Aengus Ó Snodaigh (of Sinn Fein) & his Goebbels/ Nazi/ Israeli outburst

Allah Hu Akbar

Het-Field wrote: »

I thought it was the point of the thread i.e if Sinn Fein could take a moral high ground on this situation. Remember, they are an organisation which were capable of some pig headed strategy, or at very least guilty of endorsing such strategy.

I feel that Mr O Snodaigh is convinced that he is the only pro-gaza advocate around. He is forgetting that most of Ireland, including myself would consider Israel's actions as disproportionate, but not necessairly unjustified. I would like to know if he blindly supports the Hamas offensive, and whether the actions of these extremists is acceptable. Unequivocable support for Hamas, or Hezbollah (when discussing Lebanon) is equally reprehensible. It is not as though they dont have innocent blood on their hands.

The Irish News 14/01/09

Letters

Since December 27 the world’s media has rightly focused on the humanitarian tragedy unfolding in Gaza.

But the current situation is merely an escalation of a humanitarian crisis of acute proportions that has been ongoing for some time.

I witnessed this crisis first-hand when I visited Gaza last November.

Each successive humanitarian crisis has its roots in the illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel.

The focus of the international community must be on introducing a lasting solution that addresses the source of the problem.

Recent Israeli actions amount to genocide and should be responded to as such.

We are witnessing a cynical campaign of slaughter by a belligerent state for electoral purposes. The future safety of Israeli citizens has not in any way been enhanced by their invasion of Gaza and the indiscriminate bombing of schools, houses, mosques etc.

There is an urgent need for the Irish government and all other governments to demand:

- the immediate withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Gaza and the cessation of military action

- the opening of Gaza’s international borders to allow the entrance of full humanitarian aid, fuel and other blocked supplies and to enable the commerce that is essential to its sustainable wellbeing

- Israeli payment for reconstruction and the payment of reparations to affected families targeted by Israel in this current onslaught

- Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian waters and the cessation of naval attacks on local fishermen

- the dismantling of all illegal settlements in occupied Palestinian territories and;

- an end to rocket fire aimed at Israeli towns.

These demands must be backed by concrete action. Failure to comply on Israel’s part must result in diplomatic ostracisation, economic sanctions, boycott and the convening of international criminal courts to investigate and prosecute Israeli war crimes without further delay.

Aengus O Snodaigh TD Leinster House, Dublin 2


"Blood on his hands" When was Angus convicted of murder?

FTA69

Meh big deal to be honest. It's not a comment I would make myself but the furore over it is a load of auld waffle to be honest; if that's the worst thing said to Shatter during the course of his political career then he should count himself lucky. It was an offhand comment based on the fact that Shatter and the ambassador were engaging in negative propaganda tactics; you'd swear he started goose-stepping around Leinster House with a swastika armband the way people are going on. Front page of the Irish Times? In all fairness like...

The thing that annoyed the sh*t out of me was the ambassador's comment that Ireland never had to fight an external threat, Ireland was fighting external threats centuries before Israel even existed.

FTA69

"Blood on his hands" When was Angus convicted of murder?

He wasn't, Aengus is a sound fella with a long record of community activism. The above comment by your man was simply typical of the hyperbolic whinging some people on here like to engage in.

mike65

Always a laugh when a republican draws such an analogy bearing in mind the IRA flirtation with the real Nazis in the 1930s and 40s.

Het-Field

I never said a word about "blood on his hands". I was speaking about Hezbollah and Hamas.

I cant believe that Sinn Fein apologists are illiterate too.

FTA69

mike65 wrote: »

Always a laugh when a republican draws such an analogy bearing in mind the IRA flirtation with the real Nazis in the 1930s and 40s.

It's an even bigger laugh when Fine Gael have a moan about Nazi remarks considering they evolved out of an actual fascist organisation. While Republicans were dying in Spain in the fight against fascism Fine Gael's forerunners were off embarassing themselves fighting for bloody Franco.

A Dub in Glasgo

mike65 wrote: »

Always a laugh when a republican draws such an analogy bearing in mind the IRA flirtation with the real Nazis in the 1930s and 40s.

Blueshirts anyone? or is that too subtle for some?

mike65

It should be noted that Fine Girl came into existance in 1933 and Eoin O'Duffy went off to do his own whacky thing. O'Duffy was of course a member of the IRA and a Sinn Fein TD previously.

kpbdublin

I would have thought Sinn Fein would find more in common with Dr Goebbels. Didn't they have once have a habit of beating up or shooting their opponents, or am I mixing them with another organisation?
The black beret/black shirt combos also gave them a certain fascist air.
Now of course they are all very nice and are in government with that frightfully jolly chap, Ian Paisley.

A Dub in Glasgo

mike65 wrote: »

It should be noted that Fine Girl came into existance in 1933 and Eoin O'Duffy went off to do his own whacky thing. O'Duffy was of course a member of the IRA and a Sinn Fein TD previously.

Yeah and O'Duffy was President of FG. Listen if you are going to try and link the current guys in SF to the previous guys of the 30's/40's then you cannot deny somebody linking the current complainers in FG to the FG of the 30's/40's

If you want to go back to the creation fo the state, then every political party/person can be compared to SF & the IRA!

A Dub in Glasgo

kpbdublin wrote: »

I would have thought Sinn Fein would find more in common with Dr Goebbels.

Propaganda is everywhere or do you think political parties are impartial?

Didn't they have once have a habit of beating up or shooting their opponents, or am I mixing them with another organisation?

I am not aware of SF carrying out those acts, maybe you can reference some evidence?

CDfm

Funnily enough when Alan Shatter was Minister for Justice he reformed family law making it easier for some people,mainly women,to abuse the family courts and have men removed from their homes on the basis of ex-parte orders without due process.

Some pundits dubbed this "Shattered by Shatter" and it has been compared elsewhere to Nazi tactics.

Interestingly - he published his own book on Irish Family Law called something like Shatters Family Law and his Law Firm specialises in the law he wrote.

I would have liked to see SF complain about that.

Allah Hu Akbar

kpbdublin wrote: »

I would have thought Sinn Fein would find more in common with Dr Goebbels. Didn't they have once have a habit of beating up or shooting their opponents, or am I mixing them with another organisation?
The black beret/black shirt combos also gave them a certain fascist air.
Now of course they are all very nice and are in government with that frightfully jolly chap, Ian Paisley.

Oh jesus your a right funny chap.

Believe it not the IRA had loads of support, let's face the facts. Things like Bloody Sunday gave rise for the IRA (While yet today are regarded as terrorists yet we all know they weren't) things like this created the IRA. You seem to forget catholics been burnt out their homes (thousands of them before the IRA even set-up)

The IRA are freedom fighters, there was a time for war, but now have went down the right root the gun are gone, don't forget if you voted for the agreement you also voted for loyalists to put dowe theirs, has that happened yet? Do you not think catholics are afraid of loyalist attacks?

The IRA dropped their arms and went down the right path give them some credit or would you rather the war back?

The IRA never murdered on the scales of the current situation. Over 1,000 dead in 19 days get that in your head, they planted and gave warnings for the big ones that could of killed loads (Manchester for example) yes they done alot wrong but both sides have, look up abit of info about RUC helping loyalists to murder catholics, look at the facts.

Sand

“propaganda, twisted logic and half truths”

A Provo TD would be an expert on that I suppose.

Honestly, the Provos never cease to amaze me with their brass neck. They cant even admit abducting a mother of ten, torturing her, executing her and then burying her in an unmarked grave - denying her family the chance of a proper funeral - is in anyway wrong.

TOMASJ

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (of Sinn Fein) & his Goebbels/ Nazi/ Israeli outburst

The truth hurts,
Good for you Aengus O Snodaigh you said what the vast majority of people in Ireland think of the "Terrorist Rouge State of Israel"

Liam Byrne

Should Ó Snodaigh be throwing (metaphorical) stones at anyone, given Sinn Feins refusal to condemn many of the atrocities carried out by the IRA during the 35 years of the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland . . .

Have to say that it's pretty ironic that someone who previously condoned bombing people that he disagreed with now comes out strongly against that approach.

Mind you, it's to be expected; I nearly choked one day when Mary Lou McDonald was campaigning against Lisbon on "The Last Word" and said that people were worried about a European army having authority in Ireland, when they hadn't wanted or voted for it, and that it wouldn't be welcome..... :eek:

Leave out the word "European" and you've got some SERIOUS irony there!!!

Allah Hu Akbar wrote:

The IRA dropped their arms and went down the right path give them some credit or would you rather the war back?

They should never have had the arms in the first place!!! If someone stole stuff from your house (injuring or maybe even killing people in the process), would you fawn all over them and be grateful if they gave them back ?

The IRA crossed the line between "fighting back" or "defending" (understandable) and killed loads of innocent people - THAT'S where they went wrong and THAT'S why people hate them.

If you're attacked on the street, it's perfectly understandable that you want to defend yourself, and you're perfectly entitled to; you are not entitled to hurt or kill innocent bystanders and loads of other people indiscriminately, or leave bombs on the street to kill more, not caring about who they are.

It's also odd that there seems to be a lot more outcry about Israel's actions than there were about America's actions.....both are despicable, and both should be condemned.

But in this case O'Snodaigh's comments are like hearing Bill Clinton criticise someone for having a sexual affair.

marcsignal

mike65 wrote: »

Always a laugh when a republican draws such an analogy bearing in mind the IRA flirtation with the real Nazis in the 1930s and 40s.

yeah mike, and the future president of the US 'a black man' is about to flirtate with the 'new nazis' who happen to be jews in the ME, you could cut the irony with a spoon couldn't you....

Happy Monday

What about the young children of Warrington murdered by the IRA?

O'Snodaigh justifies these actions as part of war.

Israel can play the same card!!

CCCP^

I believe in free speech and everyone is entitled to it no matter what they are saying.

RayM

It was a horrible and unpleasant comment - particularly coming from someone like Angus Snoddy - who is obviously in no position to moralise or to lecture Alan Shatter. Although, I must admit, upon reading Zion Evrony's recent articles in the Irish Times, I did have to restrain myself from sending Madam a letter, enquiring whether, during the second World War, the Irish Times had given the German propaganda minister a similar opportunity to air his views.

Pride Fighter

mike65 wrote: »

Always a laugh when a republican draws such an analogy bearing in mind the IRA flirtation with the real Nazis in the 1930s and 40s.

What about Fine Gael's even bigger flirtation with the Nazi's in the 30's.

A Dub in Glasgo

Happy Monday wrote: »

Israel can play the same card!!

Israel & The US has already played that card many many times

Serenity Now!

I found it laughably ironic that a Sinn Féin representitive of all people would come out with a hypcritical statement like that given the amount of blood on the hands on their racketeering and murderous other half.

Irish politicians of whatever standing have a nerve to state anything of a kind pertaining to the Nazi party given the Dail and its parties' behaviour and actions during the 30s and 40s.

Cue the Provisional IRA 'apologists' (well, its a buzz word these days isn't it?).

Hypocrites.

jank

Honestly, the Provos never cease to amaze me with their brass neck. They cant even admit abducting a mother of ten, torturing her, executing her and then burying her in an unmarked grave - denying her family the chance of a proper funeral - is in anyway wrong.

The Jean McConville retort yet again. Its like a broken record at this stage. One can very easily say the RUC/UVF/ British Army did this or that but what would be the point of that apart from bringing this topic off course.
Repeat and Rinse..

Zebra3

RayM wrote: »

It was a horrible and unpleasant comment - particularly coming from someone like Angus Snoddy - who is obviously in no position to moralise or to lecture Alan Shatter.

It was truthful.

The likes of Shatter and the rest of the so-called political establishment were more than happy to have the Americans stopping off here while on one or another of their murdering crusades so how the likes of him can take the moral high ground on anything is beyond me....

Húrin

To be honest I think it needed to be said, ugly as it may sound. Snodaigh is right not to apologise.

Het-Field

Húrin wrote: »

To be honest I think it needed to be said, ugly as it may sound. Snodaigh is right not to apologise.

I agree. However, this does not give him the moral leeway to preach from a pulpit on atrocities.

LordSutch

Húrin wrote: »

To be honest I think it needed to be said, ugly as it may sound. Snodaigh is right not to apologise.

But should a Nazi analogy have been made by O'Snodaigh of all people? thats the nub of the argument.

In my opinion I find it grossly indecent & hypocritical for a member of Sinn Fein (of all parties) to direct Nazi/ Goebbels comments at anybody, I mean talk about brass necks! O'Snodaigh/ McDonald & the rest of the ex-terrorist movement should refrain from hurling insults which could just as easly be heaped on their own movement.

Some posters memories are very short indeed, or maybe they are just too young to remember? what the IRA/Sinn Fein actually did to people by way of mass murder (just a decade or two ago)! so to all you Pro-O'Snogaigh, Pro-IRA, Pro-Sinn Feiners, just remember the movement O'Snodaigh represents.

See: Car Bombings, Murders, Shootings, Pub Bombings, Extortion, Bank Robberies, Knee cappings, The disappeared, The exiled, the dismembered, the disabled, Hotel bombings etc etc etc ...................

I say that Shinners should think twice before pointing the finger with Nazi jibes.

Nodin

Camelot wrote: »

But should a Nazi analogy have been made by O'Snodaigh of all people? thats the nub of the argument.

In my opinion I find it grossly indecent & hypocritical for a member of Sinn Fein (of all parties) to direct Nazi/ Goebbels comments at anybody, I mean talk about brass necks! O'Snodaigh/ McDonald & the rest of the ex-terrorist movement should refrain from hurling insults which could just as easly be heaped on their own movement.

Some posters memories are very short indeed, or maybe they are just too young to remember? what the IRA/Sinn Fein actually did to people by way of mass murder (just a decade or two ago)! so to all you Pro-O'Snogaigh, Pro-IRA, Pro-Sinn Feiners, just remember the movement O'Snodaigh represents.

See: Car Bombings, Murders, Shootings, Pub Bombings, Extortion, Bank Robberies, Knee cappings, The disappeared, The exiled, the dismembered, the disabled, Hotel bombings etc etc etc ...................

.

But even if all thats true, that doesn't mean he was wrong on this particular issue. And I might add that 'Dr Goebbels' shouldn't be taken as meaning 'You're a nazi thug'. Its quite literally putting a cloak of respectability over brutality - propoganda.

Whats gone on over there over 40 years is far, far worse than what was experienced up the north, and I say that as a Republican. We haven't experienced that level of repression for the last two centuries in this country. For somebody to sit there and try to dress over that is to invite the extreme comparison that O'Snodaigh came out with.

And as a general point, coming out with "terrorist" is rather pointless. Many of the founding fathers of Israeli politics used "terrorism" and were as harsh if not harsher than any incarnation of the RA in their methods. In that regard nobody there can get on the high horse (not that that stops them....)

marcsignal

Camelot wrote: »

But should a Nazi analogy have been made by O'Snodaigh of all people? thats the nub of the argument.

well, if the same comment was made by Senator David Norris would that be ok ? considering he is a homosexual, and homosexuals were persecuted by the nazis. In fact Senator Norris has already made nazi analogies comparing Gaza with the Warsaw Ghetto.

Are the people concerned simply offended with being compared to nazis? or just that the person who made the comparison happens to be a Shinner ?