The case for Drogheda United's survival

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what, exactly, does building a stadium have to do with it?

where are they getting the money for the building?

Zebra3

Des wrote: »

what, exactly, does building a stadium have to do with it?

Not a whole lot. Just pointing out their in a better position than us yet some seem to think we should overtake them (and 2 other clubs) to get Drogheda's place.

Des wrote: »

where are they getting the money for the building?

They've sold Finn Park to a developer and it's up to him to build their new ground before he gets his paws on Finn Park.

Amazing way to run a club really. Sell your ground and just sell it the once and, then use your ground to secure another one instead of increasing the wealth of wasters like Alan Moore while chasing a pipe dream.

Kudos Harps.

A P

I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind for or against the Drogs survival, but I'd like people to view these submissions and consider them as being representative of the depth of passion that lies out there for League of Ireland clubs. It's not just about football, it's about being a part of something. I got this submission in earlier from a Portadown fan. It sums sport up really - the power to break down boundaries.


Drogheda United, what a situation, for a start our friendship started through the Setanta Cup, we met Droghedas loyal fans and formed friendships for life..
Six years ago this would not have happened.. Northern Protestants from the loyalist heartland of Portadown heading down into enemy territory, and that's the way it was perceived in those earlier days even contemplating or daring to go to Drogheda, never mind spend time and make friendships and watch football..
The point i am making this would never have happened without Drogheda football club or its fans.
Why you may ask, they put the hand of friendship out which i could never have imagined even possible..
Politicians North and South have been trying for years to cross this divide, and here we have a town South of the Border called Drogheda and its people welcomed us with open arms and to be quite honest, the impossible happened..
The fear i had when i first went down was totally unfounded, you would have thought we where friends all of our lives..
I cant reiterate this enough, Drogheda United broke and hammered the sectarian myth that was had before we went down.
The whole mindset just changed and now after 2 to 3 seasons we have more fans heading down to watch the Drogs to watch the footie.
I have told the people of Portadown and make no bones about it that the whole experience has been fantastic, we love the fans the club and everything about Drogheda United..
Now even the Drogs fans come to watch my team Portadown without one word in anger spoke to any of them..
It would be an absolute tragedy for this club to be wound up, i hope common sense at the end of the day prevails and the club survives.
I again before i close this post, personally and im sure my fellow PORTS DROGS would do the same, would like to thank everyone associated with Drogheda United FC AND ITS SUPPORTERS FOR CHANGING A MINDSET and making us feel so welcome and i pray from the bottom of my heart that this MUST continue and more fans from my club head down there and see for themselves that Sport breaks down banners of divisions and fears and for this reason alone, never mind all the others and there are many, has to be playing next season.. PLEA OVER..

dreamers75

A P wrote: »

I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind for or against the Drogs survival,

in fairness its just bitter shels fans who think you should die, and the odd rovers fan but in fairness their clubs are a pillar of everythign that should be done right.

Shels cheated to gain titles got punished now have bitter fans, rovers got a free ground from the goverment which they will rule the world from.......well at least until they are kicked out for having the worst fans in the country mingle with the worst area in the country.


but seriously listen to these fans they know their stuff.

Zebra3

dreamers75 wrote: »

in fairness its just bitter shels fans who think you should die, and the odd rovers fan but in fairness their clubs are a pillar of everythign that should be done right.

Shels cheated to gain titles got punished

Wrong. We didn't break any rules while winning league titles. Unlike a certain other club in the past which broke the league's rules and felt they should be exempt from them. :rolleyes:

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

CiaranC

dreamers75 wrote: »

rovers got a free ground from the goverment which they will rule the world from.......well at least until they are kicked out for having the worst fans in the country mingle with the worst area in the country.


but seriously listen to these fans they know their stuff.

What a load of rubbish. When we faced financial meltdown 'the worst fans in the country' grouped together and saved our club. Now we own it and run it. We're the best run club in country now.

And I have to laugh at the jealousy of other muppet clubs on us having a partnership with SDCC for the ground. It exists because we have a savvy board of passionate fans, which is more than be said for the likes of Drogheda.

Zebra3

CiaranC wrote: »

When we faced financial meltdown 'the worst fans in the country' grouped together and saved our club.

Not true. You were saved by a judge.

CiaranC wrote: »

We're the best run club in country now.

Can you back that up with facts? :rolleyes:

CiaranC

Heres some facts. We ran under budget last year, we didnt sell our ground twice (Bohs), or sack or manager without compo (Cork), or gamble our clubs future on a property deal and lose(Drogheda), or have to go to the community for emergency funds (Sligo), or talk about pulling out of the league (Cobh), or go into administration (Cork, Drogheda), or lose a court case against any former employees (Bohs), or scrap our youth system (Bohs), or implode in a farcical public internal fued (Bohs, again), or run close to bankruptcy (Harps), or get relegated (UCD), or talk about where we are going to play after 2010 (Shels), or slash our budget for next year (Pats), or say wed have to pull out of football altogether (Athlone).

I could go on.

But the fact is, we are running our club properly, unlike the clowns all around us. At this rate the league will be us, Derry, UCD and Shels in the AUL, playing each other ten times a year.

SectionF

Talk about begrudgery! Look, Drogheda are on the verge of extinction and are doing everything they can to stay afloat, which is no less than any other group of dedicated fans would do. This is a time for keeping sporting rivalry in its place.

Reading this thread, with people tearing strips off each other for the financial misdemeanours of their respective clubs, tells us nothing new. All LoI clubs struggle and make do however they can. Most are run by people with limited business experience, and who are willing to look beyond the almost complete absence of a business case for their club. That won't change until Irish football fans decide that they want to support Irish football.

We can sit here cheaply reciting the litany of each other's errors or we can move forward. I hope Drogheda make it through, and I hope they succeed in achieving their aim for this season, whether that be in the First Division or the Premier. Great people, great club, great away trip that I, for one, would miss.

stovelid

I tend to agree with SectionF. Unless you've been whiter than white, pointing the finger eventually leads back to your own club, past or present. I want to see more punishments, but I don't want to see clubs go out of business.

And I wish we could bed the utter sh*te of Rovers got a free stadium down, once and for all. Anybody who still actually thinks that is a member of the GAAliban or is on a wind-up.

Zebra3

CiaranC wrote: »

Heres some facts. We ran under budget last year, we didnt sell our ground twice (Bohs), or sack or manager without compo (Cork), or gamble our clubs future on a property deal and lose(Drogheda), or have to go to the community for emergency funds (Sligo), or talk about pulling out of the league (Cobh), or go into administration (Cork, Drogheda), or lose a court case against any former employees (Bohs), or scrap our youth system (Bohs), or implode in a farcical public internal fued (Bohs, again), or run close to bankruptcy (Harps), or get relegated (UCD), or talk about where we are going to play after 2010 (Shels), or slash our budget for next year (Pats), or say wed have to pull out of football altogether (Athlone).

I could go on.

But the fact is, we are running our club properly, unlike the clowns all around us. At this rate the league will be us, Derry, UCD and Shels in the AUL, playing each other ten times a year.

What about Rovers asking their members for their subs up front?

There is nothing wrong with the way our club is being run at the moment so how can you say which is being run better? How can you say Rovers are being better run than UCD?

And what's wrong with Pat's slashing their budget? Is that not a correct move that a well-run club would be taking?

CiaranC

I agree UCD are very well run. And they are paying the price. Dont know much about your club tbh, other than it has really bitter fans.

Pats slashed their budget because they were running a ridiculous wage budget for little gain. Good for them if theyve learned a lesson from others, its more than can be said for Drogheda.

stovelid

Zebra3 wrote: »

What about Rovers asking their members for their subs up front?

When?

I pay mine monthly.

CiaranC

stovelid wrote: »

When?

I pay mine monthly.

As do I. I do recall that when the 400 club was set up, they suggested members buy a couple of years in advance.

I think we have nearly 600 members now.

Zebra3

Was it not before the start of last season Rovers asked their fans for two years subs up front?

CiaranC wrote: »

Dont know much about your club tbh,

So how can you say your club is better run then?

A P

Even a Shelbourne fan would have to smile at this submission!

To the important people reading this,
We go to school in St Patricks Boys National School. We are 7 years old, but some of us are 7 and a half and some of us are 8. we were very sad when we heard that Drogheda United might be gone forever. We love them. We call them the drogs. Our teacher, Ms Carolan, loves them too even thought she is a girl. We think everybody in Drogheda loves them. Lots of the boys in room 1 want to be footballers when they grow up. The drogs are so nice. They came in to talk to us about playing football and how you have to eat healthy food and be good at school.
When the drogs won the eircom league it was the best day ever. Some of the players came to our school again and this time they brought the cup! We were so exited and we could hardly sit in our seats. We got photos taken with the cup and the players.
Please, please help to save the drogs. Our teacher says that they are great role models for us. We want to be just like them, to eat healthy and do lots of exercise and be good in school so one day we can wear the claret and blue for our favourite team.
Thank you for reading our letter. From all the boys in room 1, St Patricks N.S

They also wrote a poem:

Save drogheda united
A fantastic team
Very very loved
Everybodys dream
The people of Drogheda
Hate to see them go
Everybody is so sad
Dont leave us feeling low
Reach into your heart
Once chance, one dream
Grant us our only wish
Save our beloved team!

If you read down the first letter of every line it spells......SAVE THE DROGS!

DSB

I do think thats really nice, especially having a 6 year old brother who is crazy about Shels. I still don't think it justifies anything. Kinda makes me hope you do pull through though.

Frank Spencer

The Drogs will be discussed on Mooney on RTE Radio One today @ 3pm.

bohsman

Zebra3 wrote: »

Not true. You were saved by a Bohs supporting judge.

FYP

Zebra3

bohsman wrote: »

FYP

Where was he for your case v Albion then?

A P

Another great piece just in:

January 19, 2009

To whom it may concern,

Drogheda United Football Club. To some reading the name may mean nothing but to me and many others it has a depth and meaning that will never be lost, as I sincerely hope the club will not.

As a teenager and young adult in the harsh economic times of the 1980’s and early 90’s, Drogheda United Football Club was an oasis from the successive pressures of the Leaving Cert, university exams and chartered accountancy exams, and a source of pride in a then bleak, depressing town and time. Camaraderie, great friendships that endure to this day, stories, road trips, laughs, fanzines, a place to put the blinders on to everyday life, and something to look forward to each week. And they weren’t the glory days of League titles and Cups and European adventures. They were the times of battling for survival, relegation, battling for promotion, back in the Premier Division and cycling through this over and over. When a 2-0 win over the mighty Derry City is a day I’ll never forget, when having the speakers work on the popular side of the ground was an achievement, and winning the Shield with a fluky late goal was the only silverware we had a chance of winning.

A friend, Dave, brought me along and always said if everyone who goes brings someone else, it’ll grow and survive. I brought my brother, 11 years younger than me, and a diehard today, working to help the club survive. And I’m proud of that.

I live across the ocean in the sunny desert of New Mexico now. Just before I left Ireland, at my going away do in KPMG, I was presented with a t-shirt with the slogan “The only sad b****** who supports the Drogs”, a cherished possession. And that t-shirt became even more special over recent years as we won the FAI Cup and ultimately the crowning glory of a League Title.

I regret not flying home for the cup final, listened on the internet to Gabriel Egan’s commentary, calling my brother throughout the game to get a feel for the atmosphere, what a feeling it must have been to be there.

Then, the League Title. Rushing home from work at lunch time on that famous day when we clinched the league with Guy Bates’ goal over Cork. Watching it live from United Park on rte.ie. Looking like a draw was inevitable and the feed from rte.ie cut out and I couldn’t get connected again. Scrambling to find the radio feed and eventually getting connected right after the goal, the frustration at missing it live overcome with the slow deeply satisfying realization that the Drogs had won the League. Yes, my team from my hometown had won the League. Never was that possible and here it had happened. A couple of days later in Omaha, Nebraska on business, in the hotel lobby scrambling to find a flight to get me home for the last game of the season for the League Trophy presentation. I’d missed the Cup Final, I wasn’t going to miss this. And I didn’t, I was there, on the field celebrating with those same friends that I’d gone to games with week in, week out in the 80’s and 90’s. It might never happen again, I thought…….

And here we are, just over a year later, and everything that Drogheda United Football Club has given me, the friendships, the raw emotion, the highs, the lows, the pride in my hometown, the distraction from the realities of life…..may not be there for another teenager to experience and carry with them through all their life.

That saddens me. There’s a unique-ness to the Drogheda United and League of Ireland experience that can’t be replaced.

May the club, my club, survive, because it deserves to.

Sincerely,

Gavin "shels"

Any idea what time on Thursday the court case is at?

A P

Don't know to be honest Gavin. The creditors meeting is tomorrow and the case is due to be heard in the High Court on Thursday but it could possibly drag into Friday from what I've heard. Really hope not because I've taken Thursday off work to head to the court. Can't wait for it now. It has been the most exhausting and enjoyable 8 weeks of my life. The people I have met and worked alongside to try to save the club have restored my faith in human nature. Sorry if that sounds corny but it's true. Whatever the outcome is, we can have no regrets - we have given it 100% and that's all we can do. Roll on Thursday

Gavin "shels"

Seems as long as Revenue roll over as they did for Cork City you's should survive.

http://www.droghedaunited.ie/news/single/id/1527

DSB

Good luck anyways, hope it works out.

LuckyLloyd

CiaranC wrote: »

I agree UCD are very well run. And they are paying the price.

Failure on the pitch is burdensome, failure off it is catastrophic. Stretching yourself too far to win games isn't worth it if you go bust.

I have to agree wholeheartedly with DSB's position in this thread. A P has conclusively demonstrated that there are many, many people who hold a strong emotional affiliation with the football club. And that their lives will be adversely affected if it ultimately fails. However, in my opinion, he has failed to convince me that such strength of feeling merits special consideration - particularly in the current economic environment.

Many of the people recently made redundant by Dell and their families will suffer as a consequence. Ditto the hundreds of thousands of people who are set to lose their jobs in this country over the coming year or so as their employers fail or pull out of Ireland. I'm sure such people could submit plenty of heartfelt and affecting submissions on how employment benefits their lives and how it would be deeply preferable for them to not face the alternative. But such statements would not change reality.

Reality should not be altered in this case either. Businesses can't continue and are forced to shut down or close up every day, week and month of every year. And so it should be. If in the end Drogheda are forced to wrap things up as a consequence of their mistakes - it is harsh. But it is just.

A P wrote: »

Don't know to be honest Gavin. The creditors meeting is tomorrow and the case is due to be heard in the High Court on Thursday but it could possibly drag into Friday from what I've heard. Really hope not because I've taken Thursday off work to head to the court. Can't wait for it now. It has been the most exhausting and enjoyable 8 weeks of my life. The people I have met and worked alongside to try to save the club have restored my faith in human nature. Sorry if that sounds corny but it's true. Whatever the outcome is, we can have no regrets - we have given it 100% and that's all we can do. Roll on Thursday

It sounds like you personally have done your utmost and will have nothing to regret irrespective of the outcome. Good luck.

SectionF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Many of the people recently made redundant by Dell and their families will suffer as a consequence. Ditto the hundreds of thousands of people who are set to lose their jobs in this country over the coming year or so as their employers fail or pull out of Ireland. I'm sure such people could submit plenty of heartfelt and affecting submissions on how employment benefits their lives and how it would be deeply preferable for them to not face the alternative. But such statements would not change reality.

Reality should not be altered in this case either. Businesses can't continue and are forced to shut down or close up every day, week and month of every year. And so it should be. If in the end Drogheda are forced to wrap things up as a consequence of their mistakes - it is harsh. But it is just.

This contribution points up the question facing football at all levels, from the Kaka/City madness down.
If football is just another business, why should anyone have any interest in it? As mobile consumers, why shouldn't we take up an interest in a more prosperous sport, in the same way as some attach themselves to the best teams in the best leagues in elite countries?
I think the events in Drogheda over the past few weeks, and not least the posts here by AP, demonstrate that Drogheda Utd, as any national league club, is a much, bigger and richer thing than any business.
Of course it needs to be run as a business, but only as a means to a footballing and community end. Unless you are a totally brainwashed accountant, who thinks the world is nothing more than balance sheets and P&L accounts, that is the bigger reality.

Benedict XVI

SectionF wrote: »

This contribution points up the question facing football at all levels, from the Kaka/City madness down.
If football is just another business, why should anyone have any interest in it? As mobile consumers, why shouldn't we take up an interest in a more prosperous sport, in the same way as some attach themselves to the best teams in the best leagues in elite countries?
I think the events in Drogheda over the past few weeks, and not least the posts here by AP, demonstrate that Drogheda Utd, as any national league club, is a much, bigger and richer thing than any business.
Of course it needs to be run as a business, but only as a means to a footballing and community end. Unless you are a totally brainwashed accountant, who thinks the world is nothing more than balance sheets and P&L accounts, that is the bigger reality.

All that may be true but if you don't pay your vat and tax as a business you have to pay the penalty for it.

Some argue that sport is more than a business, it may be, but some elements of a club have to be run like a business and that includes its obligations to the revenue authorities.

Zebra3

Gavin shels wrote: »

Seems as long as Revenue roll over as they did for Cork City you's should survive.

I didn't think the taxman "rolled over" in Cork's case. I thought he objected?

LuckyLloyd

SectionF wrote: »

This contribution points up the question facing football at all levels, from the Kaka/City madness down.
If football is just another business, why should anyone have any interest in it? As mobile consumers, why shouldn't we take up an interest in a more prosperous sport, in the same way as some attach themselves to the best teams in the best leagues in elite countries?
I think the events in Drogheda over the past few weeks, and not least the posts here by AP, demonstrate that Drogheda Utd, as any national league club, is a much, bigger and richer thing than any business.
Of course it needs to be run as a business, but only as a means to a footballing and community end. Unless you are a totally brainwashed accountant, who thinks the world is nothing more than balance sheets and P&L accounts, that is the bigger reality.

I'm sorry, while this is nice sentiment, the underpinning reality for a professional football club is that it is a business. The difference is of course that, if it fails, it's 'customers' feel it more deeply and strongly than if the likes of woolworths go to the wall. But nevertheless it remains incumbent upon the owners, board of directors, manager, fans etc, etc to keep the show on the road indefinitely through keeping an eye on the bottom line at all times.

This requires a willingness from all involved to sacrifice on pitch success during certain periods. For, when you concede heavily in the financial sense, you may not get a second chance to pick yourself up. And if the club really means that much to the fans, they should have the good sense to put up with bad seasons with relatively lessor teams for the greater good of the club's future.

So ultimately, we can dress it up or down and call it what we like. But the financial realities that anchor professional football cannot be escaped. If you find those realities truly abhorrent there is always amateur football...

PDN

Drogs live to fight another day (well, for at least a week). RTE posted thios on their website 5 minutes ago:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0122/drogheda.html

RTE wrote:

Drogheda hopeful of positive outcome
Thursday, 22 January 2009 17:58

An examiner appointed to soccer club Drogheda United has informed the High Court that the club could continue successfully if the court approves a survival plan.

However, Ms Justice Finlay Geoghgan has sought further clarification on the type of funding secured by the club after receiving the report of the examiner.

The court heard that a meeting of creditors yesterday had approved proposals for discharging debts. Lawyers for the examiner said the dividends involved were not enormous but would ensure the survival of the club.

Gerry Mc Carthy said the examiner was inundated with accounts from the people of Drogheda about the signifcance of the club in their lives. He said while it was a company, it was more than that and the court would appreciate the enormous significance of the club to the people of Drogheda in considering the application.

The judge said she did not want to take away from the voluntary people who had put together funds to allow the company to survive and come out of examinership. However, she said if a scheme of arrangement was put forward the court had to be satisfied not only about the funding in place but also about the form of that funding and about working capital.

She made an order receiving the report of the examiner and adjourned the case to next Thursday when she will rule on whether or not it may come out of examinership.

Afterwards a spokesperson for the club, Terry Collins, said they were disappointed that the process could not be concluded today but were hopeful it would be next week.

CiaranC

LuckyLlyod wrote:

I'm sorry, while this is nice sentiment, the underpinning reality for a professional football club is that it is a business. The difference is of course that, if it fails, it's 'customers' feel it more deeply and strongly than if the likes of woolworths go to the wall.

I think the difference is a bit more than that. Maybe youve been missing something.

But nevertheless it remains incumbent upon the owners, board of directors, manager, fans etc, etc to keep the show on the road indefinitely through keeping an eye on the bottom line at all times.

This requires a willingness from all involved to sacrifice on pitch success during certain periods. For, when you concede heavily in the financial sense, you may not get a second chance to pick yourself up. And if the club really means that much to the fans, they should have the good sense to put up with bad seasons with relatively lessor teams for the greater good of the club's future.

So ultimately, we can dress it up or down and call it what we like. But the financial realities that anchor professional football cannot be escaped. If you find those realities truly abhorrent there is always amateur football...

I agree with you (for once).

BTW, it doesnt have to be either Megacorporation FC or amateur football, there is actually a middle ground. I think we will see more community owned clubs in the future, operating as a business, but for their own sake and not the sake of making money.

A P wrote:

It has been the most exhausting and enjoyable 8 weeks of my life. The people I have met and worked alongside to try to save the club have restored my faith in human nature. Sorry if that sounds corny but it's true. Whatever the outcome is, we can have no regrets - we have given it 100% and that's all we can do. Roll on Thursday

I know Ive given stick about whats happened at Drogheda here, and I still dont understand why the fans havent run Hoey et al out of town, but fair play. Its always nice to see the passion of a real grassroots football fan.

SectionF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm sorry, while this is nice sentiment, the underpinning reality for a professional football club is that it is a business. The difference is of course that, if it fails, it's 'customers' feel it more deeply and strongly than if the likes of woolworths go to the wall. But nevertheless it remains incumbent upon the owners, board of directors, manager, fans etc, etc to keep the show on the road indefinitely through keeping an eye on the bottom line at all times.

This requires a willingness from all involved to sacrifice on pitch success during certain periods. For, when you concede heavily in the financial sense, you may not get a second chance to pick yourself up. And if the club really means that much to the fans, they should have the good sense to put up with bad seasons with relatively lessor teams for the greater good of the club's future.

So ultimately, we can dress it up or down and call it what we like. But the financial realities that anchor professional football cannot be escaped. If you find those realities truly abhorrent there is always amateur football...

I'm sorry. I don't mean to preach, but what is standing out here is what an impoverished universe you live in. For you, the whole of existence is a market.
Of course the business has to work. But there are realities beyond business. Those realities are what are keeping Drogheda alive right now. If it was a PC plant, it would have shut already.
McDonalds is a more successful business than my local restaurant, with a much better grip on your alleged realities. I'd much rather support my local restaurant.

CiaranC

99% of football clubs are no more businesses than churches are. Sure they have bills to pay, but they are far more than just businesses.

I fail to see how any real football fan could disagree.

Ronan|Raven

Even if they survive into the season somehow or another, if they manage to meet the licensing criteria I will be astounded. A division license surely at most?

stovelid

A football cub is first and foremost a community institution. Probably why they sometimes get more leeway than normal businesses.

Being a business allows it to exist; being a good business allows it to succeed; being a business is not why it exists.

I understand the business angle in a way as there is only so long that clubs can be allowed to throw money away and expect creditors and the revenue to eat sh*t when it all ends in tears. It's a lesson that is slowly being learned here. Although I'm not sure that fans of English clubs that are thousands of millions of pounds in debt should be preaching homilies on prudence and good financial management.

Despite understanding the business angle, I have never, ever been on a football forum in my life before where there is so much talk of clubs in terms of business and product.

Benedict XVI

CiaranC wrote: »

99% of football clubs are no more businesses than churches are. Sure they have bills to pay, but they are far more than just businesses.

I fail to see how any real football fan could disagree.

But churches don't have ego-manics throwing money at them until it all goes pear shaped and then go cap in hand to the tax man asking for a break.

To the fans football is not a business but to the owners it is and that's all it is. (in most cases).

I totally agree with you on Hoey by the way.

Zebra3

CiaranC wrote: »

99% of football clubs are no more businesses than churches are.

Most churches are money making scams that are abused as useful political tools by those running them.

stovelid wrote: »

A football cub is first and foremost a community institution.

In most cases, that is the situation. However that is not the case with FCs that are PLCs. All PLCs (not just FCs) are by law obliged to show their first loyalty to their shareholders. Any board of directors of a PLC that acts otherwise is open to a criminal prosecution. The only reason any PLC (including those who front as a FC) pays any sort of lip service to its community is simply to indulge in PR bollocks to boost shareholders' profits.

Facts like that just shows how totally and utterly clueless some people who would describe themselves as football fans are. Those Man Utd fans who protested outside OT when Glazier was taking over had me in stitches. They had banners saying "Not For Sale" in reference to their club. Their club was bought and sold every day on the SE and had been for donkeys years until Glazier bought up enough shares to take it private.

It is the moral obligation of every football fan to do everything they can to stop their club being floated publicily because a FC being a PLC is a total contradiction of everything a FC should be.

While none of the above actually applies to Drogheda, all involved with the club made no objection to the club being used a front to make huge profits on property by certain individuals. Too caught up in the glory of winning major trophies to ask any simple questions like guarantees to be put in place by those funding the club in case of the stadium being turned down, the reality is that the club's employees, creditors (local businesses), and the taxpayer are now being asked to pick up the tab by those who gambled with the club's future to try and enrich themselves. One major drawback the club faces in its fight for survival is that it doesn't seem to have any plan in place to guarantee it won't allow itself to be abused like that again.

If those left to pick up the mess were really determined to show how great a sporting entity their club is, they would have apologised to those they basically cheated on during the course of the season* by gaining an unfair sporting advantage through playing players it could not in the end pay for. A statement from the club saying they would not be applying for a Premier licence this year may have brought out the best wishes of their fellow clubs who it must be noted have remained eerily silent over the last 3 months.

I do hope Drogheda survive, I've always enjoyed trips up there (and Donegal is a kip), but what has happened stinks to the highest of high heavens.

*Mainly the 3 relegated clubs.

LuckyLloyd

SectionF wrote: »

I'm sorry. I don't mean to preach, but what is standing out here is what an impoverished universe you live in. For you, the whole of existence is a market.
Of course the business has to work. But there are realities beyond business. Those realities are what are keeping Drogheda alive right now. If it was a PC plant, it would have shut already.
McDonalds is a more successful business than my local restaurant, with a much better grip on your alleged realities. I'd much rather support my local restaurant.

stovelid wrote: »

A football cub is first and foremost a community institution. Probably why they sometimes get more leeway than normal businesses.

Being a business allows it to exist; being a good business allows it to succeed; being a business is not why it exists.

I understand the business angle in a way as there is only so long that clubs can be allowed to throw money away and expect creditors and the revenue to eat sh*t when it all ends in tears. It's a lesson that is slowly being learned here. Although I'm not sure that fans of English clubs that are thousands of millions of pounds in debt should be preaching homilies on prudence and good financial management.

Despite understanding the business angle, I have never, ever been on a football forum in my life before where there is so much talk of clubs in terms of business and product.

Once you have staff, expenses and revenue you are a business. Yes, Football Clubs should not be run for profit. But where have I suggested that they should be? You can't consistently run at a loss however in the chase for on the pitch success. . And if you do, well **** you - you deserve to fail imo.

If you don't like the focus on financial realities in this forum, or feel it isn't a real football forum - go somewhere else? *Shrug. The reason why people here are so concerned about this aspect of the game is because, in many instances, the teams they support have themselves stretched much, much thinner then they would like.

Unfortunately, as far as I am concerned Drogheda's current plight is just another example of a shoddily run LOI that blindly insists on pushing for professional football when it is plainly unsustainable - whatever the rights or wrongs of that sustainability. The joys of live football, of shared experience, and of community representation will still be present in a semi - professional or amateur league...

stovelid

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Unfortunately, as far as I am concerned Drogheda's current plight is just another example of a shoddily run LOI that blindly insists on pushing for professional football when it is plainly unsustainable - whatever the rights or wrongs of that sustainability. The joys of live football, of shared experience, and of community representation will still be present in a semi - professional or amateur league...

I agree actually. For me, full-time football needs to be a prudently achieved long-term aim. And I agree with severe punishments for erring sides, as do most LOI fans here.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You can't consistently run at a loss however in the chase for on the pitch success. . And if you do, well **** you - you deserve to fail imo.
.

Are there any top EPL clubs not consistently run(ning) at a loss?

Fair enough, given the investors/buyers that the brands will attract, they will probably always continue to avoid meltdown, but it's hardly a prudent business model. Ask a Leeds fan.

LuckyLloyd

stovelid wrote: »

Are there any top EPL clubs not consistently run(ning) at a loss?

Fair enough, given the investors/buyers that the brands will attract, they will probably always continue to avoid meltdown, but it's hardly a prudent business model. Ask a Leeds fan.

If the TV money / Champions League money / sponsorship money (or in some cases if the owners went bust) disappears they are all massively in the red. The potential for another Leeds Utd is always there. However, as long as these exorbitant revenue streams remain, that money is there to be spent. Over here, such revenue is minuscule or non existent - and when that is combined with a tiny overall fanbase (in relative terms) how clubs can aspire to be fully professional is beyond me.

SectionF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If you don't like the focus on financial realities in this forum, or feel it isn't a real football forum - go somewhere else? *Shrug.

Why do neo-liberals, who worship competition, always think they have a monopoly on reality? It's a pity my not agreeing with you makes you feel that way, but I have no intention of going somewhere else.

Sure money matters, as I said, but it's only part of a much bigger reality. I'm all for football cutting its cloth, though I fear that people of your persuasion will be the first to complain that the 'product' isn't up to your exacting consumer standards.

pablomakaveli

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If the TV money / Champions League money / sponsorship money (or in some cases if the owners went bust) disappears they are all massively in the red. The potential for another Leeds Utd is always there. However, as long as these exorbitant revenue streams remain, that money is there to be spent. Over here, such revenue is minuscule or non existent - and when that is combined with a tiny overall fanbase (in relative terms) how clubs can aspire to be fully professional is beyond me.

If the clubs here never aimed to go fully professional the league would go nowhere. A fully professional league is some way off but it should be something all clubs should be aiming for in the long term. Going back to a part time league would undo a lot of the progress the league has made over the last few years.

I reckon the best thing for LOI clubs to do at the moment would be to have a squad made up of full timers and part timers. They could have say 6 or 7 full time players who would form the core of the first team and the rest part time. It would give teams a smaller wage bill but would allow for better quality teams. If the financial situation improves in the league they could begin hiring more full time players and slowly work to a full time team.

Zebra3

pablomakaveli wrote: »

If the clubs here never aimed to go fully professional the league would go nowhere. A fully professional league is some way off but it should be something all clubs should be aiming for in the long term. Going back to a part time league would undo a lot of the progress the league has made over the last few years.

I reckon the best thing for LOI clubs to do at the moment would be to have a squad made up of full timers and part timers. They could have say 6 or 7 full time players who would form the core of the first team and the rest part time. It would give teams a smaller wage bill but would allow for better quality teams. If the financial situation improves in the league they could begin hiring more full time players and slowly work to a full time team.

Talk about absolute rubbish. Clubs went full-time spending money they didn't have. It nearly wiped some clubs off the map. It was a reckless move.

The only thing clubs should be striving for is to live within their means.

eagle eye

Lloyd's post was excellent, he stated in it that he understood how the business side of football exists and I thought he explained very clearly that he understood how a football (business) going to the wall would deeply affect its customers(the fans), unlike that of a retail business(woolworths).

You guys seem to be making out that he does not understand that.
Just because he uses good grammar and his comments are more analytical in nature than what you are used to, it does not mean his comments are in anyway anti-drogheda.

From reading all his posts, I feel Lloyd is a very keen football fan at all levels. So stop ranting on about what he said and take it for what it is, a good genuine post without the 'I'm a Drogs fan and I know whats best and how much it means' rubbish attached.

stovelid

eagle eye wrote: »

Just because he uses good grammar and his comments are more analytical in nature than what you are used to,.

I wasn't under the impression that we were doing anything other than having a rational discussion with LL.

If all you can contribute to the thread are comments like the above, I suggest you get out of the thread, and leave LL to it as he is -as you point out - providing an intelligent contribution.

Unlike you.

eagle eye

stovelid wrote: »

I wasn't under the impression that we were doing anything other than having a rational discussion with LL.

If all you can contribute to the thread are comments like the above, I suggest you get out of the thread, and leave LL to it as he is -as you point out - providing an intelligent contribution.

Unlike you.

I have no intention of posting after this, basically those posting here just want an argument of some sort.
We all know its sad to see a club go to the wall, buts its unrealistic to believe a club in a small town can compete successfully in a professional league.
The reason Drogheda are in this position is that they tried to compete at the top without looking at the consequences. Whats went on here is gross negligence and those involved should never be let run any type of business ever again.

I personally hope Drogheda survive, but I want to see them punished hard for this, so that others don't follow suit and make a mess of their clubs like this.

stovelid

eagle eye wrote: »

The reason Drogheda are in this position is that they tried to compete at the top without looking at the consequences.

Whats went on here is gross negligence and those involved should never be let run any type of business ever again.

I personally hope Drogheda survive, but I want to see them punished hard for this, so that others don't follow suit and make a mess of their clubs like this.

I think that is the majority view, tbh. Certainly mine.

pablomakaveli

Zebra3 wrote: »

Talk about absolute rubbish. Clubs went full-time spending money they didn't have. It nearly wiped some clubs off the map. It was a reckless move.

The only thing clubs should be striving for is to live within their means.

Hence why i said a full time league is years away and that clubs should be looking to go full time as a long term goal. Obviously they need to get on a sound financial footing first before attempting to move forward and even then it should be done slowly with teams not spending beyond their means.