned, I got to say that's a fairly narrow view, particularly as it boils down to "gay men can't be bad asses & should just be the camp sidekicks". You may have a point in that romantic subplots (sexual orientation aside) can be fairly contrived in a gung-ho game, but it also implies that a gay / female character outside of gaming's standard archetypes is a personal affront to your sensibilities.

seraphimvc

DarkJager wrote: »

I personally don't think I would ever play a game where your character was gay, it just isn't right in terms of context. How are you supposed to believe in or relate to an action character that's off kissing fellas in a pub one minute, then shooting his way through the bad guys the next? It would probably be tolerable in games that aren't story focused (e.g racing games where you could fly around the place in your ford ka without really taking any notice of the character thats driving it) but anything that requires a bit of violence is definitely not territory for that sort of thing.

lol never think about that but i like the idea :

Yes,gay men can be violence too and handing a huge cannon to blast off a super giant boss but, No way i am playing a game has a gay protagonist goes kick some male/female a**es and then the ending hugging a dude in his arms..............

i'll stop here then

seriously i would like to see what is gonna happen to a game like what i said above comes out

noodler wrote: »

Zell wasn't gay, he had a thing for a bird in the garden library.He was just an idiot.

EDIT: He did like hot dogs more than any straight man should though.

was wondering what you are on about and lol when did i mention Zell in FF8 now...

afaik there is nothing wrong with FF from the 90s until recently we found out the princess in FF12 is secretly having an affair with Balthier since Vaan always has a poor performance,in combat

Maximilian

Apparently the practice of "closet camping" is gay, when done in a hospital in close proximity to an elevator.

Also, if anywhere up to 4 people physically break down a door into a warehouse, that is extremely gay or "uber ghey" as it is commonly known.

Jack Sheehan

Fable and Fable 2 are the only ones I can think of. Theres even a quest in Fable 2 where you have to find a boyfriend for some farmer dude.

An Sionnach Rua

Most people who play games are straight, judging by the fact that most people in general are straight. How would most people react to playing as a gay character?

pixelburp

An Sionnach Rua wrote: »

Most people who play games are straight, judging by the fact that most people in general are straight. How would most people react to playing as a gay character?

Despite generally having a low opinion of "people" (tm), I don't think most gamers would care all that much so long as it was tastefully done & the actual game was any good, which in the end is the main concern for any gamer really, not what the main character's sexual preferences are. There would still be the guaranteed shrill outcries of net-kiddies of course.

jill_valentine

Oh you boys...

Straight girls play as straight male characters all the time. Doesn't hamper our enjoyment of the games, I promise.

EDIT: Except, for some reason, in Call of Duty. I'd like to be a girl in Call of Duty.

Ostrom

George Stobbart could easily have been gay

Retr0gamer

jill_valentine wrote: »

EDIT: Except, for some reason, in Call of Duty. I'd like to be a girl in Call of Duty.

No females allowed on the frontlines in the Geneva convention so having them in the thick of combat would be unrealistic. They do have female marines in Halo although it's a bit pants. Maybe Valkyria Chronicles? It's 50:50 male:female and the main female characters are very strong and well written. Doesn't play like CoD though.

elekid

An Sionnach Rua wrote: »

Most people who play games are straight, judging by the fact that most people in general are straight. How would most people react to playing as a gay character?

I don't think most gay guys or straight girls have any trouble playing as/relating to straight male characters in games. I certainly don't. There is far more to a person than just their sexual preference and while it would be nice to play as more characters with the same sexuality as me, not being able to do that doesn't dampen my enjoyment of a good game or make me feel disconnected from the characters in question. I find it a bit odd that a character being gay rather than straight would have that effect for some people

jill_valentine

In the Middle East especially, the Female/ Frontline convention has become functionally obsolete and practically unworkable. There are female soldiers firing at dudes and being fired upon already. I don't think it's a huge leap to have a couple of female character models available for the multiplayer game, which is the only time it bugs me, really.

Ah, that's the difference: in a single player, there's a plot I'm supposed to be immersed in and a character I'm supposed to be playing. I don't care if it's male, female or even Ginger. It doesn't entirely represent me, I'm not being me, I'm being them. So their sexuality doesn't really pose a problem any more than their American accents or whatever. It's just part of the character.

Anyway, Modern Warfare is set slightly in the future. It wouldn't be like introducing battledragons or sorcery or something.

mawk

i dont suppose youve played army of two then?

you can at any time you like, pat your friend on the butt to tell him he is doing a great job.

GothPunk

elekid wrote: »

I don't think most gay guys or straight girls have any trouble playing as/relating to straight male characters in games. I certainly don't. There is far more to a person than just their sexual preference and while it would be nice to play as more characters with the same sexuality as me, not being able to do that doesn't dampen my enjoyment of a good game or make me feel disconnected from the characters in question. I find it a bit odd that a character being gay rather than straight would have that effect for some people

Quoted for truth.

Most people who play games are not aliens, space-marines, robots, italian plumbers, small insectivores, nuclear physicists or mutants. However, that does not stop people enjoying playing games as these characters and even relating and empathising with them. Why a character being gay (or shock horror, female!) should be any different is beyond me.

NunianVonFuch

Maybe if they make a game out of Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and let you play as Gay Perry? He's probably the best example of a gay action hero in any medium I can think of.

Also a lot of games don't go into the sexuality of the character on purpose so you can fan-fiction all you want on either side of the fence.

DeVore

anyone remember the "outcry" over the lesbian "sex scene" in Mass Effect? (and here I use the term "sex-scene" quite.... wrongly).

And that was *lesbian* sex, which, isnt even... you know... proper gay! * :rolleyes:

DeV.
I hope I dont have to explain that comment

Jack Sheehan

NunianVonFuch wrote: »

Maybe if they make a game out of Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and let you play as Gay Perry? He's probably the best example of a gay action hero in any medium I can think of.

Also a lot of games don't go into the sexuality of the character on purpose so you can fan-fiction all you want on either side of the fence.

Omar from the Wire? There was a gay action hero if I ever saw one.

DarkJager

I'm not saying "gays can't be action heroes", I just can't see why a game would even contemplate it unless it was a huge factor in the story (at which point you need to get cutscenes and thats where it starts sliding). If a game was to have a gay main character just to stir controversy (or however you see it), or just to force its PC overtone or message into the face of the player, then it can **** right off to be honest.

As a gamer however, I would genuinely be interested in playing any game that could handle such subject matter in a tasteful & innnovative fashion (without resorting to cutscenes that would make your toenails curl). As for action/fps games, the story would really have to be aaa+ and have a genuine reason for the character being gay or I really couldn't see myself even renting it.

Cunny-Funt

It wouldn't be easy to pull off that's for sure. RPGs would be the only logical place for it to happen currently.

Because they are generally the only games with relationships in them.

You'd have to start seeing it in hollywood 1st tbh. Sure there was broke back mountain, but we're not even seeing that much..if any... gay romantic comedies ( where the main characters are gay)

Never mind gay action movies.

It all comes down to the general fact that (I'm sorry to say this gay guys) but straight blokes just simply don't have any interest in watching men having romantic relations with each other.

As **** as that may sound its not homophobia, its just at least when forced into watching relationship movies with straight couples we get a hot chick to look at

This is why I think game companies would be worried about sales if they made such a game. But I don't think most people would have any issues having a gay main character in a game apart from the relationship aspect at all.

But we'd see this is hollywood 1st before in a game I reckon.

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

Omar from the Wire? There was a gay action hero if I ever saw one.

I already brought him up in this thread lol.

Deffo one of the best characters ever! The gay scenes with Omar for example, were very well done, tasteful and well acted. Still did not make enjoyable viewing though as a straight guy but wouldnt have any issue with the scenes being there either. I'd be annoyed if they got cut for example.

GothPunk

DarkJager wrote: »

I'm not saying "gays can't be action heroes", I just can't see why a game would even contemplate it unless it was a huge factor in the story (at which point you need to get cutscenes and thats where it starts sliding). If a game was to have a gay main character just to stir controversy (or however you see it), or just to force its PC overtone or message into the face of the player, then it can **** right off to be honest.

I agree, I'm not really interested in playing an action game with a large romantic side plot (gay or straight), unless it was done well. Love stories with strong relationships are better suited to RPGs really - if only because they have the time to make you care about the characters. You also bring up a good point - if someone did make an action game that had a gay character and their gay relationship only played a small part in the game (bascially what I would like and think could work well) you know a load of people would just say they had a gay character in the game to court controversy.

What are PC overtones anyway? Isn't that just some kind of buzzword that doesn't really mean anything? I mean I don't want a gay character in a game because I'm on some gay rights crusade, I would just like to see a gay/bi character in an action game because I'm bi and I like playing action games, it would be something that I would enjoy.

DarkJager wrote: »

As a gamer however, I would genuinely be interested in playing any game that could handle such subject matter in a tasteful & innnovative fashion (without resorting to cutscenes that would make your toenails curl). As for action/fps games, the story would really have to be aaa+ and have a genuine reason for the character being gay or I really couldn't see myself even renting it.

See this is where I don't really understand where you're coming from. Why does there need to be a reason for their gayness? I imagine, like me, a lot of gay/bi people would like to see a hero or heroine that just happened to be gay. Perhaps that sounds silly but think about it - we have female heroes, black heroes, asian heroines, why not a gay one? It's not like just because Faith in Mirror's Edge was Asian that suddenly it had to change the game. She's just a character that happens to be Asian. See what I mean? Obviously how you introduce the idea that the character is gay would work a bit differently though as it's nowhere near as obvious.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

It all comes down to the general fact that (I'm sorry to say this gay guys) but straight blokes just simply don't have any interest in watching men having romantic relations with each other.

As **** as that may sound its not homophobia, its just at least when forced into watching relationship movies with straight couples we get a hot chick to look at

Unless it's The Matrix Reloaded (*my eyes!* Most painful sex scene ever.) I doubt many people, gay or straight, would want to watch any sort of a love scene in a game - hell Hollywood can't get it right most of the time. I would like to think that most gay people would accept that many people would feel uncomfortable watching a gay male cut scene (but would most likely applaud a gay female cut scene :pac:) and that this is nothing to do with homophobia really.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

But I don't think most people would have any issues having a gay main character in a game apart from the relationship aspect at all.

That's what I think as well and maybe even people who would have a bit of an issue with it would play the game anyway if it was a really good game. Seeing as most discussions I've heard about this topic centre on gay people just wanting a 'character who happens to be gay' in a game means that everyone could be happy - no awkward cutscenes for everybody

Cunny-Funt

GothPunk wrote: »

What are PC overtones anyway? Isn't that just some kind of buzzword that doesn't really mean anything? I mean I don't want a gay character in a game because I'm on some gay rights crusade, I would just like to see a gay/bi character in an action game because I'm bi and I like playing action games

Yeah I wouldn't see it as being 'PC' either, I'd just see it as them trying something new for a main character.

I don't think game companies are obliged to feature gay characters to be 'politically correct'.

GothPunk wrote: »

. I would like to think that most gay people would accept that many people would feel uncomfortable watching a gay male cut scene (but would most likely applaud a gay female cut scene :pac:) and that this is nothing to do with homophobia really.

Thank ****!! I was well worried that that would be taken the wrong way , as there was a thread in AH before about something like that, and it got really heated. A lot of gay and (I suppose overly PC) straight people were calling other people homophobes for saying they would find watching two men getting down and dirty uncomfortable.

GothPunk wrote: »

we have female heroes, black heroes, asian heroines, why not a gay one? It's not like just because Faith in Mirror's Edge was Asian that suddenly it had to change the game. She's just a character that happens to be Asian. See what I mean? Obviously how you introduce the idea that the character is gay would work a bit differently though as it's nowhere near as obvious.

Yeah I know what you mean but here is where we touch on the issue. Currently I just can't see how they can do that without bringing in the relationship aspect too. Or being stereotypical (As right now the only way I can think of to introduce a character as gay the same way Faith is introduced as asian ...would be to have the gay guy dressed like someone from the village people and speak with a lisp or something - which would be retarded lol)

So I dunno if you have any ideas yourself on how they would actually pull it off in a way that wasn't retarded or brought in relationships into the game?

Only thing I can think of is the RPG style element where at the start you simply select your characters gender and sexual orientation, even though there would be no actual relationships in it.

GothPunk

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Thank ****!! I was well worried that that would be taken the wrong way , as there was a thread in AH before about something like that, and it got really heated. A lot of gay and (I suppose overly PC) straight people were calling other people homophobes for saying they would find watching two men getting down and dirty uncomfortable.

The way I see it is this: Replace the two men or women in the sex scene with two people you find unattractive - is it wrong to be uncomfortable watching that? If you're uncomfortable just because you don't find men or women sexually attractive then I don't see how that makes you homophobic. If you realise that some people like to watch what makes you uncomfortable and don't try to ban it all the better.

Hell if developers would make all cut scenes skip-able then there wouldn't be a problem!

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Yeah I know what you mean but here is where we touch on the issue. Currently I just can't see how they can do that without bringing in the relationship aspect too. Or being stereotypical (As right now the only way I can think of to introduce a character as gay the same way Faith is introduced as asian ...would be to have the gay guy dressed like someone from the village people and speak with a lisp or something - which would be retarded lol)

So I dunno if you have any ideas yourself on how they would actually pull it off in a way that wasn't retarded or brought in relationships into the game?

I guess it could appear in some dialogue, like 'My girlfriend/boyfriend will kill me for missing XYZ...' or even a plot point where your girlfriend/boyfriend was kidnapped or killed or something like that. Could we have a game with a gay love interest with kind of hints of sexual tension or is that taking it too far? I bet if they made a tasteful game with a gay female protagonist it'd sell very well!

Either that or a part where someone comes on to our dashing hero/heroine and they say 'Sorry lads/ladies, I'm gay'. I even think something that just has a homoerotic subtext could work very well, like 'Top Gun', heh heh.

elekid

As mentioned above Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is a good example of this. Perry is introduced as gay and his sexuality is used a couple of times as a plot point but beyond that his character is pretty tough and there is no romantic sub-plot involving him. It's a brilliant example of how a character can be gay without it being forced, overly-pc, stereotypical or purely based on romance.

Of course not everyone would be comfortable watching gay sex scenes (wouldn't particularly care to see gay female scenes myself) but who wants to see sex in games anyway? A decent romance, straight or gay, can be done with much more subtlety than that. Not that most gamers even want romance in their games which proves the point that in the end this comes down to what the majority of the target audience want and what developers are/aren't willing to risk doing in their games.

Heh, I do like the homoerotic subtext idea, in fact many games have plenty of unintentionally hilarious examples of it already

elekid

GothPunk wrote: »

I even think something that just has a homoerotic subtext could work very well, like 'Top Gun', heh heh.

Examples of intentional and unintentional homoeroticism in games, male and female, here :P

(May be spoilers)