DBZ

lurrrvs2sp00ge

I think we shud talk about Dragon ball Z for a while. Despite how famous it was i still dont think it was given enough credit and i honestly think that GT and Dragon ball were insults to the Z chronicles.

Any responces are appriciated

Tyranax

I'm a fan of DBZ, and of the original Dragon Ball and GT. I think that to call the other two "insults" to the Z chronicles is wrong. I actually think that pound for pound the original had better material than Z did. GT was, if we're all honest, weak. Too short to leave any kind of legacy, and not part of Toriyama's works. It was done for money. Some really good fights though, the ones against Lund and against the seven Ball guardians were really something.

As for Z, well, what can I say? Favourite saga: Cell's. I've never seen the movies, so I can't comment on them. I would say that although it's easy to parody, and it had a lot of filler, it's a very important part of anime history, and a very enjoyable one as well. I can't say that I have high hopes for the live action version though.

lurrrvs2sp00ge

You have a fair point about the dragon ball season and i would have to agree that Z had alot, ALOT of filler. i even think the whole garlic junior saga was just filler til the cell saga, i mean what was up with that, like 6 episodes long of sumtin, **** all history behing it and over like a shot.

corkstudent

lurrrvs2sp00ge wrote: »

I think we shud talk about Dragon ball Z for a while. Despite how famous it was i still dont think it was given enough credit and i honestly think that GT and Dragon ball were insults to the Z chronicles.

Any responces are appriciated

What? You are aware Dragonball came first?

lurrrvs2sp00ge

yeh im aware butt it was only shown in mass quantity globaly after GT

Prime32

Announcer: "On the next episode of Dragonball Z... PICCOLO AND KAMI DISCOVER THEIR TRUE ORIGINS!"
Me: "Umm... who's Piccolo?"

(They should have done Dragonball first )


A very important part of anime history, though. Shonen Jump writers still tribute it (why do you think Luffy eats so much, or Naruto wears orange and blue?)

lurrrvs2sp00ge

the thing is after Z was cancled for too many complaints about violance, they needed another way of making money and since they knew Dragon ball Z was a house hold name, instead of making a new show, hey used old and dated episodes before Z's time and tried to pass them off as new events. Goku wasnt turned into a kid in GT, thats a cover up because when it was first made he was a kid and had never been an adult. GT is accualy a prequel to Z, why do you think the animation is so crap and then it suddenly dramaticly improoved when ssj 4 was brought in and they had too write and draw new stuff.

L31mr0d

It introduced me to anime... but it has been surpassed many times since, I'm sure most avid anime fans will agree with this.

I recently went back to watch through the cell sagas and the cell games saga (my favourites) and it was unbearable in parts how drawn out some of the sequences are. It brought up all the frustration again from when I was a kid, watching a whole episode (the first 10 minutes of which are a recap) of Goku leveling up only for it to end just before the fight would begin. The next episode would inevitably start with a quick 2 minute fight to be followed by a long drawn out sequence of someone recalling or remembering past fights to reuse old animation but now in grayscale or sepia. I swear, each episode maybe gave you 5 minutes of actual new material, lol :rolleyes:

lurrrvs2sp00ge

i hav to agree with you on the fact that if you are into manga and ect.. you wont be big into this but i was never really a fan of manga. also i agree that it had way to much filler and recycling of scenes but not enough to turn me off the show. i think the good part compensate for the laim parts

Prime32

lurrrvs2sp00ge wrote: »

the thing is after Z was cancled for too many complaints about violance, they needed another way of making money and since they knew Dragon ball Z was a house hold name, instead of making a new show, hey used old and dated episodes before Z's time and tried to pass them off as new events. Goku wasnt turned into a kid in GT, thats a cover up because when it was first made he was a kid and had never been an adult. GT is accualy a prequel to Z, why do you think the animation is so crap and then it suddenly dramaticly improoved when ssj 4 was brought in and they had too write and draw new stuff.

Um, no. GT wasn't a prequel (and the animation is much better than the original Dragonball). They were just trying to make a series more similar to DB. You seem to have missed the parts where Kid Goku interacts with adult Gohan and Goten. Plus, he gets turned into a kid in the series itself.

lurrrvs2sp00ge

i accualy meant GT was prequal to Z not dragon ball and its very easy if you already are a part of the copmpany who made the series to begin with to slightly change the script and add new scenes to make it compatable as if its new. all connections to GT in reletion to being after Z such as meeting charicers from Z can all be added in

corkstudent

L31mr0d wrote: »

It introduced me to anime... but it has been surpassed many times since, I'm sure most avid anime fans will agree with this.

I recently went back to watch through the cell sagas and the cell games saga (my favourites) and it was unbearable in parts how drawn out some of the sequences are. It brought up all the frustration again from when I was a kid, watching a whole episode (the first 10 minutes of which are a recap) of Goku leveling up only for it to end just before the fight would begin. The next episode would inevitably start with a quick 2 minute fight to be followed by a long drawn out sequence of someone recalling or remembering past fights to reuse old animation but now in grayscale or sepia. I swear, each episode maybe gave you 5 minutes of actual new material, lol :rolleyes:

Filler. It was probably worse in the western version since some scenes would have been cut and replaced to flesh the episode out.

Prime32

lurrrvs2sp00ge wrote: »

i accualy meant GT was prequal to Z not dragon ball and its very easy if you already are a part of the copmpany who made the series to begin with to slightly change the script and add new scenes to make it compatable as if its new. all connections to GT in reletion to being after Z such as meeting charicers from Z can all be added in

Using unused DB scripts for GT is one thing, but there is no way that they took animation from it. The characters are different ages, and even Goku wears different outfits.

Apart from that, there are noticable differences in the art (including, but not limited to Goku's improbably buff chest as a kid in GT). Compare this with this.

Overheal

With the high popularity of the Dragon Ball manga, Toei Animation produced two anime television series based on the manga chapters, and a third based on the series characters. The first series, also titled Dragon Ball, premiered in Japan on Fuji Television on February 26, 1986 and ran until April 12, 1989.[3][22] Spanning 153 episodes, it covered the first 16 volumes of the 42 volume manga series.

With the ending of Dragon Ball, Toei Animation quickly released a second anime television series, Dragon Ball Z (ドラゴンボールZ（ゼット）, Doragon Bōru Zetto?, commonly abbreviated DBZ). Picking up where the first left off, Dragon Ball Z is adapted from the final twenty-six volumes of the manga series. It premiered in Japan on Fuji Television on April 26, 1989, taking over its predecessor's time slot, and ran for 291 episodes until its conclusion on January 31, 1996.

Produced by Toei Animation, Dragon Ball GT (ドラゴンボールGT（ジーティー）, Doragon Bōru Jī Tī?, G(rand) T(our)[3]) premiered on Fuji TV on February 2, 1996, and ran until November 19, 1997.[30] Unlike the first two series, it was not based on the original Dragon Ball manga.[31] Unable to retain the same "magic" as the first two series, it spanned only 64 episodes before ending.[3]

I disagree that the art was poorer. In the begining of GT it was actually of a quality that matched up to Z very well. GT just used a lot of fresh hand drawn frames. Whereas much of Z's polish was in the special effects. True, as the series went on some animation choices were made poorly. Perhaps they lost animators to the project after they stopped beleiving in where it was going - I dont know. But GT was based on the TV Series, Not the Mangas. Its likely they lost their best with the conclusion of Z.

Besides, in GT I really enjoyed that first fight he has where he goes Super Saian again for the first time.

At the end of the day though the vast majority of the story lines in GT just plain sucked. They definitely failed to create compelling enemies, and even failed to capture the established characters well, like Vegeta. And Piccolo.

L31mr0d

corkstudent wrote: »

Filler. It was probably worse in the western version since some scenes would have been cut and replaced to flesh the episode out.

Do you have any proof of this? Anyway, when I watched the cell sagas again recently they where subbed so they weren't the western versions.

lurrrvs2sp00ge

ok, after people started to become rediculously powerful and scouters couldnt read it anymore, what way do we have of keeping track of powerlevels we can measure against eachother and not just the charicters scencing it

Overheal

Just destructive power really.

Whatshisface that came to earth with vegeta could raze a city with the flick of his finger; Vegeta's Final Flash appeared every bit as destructive and long ranged as the Death Star; Buu could vaporise planets effortlessly and using translocation could do it again and again and again.

But ultimately the writers got ahead of themselves, and the whole idea of power levels really peaked by the end of the frieza saga. After that it all became fairly subjective. In the most recent DB movie that came out recently Vegeta's brother had a scouter though. Cant recall what it read off of goku or the others though

Tyranax

The guy who came to earth with Vegeta was called Nappa. Now that was a good episode.

But yeah, power levels just got ridiculous towards the end. Super Saiyan Level 4 was something to behold though.

lurrrvs2sp00ge

i was thinken that because i specificly remember frieza at his second transformation at 1000000

Prime32

One guy calculated Kid Buu's power level as 300 trillion. Seriously.

Also, when Tien was first introduced, he basically had a Sharingan. No, really, it had exactly the same abilities. Then he got shoved into the background.

lurrrvs2sp00ge

whats sharingan

Overheal

i think he means http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sharingan but i could be wrong.

lurrrvs2sp00ge

i see. thats probly the story behind his third eye

Cy_Revenant

Overheal wrote: »

Just destructive power really.

Whatshisface that came to earth with vegeta could raze a city with the flick of his finger; Vegeta's Final Flash appeared every bit as destructive and long ranged as the Death Star; Buu could vaporise planets effortlessly and using translocation could do it again and again and again.

But ultimately the writers got ahead of themselves, and the whole idea of power levels really peaked by the end of the frieza saga. After that it all became fairly subjective. In the most recent DB movie that came out recently Vegeta's brother had a scouter though. Cant recall what it read off of goku or the others though

Incidently, Akira Toriyama originally wanted to finish writing Dragonball at the end of the Freiza saga. The whole super saiyan thing was supposed to wrap it all up.

Unfortunately, he was under contract. He was forced to continue writing it long past what he thought was its natural conclusion. That said, I loved the Cell saga.

Dragonball ended with the end of the Buu saga. Thats when Toriyama stopped writing. Anything that happened in the anime after that point is filler. This includes the entire of GT.

lurrrvs2sp00ge

dont worry bout it. GT sucked

corkstudent

lurrrvs2sp00ge wrote: »

ok, after people started to become rediculously powerful and scouters couldnt read it anymore, what way do we have of keeping track of powerlevels we can measure against eachother and not just the charicters scencing it

You don't. Power levels and "stated increases" are what ruined Dragonball to begin with. I like to make the presumption they didn't get "that" much more powerful after Super Saiyan and that power levels were never linear to begin with.

corkstudent

Cy_Revenant wrote: »

Incidently, Akira Toriyama originally wanted to finish writing Dragonball at the end of the Freiza saga. The whole super saiyan thing was supposed to wrap it all up.

Unfortunately, he was under contract. He was forced to continue writing it long past what he thought was its natural conclusion. That said, I loved the Cell saga.

Dragonball ended with the end of the Buu saga. Thats when Toriyama stopped writing. Anything that happened in the anime after that point is filler. This includes the entire of GT.

Untrue. I believe the Goku & Friends return special is cannon(disregarding GT), and the Dragonball Online game is a continuation of a universe, being mostly produced by Toriyama himself. Obviously he's not as sick of Dragonball as we all believe, he just needed a good break after 8+ years of writing the same stuff.

Cy_Revenant

corkstudent wrote: »

Untrue. I believe the Goku & Friends return special is cannon(disregarding GT), and the Dragonball Online game is a continuation of a universe, being mostly produced by Toriyama himself. Obviously he's not as sick of Dragonball as we all believe, he just needed a good break after 8+ years of writing the same stuff.

My bad, I forgot about the recent OVA. Though seeing as Dragonball finished in 1995, it would be more of a 13 year break.

Tar.Aldarion

Just watched all of dragonball again and am on 211 of dragonballz, talk about a slog!

Tyranax

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Just watched all of dragonball again and am on 211 of dragonballz, talk about a slog!

What's your viewing schedule, how many episodes would you watch per day for example? Original World Martial Arts Tournament ftw as well in Dragonball, some brilliant fights.

Tar.Aldarion

Some days none, some days 10 or 20, bit random. When I was sick i watched loads. It would also be on in the backround while I do other things, half watching it.