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Ugrent Help

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  • 15-01-2009 12:38pm
    #1
    EPM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    A girl working with me has a 06 Focus 1.4lx 40k km which is giving trouble. Its been back with the Ford Dealer all week. Whats happening is that all the warning lights are coming on at times. Also, the car has refused to start but will do so after 5 minutes or so.

    The have garage have come back to her with 3 options. Replace the wiring loom, replace the instrument cluster or replace the ABS module. They haven't been able to pin point the exact cause as of yet. No error codes are showing.

    As you can imagine, the cost of any of those is going to be pretty exessive and may not sort the problem:rolleyes:

    Can anyone recommend a place in Cork (probably a good indy) for a second opinion if required as she's getting worried about it?

    Cheers


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    #2
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    What month in 06 is it? Does it have a full dealer SH? The reason I ask is that it's not long out of warranty - i'd be asking Ford Ireland for help if I were her.


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    #3
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Is the normal warranty not 3yrs or 100,000 miles/km?


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    #4
    EPM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭EPM


    Anan1 wrote: »
    What month in 06 is it? Does it have a full dealer SH? The reason I ask is that it's not long out of warranty - i'd be asking Ford Ireland for help if I were her.

    Thats what she's being saying to the dealer. Warranty is up since Apr 08. Its def worth a shot. Dealer agrees.
    TheNog wrote: »
    Is the normal warranty not 3yrs or 100,000 miles/km?

    Ford Warranty is 2 years unlimited mileage i think


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    #5
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    On Japanese cars yes, European cars usually get 2yrs/unlimited mileage.


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    #6
    Drummerboy08
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,102 ✭✭✭✭Drummerboy08


    I think it was only 2 years on a focus? Not too sure on that one...

    The instrument clusters are prone to going on these, but i would get a second opinion from a different garage first.

    I would also try to get some goodwill out of Ford ireland too.


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    #7
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Drummerboy08 wrote: »
    I think it was only 2 years on a focus? Not too sure on that one...

    The instrument clusters are prone to going on these, but i would get a second opinion from a different garage first.

    I would also try to get some goodwill out of Ford ireland too.

    By the instrument clusters I am guessing the instrument lights on the dashboard?

    Given that is true why would the car not start for 5 minutes?

    Sorry just showing my inexperience here


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    #8
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    TheNog wrote: »
    By the instrument clusters I am guessing the instrument lights on the dashboard?

    Given that is true why would the car not start for 5 minutes?

    Sorry just showing my inexperience here
    Don't feel bad, it appears to have the Ford dealership stumped too.;)


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    #9
    dsane1
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭dsane1


    Just a thought ,maybe get an AA report on the car .


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    #10
    EPM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭EPM


    Drummerboy08 wrote: »
    I think it was only 2 years on a focus? Not too sure on that one...

    The instrument clusters are prone to going on these, but i would get a second opinion from a different garage first.

    I would also try to get some goodwill out of Ford ireland too.

    Yes, good will is the way to go. Car has always been serviced by the book and she really looks after it.

    For the second opinion, can anyone suggest somewhere good? I could say ten to her off the top of my head but I have no idea if they could help. I suppose a good one man operation as opposed to a dealers apprentice is what I'm trying to find for her as I just usually deal with my own dealer (who dont do Fords).


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    #11
    S.I.R
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭S.I.R


    try stripping back the hole cluster and manually checking everything, peice by peice but any fix is going to be an arm and a leg...


    them guys at everyfordireland.com will help you ( link taken form corktinas sig... Stroked. )


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    #12
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    EPM wrote: »
    Hi all,

    A girl working with me has a 06 Focus 1.4lx 40k km which is giving trouble. Its been back with the Ford Dealer all week. Whats happening is that all the warning lights are coming on at times. Also, the car has refused to start but will do so after 5 minutes or so.

    The have garage have come back to her with 3 options. Replace the wiring loom, replace the instrument cluster or replace the ABS module. They haven't been able to pin point the exact cause as of yet. No error codes are showing.

    As you can imagine, the cost of any of those is going to be pretty exessive and may not sort the problem:rolleyes:

    Can anyone recommend a place in Cork (probably a good indy) for a second opinion if required as she's getting worried about it?

    Cheers

    Mother of Christ, whoever diagnosed that clearly hasn't a clue what they are doing.


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    #13
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    OP, the advice your friend has been given is a typical reply given by a garage that have not been able to resolve a particular issue. Being fair to them, sometimes you cannot sort out a problem because the combination of people who come together to try to sort it out, just on some occasions, I suppose you could say it doesn't work out, they overlook the cause of the problem and when this happens, very quickly you see probkem solving disicipline breaking down and lads jumping from one possible or probable cause to another, just throwing any possible solution at the problem out of desparation to resolve it, usually because a foreman or service manager is heaping pressure on them. This can be actually funny to look at sometimes, if lads are under pressure and you see completely silly suggestions starting to emerge and you are lucky to be not involved in the actual task and happen to be working on another task in the same place!

    What needs to happen here is a new set of eyes has to be brought to the problem, get the car to another garage, possibly a good indy garage and don't start telling them that it was up with Ford and they reckon the ABS module, wiring loom and dash clocks have to be changed, or you're just defeating the purpose of bringing a new set of eyes to the problem.


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    #14
    EPM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭EPM


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Mother of Christ, whoever diagnosed that clearly hasn't a clue what they are doing.

    Its kinda worrying tbh. She's waiting for them to call back again with more info. Suppose it's just a case of the computer says no

    carol-beer-computer-says-no.jpg


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    #15
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    EPM wrote: »
    Its kinda worrying tbh. She's waiting for them to call back again with more info. Suppose it's just a case of the computer says no

    That's what you can be dealing with sometimes, and it can happen in authorised dealerships just as often as anywhere else, which some people find had to believe.

    What I'd say is wrong here is that there is a wiring problem with one of the engine sensors or at the ignition coil and it's going to take someone who will approach the problem in a methodical manner, to get to the bottom of it. This means chasing all ECU input/sensor & output circuits and checking for damaged wires, etc. Also, components should be checked at waveform level using an oscilloscope to make sure that the signal pattern from the sensor is not defective.

    Computerised diagnostics will not always point to a problem where one exists under the above headings, so you have to go look for it...


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    #16
    Stevie Dakota
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Stevie Dakota


    You would have a battle with Ford to get it repaired out of warranty I would imagine, YET if you had bought it in the UK you would have a 3 year warranty. Just ridiculous, another example of the motor importers screwing us here and another reason to buy abroad.


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    #17
    EPM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭EPM


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    That's what you can be dealing with sometimes, and it can happen in authorised dealerships just as often as anywhere else, which some people find had to believe.

    What I'd say is wrong here is that there is a wiring problem with one of the engine sensors or at the ignition coil and it's going to take someone who will approach the problem in a methodical manner, to get to the bottom of it. This means chasing all ECU input/sensor & output circuits and checking for damaged wires, etc. Also, components should be checked at waveform level using an oscilloscope to make sure that the signal pattern from the sensor is not defective.

    Computerised diagnostics will not always point to a problem where one exists under the above headings, so you have to go look for it...

    Cheers for the info. I find with dealers that 99% of the time its the apprentice is just getting vague instructions from the senior mechanics. There really is a lot to be said for a good one man show


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    #18
    EPM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭EPM


    Stevie Dakota wrote: »
    You would have a battle with Ford to get it repaired out of warranty I would imagine, YET if you had bought it in the UK you would have a 3 year warranty. Just ridiculous, another example of the motor importers screwing us here and another reason to buy abroad.

    I know! was thinking the same when the air con compressor went on my 2yr old Leon 2 months out of warranty. If it was the UK it would be covered. Thankfully the dealer i bought it from 3 months earlier covered the cost...Seat wouldn't even entertain a goodwill gesture


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    #19
    ronaneire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭ronaneire


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Don't feel bad, it appears to have the Ford dealership stumped too.;)

    If the garage is any good, been that they are a main dealer. They should be in contact with Ford's technical dept. How many 06 1.4 petrol Focus are there in Ireland and the UK? They are might have come across this before.

    If the car would not start for five minutes it would not be in the instrument cluster.

    If anything it might be a fault on the ECU.


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    #20
    ford jedi
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭ford jedi


    there have been a few early new shape focus 1.4 that gave very unusual intermittent electrical faults mainly caused by the crap new ratchet type connectors in both left and right kick panels sadly all can lines run through these, and result in the craziest of fault codes been pulled up on the pc.we had alot of of problems with them and after a lot of heart ache with them they would show every fault code abs esp ic tpc airbag all sorts of crazy stuff and ford remedy in the end was putting complete new wiring looms in the car . all the looms ,
    this was mainly during the warranty models and was very expensive funny enough always seemed to be only on black focus,s
    so i can kinda see where the dealer is at with that one,


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    #21
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    ford jedi wrote: »
    there have been a few early new shape focus 1.4 that gave very unusual intermittent electrical faults mainly caused by the crap new ratchet type connectors in both left and right kick panels sadly all can lines run through these, and result in the craziest of fault codes been pulled up on the pc.we had alot of of problems with them and after a lot of heart ache with them they would show every fault code abs esp ic tpc airbag all sorts of crazy stuff and ford remedy in the end was putting complete new wiring looms in the car . all the looms ,
    this was mainly during the warranty models and was very expensive funny enough always seemed to be only on black focus,s
    so i can kinda see where the dealer is at with that one,

    You can imagine giving the go ahead to replace an ABS module, dash clocks and a whole wiring loom, I can't imagine that coming in at under 3K, and then finding out that all along, the problem was a 10 cent block connector.

    I think when you start hearing statements like "we're recommending that you replace the ABS module, the wiring loom and the dash clocks", you know you are dealing with people who haven't got the answer. Now there is nothing wrong with not having the answer, but to recomend replacing all these extremely expensive parts??? A Ford garge with this problem I think should be onto their manufacturer seeing if this type of problem has appeared before.


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    #22
    ford jedi
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭ford jedi


    your right in what you say daragh but the answer you get is only a good as the mechanic and havin been in a ford main dealer for along time theres a fairly strong chance you,l get someone who hasnt got a clue and just starts guessing. but ford technical are great for assistance to the dealer but alot of the time the dealer dosent want to waste time dealing with these type of faults and trys to scare of the customer off to someone else quoting all sorts of crazy prices and stuff


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    #23
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    ford jedi wrote: »
    your right in what you say daragh but the answer you get is only a good as the mechanic and havin been in a ford main dealer for along time theres a fairly strong chance you,l get someone who hasnt got a clue and just starts guessing. but ford technical are great for assistance to the dealer but alot of the time the dealer dosent want to waste time dealing with these type of faults and trys to scare of the customer off to someone else quoting all sorts of crazy prices and stuff

    Sure I know well the way it works, the auld, "Look, it needs a new ECU", story! What annoys me is that people think when you go to an authorised dealer, that they are "protected" from low skill levels, as these dealers are spending their time telling customers that "only we are properly authorised, trained and equipped to fully meet your needs", and as we can see here, this simply isn't the truth.

    Rather than be straight with the customer, they push her away with a 3K ball park repair bill. They just want rid of her because they couldn't be arsed with her problem...


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    #24
    EPM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭EPM


    Its ridiculous that a main dealer cant find the fault. Darragh, cheers for your input on this. Ford jedi, will try and get them to contact Ford technical. She's losing faith in the car i think now. Its was bought new to last a fair few reliable years and spending a grand or so on it this early is bad.

    Thinking i might try find an auto electrician to have a look for her.

    Cheers again lads,

    Eoin


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