Aengus Ó Snodaigh (of Sinn Fein) & his Goebbels/ Nazi/ Israeli outburst

LordSutch · 15-01-2009 2:05pm

I just think that - Nazi - Goebbels - Ethnic Cleansing comments should be measured & not thrown around lightly (specially by some people)!

I would not agree with Senator Norris making Nazi comments either, but the use of Joseph Goebbels by a mamber of Sinn Fein is just grating & hypocritical.

Names like NAZI or Gobbels should be avoided in my opinion.

marcsignal · 15-01-2009 2:15pm

Camelot wrote: »

Names like NAZI or Gobbels should be avoided in my opinion.

then maybe you should start by writing a stiff letter to the israeli ambassador.

The Israelies themselves have consistantly compared their critics and enemies to nazis, jew haters, holocaust deniers, and hitler himself, particularlly since the early 1970's.

It would seem that it's ok for them to do it, and drag in the nazi holocaust to justify their actions, every time they do something utterly unspeakable in the Middle East to boot, but it's 'not kosher' when anyone else does it ??

LordSutch · 15-01-2009 2:34pm

marcsignal wrote: »

The Israelies themselves have consistantly compared their critics and enemies to nazis, jew haters, holocaust deniers, and hitler himself, particularlly since the early 1970's.

It would seem that it's ok for them to do it, and drag in the nazi holocaust to justify their actions, every time they do something utterly unspeakable in the Middle East to boot, but it's 'not kosher' when anyone else does it ??

Its certainly 'not Kosher' when a member of an Irish ex-terrorist movement does it!

Serenity Now! · 15-01-2009 2:43pm

marcsignal wrote: »

well, if the same comment was made by Senator David Norris would that be ok ? considering he is a homosexual, and homosexuals were persecuted by the nazis

How would he and they do in Gaza?

Erin Go Brath · 15-01-2009 2:47pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Yeah and O'Duffy was President of FG. Listen if you are going to try and link the current guys in SF to the previous guys of the 30's/40's then you cannot deny somebody linking the current complainers in FG to the FG of the 30's/40's

If you want to go back to the creation fo the state, then every political party/person can be compared to SF & the IRA!

This was turning into a great Shinner bashing fest thread until you showed up with your logic and reasoning.

Aengus was spot on with his comments as he most often is. This thread is just the usual whataboutery from the usual cranks who find it easier to attack a public representative, (especially an SF one) than address the substantive issue at hand. Pathetic!

marcsignal · 15-01-2009 3:08pm

Camelot wrote: »

Its certainly 'not Kosher' when a member of an Irish ex-terrorist movement does it!

but this is my question, which is the bigger deal here? the fact that a nazi analogy has been made? or the fact that it was made by by a Sinn Fein TD? who, in my opinion, did so in a very general, and clumsy way.
It would seem, that the dissenters here are more concerned with 'Shinner Bashing' than defending the integrity of the Israeli Ambassador and Alan Shatter. So which is it ??

Serenity Now! wrote: »

How would he and they do in Gaza?

I don't understand your point Serenity Now!

LordSutch · 15-01-2009 3:19pm

This was my opening Post/Question on Page One;

"This Thread is NOT about your leanings one way or the other (Pro Hamas) or (Pro Israeli), but rather "Should representitives from Sinn Fein expect to get away with pontificating to & comparing others to Goebbels & the Nazi's" ? and Should Ó Snodaigh be throwing (metaphorical) stones at anyone, given Sinn Feins refusal to condemn many of the atrocities carried out by the IRA during the 35 years of the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland" . . .

And my own answer to my own question is NO, representitives from Sinn Fein should not be pontificating or throwing (metaphorical) stones on this issue > especially when 'Nazi/Goebbels' comparrisons are used.

marcsignal · 15-01-2009 3:31pm

Camelot wrote: »

And my own answer to my own question is NO, representitives from Sinn Fein should not be pontificating or throwing (metaphorical) stones on this issue > especially when 'Nazi/Goebbels' comparrisons are used.

well then we are teetering towards some common ground. I accept that there is a degree of hiprocracy in the fact that the analogy was made by Aengus Ó Snodaigh, considering he has had a 'rather colourful' past, to say the least. However I think the same hiprocracy charge, in my opinion, could be levelled at the Israeli Ambassador and his Government. They have, as I already pointed out, compared their critics to nazis many many times in the past, and yet the IDF do things in the M.E. which are worthy of nothing less than comparison with the actions of the nazi Waffen SS.

OhNoYouDidn't · 15-01-2009 5:38pm

I'm a little confused.

Is the issue that the Israeli Ambassador (who very bizzarly said Ireland was "lucky with its neighbours" and didn't have to raise arms against them - you would almost swear he was reading from a script) was comparred to Goebbels in terms of the crude propaganda he is spreading or that a Sinn Fein representitive made the claim?

Angus O'Snodaigh in particular, and republicans in general, have a longstanding history of sympathy for the Palestiinain people for obvious reasons. Did people honestly expect that double act to spin and no reacton be forthcoming from the deputy?

OhNoYouDidn't · 15-01-2009 5:42pm

Camelot wrote: »

And my own answer to my own question is NO, representitives from Sinn Fein should not be pontificating or throwing (metaphorical) stones on this issue > especially when 'Nazi/Goebbels' comparrisons are used.

Did he make a 'Nazi' comparison per say?

To compare someone to Goebbels is standard English when they are defending cold blooded murder by a military of a civilain populace in the name of racial ideology.

Sinn Fein are perfectly entitled to comment here. The question of why Sen. Norris is not getting the same stick, or any of the other correspondents who have made similar statements has yet to be addressed.

meditraitor · 15-01-2009 5:46pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

To compare someone to Goebbels is standard English when they are defending cold blooded murder by a military of a civilain populace in the name of racial ideology.
.

What he said.......

José Alaninho · 15-01-2009 5:53pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The question of why Sen. Norris is not getting the same stick, or any of the other correspondents who have made similar statements has yet to be addressed.

Simple really;it's going on since the party's founding - any excuse to do a bit of Shinner bashing.

OhNoYouDidn't · 15-01-2009 6:02pm

José Alaninho wrote: »

Simple really;it's going on since the party's founding - any excuse to do a bit of Shinner bashing.

Exactly. So people are willing to use the harrowing scenes in Gaza to score cheap domestic political points. People need to take a long hard look at themselves.

I am neither a FF or SF man, but I welcome Chris Andrews, Angus O'Snodaigh and to an extent the Minister who stood up and made a stand. Fair play to them all. And to an extent Shatter, while I fundamentally disagree with him, who will lose votes taking a stand on his beliefs.

marcsignal · 15-01-2009 6:09pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The question of why Sen. Norris is not getting the same stick, or any of the other correspondents who have made similar statements has yet to be addressed.

I've been trying to get an answer to that one too OhNoYouDidn't, in fact i've asked the question twice here to no avail, apart from Camelot who did provide his opinion, kind of.

I wonder are the same people who are quick to attack Aengus Ó Snodaigh afraid to attack Senator David Norris for fear of being labeled 'Homophobic' :cool:

OhNoYouDidn't · 15-01-2009 6:14pm

marcsignal wrote: »

I've been trying to get an answer to that one too OhNoYouDidn't, in fact i've asked the question twice here to no avail, apart from Camelot who did provide his opinion, kind of.

I wonder are the same people who are quick to attack Aengus Ó Snodaigh afraid to attack Senator David Norris for fear of being labeled 'Homophobic' :cool:

Possibly, but I think its maybe more simple.

I think people will take any opportunity to attack SF for the most contrived reasons. No need to have a go at Norris as he is an independent.

I guarantee you if this was a Labour deputy who made this statement there would have been a fraction of the reaction.

José Alaninho · 15-01-2009 6:16pm

It's been happening since the dawn of politics really. It's simply the nature of the beast; any newsworthy event on which your opponent takes a stance is a chance to attack your said political opponent(s). If we weren't so used to it I'd really care more about this pathetically, blatantly provocative thread :rolleyes: People are all too fond of playing 'bait the shinners' on this board IMO.

marcsignal · 15-01-2009 6:30pm

Well ok, how about this:

From what I can make out, it would seem that it's ok for Senator David Norris to make nazi analogies about Israel, because he appears to be a nice gentleman who is well spoken, and has an impecable political career. However it's not ok for Aengus Ó Snodaigh to make similar analogies about Israel, because he appears to be a dubious gouger, with a chequered political career and a flat Dublin accent.

would that be about right?? anyone ???

José Alaninho · 15-01-2009 6:32pm

marcsignal wrote: »

Well ok, how about this:

From what I can make out, it would seem that it's ok for Senator David Norris to make nazi analogies about Israel, because he appears to be a nice gentleman who is well spoken, and has an impecable political carreer. However it's not ok for Aengus Ó Snodaigh to make similar analogies about Israel, because he appears to be a dubious gouger, with a chequered political carreer and a flat Dublin accent.

would that be about right?? anyone ???

Sounds about the gist of it....

OhNoYouDidn't · 15-01-2009 6:33pm

marcsignal wrote: »

Well ok, how about this:

From what I can make out, it would seem that it's ok for Senator David Norris to make nazi analogies about Israel, because he appears to be a nice gentleman who is well spoken, and has an impecable political carreer. However it's not ok for Aengus Ó Snodaigh to make similar analogies about Israel, because he appears to be a dubious gouger, with a chequered political carreer and a flat Dublin accent.

would that be about right?? anyone ???

I must disagree. The issue here does not appear to be the actual substance of what Dep. Ó'Snodaigh said, rather 'how dare he' on the basis of his party allegience.

FTA69 · 15-01-2009 6:35pm

marcsignal wrote: »

I accept that there is a degree of hiprocracy in the fact that the analogy was made by Aengus Ó Snodaigh, considering he has had a 'rather colourful' past, to say the least.

Has he? News to me to be honest, what do you mean by that?

Mr.Micro · 15-01-2009 6:35pm

marcsignal wrote: »

Well ok, how about this:

From what I can make out, it would seem that it's ok for Senator David Norris to make nazi analogies about Israel, because he appears to be a nice gentleman who is well spoken, and has an impecable political carreer. However it's not ok for Aengus Ó Snodaigh to make similar analogies about Israel, because he appears to be a dubious gouger, with a chequered political carreer and a flat Dublin accent.

would that be about right?? anyone ???

I agree, and if that were the case Mr. O Snodaigh has the pedigree to call spade a spade, and recognize the actions of Israel for what they are.

dlofnep · 15-01-2009 6:39pm

He compared their levels of propaganda. And he is correct. The media's portrayl of this as usual, anti-SF. What Ó Snodaigh said was absolutely, 100% fine.

José Alaninho · 15-01-2009 6:39pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I must disagree. The issue here does not appear to be the actual substance of what Dep. Ó'Snodaigh said, rather 'how dare he' on the basis of his party allegience.

Sorry, that was actually closer to the mark.

Edit: And i would also like to know about Mr. O'Snodaigh's 'colourful past'. Has he ever actually been convicted of a crime? (And no, being a republican is not a crime despite what some people feel)

CDfm · 15-01-2009 6:43pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I agree, and if that were the case Mr. O Snodaigh has the pedigree to call spade a spade, and recognize the actions of Israel for what they are.

AS I posted before in Alan Shatters situation he is very well spoken and really well qualified-and as a Minister he passed a lot of legislation without safeguards as I posted previously and will reiterate

Funnily enough when Alan Shatter was Minister for Justice he reformed family law making it easier for some people,mainly women,to abuse the family courts and have men removed from their homes on the basis of ex-parte orders without due process.

Some pundits dubbed this "Shattered by Shatter" and it has been compared elsewhere to Nazi tactics.

Interestingly - he published his own book on Irish Family Law called something like Shatters Family Law and his Law Firm specialises in the law he wrote.

I would have liked to see SF complain about that.

José Alaninho · 15-01-2009 6:47pm

CDfm wrote: »

I would have liked to see SF complain about that.

Well given that this event was specifically aimed at discussing Israel's role in the current conflict in Gaza, do you not think that would have been going off topic a tad?

marcsignal · 15-01-2009 7:00pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Has he? News to me to be honest, what do you mean by that?

Well to be honest i was just referring to the fact he is a very active member of a political party which has had close links with the IRA. I wasn't trying to say anything deragotary about him personally, i don't know him and have never met him.

I have to also say, that i have no issue with what he said either, i think his analogy is accurate, as is David Norris's.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I must disagree. The issue here does not appear to be the actual substance of what Dep. Ó'Snodaigh said, rather 'how dare he' on the basis of his party allegience.

but thats what i meant, it seems it's ok for Norris to do it, but not for Ó'Snodaigh, because he's a member of Sinn Fein.

CDfm · 15-01-2009 7:16pm

José Alaninho wrote: »

Well given that this event was specifically aimed at discussing Israel's role in the current conflict in Gaza, do you not think that would have been going off topic a tad?

My point is that Alan Shatter has a political record and he and his ministerial colleague Nora Owen used this to further the aghenda of an organisation,Womens Aid, which if I am not mistaken either she and/or her sister Mary Banotti were patrons and which has a misandrist aghenda.His legal firm would have also appeared to have prospered.

However, much I dislike Mr O'Snodaighs politics, he nonetheless has precedent to further the aghenda of a people he has an affiliation to and criticize another politician who also has used his affiliations for political and proffessional advantage.

I think Aongas O'Snodaigh has every right to make strong comments if he disapproves of Alan Shatters views. And why not -its about time someone did.

marcsignal · 15-01-2009 7:34pm

CDfm wrote: »

I think Aongas O'Snodaigh has every right to make strong comments if he disapproves of Alan Shatters views. And why not -its about time someone did.

I agree, but i have something to add to that, and I'm taking a bit of a risk saying it, but i'm going to say it anyway.

Holocaust Memorial Day is coming up on January 27th. I think that if this madness and slaughter going on in Gaza is still happening by that date, any of our Government Ministers invited to attend, including our President, should show the kind of balls that Aengus Ó Snodaigh has, and refuse to attend, as a mark of respect to the people being subjected to the new Israeli Holocaust in Gaza.

José Alaninho · 15-01-2009 7:37pm

marcsignal wrote: »

I agree, but i have something to add to that, and I'm taking a bit of a risk saying it, but i'm going to say it anyway.

Holocaust Memorial Day is coming upon January 27th. I think that if this madness and slaughter going on in Gaza is still happenning by that date, any of our Government Ministers invited to attend, including our President, should refuse to do so, as a mark of respect to the people being subjected to the new Israeli Holocaust in Gaza.

Very well said. But the dogs in the street know they won't; too afraid to upset the apple cart. Our politicians don't have the moral courage for such actions as you or I.

Serenity Now! · 15-01-2009 8:07pm

marcsignal wrote: »

Holocaust Memorial Day is coming up on January 27th. I think that if this madness and slaughter going on in Gaza is still happening by that date, any of our Government Ministers invited to attend, including our President, should show the kind of balls that Aengus Ó Snodaigh has, and refuse to attend, as a mark of respect to the people being subjected to the new Israeli Holocaust in Gaza.

Well it would be typical anyway. Not the first time the Irish govt would have turned a blind eye on or washed their hands of the holocaust.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (of Sinn Fein) & his Goebbels/ Nazi/ Israeli outburst

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