Cyclist hit on Harold's Cross Road, Dublin

kenmc

Caroline_ie wrote: »

I think there a diference to be made between 'cyclists' and people who 'use a bike to walk faster'. This has been outlined many times on the forums. Most of the people with no lights no helmets, cycling on footpaths etc, don't even call themselves 'cyclists'. I don't think there is a need to start that debate again.

Spot on. Just cos you own a football does not make you a footballer. Same with bikes.

uberwolf

kenmc wrote: »

Spot on. Just cos you own a football does not make you a footballer. Same with bikes.

folks, stay on topic.

Hungrycol

Uberwolf, perhaps make this a sticky to remind ourselves of how vulnerable we are on the road.

Be safe people.

flickerx

kenmc wrote: »

Spot on. Just cos you own a football does not make you a footballer. Same with bikes.

Its a bit depressing that people come out with this on the same day a cyclist (yes, he was on a bike, therefore he was a cyclist) has been killed. Having been completely obedient of the law etc etc I was nearly killed four months ago and I wouldnt be too happy if people started coming out with this sort of thing on the internet about my accident. OK so everyone out there on a bike is not an angel (I think we've had this discussion numerous times before) or as well clued in on road awareness as us internet savvy forum posters;

but if someone is killed I think it doesnt take much effort to stop with the blame game, and just express a bit of sympathy to their friends and/or family with a simple gesture like the white bike or flowers. I dont think that would be too much to ask from an online cycling community who meet up regularly enough in the real world - or is this forum just about racing and getting the latest expensive gear?

niceonetom

it's a terrible thing. my condolence go out to those he left behind. we are playing for keeps out there, aren't we. be careful folks.

flickerx wrote: »

Its a bit depressing that people come out with this on the same day a cyclist (yes, he was on a bike, therefore he was a cyclist) has been killed. Having been completely obedient of the law etc etc I was nearly killed four months ago and I wouldnt be too happy if people started coming out with this sort of thing on the internet about my accident. OK so everyone out there on a bike is not an angel (I think we've had this discussion numerous times before) or as well clued in on road awareness as us internet savvy forum posters;

but if someone is killed I think it doesnt take much effort to stop with the blame game, and just express a bit of sympathy to their friends and/or family with a simple gesture like the white bike or flowers. I dont think that would be too much to ask from an online cycling community who meet up regularly enough in the real world - or is this forum just about racing and getting the latest expensive gear?

i think you have misunderstood the comments you are referencing here. re-read the thread. no one has blamed anyone. no one has expressed anything other than sympathy with the cyclist who lost his life this morning, and sympathy those he has left behind. the comments were made in response to this comment:

jdscrubs wrote:

Has anyone else noticed the amount of cyclists who cycle at nightime who do not wear a helmet, have lights or any reflective gear. Its shocking the amount

which was (no offence jdscrubs) irrelevant and probably should have been ignored here imo. flickerx, if you want to foster solidarity among cyclists maybe you shouldn't be so quick to take offence at innocuous comments?

flickerx

niceonetom wrote: »

if you want to foster solidarity among cyclists maybe you shouldn't be so quick to take offence at innocuous comments?

OK point taken. I do get upset/annoyed though at people responding with such comments like this, when someone's just been killed in commuter traffic, not even in the ground yet. Especially the ones saying/agreeing with "not all people with bikes are cyclists" - what does this mean exactly? Are people just being semantic pedants? At what point does one become a "Cyclist" as opposed to just a... cyclist?

Húrin

I pray that God may use us to make things better for the man's family and cycle safety in Dublin in some way.

I agree with putting a ghost bike there. I have an old mountain bike and some white spray paint. I would be willing to donate said bike as a ghost bike at the accident spot.

Illkillya

I used to cycle that stretch to work too... it is very dangerous around the bridge alright.

trellheim

RIP

DirkVoodoo

Húrin wrote: »

I pray that God may use us to make things better for the man's family and cycle safety in Dublin in some way.

I agree with putting a ghost bike there. I have an old mountain bike and some white spray paint. I would be willing to donate said bike as a ghost bike at the accident spot.

Sounds like an idea then. If you need any help or anything let me know!

buffalo

uberwolf wrote: »

it's your worst nightmare as a cyclist.
http://newsfeed.tcm.ie/media/images/b/bikedeath.jpg

Looking at that, I feel ill. There was some flowers when I passed this evening, might leave some myself in the morning. A sad day indeed.

mmclo

Maybe the bike (motorbike?) shop might assist with maintenance and oversight of a ghost bike?

Húrin

mmclo wrote: »

Maybe the bike (motorbike?) shop might assist with maintenance and oversight of a ghost bike?

Perhaps. We should let the city council know about it because otherwise they will inevitably chop it off and bin it after a couple of months as a piece of litter.

dubmess

Aloha. Graham from the Dublin Messengers here. I've been following this story all day, although not on this thread.

I think trying to figure out how this happened is by and large irrelevant, the fact is that someone is dead.

I've lived and worked in NYC and been part of many ghost bike rides while I was there. They are a beautiful and lasting tribute and reminder.

Independent of this forum I was discussing with other messnengers about the idea of placing a ghost bike at the junction. We, as I'm sure many of you do, have many contacts in bike shops throughut Dublin City who, I think, would be happy to give donor scrap bikes, locks etc. to this idea. I think to do it anonymously is also a good idea. Talking to the guy who runs the bike shop there would be a good step, he's been there for God know's how long. I live quite close to this shop so would be quite happy to have a chat to him about it tomorrow and get the ghost bike up and running over the weekend.

I don't want to clash with anyone on here though so if others are serious about this, pm me and let me know so we can make this a collaborative effort and keep it going throughout the year.

Graham

charlietangodel

This has me heartbroken.

The GhostBike method is another stark method of highlighting cycle safety.

All we need is an old bike, devoid of its cables, chain and pedals and then give it a quick dash of white paint.
The only real expense is a sturdy U lock so that the bike can't be gotten rid of easily. The idea is that it stays there!

The poor guy.

Hungrycol

Too morbid to paint the victims bike (what's left) white and use it as the ghost bike?

The picture in this mornings Metro's stomach turning.

On a practical issue I think heavy duty zip ties would be fine instead of a lock.

Caroline_ie

Hi - While i think it is a good idea to have a ghost bike on the spot, I am 100% sure it will be beaten up and kicked by passing sc*mbags, even stripped to a minimum.:(

kenmc

Is there anyway to hang it from something? Would the bike shop owner allow it to be hung from his wall?

Knifey_Spooney

Caroline_ie wrote: »

Hi - While i think it is a good idea to have a ghost bike on the spot, I am 100% sure it will be beaten up and kicked by passing sc*mbags, even stripped to a minimum.:(

It is true, however with it painted white, stripped of everything useful including tyres it'd last a while, plus if the plaque is a visible stencil people tend to have some respect.

Even in NYC where if you lock any supermarket bike to a pole it'll be gone in an hour or so they tend to last surprisingly long times.

That said the dublin scumbag is a rare breed of vulture with no respect....

Ghost Rider

This might actually make it more poignant, as long as it remains in place.

By the way, ghost bikes are no substitute for the taking of appropriate action by the authorities to ensure a similar accident doesn't happen again (in cases where such action is relevant). But they are an inspired idea and would make a poignant, pointed tribute to a lost life.

Caroline_ie wrote: »

Hi - While i think it is a good idea to have a ghost bike on the spot, I am 100% sure it will be beaten up and kicked by passing sc*mbags, even stripped to a minimum.:(

Knifey_Spooney

kenmc wrote: »

Is there anyway to hang it from something? Would the bike shop owner allow it to be hung from his wall?

He probably would you know, however would it not be better to have it visible on that junction?. Its chaos at the best of times and ridiculous in rush hour traffic, I've actually dismounted and walked through it before.

If it and the plaque can be seen by drivers it could well make them pay a bit more attention there and possibly save someone else from a run in.

Howitzer

Húrin wrote: »

I pray that God may use us to make things better for the man's family and cycle safety in Dublin in some way.

I agree with putting a ghost bike there. I have an old mountain bike and some white spray paint. I would be willing to donate said bike as a ghost bike at the accident spot.

spray / stencil a url on the bike crossbar explaining the movement?
I'd be willing to donate my time to creating a web page for this.
Any hosting companies watching feel this is worthy to donate a url to?
ghostbikes.ie? ghostbikesireland.com?

Mr. Presentable

Ghost Rider wrote: »

This might actually make it more poignant, as long as it remains in place.

By the way, ghost bikes are no substitute for the taking of appropriate action by the authorities to ensure a similar accident doesn't happen again (in cases where such action is relevant). But they are an inspired idea and would make a poignant, pointed tribute to a lost life.

Trouble is, if the "eye-witness account" cited is correct then the authorities cannot prevent it happening again short of rounding up all the cyclists and training them not to break a red.

I'm sorry for the guy's family and moreso for the truck driver who apparently did nothing wrong.

Mr. Presentable

Knifey_Spooney wrote: »

He probably would you know, however would it not be better to have it visible on that junction?. Its chaos at the best of times and ridiculous in rush hour traffic, I've actually dismounted and walked through it before.

If it and the plaque can be seen by drivers it could well make them pay a bit more attention there and possibly save someone else from a run in.

I'm not sure this is a good idea. "I'm sorry Guard, I was looking at that plaque and bike when he came across me"

cmyk

Knifey_Spooney wrote: »

He probably would you know, however would it not be better to have it visible on that junction?. Its chaos at the best of times and ridiculous in rush hour traffic, I've actually dismounted and walked through it before.

If it and the plaque can be seen by drivers it could well make them pay a bit more attention there and possibly save someone else from a run in.

Or on the flipside this could have the opposite effect, drivers may focus more on 'what the bike' actually is (being few, if any other ghost bikes in Dublin?), thus another distraction and not looking at the road? I'm not degrading the idea, it would be a nice memorial.

My thoughts are with his family and indeed driver.

Knifey_Spooney

nipplenuts wrote: »

I'm not sure this is a good idea. "I'm sorry Guard, I was looking at that plaque and bike when he came across me"

True enough, and also evilly Ironic enough that it'd probably happen to boot.

It would be the first ghostbike in Dublin AFIAK. Fortunately cyclist fatalities aren't that common here as its a recent enough idea.

charlietangodel

I am also a little concerned about the distraction it would cause to motorists! (If only cyclists were as much of a distraction!)

I am also sure that the bike would be removed within a short while.
But think of the publicity that would ensue!

If even one newspaper picked up on the story, then there's a whole lot of cycle awareness reaching thousands of people.

BeerNut

dubmess wrote: »

I think trying to figure out how this happened is by and large irrelevant, the fact is that someone is dead.

I think the phrase about being doomed to repeat unlearned history has never been more apt.

Ghost Rider wrote: »

ghost bikes are no substitute for the taking of appropriate action by the authorities to ensure a similar accident doesn't happen again (in cases where such action is relevant)

That's what I feel (though also think the ghost bike is a beautiful idea, may we never need to make another). Apparently there's a large Gardaí presence at the junction now, seeking witness statements, I hope.

This junction needs to be made safer. While there will always be those who insist on endangering themselves and others by disobeying the signs and markings, more can be done here and establishing the facts of this tragic case is the first step, IMO.

cmyk

charlietangodel wrote: »

But think of the publicity that would ensue!

If even one newspaper picked up on the story, then there's a whole lot of cycle awareness reaching thousands of people.

True, maybe if the bike were to be positioned at a safer location a little farther down the Harold's Cross road? (I realise that defeats some of its purpose) But considering the lack of visibility is already what makes it a dangerous junction.

Being the first Ghost bike it prob would get some sort of publicity.

Eoin D

If a ghost bike were to be put there it would be good if maybe RIP Mr/Mrs X was stenciled somewhere and then say ghostbike.ie on the downtube or somewhere else?

On Ghostbike.ie there could be statistics, locations of accident blackspots, explanation of the ghostbike etc.

Just a thought to raise awareness