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Aengus Ó Snodaigh (of Sinn Fein) & his Goebbels/ Nazi/ Israeli outburst

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    #122
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Most people are more worried about the killings of 300+ children, than Ó Snodaigh's comparison of propaganda. You are once again having another bash at Republicans on boards Camelot. Where's your thread to condemn the mindless slaughter of 100's of Palestinian civilians? Oh that's right - There is none, as it doesn't give you a medium to bash Republicanism.


    I think Camelot is Kevin Myers in disguise....:D:D


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    #123
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Camelot wrote: »
    If O'Snodaigh had used Strong but (measured language) then it would have had far more clout & diplomatic weight behind it, but conjuring up the spectre of Joseph Goebbels (of all people) is not just over the top, but it devalues the thrust of his argument, it also devalues his standing as a serious politician.

    I think O'Snodaigh should retract his Nazi/Goebbels comment (and rephrase it).
    I dont think so because people like Alan Shatter only understand such language and grand stands on a lot of issues. If this broadside has knocked him off his pedestal and tarnished him a bit -its well deserved.


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    #124
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    If O'Snodaigh had used Strong but (measured language) then it would have had far more clout & diplomatic weight behind it, but conjuring up the spectre of Joseph Goebbels (of all people) is not just over the top, but it devalues the thrust of his argument, it also devalues his standing as a serious politician.

    I think O'Snodaigh should retract his Nazi/Goebbels comment (and rephrase it).


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    #125
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Still waiting on your thread to condemn the mindless killings of civilians by Israeli forces Camelot..


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    #126
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,205 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Camelot wrote: »
    If O'Snodaigh had used Strong but (measured language) then it would have had far more clout & diplomatic weight behind it, but conjuring up the spectre of Joseph Goebbels (of all people) is not just over the top, but it devalues the thrust of his argument, it also devalues his standing as a serious politician.

    I think O'Snodaigh should retract his Nazi/Goebbels comment (and rephrase it).

    Dear God man, get over it. Ó Snodaigh has the balls to condemn the Israeli slaughter in Gaza, unlike a lot of people in diplomatic circles and some serious (sic) politicians.


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    #127
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    CDfm wrote: »
    If this broadside has knocked shatter off his pedestal and tarnished him a bit -its well deserved.

    But it hasnt, all its done is to make O'Snodaigh look lightweight & lacking in verbal dexterity.


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    #128
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    kmick wrote: »
    To be fair to Aengus O Snodaigh I think he was referring to Goebbels use of propaganda and spin to turn any piece of information into a version of the truth which suits your purpose. He was the inventor of these types of spins.

    I believe you are bang on there. In terms of context, I believe that is exactly what he meant, and I suggested this in post #30
    kmick wrote: »
    However on the other side of things Aengus reminds me of a very ugly irish version of Mohammad Ali while under the influence of the nation of Islam. He says lots of things he may not necessarily understand because he heard it from someone and it sounded true.

    yeah, i certainly don't think he is very well versed at all in the nazi movement, other than being vaguely aware of Dr Joseph Goebbels and his role in it.


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    #129
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Still waiting on your thread to condemn the mindless killings of civilians by Israeli forces Camelot..

    I'd rather keep my replies on Topic.


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    #130
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    marcsignal wrote: »
    yeah, i certainly don't think he is very well versed at all in the nazi movement, other than being vaguely aware of Dr Joseph Goebbels and his role in it.

    Really - I imagine he actually is and used his words precisely.


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    #131
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Camelot wrote: »
    But it hasnt, all its done is to make O'Snodaigh look lightweight & lacking in verbal dexterity.

    I disagree. His reply was clearly borne out of the frustration of failing to get resonable answers out of an ambassador who told us we were "lucky with our neighbours" and "never had to raise arms". He was deliberatly untruthful to a Dail committee (which is an insult to the house and indeed the nation) and obtuse, and I think the Goebbels phrase is apt.

    There is, of course, the comparing of a Jewish man (and he would have to be as Israel is a racist state) which allows people like your good self entirely ignore what Deputy O'Snodaigh said and concentrate on the semantics, which is unfortunate.

    For the record I am not a SF man.


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    #132
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Camelot wrote: »
    But it hasnt, all its done is to make O'Snodaigh look lightweight & lacking in verbal dexterity.


    How?

    He got his point across perfectly. Everybody knows exactly what he meant.

    Would you be more satisfied if he dressed the point up in nice fuzzy diplomatic speak? Which would have gone completely unnoticed.


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    #133
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    marcsignal wrote: »
    I believe you are bang on there. In terms of context, I believe that is exactly what he meant, and I suggested this in post #30
    marcsignal wrote: »
    yeah, i certainly don't think he is very well versed at all in the nazi movement, other than being vaguely aware of Dr Joseph Goebbels and his role in it.

    you have managed to entirely contradict yourself in the space on one post.

    impressive.


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    #134
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Camelot wrote: »
    I'd rather keep my replies on Topic.

    You mean you'd rather bash Sinn Féin, rather than actually make a point. I wonder if this had of been a Fine Gael TD - would you have still created the thread? My guess is probably not.


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    #135
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    partyguinness wrote: »
    How?

    He got his point across perfectly. Everybody knows exactly what he meant.

    Would you be more satisfied if he dressed the point up in nice fuzzy diplomatic speak? Which would have gone completely unnoticed.

    Evidence of this, is this thread and its been in the papers, so I would agree that his point was made and taken effectively.


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    #136
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    The Saint wrote: »
    Anyway, no one should invoke the Nazi's and the holocaust to make arguements for their side. It's a cheap tactic used to deflect from the realities and changes the focus of attention from these realities into squabbles like this about who said what.

    Balancing what O Snodaigh said with the many times I hear various Israeli representatives get on the air and call whatever resistance to their occupation as "genocide" I can see where he is coming from.
    From the context it seems he is saying that Shatter was using a propoganda tactic that Goering spellled out at the Nuremberg trials. Many governments use this tactic and none so successfully as the US, Uk and Israel as of late.
    So I think it's fair and apt what he said in this context. He didn't call anyone a Nazi as seems to be suggested by Shatter et al's response to the comment.


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    #137
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    CDfm wrote: »
    Really - I imagine he actually is and used his words precisely.

    do you think ? I can't see why he'd be bothered, tbh he doesn't strike me as someone who'd have much interest in it, but i could be wrong.


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    #138
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    marcsignal wrote: »
    do you think ? I can't see why he'd be bothered, tbh he doesn't strike me as someone who'd have much interest in it, but i could be wrong.

    You are.

    He spent time in Palestine as recently as last November. Besides, Republicans have always had a relationship with the Palestine and its resistance movements.

    Sometimes it really is better to say nothing.


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    #139
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    you have managed to entirely contradict yourself in the space on one post.

    impressive.

    how so ? the point i was making was that i believed Aengus Ó Snodaigh wasn't well versed in the nazi movement, other than to know that goebells did the propaganda, and did it very well, and that in that respect his analogy was bang on.

    or didn't it come over that way ??
    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    You are.

    He spent time in Palestine as recently as last November. Besides, Republicans have always had a relationship with the Palestine and its resistance movements.

    Sometimes it really is better to say nothing.

    i think you need to read posts more carefully, we were discussing his interest in the nazi movement, NOT the Palestinian movement

    ;)


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    #140
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    dlofnep wrote: »
    You mean you'd rather bash Sinn Féin, rather than actually make a point. I wonder if this had of been a Fine Gael TD - would you have still created the thread? My guess is probably not.

    I refuse to go for your bait, all my replies have been to the point on Topic, I will not get into a slagging match with you dlofnep.

    O'Snodaigh comes across to me as a bit of an oaf, I have heard him many times on the TV & on Radio, he's clumsy in what he says and the way he puts himself across, after this episode he will be even more devalued (by other Parties) in the Dail.

    P.S. I am not above Criticizing the Israeli's, but I just find any Nazi jibe galling (specially coming from a member if Sinn Fein).


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    #141
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Camelot wrote: »
    I refuse to go for your bait, all my replies have been to the point on Topic, I will not get into a slagging match with you dlofnep.

    O'Snodaigh comes across to me as a bit of an oaf, I have heard him many times on the TV & on Radio, he's clumsy in what he says and the way he puts himself across, after this episode he will be even more devalued (by other Parties) in the Dail.

    P.S. I am not above Criticizing the Israeli's, but I just find any Nazi jibe galling (specially coming from a member if Sinn Fein).


    Thats stretching the truth, Camelot

    In the thread about the 1916 Rising you tried to start a debate about Irish soldiers in the Somme in WWI totally off point.


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    #142
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    marcsignal wrote: »
    how so ? the point i was making was that i believed Aengus Ó Snodaigh wasn't well versed in the nazi movement, other than to know that goebells did the propaganda, and did it very well, and that in that respect his analogy was bang on.

    or didn't it come over that way ??


    Angus O'Snodaigh is a professional politician and has been politically active on the lefy his whole life. I would be exceptionally surprised if he wasn't au fait with the third reich


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    #143
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Camelot wrote: »

    P.S. I am not above Criticizing the Israeli's, but I just find any Nazi jibe galling (specially coming from a member if Sinn Fein).

    why? they fought them in Spain. SF have been wary enough of the far right since the early 30's to take up arms against them, something other political traditions were not.


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    #144
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    Camelot wrote: »
    O'Snodaigh comes across to me as a bit of an oaf, I have heard him many times on the TV & on Radio, he's clumsy in what he says and the way he puts himself across....

    possibly, but maybe it was going to take an 'oaf' to blurt out what was said in order to provoke some debate on the matter. Other politicians seem to be happy to ring their hands and try to ignore the 'elephant in the corner of the room' that nobody wants to mention, namely the outrageous conduct of the Israelies, for fear of being labeled Anti-Semetic.


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    #145
    José Alaninho
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭José Alaninho


    FFS whether O'Snodaigh is a WWII historian or not is besides the point, regardless of the terminology / comparison used he was merely trying to convey his outrage at the fact that the Israelis are spreading outright lies about their actions in Gaza. Goebbels is merely one analogy that most if not all people can easily relate to.


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    #146
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Angus O'Snodaigh is a professional politician and has been politically active on the lefy his whole life. I would be exceptionally surprised if he wasn't au fait with the third reich

    Hold the phone here for a second, i wasn't suggesting Angus O'Snodaigh knows 'nothing' about the nazi movement, nor was i trying to suggest he was less than adept as a politician. Just that i couldn't see why he'd be arsed studying the intricies of nazism in depth, because when you dig deeper than the flags and parades, it was a very complex structure that looked ordered and organised on the outside, but was in fact totally disorganised and utterly chaotic on the inside. Any historian will tell you its a difficult one to study, and understand, for that very reason, because they were making it up as they went along. Most of the time, the left hand hadn't a clue what the right hand was doing . I would have thought, Angus O'Snodaigh, being left wing, would be too busy reading Karl Marks and other left wing litritature relevant to his political views, to have much time to bother with studying nazism, other than to have a basic working knowledge of it.

    but this is dragging us way off topic now in fairness, so lets just leave it there.


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    #147
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Camelot wrote: »
    I refuse to go for your bait, all my replies have been to the point on Topic, I will not get into a slagging match with you dlofnep.

    O'Snodaigh comes across to me as a bit of an oaf, I have heard him many times on the TV & on Radio, he's clumsy in what he says and the way he puts himself across, after this episode he will be even more devalued (by other Parties) in the Dail.

    P.S. I am not above Criticizing the Israeli's, but I just find any Nazi jibe galling (specially coming from a member if Sinn Fein).

    I'm not slagging you. I'm just pointing out the reasons for you creating this thread, to which I didn't feel were genuine, and were just another excuse to attack SF as a party.

    It's ok - We both know the truth of what's going on here.

    Ó Snodaigh is correct in his analysis. I stand by him 100%.


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    #148
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Ó Snodaigh is correct in his analysis. I stand by him 100%.

    so do I, and although i don't support his party and would never vote for him, I respect him for having the balls to say what he said.


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    #149
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    marcsignal wrote: »
    so do I, and although i don't support his party and would never vote for him, I respect him for having the balls to say what he said.

    That's ok. SF has my vote, but even if they didn't - I'd still stand by what he said.


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    #150
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Thats stretching the truth, Camelot

    In the thread about the 1916 Rising you tried to start a debate about Irish soldiers in the Somme in WWI totally off point.

    Well, the Somme did happen in 1916, anyway you ticked me off, and I exited the other thread ............


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    #151
    José Alaninho
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭José Alaninho


    Deleted: unfounded accusation


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