Cyclist hit on Harold's Cross Road, Dublin

markpb

BeerNut wrote: »

I am aware that FrankGrimes's post isn't directly related to this accident, but big trucks in the city centre are part of the wider problem.

From my own experience, most HGV drivers are *excellent*, especially in the city centre. Most people (pedestrians, cyclists and drivers) have no respect for them and no understanding of how many blind spots they have and move about them accordingly.

BeerNut

markpb wrote: »

From my own experience, most HGV drivers are *excellent*, especially in the city centre. Most people (pedestrians, cyclists and drivers) have no respect for them and no understanding of how many blind spots they have and move about them accordingly.

That's not really the point, though. They still kill more cyclists than anything else, probably because of what they are rather than how they're driven. Since the two forms of transport seem, statistically, unable to co-exist safely, it's better to remove the trucks than the bikes from our streets.

Danbo!

markpb wrote: »

From my own experience, most HGV drivers are *excellent*, especially in the city centre. Most people (pedestrians, cyclists and drivers) have no respect for them and no understanding of how many blind spots they have and move about them accordingly.

Unfortunately true. I've seen far too many cyclist sitting on the inside of a truck (trucks passenger side) at traffic lights, completely unaware that it is indicating to turn left, whereas the cyclist intends to go straight.

markpb

The current ban only covers the city centre and immediate suburbs. Big parts of Dublin aren't covered (and won't be) and none of the other cities or large towns are covered. It isn't practical to extend it much further. If people (cyclists in particular) were taught how to move around HGVs, it would be much more rewarding.

Chips Lovell

noblestee wrote: »

Unfortunately true. I've seen far too many cyclist sitting on the inside of a truck (trucks passenger side) at traffic lights, completely unaware that it is indicating to turn left, whereas the cyclist intends to go straight.

Yep, most cyclists don't seem to have a clue how to deal with trucks and buses.

Raam

noblestee wrote: »

Unfortunately true. I've seen far too many cyclist sitting on the inside of a truck (trucks passenger side) at traffic lights, completely unaware that it is indicating to turn left, whereas the cyclist intends to go straight.

When cycling along the grand canal, heading towards that accident spot incidently, I saw a lady cyclist trying to go up the inside of a large truck that was just starting to move off. I told her that it's a very dangerous thing to do and I advised to wait behind it. She said "oh right", so I've no idea if I got through to her or not.

BeerNut

markpb wrote: »

The current ban only covers the city centre and immediate suburbs. Big parts of Dublin aren't covered (and won't be) and none of the other cities or large towns are covered. It isn't practical to extend it much further. If people (cyclists in particular) were taught how to move around HGVs, it would be much more rewarding.

Not sure who that's aimed at, but I agree with all of it. My point was just that fewer HGVs inside the existing cordon during the day will be A Good And Safer Thing™.

ollaetta

Knifey_Spooney wrote: »

Pity there's no street view, the air photos don't do the chaos there any justice.

Try this: http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=swndp1gg99x4&style=o&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=29506838&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

This is the North - South view. Grove Road is to the left of the junction and Parnell Road to the right. You can just make out the motorcycles outside the bike shop in the shade near a lamp post and the AM/PM is just to the south of this.

monument

markpb wrote: »

The current ban only covers the city centre and immediate suburbs. Big parts of Dublin aren't covered (and won't be) and none of the other cities or large towns are covered. It isn't practical to extend it much further. If people (cyclists in particular) were taught how to move around HGVs, it would be much more rewarding.

A few points on that.

The ban does not just benefit cyclists, and even pedestrians. There's also a range of environmental benefits for residents of the city.

A large part of the minor enough recorded increase in cycling in the city compared to what's being recorded in London etc is at least partly being put down to the ban. I think a lot of people would agree that it's more relaxing not to have so many very large trucks around, so I would say there is an element of truth it the link between the recorded increase and the ban.

One or two areas that I cycle in regularly outside the ban hardly ever or never have HGVs in them. If this is caused by a knock on affect of the ban or not is another question. But I think it brings into question that it's not practical to extend it much further.

When there is the odd HGV within the ban area (for what ever reason), and, more so, when I go my famaly house in Ballina which is on the road to the Coca-Cola factory, I'm reminded how -- even with greater levels of trafic, at least we don't have to contend with many HGVs anymore. And I mean that from a somebody who lives, cycles and walks in the city centre. Other moves directed at restricting movements of smaller trucks and cars could have massive meaning for qualty of life for those who live in the city.

EDIT: I don't mean to dismiss your idea of teaching cyclists how to behave in traffic. This needs to be done too. From listing to some cyclists who have not adapted to city cycling to any great level, these come across as some of the worst PR for cycling. But above I'm only defending the ban based on what I've seen.

RedPlanet

ollaetta wrote: »

Try this: http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=swndp1gg99x4&style=o&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=29506838&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

This is the North - South view. Grove Road is to the left of the junction and Parnell Road to the right. You can just make out the motorcycles outside the bike shop in the shade near a lamp post and the AM/PM is just to the south of this.

Nice link.
If you Rotate the view, one click Counter Clockwise, you can see the AMPM shop, it's the last building before the trees.
There is a cycle lane on the road there, though it's very faded.
Have to wonder why the cement truck was driving in it (oops i guess it's the dashed line variety).
You can see that the road narrows at that shop.

ollaetta

Looking at it again, two things the aerial view does not show in perspective are the narrowness of the bridge and how steep the incline to it on both sides is. It is one serious hump and should have been at least widened years ago. Unfortunately, this is not going to happen anytime soon.

BeerNut

ollaetta wrote: »

Looking at it again, two things the aerial view does not show in perspective are the narrowness of the bridge and how steep the incline to it on both sides is.

In north-looking view it does show that ridiculous half-car-lane on the bridge southbound coming up to the lights.

ollaetta wrote: »

It is one serious hump and should have been at least widened years ago. Unfortunately, this is not going to happen anytime soon.

No chance of a compulsory purchase of part of that fuel merchant's yard and those dodgy-looking pubs to widen the whole stretch?

Chris Peak

mmclo wrote: »

Maybe the bike (motorbike?) shop might assist with maintenance and oversight of a ghost bike?

Maybe I'm just too cynical. But, I really can't see why a bike shop would (a) want a memorial like this outside his shop or (b) maintain it.
It's hardly good for business is it?

That said, it is very sad that this guy got killed. I saw a similar accident to this one a few years ago, and I'm still not fully 'over it'.

Hungrycol

Chris Peak wrote: »

Maybe I'm just too cynical. But, I really can't see why a bike shop would (a) want a memorial like this outside his shop or (b) maintain it.

+1

Harolds+

Howitzer wrote: »

Just heard on newstalk that a cyclist was hit on the Harold's Cross road this morning. A truck was invloved.
Sounded serious and the cyclist is in a bad way.
My thoughts and prayers are now with that cyclist.

I just joined this forum tonight. I was deeply disturbed by that mans death because not only am I a cyclist but I live near where he died. I was knocked down THE SAME DAY as that poor man. I was hit in Rathmines by a Priest (WHAT ARE THE CHANCES) and was brought to hospital but have no broken or cracked bones but went into shock last night and I feel very upset since.

Does anyone know where I can talk to somebody. I'm not suicidal but am very upset.

Ghost Rider

Hi there. Sorry to hear you're upset. Your best bet right now is probably to call Samaritans on 1850 60 90 90. And don't worry - you don't have to be suicidal to give them a call.

Harolds+ wrote: »

I just joined this forum tonight. I was deeply disturbed by that mans death because not only am I a cyclist but I live near where he died. I was knocked down THE SAME DAY as that poor man. I was hit in Rathmines by a Priest (WHAT ARE THE CHANCES) and was brought to hospital but have no broken or cracked bones but went into shock last night and I feel very upset since.

Does anyone know where I can talk to somebody. I'm not suicidal but am very upset.

Stephen_C

BeerNut wrote: »

I take it you mean he was turning right from Portobello direction onto the bridge? If so, I've just realised how many times I've seen this nearly happen: vehicle crossing the bridge southbound goes through an amber and by the time it's level with the eager cyclist at the end of Grove Road, the cyclist has a green and is moving off. If either or both aren't very careful about the signals...

TskTsk wrote: »

A cyclist friend of mine saw the accident happen this morning as he was approaching the junction from the same side as the deceased cyclist. Allegedly happened exactly as you described above... the guy saw the crossing traffic lights turn amber, didn't see oncoming traffic and took off before his own traffic light had turned green. Horrible way to go.

Seemed from the last few pages that people think the cyclist was turning left into harolds cross road when in fact he was turning right onto the bridge. The truck must have been going at a fair speed to not stop till the ampm shop.

What a terrible accident, I've definitely found myself taking it a lot easier on the bike since it has happened

buffalo

Harolds+ wrote: »

I just joined this forum tonight. I was deeply disturbed by that mans death because not only am I a cyclist but I live near where he died. I was knocked down THE SAME DAY as that poor man. I was hit in Rathmines by a Priest (WHAT ARE THE CHANCES) and was brought to hospital but have no broken or cracked bones but went into shock last night and I feel very upset since.

Does anyone know where I can talk to somebody. I'm not suicidal but am very upset.

I know what you mean. It being on my commute every day, I felt quite distressed by this man's death. Feel free to PM me if you need, or as Ghost Rider said, the Samaritans will always listen at 1850 60 90 90.

I believe all of us will have accidents in our lives, and you have to deal with them in one way or another. If you're angry, vent on the forum, or get in touch with someone who will listen.

Dandelion6

Speaking of big trucks in the city centre. The other day I was cycling down Exchequer Street toward Grafton Street. At the corner with St Andrews Street there was a Guinness truck making a delivery, it was parked in such a way as to completely obscure the junction from the view of anyone coming from my direction - you literally couldn't see that there was another road crossing Exchequer Street from the left, and certainly any vehicles approaching on that road couldn't see you. Although traffic on Exchequer Street has the right of way I know from experience that vehicles from St Andrews Street often tend to zip through the intersection so I stopped and poked my head around the front of the Guinness truck to see if anything was coming. Good thing I did too as otherwise I would have been in the same situation as our unfortunate Chinese friend. But the thing is, the way the Guinness truck was parked you actually could not see that there was even a junction there and someone not familiar with the road would not even have realised there was any need for them to exercise caution. I understand these drivers are given very extensive training about careful driving but are they trained at all not to park in ways that create a danger for other road users?

LimitedEdition

Stephen_C wrote: »

Seemed from the last few pages that people think the cyclist was turning left into harolds cross road when in fact he was turning right onto the bridge. The truck must have been going at a fair speed to not stop till the ampm shop.

What a terrible accident, I've definitely found myself taking it a lot easier on the bike since it has happened

It turns out now that this lad lived on Mount Drummond road and came out the short cut between the bookies and the pub, he was heading for his place of work, which is a pub on the Crumlin Road, his boss rang his brother (who also works there) to find out where he was and his brother stated that he had left for work at 10am, the brother then left for the pub to do his shift and passed up by the accident not realising it was his brother that had been killed. You will be all glad to hear that the owners of the pub are doing absolutely everything they can for his family. They even got an interpreter for them and are helping with all the necessary arrangements to get him home.

delta_bravo

Stephen_C wrote: »

Seemed from the last few pages that people think the cyclist was turning left into harolds cross road when in fact he was turning right onto the bridge. The truck must have been going at a fair speed to not stop till the ampm shop.

What a terrible accident, I've definitely found myself taking it a lot easier on the bike since it has happened

You sure? this means that the bike was dragged for about 20 metres then if it went as far as the ampm shop, quite sickening to think of

LimitedEdition

delta_bravo wrote: »

You sure? this means that the bike was dragged for about 20 metres then if it went as far as the ampm shop, quite sickening to think of

yes. well according to someone he worked with he took that route every morning going to work. You wouldnt know, you hear so many stories. There was someone killed many years ago at that junction too, going back about 17 years and i am sure it was a cyclist, although i could be wrong. Even crossing there is deadly dangerous as there is no pedestrian light crossing from offices to shop.

Harolds+

Cheers. I rang them and they told me that I suffered from delayed shock. It was living hell. Me fiancee, family, and friends raced though my mind like a rollercoaster. I can't imagine what the cyclists family or even the Palestinians are going through right now with such a violent end but the shock (in my opinion) is an injury that is almost as bad than the physical pain

I often slag people saying that "sure yer man is so boring that the Samaritans hang up on him". I never knew I had to do it meself ha ha.

Its good to talk!

BostonB

Harolds+ wrote: »

I just joined this forum tonight. I was deeply disturbed by that mans death because not only am I a cyclist but I live near where he died. I was knocked down THE SAME DAY as that poor man. I was hit in Rathmines by a Priest (WHAT ARE THE CHANCES) and was brought to hospital but have no broken or cracked bones but went into shock last night and I feel very upset since.

Does anyone know where I can talk to somebody. I'm not suicidal but am very upset.

Your proabaly suffering from shock. I was knocked off before xmas and you go into shock without realising it. Can last quite a while. I found it worse a few days afterwards. Its a big event and it takes time to get over it. It still plays on my mind and I've still aches and pains from it. This accident/death is on my route too, and it does make you think, its very shocking. Its also got me thinking about my accident aswell.

But I will say, the vast majoirty of cyclists on the canal, break the lights, or move off when they see amber on the other lights, and think nothing of going inside of larges trucks, vans. When you add motor vehicles, also jumping the lights, and going through late. Its only a matter of time before theres an accident. I've only been cycling that route for the last year, and I don't think I've ever seen a Guard at any of those bridges on the canal so theres zero enforcement.

It will make me take it easier in the future and I'll hopefully take a new look at the junctions I go through.

Harolds+

I was hit in 2004 under the luas bridge near Grand Canal by a fella who attempted to overtake me and turn left while I was going straight and he then tried to fob me off when I was on the ground. Anyway, he had a history of driving under the influence of drugs! I was hit again in Ranelagh by a bread van who did the very same as the above. I was hit in Leinster Road in Rathmines on Weds. Its very dark and the priest who hit me must have known God since God was a boy ! They should monitor older drivers too. I never go through a red light. I never rush but you have to think of drivers as fools but at this stage now (and I am only 30) I am thinking of knocking the bike on the head as its getting too dangerous and the Govt doesn't care (even the lesbian party/greens)

blorg

I was knocked off by a car a few years ago and was a bit nervous for a while after getting back on the bike a few months later.

NBar

TskTsk wrote: »

A cyclist friend of mine saw the accident happen this morning as he was approaching the junction from the same side as the deceased cyclist. Allegedly happened exactly as you described above... the guy saw the crossing traffic lights turn amber, didn't see oncoming traffic and took off before his own traffic light had turned green. Horrible way to go.

Any chance this friend of yours could contact the Gardai in Terenure on 01-6666400 asap as they are looking for witnesses to the accident

Cheers

BostonB

It just brings it home that you have to be really careful and assume nothing. When I got knocked off it wasn't my fault. But I wasn't on my usual route and more importantly I assumed the driver was going to do something logical and legal. Instead he did something illlogical and illegal.

On the canal every evening you see drivers turning left cutting right across cyclists.

Amicusfan

You wouldn't happen to know which pub, would you? I sometimes have my lunch in the Gate Pub on that road.

pepsicokeacola

so sad for the guy. credit to the pub.