Am I Mad or Not?

Ta me anseo

Hi all!

After my plans of lots of walking and hiking were completely scuppered last summer (thanks very much Irish weather!) I am getting ready to make up for it this year.

Unfortunately, I work shift and most weekends and the one or two friends who would be interested in coming along don't so it is nigh on impossible to arrange a day out. When we do the weather acts up instead! Most clubs seem to walk summer evenings or weekends and that doesn't really match my schedule either.

So am I mad to be considering heading out on my own? I am really trying to be sensible about the whole thing. I have only walked a little in the Lake District in Cumbria, (a beautiful 4 hour hike around Rydal Water) and otherwise a little around Howth head (including my own 3 1/2 hour loop around the cliffs and back over the summit). In other words, I have little experience, but feel I can happily manage a 4 to 6 hour day at the moment and should be able to handle 8 hours of walking with some practice and experience.

My plan is to start walking on my own on shortish out-and-back or loop routes in Carlingford or Wicklow and build my experience and get an idea of my level of fitness and ability. I have maps and a compass and can use them reasonably well I think. I understand the ideas of using bearings for position and aiming off, etc, etc as well as simple direction finding. I have decent clothing including thermal layers, fleeces and waterproofs, and would intend to have a full compliment of emergency/survival gear with in case of mishap (survival bag, emergency blanket, small first aid kit, whistle, torch, spare phone battery, etc, etc.). I have a route card form with route and times for longer trips which I would leave with the good missus (so she can ensure that the search teams look in the wrong place if I go missing and then finally get together with that young postman!!) and my phone has GPS ability also (works independently from the mobile network). I have even given thought to buying a pair of 5km walkie talkies and leaving one in the car when I set off so that there would be some form of communication available if Vodafone don't serve the top of Slieve Donard!!!

To be honest, most routes I am thinking of at first would be frequently used by others so I would shocked if I slipped and injured myself and wasn't found by someone in a short time but what with Murphys Law and all that. But I would love to attack the Wicklow Way in the summer if I can get plenty of practice in the meantime. In particular I can think of nothing better than heading out on a sunny morning (which I am sure will rapidly turn to freezing fog just as I reach the halfway point of my first leg!) and disappearing into the hills for a few days only to pop back into civilisation on a bus from Ballygowherever.

In other words, I really am aware of the risks of going out alone, but am trying to mitigate as many possibilities as I can!

So am I mad? Or is it possible to achieve a decent level of safety when you are on your own? Does anyone else here go on long treks alone? Or overnight camping either??

BeardyGit

Sounds like you've done a bit of homework anyway. To be honest, you're not alone. There are a great many who take to the hills on their own, and it's not necessarily a dangerous pursuit to do so.

What differs is the likely outcome when something goes wrong, and you're on your own. I'd start out by knocking the mobile phone with built in GPS on the head. If you're in the Wicklow Mountains, it quite likely won't work when you need it most. Next, forget the walkie talkie in the car - It'd never be used, and would most likely not work.

If I were you, I'd do two things:

Complete MS1 & 2 training. It'll give you a chance to meet others who will go walking with you, a chance to have someone else verify your understanding of things, and a chance to pick up on the gaps in your knowledge. You don't have to do the assessment of course, but there's no harm in it either if you really want to validate what you think you know.

Attend a REC first aid course. It's aimed at the more remote environment, and it's the syllabus used by Mountain Rescue teams throughout Ireland, along with instructors, clubs and so on. I'd highly recommend it as something people with a genuine interest in outdoor pursuits should do.

From then on, you're down to safe practices and using the training you've gained to build experience and the ability to judge the risk and likely outcome of a situation in the hills.... Leave the gizmos behind (although a GPS in the rucksack can be handy for double checking your grid ref etc), and rely on solid hillcraft and common sense.

Enjoy your time in the hills - on your own or with others.

Gil

Ta me anseo

Thanks for the reply!

I've just been looking at some MS1 & 2 courses on the MCI website and really should think about doing them. I believe they run over two days mostly. Looks like there are plenty of them available. I'll have to send an email and get more info!!

Also, while looking on the MCI web it looks like MCI membership is a must also...

The GPS thingy is really only in my bag purely as a back up. I see no fun in walking the hills looking at a device which tells you where you are and which way to go with absolutely no input required from you. Using a map and compass ensures you are aware of your surroundings apart from anything else. I just see the GPS as an aid in the event I am standing in the middle of a field or on top of a mountain with no clue as to where I am. Then I'd take out the GPS and cheat for a second before getting back to the map!!

The walkie talkie idea was looking like a non runner anyway I think given the unlikely use and therefore pointless weight and space usage in the backpack! I suppose I was trying to show that I have thought quite a bit about what might go wrong. Of course that doesn't mean I would be prepared if it does go wrong!

Have you or anyone else done the MS courses? What are they like? What do you need to have beforehand?

The first aid course is a great idea. Must add that to the ever growing list!!

doggone

I'd be afraid to walk in the mountains again but it is a health issue. Being met by some French farmer on his quad ordering me off his land which was once a common path would invite a rage my old heart might not handle. Come on walk around our Maginot line and invade our country has become buy land and steal walkways!

irishlostboy

what gil-dub said +1.

on a side note, dont let the weather put you off walking. wind and rain are a very intagril part of ireland. i think people who only go out when the sun is shining never actually see ireland (a bit dramatic i know. lol). just wear good waterproofs, and keep a warm drink handy and you will discover that ireland can be beautiful, not dispite the weather, but because of it.
saftey is of course an issue. in rough weather stick to safe routes you know.
regards walking, why not post up here looking for people to walk with or something? just state when you want to go walking and see if anyone can meet you. that way you meet new people, improve your safety odds, and have a nice walk. just an idea. hope you do get out walking and have a safe and enjoyable time.

Ta me anseo

irishlostboy wrote: »

what gil-dub said +1.

on a side note, dont let the weather put you off walking. wind and rain are a very intagril part of ireland. i think people who only go out when the sun is shining never actually see ireland (a bit dramatic i know. lol). just wear good waterproofs, and keep a warm drink handy and you will discover that ireland can be beautiful, not dispite the weather, but because of it.
saftey is of course an issue. in rough weather stick to safe routes you know.
regards walking, why not post up here looking for people to walk with or something? just state when you want to go walking and see if anyone can meet you. that way you meet new people, improve your safety odds, and have a nice walk. just an idea. hope you do get out walking and have a safe and enjoyable time.

Good point lost lad. I play a lot of Golf and have played in some pretty miserable weather but with the right clothing and a little preparation there is really not much difference from a dry day. I think there is probably an extra level of satisfaction to be gained from planning a walk for a particular day, waking up to rain and wind, and setting off regardless, albeit with some quick replanning of your route. There is certainly beauty to be found in the power of nature whatever it's state.

Regarding the posts here for a walk idea, I'm a bit embarrassed to say I never thought of that!!! At worst I no one responds and I go on my own. At best a bunch get together and have a good day out. Thank you!!

Alun

irishlostboy wrote: »

on a side note, dont let the weather put you off walking. wind and rain are a very intagril part of ireland.

Yes, tell me about it ... I was mad enough to go out on a recce with a friend of mine from the Wayfarers today .. Kippure Bridge, Seefin, Seefingan, Kippure and back to Kippure Bridge. Madness, I tell you, absolute madness (In case you didn't know, weather in Wicklow was appalling today, rained all day, and the wind on top of Kippure was something fierce).

doggone

Decent map and a compass and nothing spectacular. Large waterproof refuse sacks and full change of clothing. Vaseline the feet before you put the socks on and bring spare socks. Try a few small well signposted walks and use the map and compass as you do so. Always expect foul weather since you are in Ireland. Summer fell last year on a Friday and even then only for an afternoon. Always plan a route and leave it with a concerned other who can anticipate a return safe call or if you encounter difficulties people will have a general idea where to find you resting in your bag in the oversized bin liner.

fergalr

You sound like you've considered it sensibly and logically, and made an assessment of the risks.
It's really up to you what level of risk you are prepared to take in the hills. I think the main thing is to think about it thoroughly, take what precautions you can to mitigate the dangers and consider the risk clearly. Once you do that, I generally wouldn't think you're 'mad' as such... ...but some people think going for a 3 hour walk anywhere is mad, so who's to say!

I'd say that an informed and safety conscious solo hillwalker is at much less risk than the many small groups who just wander up the hills without thought or preparation.


As others have said, being on your own can turn what's a minor problem when you're in a group, into a more serious one.


I'd guess that most injuries that stop you moving when you are on your own will also stop you moving if you have a group, and you'll have to contend with the cold and weather in both cases.
What I mean is, if you are in a group of 3 people, most serious lower leg issues (broken ankle, severe sprain, broken leg) that would stop an individual and require rescue are also going to stop the group, as you can't carry someone with 2 people (takes a lot of people to carry someone, or even help someone hobble). So in both situations, you have the a situation where you have to sit down and wait for help, and you have to carry enough gear to be able to survive that wait.

Hence, I would say always make sure to have enough gear, food, and water to stay for an extended period of time, if you are suddenly stopped at any part of your hike. You say you carry a survival bag and emergency blanket - do you mean a thick plastic bag and a foil blanket - would these be enough to keep you warm for a day or two, in crappy weather conditions? I've slept in the orange plastic bags in the hills, and while it's better than being outside them, I wouldn't like to do it for 24 hours with a painful injury. Some combination of goretex survival bag, blizzard bag, and nylon group shelter might be better, and only a bit heavier?

So, that's the first thing to consider - what happens if you are stopped due to an injury - have you the gear to survive until help gets to you?


The next factor I'd think about, is how likely is it that help gets to you within the time you can survive?
If you are in a group of 3 people and incapacitated or can't move, someone can go get help, or go get mobile phone signal. This is definitely a big difference in risk, when walking alone. How much of your walk is in areas with phone reception will probably thus alter the risk equation.

Also worth considering what happens if you lose consciousness due to an injury. If you are on your own, you are in deep trouble. I'd say that in the hills situations of continued unconsciousness, but where having extra partners would make a difference, are fairly rare (as a class of injury). But that's just an estimate I'm making.


So, if you are walking solo, and you are not certain of having phone coverage, not having friends to get help - if you can't move - is a big additional risk.


One thing to mitigate this somewhat, which I haven't seen mentioned here, is that leaving a good description of your route, (written down, otherwise no one will be able to remember properly in the stress of looking for you), with someone, is probably a good thing - decreases area people have to search if bad stuff happens. If nothing else, if you go solo, make sure someone reliable is expecting you back - if you live alone, for example, it wouldn't do for no one to miss you for a day or two, assume you're gone away, etc.
You could also text someone your location and projected next waypoints when you reach major waypoints etc - I know this takes from the wilderness aspect of things, but it might cut down on aspects of risk too - up to you.
You might also consider carrying a strobe light (not heavy) in case you have to attract attention from rescuers.


I may be missing something, but those are, as I see it, the main things to think about, walking alone vs in a group...


Two bits of general hill advice here, but applies doubly when your on your own, because you don't have someone else to second guess you, or discuss things with:

* if you start to feel unsure about things, or if you aren't sure what exactly is going on - deliberately *think* about your situation. Don't just keep going, focusing on the ground underfoot, sort of hoping things turn out ok.

This is so easy to do with navigation, maybe in adverse conditions etc. I'm not saying 'stop and get cold' - people also get into trouble second guessing and stopping when they should just push on - just saying, be self critical, and as soon as you start getting the feeling 'hang on, didn't expect to see this pond' - don't just let yourself think, in the back of your head 'well, i'll probably hit the ridge soon anyway, must be just ahead'; actively think about what just happened, about any bad assumptions you might be making, consider what will happen if you are in fact wrong, and re-assess your plan.


* Don't be afraid to back down if things get too uncomfortable.
You may have said to your mates or whoever, or drove for hours, or trained for days, so you can "climb X solo on saturday" and you've been walking for an hour, but the conditions are getting a little trickier than you'd like, and you think it's a bit too much risk... ...but you really want to get to the top and feel like you don't want to back down, even though backing down is the right thing to do.
I've learned to try to think, "ok, achieving the goal would be good, but backing down, letting it go, because that's the smartest thing to do, is an even bigger achievement" (Maybe it's just me here, but need to do something like this in the hills, and watch it consciously, to make sure I don't get completely focused on getting to the top, no matter what. Doesn't always work 100% ).


I think walking solo those two points really do apply doubly - it's a constant practice of making judgments, to try and stay safe. At least that's my experience of it.

I've been walking alone plenty of times - I always carry a lot of gear and generally do safer things, go out in a more conservative range of weather, move a big slower etc than I would in a group.

Last properly hilly hillwalking thing I did solo was probably climbing mweelrea on a windy day, didn't know the mountain, but felt very comfortable, weather conditions were pretty good. Retrospectively, discovered the most dangerous part was probably the route I took in was probably on the low level approach, for reasons I didn't hear of til after the route - what's it they say, 'its the bullet you don't hear that kills you'?

Also, +1 on a REC first aid course.

Alun

Lots of good advice from fergalr there. Many people think that the Wicklow Mountains, because they aren't that high, aren't dangerous, but just ask Gil_Dub (who's with the Dublin and Wicklow Mountain Rescue Team) what he thinks about that! It doesn't even have to be an injury that causes problems .. just being unprepared for the weather and getting soaking wet and suffering from hypothermia is just as great a risk, or even something as simple as getting stuck up to your thighs in bog on somewhere like the Barnacullian Ridge, for example.

I understand there was a big MRT callout just before Christmas for someone who had broken his ankle while just out on a stroll around Glendalough. He was ill-prepared for the weather too and ended up being treated for hypothermia too, so you don't have to be right out in the wilderness for bad things to happen either.

I generally go out with a group, but have been out on my own a few times, and indeed you have to be ultra-conservative when you're on your own, and don't be afraid to turn back or modify your route if you feel in the least bit uncomfortable with the conditions or your ability to cope with them.

Ta me anseo

Wow fergair! Great stuff altogether! Thanks for that!

I have designed my own Route Card (well bastardised someone elses really!) which I would take with me and also leave a copy at home or elsewhere. I think the route card is a potentially great tool purely for a gross error check in that if a particular leg to a particular landmark was supposed to take 20 minutes then if you've been walking for 30 minutes and still not found it, then the alarm bells start to go off. Also, as used to be the norm in the good old days before mobile phones (!) they provide a simple way of telling people where you're going and when you'll be back. Of course I occasionally have an image in my head of a huge search party looking all over Glendalough following my Route Card while I remain strapped into my upside car just off the N11 having driven into a ditch on the way there!!!!!

You paragraphs on the ability to back down when things aren't going as planned are brilliant. In particular I may well write down your quote

ok, achieving the goal would be good, but backing down, letting it go, because that's the smartest thing to do, is an even bigger achievement

on a piece of paper and bring it with me as a reminder! I would guess that while unforeseen or unexpected issues cause many problems, simply getting in over your head is the main cause of accidents, getting lost and the subsequent need for rescue.

I have heard of emergency shelters and was told they are superb, but it has always been in the context of two or more people. Do these work well alone? Do they even make them for one person? I am very aware of the fact that the average time from no show to rescue can be very long indeed. Anything that can improve your chances over this period is worth the weight I suppose.

Funnily enough, when it comes to assessing risk, I gues that it is important to keep perspective in terms of what is acceptable and what is not. Each individual has their own idea of acceptable levels of risk but ignorance (perhaps too strong a word but it's all I can think of now) of what risk actually exists is the primary reason people do silly things. That combined with the sense of invincibility that can come with small amounts of experience can be very dangerous indeed. Like my ocassional mental image shows, driving 50 miles to get to the start of my walk may well be even riskier than a day spent on the hill alone. Yet I don't check my tyres nearly regularly enough and probably speed a little occassionally too. Because I haven't crashed yet in 12 years of driving, I have a feeling that I never will which I need to keep in check if I am to keep driving safely. I would certainly feel that this is what is in the forefront of my mind when I look at my plans for hillwalking. I would certainly prefer to tell people that I carried 20 kgs of survival gear and emergency equipment that I never used all over Ireland and gave up on a few walks half way through then be lying in a hospital bed contemplating life without a leg or whatever. I know just becuase I am aware of the risks doesn't mean they won't happen but I do feel you gain some level of protection just through knowledge alone.

On that note I will definitely be booking myself on a REC FA course and MS too.

Thanks for the replies people!!

BostonB

You can always slip on a rock and crack your head.

irishlostboy

BostonB wrote: »

You can always slip on a rock and crack your head.

yes, this is true. but not helpful.

Ta me anseo; although what you write is true, dont get overly wrapped up in the potential for tragedy. you will just scare yourself off. truth is, for most sensable people, walking in irish hills is very safe. tragedies do happen. but they are rare. you are bang on right when you say your drive to your starting point would probably be more danger ridden.
for your safety, some handy pieces of kit are; first aid kit. (something small with a few bandages is fine. 90% of first aid is common sense) a whistle, an orange plastic bivy bag (available at and outdoor shop) a space blanket (silver tinfoily thing you can get in tesco) a spare fleece, a flask of hot drink and some chocolate bars, and a torch, a couple of lengths of paracord, and an opinel.
but then look at that list. they would be good things to carry in your car at all times too!
this is the total emergency kit i would bring anywhere usually. and i go out on my own a lot. quite often for several days at a time.
and yes, remote emergency care and mountain skills courses are worth every penny.
hope this helps.

Hugh_C

BostonB wrote: »

You can always slip on a rock and crack your head.

Or get hit on the head by a meteorite ...
:rolleyes:

I do a fair bit of solo hill-walking but would always leave a verbal description of the route. Must get round to leaving it visible on the car dashboard too.

BostonB

Hugh_C wrote: »

Or get hit on the head by a meteorite ...
:rolleyes:

You can be facile all you like. Wife of someone in our office slipped crossing a stream and cracked their head. Needed assistance. I can't imagine its that uncommon.

fergalr

BostonB wrote: »

You can be facile all you like. Wife of someone in our office slipped crossing a stream and cracked their head. Needed assistance. I can't imagine its that uncommon.

Actually, I was surprised when I read Hugh_Cs comment - meteorites were the first thing that came into my head (sorry) when I saw your post about slipping on a rock, BostonB.

I just misinterpreted your comment (and maybe Hugh_C did too), thought you were being flippant, saying that there was no point in thinking about the likelihoods of various risks, because any freak accident can happen anyway. Hearing that you were actually speaking from experience puts a different light on things. That sounds like a tough story - hope things worked out ok for the woman in question in the end.

I'm sure events like that do indeed happen now and again, although I'd guess probably not as frequently as lower leg stuff, exhaustion etc.
It's on that basis that I'd be going, if I was heading into the hills alone; accepting there's some chance of something like that happening me, but thinking that it's unlikely enough that I'm personally willing to risk it, and having taken steps to deal with what I see as the more likely scenarios. I'd also be more conservative about the type of terrain and conditions I'd go out in on my own.

Ta me anseo

I suppose the actual chances of something happening to you while hillwalking are about the same as any other activity in life. The main difference is in the isolation and subsequent long delay in getting help. An injury in itself is not necessarily a problem other than the obvious, but it's the delay in getting seen to that can cause huge long term impact.

BostonB

I'll add more to the story, the womans husband is a every experienced hill walker, has done the montain leader course. The woman knew to avoid standing on stones in rivers, but for some reason, did it this one time and slipped. There wasn't any serious injury.

It just highlights how something simple can happen. Can happen crossing the street. As you say the real issue is the delay it takes to get help.

I think as someone else said, it also highlights how you have to take a more conservative approach to the route when on your own.

irishlostboy

BostonB wrote: »

You can be facile all you like. Wife of someone in our office slipped crossing a stream and cracked their head. Needed assistance. I can't imagine its that uncommon.

well, tbh, the "you can slip on your head" comment, without further clarification is as facile (cute word. yes, i googled it) as the response it got. as it stood on its own it was less helpful than "watch out for sheep", and such the replies the comment got were expectable. so no real need to get bent out of shape.

ya, i have seen people hit by falling rocks, people fall into gullys, sinkholes etc. i have also seen sheep fall off cliffs (whats red and white and life all over? ) but lets face it, splitting hairs about such posibilities wont get someone out for a walk. take on board realistic risk assesment and prepare for them. if that is too much, or if you head-trip yourself on the "what-if's" you will not get away from your living room. and lets face it, statisticly you are far more likely to suffer a terrible accident and die in your own home than you are of falling, hitting your head and dieing on the side of a mountain.

BostonB

Didn't think you'd need further clarification. Its the kinda scenerio you have to make provision for. Thats all. I'm not saying don't go walking.

Evil Phil

I know somebody who broke the coccyx slipping on their bottom stairs! Broken-arse jokes aside, and there were a lot of them cos were bast*rds, hillwalking on your own is brilliant, just be careful. Common sense is all that's required though.

Presonally I hate crossing streams on my own just in case I do slip. So if you see some loon wading in a crouched position through a stream, bent over with his hands out in front of him looking extremely silly - come over and say hi to me.

fergalr

Evil Phil wrote: »

I know somebody who broke the coccyx slipping on their bottom stairs! Broken-arse jokes aside, and there were a lot of them cos were bast*rds, hillwalking on your own is brilliant, just be careful. Common sense is all that's required though.

Presonally I hate crossing streams on my own just in case I do slip. So if you see some loon wading in a crouched position through a stream, bent over with his hands out in front of him looking extremely silly - come over and say hi to me.

Kind of veering OT a bit, I find hiking poles v useful in such situations, had to cross a lot of very swollen wicklow streams at night during this years rogaine and they were very useful for avoiding losing balance.

Alun

fergalr wrote: »

Kind of veering OT a bit, I find hiking poles v useful in such situations, had to cross a lot of very swollen wicklow streams at night during this years rogaine and they were very useful for avoiding losing balance.

Yes, very useful indeed for that (used them a lot yesterday on the Inchavore River!). Also very useful in the wet and soggy areas between the peat hags to prod the ground in front of you to see how firm it is, and also to use as impromptu vaulting poles to jump over some of the worst bits.

irishlostboy

ya. walking poles are very useful. i use them all the time. they have all kinds of uses outside of just walking support too.

fergalr

irishlostboy wrote: »

ya. walking poles are very useful. i use them all the time. they have all kinds of uses outside of just walking support too.

'This guy I know' was doing an adventure race, where there was an overnight break, with camping. This guys team got to the campsite quite late (~2am), because they weren't the fastest team in the race. Very tired, they went to put up their tent, and discovered that while they'd packed pretty much everything you could want in an adventure race*, the tent pegs were nowhere to be found.

If you're camping beside a beach where there's no twigs to turn into pegs, 2 hiking poles make 4 good solid pegs - stones for the rest. I've heard.


*apart from enough food, can never pack enough food.