Boiler timer problem

blahblah06

Hi guys i have a timer like this

http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ba/baxi-24-hour-mechanical-time-kit.jpg

ie switch fully up is off. middle is timer bottom is fully on.

Ok problem. works fine when off and fully on

now you see the arrow in the photo when i put the timer setting on and pull the switches up for say an hour it works fine until it gets to the end of that hour and the thing just shuts down. even if i have more bars pulled up a few hours later it doesnt make its way around the clock.

any help would be appreciated. i think im doing things right

chuckles30

Is the clock actually keeping time correctly when the heating is fully on or off? I had to replace a timer last year as it just stopped keeping time completely......and I actually got one just like the one in that pic, so fingers crossed it keeps working.

blahblah06

hi chuckles. no its defo not keeping time. to be honest its been like this since i moved in. prob always faulty but its odd it keeps the time when the bars are up on the timer part then it just stops. very annoying. is it expensive to replace it ?

blahblah06

would this be any use?

http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.meteorelectrical.com/images/cat/K003.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.meteorelectrical.com/catalog/478&usg=__4qdURKO3ZlYOYGoO3crRxi5kWgM=&h=98&w=100&sz=8&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=G9--w5AyEvcm2M:&tbnh=80&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3DGrasslin%2B24%2BHour%2BSurface%2BMounted%2B16A%2Bat%2B240V%2BAC%2BResistive%2BTimeswitch%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4DKUK_en-GBIE290IE290%26sa%3DN

or should i go to a lecky shop. id rather get the one like this as i have tiled around it and have no room for a digital one

blahblah06

ok lads. ive replaced the timer but the same issue still arises.
the clock will not continue to turn on its own.

please help

JamesM

Is it the same make or a new one. With another type of timer, you may need to put a loop between the live and the contact for the clock. Check the wiring instructions.
Jim.

blahblah06

hi james. its a different one. there is a black wire which looks like a loop as you say on it already but that was on the last one to. just very odd the heating works but not on timer mode

willbur

if you can take photo of the cables and of the connections of the timer i might be able to help, most boilers need a permenant live supply so that the pump can run on after the boiler switches of to prevent over heating , the wiring could be wrong :cool:

blahblah06

hi mate thanks for this.here is the pics

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq131/dublintaxidriver/DSC00035.jpg

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq131/dublintaxidriver/DSC00034.jpg

http://s441.photobucket.com/albums/qq131/dublintaxidriver/?action=view&current=DSC00032.jpg

JamesM

Hi, I got your PM. It was Willbur who asked for the photos, I'm not an electrician, but looking at the photos, you can see that the clock part seems to have power to it. The white and left hand red should power the clock. If the wires on 2 and 4 on the base have been reversed, the timer might only work when the timer is timed to be on. Is the clock face turning at any time ?
I also note that there seem to be 3 neutrals into the base, while there are 4 live wires. I presume that the black and brown in number 4 are out to the boiler and the pump. The 2 browns in number 2 are the live in, and continuous power out to another appliance.
All I can think of is, make sure that the "live in", is one of the brown wires in 2and not one of the wires in 4.
Jim.

blahblah06

hi james sorry about that. the timer doesnt turn at all on its own. only when the bars are set for a 15 min period does it turn then it just stops and wont continue on

JamesM

blahblah06 wrote: »

hi james sorry about that. the timer doesnt turn at all on its own. only when the bars are set for a 15 min period does it turn then it just stops and wont continue on

If the clock is only turning during the time that the timer is set to be on, then look at my suggestion about the wrong wires in 2 and 4. Make sure, with a phase tester, that the live is connected to 2. See if the clock turns when the timer is set to ON, not timed.
Jim.

blahblah06

ok james so i swap the black and brown for the two brown ye ? sorry im just not good at this

JamesM

blahblah06 wrote: »

ok james so i swap the black and brown for the two brown ye ? sorry im just not good at this

Wait ! Don't do anything on my say
I don't know if it was wrongly wired at the beginning or, maybe you changed them or what
There is a chance that the live input to the timer is going to number 4 instead of number 2 - this could cause your problem.
But, you need to check, with a phase tester and see which is live, 2 or 4.
Jim.

willbur

any joy getting it fixed , its hard to say from the photos , without tracing the wiring 0nsite ps is there a thermostat any where in the hous:cool:e

blahblah06

im still alive haha. well i havent tried anything but its still the same

willbur there is a stat. why do you ask?

blahblah06

just to add to this. the timer works when the heating is fully on. ie the clock goes around. however not when the timer method is on

JamesM

blahblah06 wrote: »

just to add to this. the timer works when the heating is fully on. ie the clock goes around. however not when the timer method is on

Then, I think that what I said in my last post is correct.
But it is impossible for me to see where the wires are going, and what they are connected to. I don't know where the black wire is going - maybe to a stat in the house. It is likely that the 2 brown wires, the same colour, in 2 and 4, were mixed up and need to be swapped. The way to tell, is to check which is live with a phase tester. I am afraid that you may need someone with a little bit of knowledge to check it out.
The only way someone here can help, is if you tell us what each wire is connected to(eg. mains, burner, pump etc.).
Jim.

blahblah06

Hi james. ok i swapped the 2 browns without checking.now heres the funny thing.there is a thicking noise from the clock but the boiler wont turn off when the switch is at off. it shuts down the pilot light but light on boiler stays on

JamesM

blahblah06 wrote: »

Hi james. ok i swapped the 2 browns without checking.now heres the funny thing.there is a thicking noise from the clock but the boiler wont turn off when the switch is at off. it shuts down the pilot light but light on boiler stays on

It looks as if the brown that was in 4 is the live. Now it is powering the clock. But also it looks as if the lighter brown in 2 is the wire going to the boiler. Now that they are in the same connector, there is power all the time to the boiler.
When you rewired, could you have mixed up the original two wires that were in 2, with the ones in 4 ?
It is very dodgy just swopping and sticking in wires all over the place :eek:
You really need to know where the different wires are coming from - or going to.
Jim.

blahblah06

Hi james. i know but im getting desperate. i defo didnt mix the wires because i basically took one wire out at a time and replaced it in the new one the exact same way

JamesM

Did the original timer ever work properly for you ? Or was that problem always there. If so, then it is wired incorrectly.
Is the new timer meant to be a direct replacement for the old one ?
Did you replace all the wires in the base ? How did you know where to put each one - are the bases the same ?
It still comes down to knowing where the wires come from, or go to.
Jim.

blahblah06

The timer never worked for me james. I guess it is the wiring. I shall get a sparks in and let you know how i get on.thanks a mill for ur help.

JamesM

blahblah06 wrote: »

The timer never worked for me james. I guess it is the wiring. I shall get a sparks in and let you know how i get on.thanks a mill for ur help.

I'm afraid that's the only answer I have wired timers before, but there seems to be at least one extra live wire in there - He'll know what's what when he sees the layout.
Jim.

knx

Hi blah
Have you had any luck. I've installed loads of those Zahler timeclocks and I've had to replace most of them because they're rubbish. If I was you I would replace this one with an APT or Flash timeclock. They will fit on the same back box. About €20 to €30.
I pay €20 for the flash ones in the wholesalers. I used to pay a tenner for Zahler. Worth spending the extra..

blahblah06

hi mate. no luck i even resorted back to the old one. changed the wiring. the timer works and clock goes around but now the boiler stays on. pilot light goes off but green light stays on with something running in the background of boiler. sounds like a pump. dont know if this is normal

JamesM

blahblah06 wrote: »

hi mate. no luck i even resorted back to the old one. changed the wiring. the timer works and clock goes around but now the boiler stays on. pilot light goes off but green light stays on with something running in the background of boiler. sounds like a pump. dont know if this is normal

First of all, you need to be very careful :eek: :eek:
Get a phase tester at your local hardware. Leave the blue, white, grey and red wires where they are in the photos I have seen. With the phase tester, find which of the brown and black wires is the live in to the timer. It is the one which lights the phase tester when it is connected to nothing else. When you have found the live, try connecting it, in turn, to the other brown and black wires. Something should start up at each connection, maybe the burner or the pump (probably the backgroung sound you hear). Mark these wires. Maybe then we can figure where everything should be.
Jim.