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equal rights for fathers??

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245

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    #32
    craiginireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 872 ✭✭✭craiginireland


    planetX wrote: »
    Wrong, I have no responsibility for any of your difficulties. Anymore than you are responsible for the biased judge that I was unfortunate enough to come in front of.

    Was this a Dublin court?
    smccarrick wrote: »
    Thats the problem though- a perception that the judiciary are biased- irrespective of whether its true or not.......

    Lets be honest these are people institutionalized by the state for a long time. They are following archaic laws. They are biased because they've been giving the same ruling for a long time. Why change after all these years. From talking to solicitors its the newer judges that are getting softer but the older ones - we've not a hope. So basically Don't shoot the messanger. Change the message!
    jonny24ie wrote: »
    I know the feeling mate, I'm in the same boat. Got dragged through courts numerous times having to pay for legal representation when the "other party" didn't bother showing up even when it was them that demanded we go to court.

    I work hard every day, see my son every weekend and provide everything I can for him.

    Its hardest for the child and the courts never ever look into anything the father says, my son always telss me he wants to live with me etc but I know as fact the courts would never allow it.

    I'm glad i'm not the only one. I know how you feel mate.
    planetX wrote: »
    Hopefully not in general - but there are a few 'rogues' out there, affecting both sides of this debate. This one seriously had a screw loose - and the other party was also deeply unhappy at his ruling btw. How do you qualify as a judge? there needs to be some kind of personality test.

    See my post above. They need re-training or maybe replacing. But before they start that we need to overhaul the laws that govern them. Whats the old saying "I don't make the law - i just follow it"


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    #33
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    OMG - you are on dangerous territory here as everyone knows that women instinctively know best.

    When a couple seperates it is in the childrens best interest that the woman gets the house and all the assets and spare cash.

    Men are strong and can easily live outside without a home in fact most prefer it as it was how they lived in neanderthal times.

    Women need to get maintainance however much they want because if they dont the men will only spend it in pubs and bookies.

    a man who was involved in bringing up his children only was doing so because he was closely managed and monitored by the mother.

    Why men cant see this is beyond me.:rolleyes:


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    #34
    craiginireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 872 ✭✭✭craiginireland


    LOL
    That was a joke right?


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    #35
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    craiginireland wrote: »
    LOL
    That was a joke right?

    Its public policy and if you dont agree with it you are a Neanderthal Apologist or a man.

    Go off and join some touchy feely wussy mans group or www.amen.ie or parental equality and hold hands with all the other wusses.


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    #36
    craiginireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 872 ✭✭✭craiginireland


    CDfm wrote: »
    Its public policy and if you dont agree with it you are a Neanderthal Apologist or a man.

    Go off and join some touchy feely wussy mans group or www.amen.ie or parental equality and hold hands with all the other wusses.

    i know my place


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    #37
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    planetX wrote: »
    All things being equal - by that I meant neither parent was unfit. I'm sorry if you don't see your kids enough, I don't see mine enough either though I have custody. I'm coming from the perspective of someone who was pregnant alone, gave birth virtually alone, and did the first 7 years of parenting alone. So I admit, I'm biased here.
    Did you know that prisoners in Mountjoy have more access to their kids then is given by the family courts. Thats how it should be -proper supervised access.


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    #38
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    craiginireland wrote: »

    Lets be honest these are people institutionalized by the state for a long time. They are following archaic laws. They are biased because they've been giving the same ruling for a long time. Why change after all these years. From talking to solicitors its the newer judges that are getting softer but the older ones - we've not a hope. So basically Don't shoot the messanger. Change the message!

    Oh deary - have you been browzing the internet again and getting upsetting ideas about being an equal parent.

    Your PC should have the facility to block upsetting sites like this one http://www.parentalequality.ie/pe/default.asp


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    #39
    craiginireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 872 ✭✭✭craiginireland


    those poor souls robbing those loafs of bread for theire family yeah?


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    #40
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    craiginireland wrote: »
    those poor souls robbing those loafs of bread for theire family yeah?
    true role models who know how to absent themselves away from the family home and children and obey the judgement of the courts. Others could learn from them.


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    #41
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    jonny24ie wrote: »
    I know the feeling mate, I'm in the same boat. Got dragged through courts numerous times having to pay for legal representation when the "other party" didn't bother showing up even when it was them that demanded we go to court.

    I work hard every day, see my son every weekend and provide everything I can for him.

    Its hardest for the child and the courts never ever look into anything the father says, my son always telss me he wants to live with me etc but I know as fact the courts would never allow it.
    Another helpless little soul with a cry for help -try these guys for size- an unmarried and seperated fathers group- just what the world needs

    http://www.usfi.ie/


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    #42
    laurak265
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭laurak265


    i don't know what to say really! Some dads are really great dads and other are just practically sperm doners lol. Have a child, dad no around because he wouldn't push a buggy in case his mates saw him, wouldn't change a nappy cos its womans work, wouldn't bath the child cos its wrong for men to bath children (:confused:) but this was allowed tell me how to rear the child like his mammy..ie turn my son into him!! No thanks. Don't believe every man is entitled to access to children. I know thats hard on the men who actually do all the necessary work to rear children and deserve time with their children. I know men don't like the weekend visits but as previously said you get the best time with them. Monday morning dragging them out of bed, trying to get them washed dressed and breakfast into them, making sure they have their lunch, sports kit for sports day and getting them off to school in time to be on time for work. HOme dinner on, washing on, homework done, bit of time together and washed and off to bed before cleaning the house...hardy quality time!!!! Enjoy the time you do have with them and make the most of it. Fair play to ye cos i do it all alone! I prefer it that way cos otherwise i'd be in mountjoy for murder LOL (no seriously).

    My two cents..


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    #43
    craiginireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 872 ✭✭✭craiginireland


    CDfm wrote: »
    Another helpless little soul with a cry for help -try these guys for size- an unmarried and seperated fathers group- just what the world needs

    http://www.usfi.ie/

    Whats the story with these lads?
    laurak265 wrote: »
    i don't know what to say really! Some dads are really great dads and other are just practically sperm doners lol. Have a child, dad no around because he wouldn't push a buggy in case his mates saw him, wouldn't change a nappy cos its womans work, wouldn't bath the child cos its wrong for men to bath children (:confused:) but this was allowed tell me how to rear the child like his mammy..ie turn my son into him!! No thanks. Don't believe every man is entitled to access to children. I know thats hard on the men who actually do all the necessary work to rear children and deserve time with their children. I know men don't like the weekend visits but as previously said you get the best time with them. Monday morning dragging them out of bed, trying to get them washed dressed and breakfast into them, making sure they have their lunch, sports kit for sports day and getting them off to school in time to be on time for work. HOme dinner on, washing on, homework done, bit of time together and washed and off to bed before cleaning the house...hardy quality time!!!! Enjoy the time you do have with them and make the most of it. Fair play to ye cos i do it all alone! I prefer it that way cos otherwise i'd be in mountjoy for murder LOL (no seriously).

    My two cents..

    I would love to take my child to school. At the moment his mother wont tell me what school he goes too! Because she wants more money than the court ordered! Please don't tar all men with the brush from the p*ss artist u got lumbered with. Fair play on the doing it alone


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    #44
    Mr Bloat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭Mr Bloat


    laurak265 wrote: »
    i don't know what to say really! Some dads are really great dads and other are just practically sperm doners lol. Have a child, dad no around because he wouldn't push a buggy in case his mates saw him, wouldn't change a nappy cos its womans work, wouldn't bath the child cos its wrong for men to bath children (:confused:) but this was allowed tell me how to rear the child like his mammy..ie turn my son into him!! No thanks. Don't believe every man is entitled to access to children. I know thats hard on the men who actually do all the necessary work to rear children and deserve time with their children. I know men don't like the weekend visits but as previously said you get the best time with them. Monday morning dragging them out of bed, trying to get them washed dressed and breakfast into them, making sure they have their lunch, sports kit for sports day and getting them off to school in time to be on time for work. HOme dinner on, washing on, homework done, bit of time together and washed and off to bed before cleaning the house...hardy quality time!!!! Enjoy the time you do have with them and make the most of it. Fair play to ye cos i do it all alone! I prefer it that way cos otherwise i'd be in mountjoy for murder LOL (no seriously).

    My two cents..

    I'm thankfully happily married and have two great kids for whom I do all the stuff I've highlighted in the quote. Not alone though, with my wife. I'm proud that I'm a good dad and take a very active role in every part of my children's lives. By that measure, I can't understand any guy who won't push a buggy or change a nappy. Despite all that though, I'm painfully aware that if the marriage deteriorated badly enough and my wife and I split, chances are I'd be denied access to my kids on the whim of what my wife decides in court, despite taking doing all the highlighted (and more, obviously). That's just wrong.


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    #45
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    craiginireland wrote: »
    Whats the story with these lads?

    OMG lads.

    If ya have rights you want to enforce and have kids you want to see and dont have money for lawyers ya have to learn how to do it yerselves.

    Most groups are volountary give assistance and for Dublin may provide court accompanyment and will have support groups,seminars and packs on dealing with the situation legally and I stress legally because they wont have the time or resourses for people who are not prepared to draw a line behind the past and do things properly - and as they are dealing with issues to help you access your children they will expect this.

    The main groups are

    www.amen.ie and these deal with issues where there may have been physical or emotional abuse with the woman as the aggressor either now or following seperation.

    www.usfi.ie - set up in Tallaght they deal with fathers rights even where the couple is not married

    www.parentalequality.ie - similar to the above but with more of a focus on co-parenting grandparents acess etc.

    I dont play cricket or watch it but if I did I would know the rules. Family Law is the same -how can you enforce rights quickly and cheaply if you dont know what your rights are and how to go about it. How do you gather the strenght to go forward and enforce those rights month after month if thats what it takes.

    It works for guys but guys must want to parent -if you are into it fine -go for the win.:)


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    #46
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Mr Bloat wrote: »
    I'm thankfully happily married and have two great kids for whom I do all the stuff I've highlighted in the quote. Not alone though, with my wife. I'm proud that I'm a good dad and take a very active role in every part of my children's lives. By that measure, I can't understand any guy who won't push a buggy or change a nappy. Despite all that though, I'm painfully aware that if the marriage deteriorated badly enough and my wife and I split, chances are I'd be denied access to my kids on the whim of what my wife decides in court, despite taking doing all the highlighted (and more, obviously). That's just wrong.
    How would you feel if in the morning your wife came to you and said " Big guy - sorry it aint working -I want you to move out but pay all the bills and you can see the kids two hours a week"

    I imagine your post would be a lot different.

    Some women scoff and then it happens their sons ,brothers or the lad next door they hung around with.

    They all have something in common -ignorance of the system until it affects them.


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    #47
    Mr Bloat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭Mr Bloat


    CDfm wrote: »
    How would you feel if in the morning your wife came to you and said " Big guy - sorry it aint working -I want you to move out but pay all the bills and you can see the kids two hours a week"

    I imagine your post would be a lot different.

    Some women scoff and then it happens their sons ,brothers or the lad next door they hung around with.

    They all have something in common -ignorance of the system until it affects them.

    How could my post have been different, I already said that I'm aware that my wife holds all the cards regarding custody if the marriage broke up. It won't change what I do now.

    Also, ignorance of the system could be true of anything - If I was never in a car accident, I'd have no idea of how the insurance claim system works. As I've never been on trial for a crime, I have no idea how that system works either. Generally people don't go researching or involving themselves in procedures unless it directly affects them.


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    #48
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    CDfm wrote: »
    Oh deary - have you been browzing the internet again and getting upsetting ideas about being an equal parent.

    Your PC should have the facility to block upsetting sites like this one http://www.parentalequality.ie/pe/default.asp


    CDfm this is your only warning change the antagonistic tone to your posts
    or you will have your posting privileges removed.


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    #49
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    craiginireland wrote: »
    I would love to take my child to school. At the moment his mother wont tell me what school he goes too! Because she wants more money than the court ordered! Please don't tar all men with the brush from the p*ss artist u got lumbered with. Fair play on the doing it alone

    That is disgusting as far as I am concerned, do you have guardianship ?
    That is meant to give you a say in how your child is educated.
    Why don't you know ?
    Why aren't you getting reports and invited to parent teacher meetings ?
    I am seriously shocked at her carry on re the school.


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    #50
    craiginireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 872 ✭✭✭craiginireland


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    That is disgusting as far as I am concerned, do you have guardianship ?
    That is meant to give you a say in how your child is educated.
    Why don't you know ?
    Why aren't you getting reports and invited to parent teacher meetings ?
    I am seriously shocked at her carry on re the school.

    I have guardianship and legal access on Weekends.. She won't tell me because she wants more money. and besides "what he does on weekdays doesnt affect me" Holding me to ransom etc. She gets more than enough but I cant afford another court case and as for the guards - they don't want to know. Now if i wasnt paying money it would be a diffirent story. Ref: the guy who got sent to prison before xmas cos he was on the dole and couldnt afford the maintainance the court set down before he got redundancy.


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    #51
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    That is disgusting as far as I am concerned, do you have guardianship ?
    That is meant to give you a say in how your child is educated.
    Why don't you know ?
    Why aren't you getting reports and invited to parent teacher meetings ?
    I am seriously shocked at her carry on re the school.
    Sorry Thaed - the family law stuff is difficult for guys and Ive overdone the sarcasm a tad.

    But I do think guys should make it their business to enforce their rights. You should bear in mind that not every feminist has as fair and joined up thinking as you do.

    Lots of this stuff happened me and it was because the schools "assumed" I was being given the information. What I did was contact the school and make an appointment and tell them to send copies of everything to me.


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    #52
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    craiginireland wrote: »
    I have guardianship and legal access on Weekends.. She won't tell me because she wants more money. and besides "what he does on weekdays doesnt affect me" Holding me to ransom etc. She gets more than enough but I cant afford another court case and as for the guards - they don't want to know. Now if i wasnt paying money it would be a diffirent story. Ref: the guy who got sent to prison before xmas cos he was on the dole and couldnt afford the maintainance the court set down before he got redundancy.

    I would if I were you with your passport, copy of your child's birthcert and statement of guardianship go to the school and tell them you want to be kept informed.

    Surely your son can tell you what the name of the school is or at least his teachers name so you can figure out which one.

    You child's life and over all well being is your business.
    CDfm wrote: »
    Sorry Thaed - the family law stuff is difficult for guys and Ive overdone the sarcasm a tad.

    Thank you this is an emotive topic and I do not want this forum which has always aimed to be inclusive to turn into a battle ground.
    CDfm wrote: »
    But I do think guys should make it their business to enforce their rights. You should bear in mind that not every feminist has as fair and joined up thinking as you do.

    I think they should too. From a feminist point of view anything which limits my choice as a person who happens to be female is not a good thing also
    anything which limits the choices of a man which in turn limits my choices
    is not a good thing.

    And then I am a child's rights advocate as well.
    CDfm wrote: »
    Lots of this stuff happened me and it was because the schools "assumed" I was being given the information. What I did was contact the school and make an appointment and tell them to send copies of everything to me.

    Which is imho the way to do it, if you are intrested in your child's life then
    take the steps to keep yourself informed with out needing to go through the other parent to limit hassle.


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    #53
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    I would if I were you with your passport, copy of your child's birthcert and statement of guardianship go to the school and tell them you want to be kept informed.

    You child's life and over all well being is your business.



    Thank you this is an emotive topic and I do not want this forum which has always aimed to be inclusive to turn into a battle ground.



    I think they should too. From a feminist point of view anything which limits my choice as a person who happens to be female is not a good thing also
    anything which limits the choices of a man which in turn limits my choices
    is not a good thing.

    And then I am a child's rights advocate as well

    Being a Dad is an awful lot of fun as well as a lot of responsibility and I love it.

    Teenage daughter has just arrived and we are going shopping to Penneys- to get corset tops for a play costume:D

    Mary Cleary of Amen is a feminist and advocate of mens rights.

    Its great that Dads can see that there you as a woman are so encouraging.

    Stuff like anger and revenge are useless emotions and they should be left behind. Guys should be polite and assert their rights -agression has no place here.


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    #54
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    What do people mean by equal rights? 50/50 automatic custody and costs? If you do you will see a lot more men pressuring their girlfriends to abort because they dont want to have the child 50 percent of the time or put out for 50 percent of the costs.


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    #55
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    What do people mean by equal rights? 50/50 automatic custody and costs? If you do you will see a lot more men pressuring their girlfriends to abort because they dont want to have the child 50 percent of the time or put out for 50 percent of the costs.
    Metro- the abortion issue is a bit off topic - this is about Dads who want to be involved but are not allowed to be.

    This is the opposite side of the scale


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    #56
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    CDfm wrote: »
    Metro- the abortion issue is a bit off topic - this is about Dads who want to be involved but are not allowed to be.

    This is the opposite side of the scale

    The problem with automatic rights and responsibilities is the enforcement on fathers who dont want to be fathers. You will get a hell of a lot more of these kind with "EQUAL" rights. They may not mind if all they have to do is pay 20 a week and see the kid twice a year but if the law makes them see the child an awful lot and pay half the costs then you are headed for a whole lot of trouble.


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    #57
    sassa
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭sassa


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    The problem with automatic rights and responsibilities is the enforcement on fathers who dont want to be fathers. You will get a hell of a lot more of these kind with "EQUAL" rights. They may not mind if all they have to do is pay 20 a week and see the kid twice a year but if the law makes them see the child an awful lot and pay half the costs then you are headed for a whole lot of trouble.

    that is your opinion (and you are entitled to it) maybe you shouldnt have sex?? just a thought

    and if the father is gonna have any contact with the child be it twice a year or twice a day he should pay half the cost for the child as it takes a hell of a lot more than €20 a week for a baby never mind the costs when they're older! and it the point you made which has the situation the way it is with the courts veering more to women than men because that is accepted to be the viewpoint of all men!


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    #58
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    sassa wrote: »
    that is your opinion (and you are entitled to it) maybe you shouldnt have sex?? just a thought

    and if the father is gonna have any contact with the child be it twice a year or twice a day he should pay half the cost for the child as it takes a hell of a lot more than €20 a week for a baby never mind the costs when they're older! and it the point you made which has the situation the way it is with the courts veering more to women than men because that is accepted to be the viewpoint of all men!

    What? I cant make out anything you said. Could you be more coherent please?


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    #59
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    The problem with automatic rights and responsibilities is the enforcement on fathers who dont want to be fathers. You will get a hell of a lot more of these kind with "EQUAL" rights. They may not mind if all they have to do is pay 20 a week and see the kid twice a year but if the law makes them see the child an awful lot and pay half the costs then you are headed for a whole lot of trouble.

    You cant force a guy to be a proper Dad - same way you cant force a junkie Mom to be a proper Mom.

    If a guy doesnt want his rights extinguish them in the same way you would put a child into foster care. That should be the exception and not the rule.

    I know you bring up your son alone and your views may be influenced by your experiences and I dont know what these are. While in Ireland we have" equal rights" they are difficult to enforce.I often feel the Californian model of proper access enforcement would free up the family courts and the courts dont do enough to enforce their own orders.


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    #60
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    CDfm wrote: »
    You cant force a guy to be a proper Dad - same way you cant force a junkie Mom to be a proper Mom.

    If a guy doesnt want his rights extinguish them in the same way you would put a child into foster care. That should be the exception and not the rule.

    I know you bring up your son alone and your views may be influenced by your experiences and I dont know what these are. While in Ireland we have" equal rights" they are difficult to enforce.I often feel the Californian model of proper access enforcement would free up the family courts and the courts dont do enough to enforce their own orders.

    Ok I see what you are saying. Practically speaking I see what you are talking about only working in cases of split ups where the child has been cohabitating with both parents for a number of years. Otherwise what are you going to do? Walk into the hospital and take the baby out of the mothers arms?

    Secondly with what you propose, you will see a LOT more men doing the walking. Thirdly, I dont think what happens in NY State is any better for direct, inverse reasons to what happens in Ireland. Its pretty draconian and brutal from what I have seen.


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    #61
    craiginireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 872 ✭✭✭craiginireland


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    I would if I were you with your passport, copy of your child's birthcert and statement of guardianship go to the school and tell them you want to be kept informed.

    Surely your son can tell you what the name of the school is or at least his teachers name so you can figure out which one.

    You child's life and over all well being is your business.

    Bit hard when he's only in playschool. He tells me bout it and he seems to love it so. Unless there are monkeys in his class in which case i've lots more questions ;)

    CDFM i've never heard of AMEN before, I'll definetly check it out


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