HELP VRT is driving me mad

BillyGoatGruff

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

You know what im thinking?

If you cant afford the €24,000 that you will need to pay in order to drive you XJ legally in this country, then your really wasting your time coming on here to complain about it.

Just by an irish car if you dont want to pay that much VRT. Or just buy a car you can afford to import.

Don't think the OPs issue is being able or not to afford VRT. He is complaining saying that the OMSP is excessivly high and is asking how he can appeal before rather than after paying it. I think kluiverts answer makes sense.

LoveDucati2

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

You know what im thinking?

If you cant afford the €24,000 that you will need to pay in order to drive you XJ legally in this country, then your really wasting your time coming on here to complain about it.

VRT is not a legal TAX, thats why it is been challenged in the European courts, unfortunately the case is going on 7 years + now.


Its not that I can't afford to pay it, its the fact that it is a criminal amount of money to hand over on a car costing 18,000 Euro :mad:


The fact is they are using an imaginary arbitrary system to come up with a value that has no place in reality and happily placing it on cars here. We should be doing something about this.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Just by an irish car if you dont want to pay that much VRT. Or just buy a car you can afford to import.

I will be indirectly paying VRT if I purchase a 2nd hand car here anyway

LoveDucati2

kluivert wrote: »

For the OP

What you do here is go to the VRO office.

Go to register the car and then say that you what to recline from registering the car as the OMSP as stated by the Revenue are incorrect and you would like them to investigate the correct OMSP.

Provide three examples of similiar cars with prices from registered SIMI dealers.

She will take this together with your details and send to their main VRO office.

She should give you a note, to cover you for 10 days until they have it sorted out.

I went to the VRO in Dundalk last July 08, I told them that the CO2 emissions on their site was incorrect and she was able to process my application with the lower CO2 rate as per the V5.

If you produce the Invoice as well from the place you bought it from, this should also assist your application.

This is a great reply, its the 1st time I have heard of this, and I have imported and paid VRT on more than 10 vehicles over the last 10 years.

Drummerboy08

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

VRT is not a legal TAX, thats why it is been challenged in the European courts, unfortunately the case is going on 7 years + now.

See how legal it is when the law take a shine to you for not declaring it, and not paying your VRT.


Its not that I can't afford to pay it, its the fact that it is a criminal amount of money to hand over on a car costing 18,000 Euro :mad:

It is a criminal amount to pay, but thats the way it is at the minute. No length of ranting on here will change that.


The fact is they are using an imaginary arbitrary system to come up with a value that has no place in reality and happily placing it on cars here. We should be doing something about this.

The government will not reduce the OMSP of vehicles as far as i can see. They are short on cash as it is, so why would they volunteer more money to be lost?




I will be indirectly paying VRT if I purchase a 2nd hand car here anyway

???

Drummerboy08

Dunno what happened to that one!!

peasant

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Its not that I can't afford to pay it, its the fact that it is a criminal amount of money to hand over on a car costing 18,000 Euro :mad:

criminal ?

you're loosing the run of yourself

LoveDucati2

peasant wrote: »

criminal ?

you're loosing the run of yourself

thanks peasant

lost the run of myself years ago;)

drunkmonkey

peasant wrote: »

criminal ?

I'd agree with Ducati, at least if you were burgled you could make an Insurance claim...
So to sum it up i'd rather be burgled than hand money over for VRT, it is daylight theft and nothing else...

LoveDucati2

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd agree with Ducati, at least if you were burgled you could make an Insurance claim...
So to sum it up i'd rather be burgled than hand money over for VRT, it is daylight theft and nothing else...

Thanks Drunk, you brought a smile to my face.

Terrontress

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

This is a great reply, its the 1st time I have heard of this, and I have imported and paid VRT on more than 10 vehicles over the last 10 years.

I paid VRT on a vehicle at Santry. They had difficulty putting a price on it so did exactly this. I think it sounds to be correct.

It BeeMee

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I will be indirectly paying VRT if I purchase a 2nd hand car here anyway

Eh, no.
You'll be refunding the seller some of the VRT they paid when they bought the car, but you'll contribute nothing to the Revenue coffers.
This is why Revenue are only too happy to see cars being imported, it means more money for them.

Terrontress

It BeeMee wrote: »

Eh, no.
You'll be refunding the seller some of the VRT they paid when they bought the car, but you'll contribute nothing to the Revenue coffers.
This is why Revenue are only too happy to see cars being imported, it means more money for them.

Never thought of it that way but you are spot on.

Guy:Incognito

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

VRT is not a legal TAX, thats why it is been challenged in the European courts, unfortunately the case is going on 7 years + now.

If it was illegal, why would the case take 7+ years?

Just because you say somethign is illegal it doesnt make it true.


Stealing is illegal, selling drugs is illegal, murder is illegal. That is why when someone is brought to court it is over and done with failry quick. If somethign is black and white illegal then it would not take 7 years.

Links to this case btw?

drunkmonkey

Stekelly wrote: »

If it was illegal, why would the case take 7+ years?

Just because you say somethign is illegal it doesnt make it true.


Stealing is illegal, selling drugs is illegal, murder is illegal. That is why when someone is brought to court it is over and done with failry quick. If somethign is black and white illegal then it would not take 7 years.

Links to this case btw?

here's your linky http://www.rte.ie/news/2002/0919/VRT.html :rolleyes:, google a bit harder and you'll find more, look up the poland case for example , btw it's now 2009 and there still screwing us like hookers down a dark alley..

the last time I looked it up there was a deadline of something like 2012 the governemt had to get their house in order (i.e stop riding it's citizens), It's double taxation which goes against the whole notion of the EU, free movement of good and people.

I really don't understand why it dosen't make you furious (your either a public servant or work in the motor industry).

I pay enough tax in this country without getting fupped over for my love of motors...

Check out what you can pick up a Mazda RX8 in Northern Ireland for and then check out the VRT to drive it a mile down the Road.

Don't be defending the indefensible, it's not funny...

Guy:Incognito

drunkmonkey wrote: »

here's your linky http://www.rte.ie/news/2002/0919/VRT.html :rolleyes:, google a bit harder and you'll find more, look up the poland case for example , btw it's now 2009 and there still screwing us like hookers down a dark alley..
...

Seriously? that same tired link that the "it's illegal" crowd have been draggin gup since it was published nearly 7 years ago?


A court ruling from 2002 is not an ongoing case, and VRT is still here and in other countries.
It's a reference to the Finnish system and even then its only "aspects " of it.

Every country charges a registration fee afaik, it's just very small in some of them. If it was illegal, a fee, regardless of how small wouldnt be getting paid anywhere.

Seriously, come up with somethign decent (nd new if possible).

The EU can call for whatever they like and throw recommendations around like confetti but if it was illegal they could just put a stop to it instantly.

LoveDucati2

stekelly

this guy is a civil servant, this is what the European law says now, I want this to be a valid discussion and not an argument with some retard who doesnt know when to shut up


VRT was introduced as a replacement for an illegal import duty

In 2002 the European Court of Justice ruled that aspects of VRT constitute a form of double taxation and are therefore illegal under the EU treaty. It also hinders free trade.

The European Commission has also called for the abolition of vehicle registration tax in the EU. Until its abolished they said that states should ensure that their VRT systems did not discriminate by imposing a double taxation burden on motorists importing second hand cars from other member states

There is a clear case that could be taken here on Irish VRT double taxation

Guy:Incognito

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

stekelly

this guy is a civil servant, this is what the European law says now, I want this to be a valid discussion and not an argument with some retard who doesnt know when to shut up

Any chance of throing a bit of punctuation in there so we know where sentences end and who they refer to?

Are you replying to me or calling me a civil servant?

I'm not, and even if I was, why would be the point of me defendign VRT? It's not like I'd be on commision or it's a private company that would fold if it were gotten rid of. Civil servant sdont gain anythign from collecting VRT.

That same stupid link has been trotted out loads of times down the years, it doesnt chnage anything.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

VRT was introduced as a replacement for an illegal import duty

Exactly, an illegal tax was replaced with a legal one.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

In 2002 the European Court of Justice ruled that aspects of VRT constitute a form of double taxation and are therefore illegal under the EU treaty. It also hinders free trade.

The European Commission has also called for the abolition of vehicle registration tax in the EU. Until its abolished they said that states should ensure that their VRT systems did not discriminate by imposing a double taxation burden on motorists importing second hand cars from other member states

There is a clear case that could be taken here on Irish VRT double taxation

So if it's so plainly illegal, why is it still here? and why is there countries with higher rates than ours?

Surely this groundshaking ruling in 2002 equalised tax actross the EU by elimintaing VRT? Whats that you say? it didnt?

peasant

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

There is a clear case that could be taken here on Irish VRT double taxation

You can be assured of the full moral support of this forum should you take it upon yourself to take this to the European courts.

But please stop moaning here ...it's been done to death.

drunkmonkey

Stekelly wrote: »

Civil servant dont gain anythign from collecting VRT.

ah hello, they get to keep there overpaid Jobs, rather than streamlining the whole process and cutting out the red tape... I wonder does the cost of running the whole VRT procress out way what they actually make? charge €2000 import duty on every used car and leave it at that.... I work 80+ hours a week, I don't need to be screwed just to drive home for work in a car I like...

It was ruiled it was illegal and ireland was pulled up on it, but they have bought some time (i will get you the proper links later), i'm off to do my vat return and try and keep some honest people in a job for a little while longer..

LoveDucati2

Thanks Drunk, glad you are here and that you talk some sense compared to the Tallaght civil service and VRT lovers brethern.

Stekelly

I will try and make this simple for you

VRT was introduced as a replacement for an illegal import duty

ok are you still with us

In 2002 the European Court of Justice ruled that aspects of VRT constitute a form of double taxation and are therefore illegal under the EU treaty.


This is final

peasant wrote: »

You can be assured of the full moral support of this forum should you take it upon yourself to take this to the European courts.

But please stop moaning here ...it's been done to death.

Sorry I do not mean to moan, I want support and ideas from all of your viewers on what to do from here on in.

There is another Irish courtcase, going on 11 years with no final judgement yet,

Judgment Title: Used Car Importers of Ireland Limited v The Minister for Finance & Ors

Neutral Citation: [2006] IEHC 90


High Court Record Number:1995 1988P

Date of Delivery:01/03/2006

VRT cases in other countries such as Finland and Belguim.

The Belgian case is excellent because he is looking for the VRT to be refunded on cars exported out of the country, can you imagine buying an 06 Jaguar 2.7 TDVI for €40k and getting a refund of ...you guessed it €24k to export to UK. Do the math on an 08 S class 500, VRT refund of 40k +.

Guy:Incognito

drunkmonkey wrote: »

ah hello, they get to keep there overpaid Jobs.

Eh hello, the only differnce if it was abolished would be the handing over of large amounts of money (ther'd still be a nominal fee). The rest of the registration process would still have to be done.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Thanks Drunk, glad you are here and that you talk some sense compared to the Tallaght civil service and VRT lovers brethern.

Stekelly

I will try and make this simple for you

VRT was introduced as a replacement for an illegal import duty

ok are you still with us

In 2002 the European Court of Justice ruled that aspects of VRT constitute a form of double taxation and are therefore illegal under the EU treaty.


This is final




Sorry I do not mean to moan, I want support and ideas from all of your viewers on what to do from here on in.

There is another Irish courtcase, going on 11 years with no final judgement yet,

Judgment Title: Used Car Importers of Ireland Limited v The Minister for Finance & Ors

Neutral Citation: [2006] IEHC 90


High Court Record Number:1995 1988P

Date of Delivery:01/03/2006

VRT cases in other countries such as Finland and Belguim.

The Belgian case is excellent because he is looking for the VRT to be refunded on cars exported out of the country, can you imagine buying an 06 Jaguar 2.7 TDVI for €40k and getting a refund of ...you guessed it €24k to export to UK. Do the math on an 08 S class 500, VRT refund of 40k +.

I cant even see all that muck properly, nevermind read it.

You still havnt told us why it's still here if the EU have outlawed it. Surely it's an open and shut case and the Irish government are beign fined huge sums for breakign the law? No?didnt think so.


If its so plainly illegal, why are these cases taking so long?

If it's so plainly illegal why dont YOU take on this unloseable case?

When you first staer about court cases you talked about the one going on 7 years, I assume that wasnt the one in the RTE link? because a ruling is doen at the end of a case, ie , when its finished.

Drummerboy08

Can i complain about a law so? I dont like the way you have to pay motor tax. I've pais enough tax on my car, so why should i pay more every year?

I can complain all i want here, but at the end of the day, the law is the law, If you dont want to pay VRT on a car, then i suggest you buy a bicycle. If you dont want to pay VRT on a car, then bring it to Dick Roche. He can be found in the swimming pool most mornings till 11....;)

Seriously, VRT HAS to be paid, i cant see the Government cutting a large source of income by reducing it, so i suggest you get your solicitor to talk to the boys in brussels.

Can we please move on to a different topic now? Like whats the best car you can buy for a tenner or something? Please? This is so old now.

Summary.

VRT = Law in ireland. If you dont like it, or agree with it, tough.

Sorry for the rant.

peasant

Ducati ...I've had it now

You're the one shouting for a "proper discussion", yet you're also the one attacking members personally.

End of discussion.

Now, take a deep breath, cool down and don't start another crusade for a while ...my patience is wearing thin.