Can deaf people "hear" themselves think?

blubloblu

dsmythy wrote: »

On a side note, hold your breath, close your eyes and root your tongue somewhere in your mouth so that it can't budge. Can you "say" and therefore "hear" yourself "say" in your mind something like, "my name is..."?

Because i struggle to "speak" in my mind unless my breathing is going along with it or my tongue and mouth move slightly as if i'm going to speak normally. I find it hard to think of the word i'm trying to "say". Am i alone in this?

I can do the above quite easily. Maybe you're unable to think?

nibble

Lots of people don't seem to be understanding the question, and seem to think it is somehow discriminatory toward deaf people.. What the OP meant was that if somebody were to be born completely deaf and never learned any form of language, what would they use to organise their thought process.. When you are reading, or trying to work out a problem you verbally recite it in your mind and this helps us to logically work through something using an organised language to do it. This is where our intelligance as humans is realised, by the use of sophisticated communication internally and of course externally when communicating with others.

Now take the deaf person with no language of any kind, how does he organise his thoughts and keep track of a linear mental process? Obviously they can think, but it is more instinctual and subconscious, more like any other animal, and I mean animal in no derogatory way, after all that's what we all are.
Very intriuging question, straight forward enough to comprehend I would have thought but obviously not...

Miss Tequila

I'm deaf, i dont do sign language, i can lip read very well and when i watching TV, i use subtitle- really helpful.

Dudess

deco05ie wrote: »

You don't need language to think.

Exactly - not disputing that. So... how is it done without language? I know it's done, but how?

Baby's obviously still think since there able to solve problems and learn so why is it hard for anyone to understand that a deaf person could also think?

Faulty analogy. Babies don't have much to think about, plus those with hearing pick up words from early on... but I'm not saying deaf people can't think anyway so that's besides the point.

The Paws wrote: »

Dudess: If you are a deaf person reading that...how you feel..?

I don't know. Maybe I'd get insulted or maybe I'd read between the lines and conclude that no offence was intended.

Do them a favour by having a really hard think about it before you type up these questions.
Of course they can think!!

Where did I say deaf people can't think? Why look for reasons to feel persecuted when that's not the intention? Obviously deaf people can think - I'm just wondering how it's done without language (and I'm only referring to people who have been deaf since birth) when that's the only way I'd know? What are the alternatives - that's all I'm wondering...

What about you?

What about me?

I'm sorry you feel hurt but I'm not apologising for asking what I think is a reasonable question. I'm actually trying to open my mind and consider how things are for people who don't have something I take for granted...

dsmythy

blubloblu wrote: »

I can do the above quite easily. Maybe you're unable to think?

I fear for me

I guess i'll breathe in future to be able to think.

Jeanious

deco05ie wrote: »

Why not just ask, How does anyone think?

because I don't believe anyone thinks using language thats just how its organized in your head, If you had to use language to think then how would you have been able to learn a language in the first place

What im trying to say the voice in your head is the result of thought but isn't thought it's self

So, if im understandin ya correctly, you reckon hearing people interpret their thoughts verbally, right? So if thats the case, the question im asking is, how do deaf people interpret their thoughts, considering theyve never heard words, and thus can't use the "voice in their heads" so to speak?

(i.e the question thats been lingering for the last 8 pages without any sort of an answer, but plenty of unfounded accusations!)

tech77

This is a genuinely interesting question but i fear more heat than light is being generated due to some perceived offence caused.

So yet again:
1) We know deaf people can think as well (or better) than hearing people- that's indisputable- IQ, behaviour, communication through signing etc.

2) What we want to know is: how is that thinking characterised?
Given that a deaf (from birth) person is presumably unfamiliar with sounds/voices, what (apart from voices) characterises their thought.

Is it characterised more visually.
I'm guessing it's a difficult question to answer and it's probably characterised by something (partly) unfamiliar to a hearing person.

I don't really see how that question is offensive.

Javaboy's point about how only a person with both experiences could explain it seems as good an answer as any.

The Paws

Well…….I say a deaf child might try to copy the way her mother spoke “hello” etc by looking at the mother’s mouth or by touching the mother’s throat to get the feel of the vibrations. In turn, the deaf child (from birth) copies the words just like what they saw so they think the same way as us.

Perhaps the deaf have their own version of words that they themselves only understand when thinking about something.

I really don’t know anymore because I say any deaf person couldn’t remember how they think if they don’t have enough words to think.

I thought thinking is more to do with thoughts so I don’t think sounds come with it???

I have a question – how a mute person hears themselves think? Do they use other people’s voices to think??

The Paws.

anplaya

I have a question – how a mute person hears themselves think? Do they use other people’s voices to think??

The Paws.[/quote]

ye come up with some crap,course a mute person can think,i know people who are deaf and mute.as i said,youd probably use your subconcious voice ,just the way NORMAL people do.in fairness ye shudnt be really answering questions as ye dont know the first thing about deafness,yet when i answer yer ques ye come back with another stupid idiotic one,i as a deaf person posted my reply about how we think etc,which the answer is again the same as NORMAL people

Dudess

anplaya wrote: »

ye come up with some crap,course a mute person can think

Sigh... Nobody said they can't. It seems like you're actually choosing to misinterpret posts and get all offended at this stage...

anplaya

dudess?ya know the way ya asked how can we think etc if we dont have a language?well im speaking to you in english and writing in english,which i learnt in school when i was a kid the same way as you did.just cause your deaf dont mean your stupid.nothing wrong with the brain,just the hearing.im deaf meself,n i use both speech and sign language,very rarely use sign,only when i meet other deaf people

Jesus Juice

Get In There wrote: »

wow u people are really stupid

Care to Elaborate???

Dudess

anplaya wrote: »

dudess?ya know the way ya asked how can we think etc if we dont have a language?well im speaking to you in english and writing in english,which i learnt in school when i was a kid the same way as you did.

Are you deaf from birth? The question is being asked in regards to those who are born deaf.

just cause your deaf dont mean your stupid.nothing wrong with the brain

Well I'm glad you clarified that because I thought all deaf people were stupid... I'm being sarcastic before you pounce on me.

anplaya

Dudess wrote: »

Are you deaf from birth? The question is being asked in regards to those who are born deaf.

Well I'm glad you clarified that because I thought all deaf people were stupid... I'm being sarcastic before you pounce on me.

ye deaf from birth,wear two hearing aids.

Zangetsu

This is a pretty interesting thread (well... for AH...).

I always wondered about this myself, I find that I don't always think with words (I'm not deaf btw) but quite often I will think with shapes and colors/patterns. Mostly when problem solving or creating music, words don't really work for me... Its really hard to explain...

Anyone else in that boat?

The Paws

anplaya: I meant a mute person who can hear but cant talk. It has nothing to do with the deaf...Please read!!

anplaya

my apologies The Paws ,ive met people who are mute and not deaf ,they know sign language so they use that to communicate with others .

Is all sign language universal or are some words different in various languages?

If you are blind from birth, what would your dreams be represented as - if you have never seen anything at all.

The_B_Man

Deleted User wrote: »

If you are blind from birth, what would your dreams be represented as - if you have never seen anything at all.

probably relaxing sounds like the ocean and sensations like hot and cold. tho if they're well accustomed to not seeing, they prob have conversations with ppl just using the sounds like as if they're awake.

imagine it like if we had a 6th sense like being mind readers. how would we dream if we were born with just 5 senses. We'd just dream without it like we're used to.

so blind people probably dream like they're listenin to the radio, and deaf people probably dream like they have the telly on mute!

The Paws

I think there is one sign language for all around the world - simple version ones - then you have ISL, BSL etc.

ISL = Irish Sign Language, BSL = British Sign Language etc.. ISL is different to BSL but not very different...ISL use mostly one hand for lettering where as BSL use two. This is an example.

The same idea goes to American Sign Language. ..the French, Spanish..... again these are different due to language difference but in a different way. Have a google - type ISL etc!

Even one is speaking same language eg English from here to the one from America/England/Austriala but it is signed in a different way.

I hope this is correct!

The Paws

No worries anplaya!

Black Swan

Although not born deaf, didn't Ludwig van Beethoven compose his 9th Symphony when deaf?

anplaya

The Paws wrote: »

I think there is one sign language for all around the world - simple version ones - then you have ISL, BSL etc.

ISL = Irish Sign Language, BSL = British Sign Language etc.. ISL is different to BSL but not very different...ISL use mostly one hand for lettering where as BSL use two. This is an example.

The same idea goes to American Sign Language. ..the French, Spanish..... again these are different due to language difference but in a different way. Have a google - type ISL etc!

Even one is speaking same language eg English from here to the one from America/England/Austriala but it is signed in a different way.

I hope this is correct!

the one that deaf people use to speak to people from other countries is known as international sign language.its basically a simple way to communicate as all sign worldwide is different.obviously in ireland we use isl.

a french lad would use french sign language whilst an irish person would use isl.if they spoke using their own sign languages itll be completely different to the sign ya use so you woudnt understand a thing,basically the same with spoken languages.

jedistev

this is best forum i have see!!!

i cant believe how people is!!!!



cos I'm Deaf myself

yoshytoshy

Can anyone hear me typing ? ,no. Because I pressed the keys long before you've read this:D

jedistev

jedistev wrote: »

this is best forum i have see!!!

i cant believe how people is!!!!



cos I'm Deaf myself

__________________
Mario Kart Wii

4725-8118-7332

dare to battle me online call me !!!!

Should I text you instead so?

kincsem

minidazzler wrote: »

Is this like one of those Japanese Haiku's??? Like If a tree falls in a forrest and there is noone around to hear it, does it make a sound??

It a mime falls in a forest, and there is no one around, does anyone care?
If you kick a mime in the genitals does he make a sound?
If a mime swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap?
If a mime is arrested, do they tell him he has the right to remain silent?

Blind porn. What is it?

Hagar

minidazzler wrote: »

If a tree falls in a forrest and there is noone around to hear it, does it make a sound??

If a man speaks and there is no woman to hear him, is he still wrong?

javaboy

kincsem wrote: »

Blind porn. What is it?

Apparently some huge percentage of our turny on-edness comes from sound rather than sight. I'm not sure how true that is but later on I'll grab a stopwatch and my laptop and run some experiments to find out.

IvySlayer

javaboy wrote: »

Apparently some huge percentage of our turny on-edness comes from sound rather than sight. I'm not sure how true that is but later on I'll grab a stopwatch and my laptop and run some experiments to find out.

*finds a sexy wimmen*

*puts on phone*

Right, go.

Mysticvean

I've had a good laugh reading the posts in this thread.

Thanks for the laughs.

Scanlas The 2nd

Is there any deaf people here to enlighten us. We all think without language, when you're playing a sport you don't have time to think in language, you imagine a events that potentially could occur and choose the best option to meet your objectives.

Mysticvean

It does my nut in to see people use the word "speak" in relation to sign languages.

We do not SPEAK sign languages. We SIGN in sign languages.

Ok... Let's be serious here.

The OP asks whether someone born deaf can think in English.

Let's look at me. I speak only for myself here, not for everyone.

I'm deaf from birth.

Yet here I am typing away in fluent English.

Being Deaf, it is obvious that I do not hear as you do. So therefore what I perceive as "words" as heard in my inner voice is not the same as what these "words" would be as heard in your inner voice.

Capisce?

Anplaya, good explanation of sign languages. One little wee correction, though.

What is known as international sign is not actually a true language per se, but rather, a system. There is no set vocabulary, no set grammatical structure for international sign. It depends on the parties involved using the system of communicating how it works.

However, when it comes to ISL, BSL, AUSLAN, ASL, the mouth patterns may give the superficial impression that these sign languages are based on English, but that isn't the case. Each of these sign languages have their own vocabularies, and grammatical structures.

thirtythirty

Mysticvean wrote: »

It does my nut in to see people use the word "speak" in relation to sign languages.

We do not SPEAK sign languages. We SIGN in sign languages.

Ok... Let's be serious here.

The OP asks whether someone born deaf can think in English.

Let's look at me. I speak only for myself here, not for everyone.

I'm deaf from birth.

Yet here I am typing away in fluent English.

Being Deaf, it is obvious that I do not hear as you do. So therefore what I perceive as "words" as heard in my inner voice is not the same as what these "words" would be as heard in your inner voice.

Capisce?

Anplaya, good explanation of sign languages. One little wee correction, though.

What is known as international sign is not actually a true language per se, but rather, a system. There is no set vocabulary, no set grammatical structure for international sign. It depends on the parties involved using the system of communicating how it works.

However, when it comes to ISL, BSL, AUSLAN, ASL, the mouth patterns may give the superficial impression that these sign languages are based on English, but that isn't the case. Each of these sign languages have their own vocabularies, and grammatical structures.

That's mad - did you personally assign noises to letters in your head when you were learning?

So for instance your "d" could be our sound "zzz"?

anplaya

old thread lads from 2009

thirtythirty

Ye I know, but it's been given a new life by someone with answers!

corktina

If an old thread pops out of obscurity , and noone reads,it, does it still go "pop"?

I don't always think in sounds
more like general vague impressions
sometimes in written words as i sometimes mentally need to see them written to process them better if someone is speaking to me

forfuxsake

I remember reading the word of a blind man which went something like this.

'People with sight often try to imagine blindness by closing their eyes, but this is not how it feels to be blind. To fee what a blind person feels you should try and use your finger to look round a corner'

Never mind deaf people, how do blind people know when to stop wiping?

Mysticvean

http://whatshouldwecallrit.tumblr.com/post/23203456854/when-you-find-out-that-there-are-a-lot-of-deaf-people

Exactly the GIFs for this thread.

Mysticvean

spottyelephant wrote: »

That's mad - did you personally assign noises to letters in your head when you were learning?

So for instance your "d" could be our sound "zzz"?

I don't think in sounds per se.

More how I would mouth/say these words.

Mysticvean

Domo230 wrote: »

Answer me this then. How do you speak on the internet if your'e deaf?





But to be serious the way you think in your head must be extremely different to how people who can hear do. It's so alien a concept to me (and I imagine most people who can hear) that I find it difficult to imagine what it must be like.

Is your inner voice (thoughts) in images instead of hearing words?

LOL, :P re. How do I speak on the Internet.

Seriously... Thoughts, rather than hearing words, i would think in terms more like concepts and inner-speak, I suspect the way we think is a lot more similar than you suspect. I just don't hear words.

opinion guy

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't always think in sounds
more like general vague impressions
sometimes in written words as i sometimes mentally need to see them written to process them better if someone is speaking to me

Don't wolves think in howls, bottom sniffs, bearing teeth and various odours ?!?!

Mr.Biscuits

Seen a young blind guy running for the Luas the other day, stick stretched out in front of him, moving it rapidly from side to side. He had a big cheesy grin on his face though, as he knew well that if anyone didn't get out of his way, calamity would clearly ensue.

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

Don't wolves think in howls, bottom sniffs, bearing teeth and various odours ?!?!

yeah, that's when it's full moon time

Stark

Deaf people have no souls. No soul means no internal dialogue. Case closed.

Mr.Biscuits

Stark wrote: »

Deaf people have no souls. No soul means no internal dialogue. Case closed.

That's gingers you're think of there.