Hanging stuff on dry-lined walls

fozzle

So we've a new house and all the walls are drylined. Neither of us have any clue how this affects hanging pictures and curtain poles and the like. Are they a big no-no? I'm afraid of ripping chunks out of my walls. Should I use extra-long screws/nails? Help!

311

If your in a new house ,you can't go wrong with a stud detector. They are available in B&Q ,I got a stanley one in Lidl/aldi last year and it's very handy.

You can screw straight into the timber without much hassle.

http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=STUD+SENSORS&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=77-110&SDesc=Stanley%26%23174%3B+Stud+Sensor+100%26%238482%3B

byte

There are a fair few fixings available for studded walls (as itt's a new house, I presume it's a wooden framed house?)

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/inffastener/infanchor/infanchor.html
Some of the more common solutions for drylined situations

I've used the "threaded drywall anchors" and impressed. However, less impressivve were the Rawlplug winged plastic anchors. I've also found the "molly bolts" very good. For curtain poles, where there might be a fair bit of weight, I'd suggest either those molly bolts, or better still, the toggle bolts.

Even better would be of course if you could screw into the timbers behind the plasterboard, but you'll need a way of finding them and they may not be where you want them).

For pictures, those white plastic picture hooks with an array of small pins should do the job, unless the pictures are very heavy.

fozzle

Argh, sorry, I wasn't clear enough, the house is new to us, but not a new build - early 1900s I think. Definately not a woodframe I'm afraid.

byte

fozzle wrote: »

Argh, sorry, I wasn't clear enough, the house is new to us, but not a new build - early 1900s I think. Definately not a woodframe I'm afraid.

Sorry, dunno why I even mentioned it. Same rules would apply either way. Both have plasterboard walls.

fozzle

okay, so go with the same anchors you think? Bracket for a curtain pole got ripped out the other day (grabbed the curtain when I tripped). The previous residents had stuck it up with just the screws that came with it, it wasn't pretty.

cork1

if its a stud wall as mentioned get a stud detecter. if its a masonry wall which has been dry lined then you need long plugs and screws. they need to be long enough to go through the dry lining into the block.make sure you have a good inch of the fixing in the block

mallet head

cork1 wrote: »

if its a stud wall as mentioned get a stud detecter. if its a masonry wall which has been dry lined then you need long plugs and screws. they need to be long enough to go through the dry lining into the block.make sure you have a good inch of the fixing in the block

100% the way to go if you are hanging anything heavy. I'd go more than an inch into the block though.

fozzle

Pretty sure it's masonry, but to be honest, I have no idea what a stud wall is, I shall go and research.:o

Thanks guys.

311

Sheets of plasterboard come in 8ft x 4ft. They are always screwed or nailed onto timber studs.

Sometimes it's just timber studs (frame) dividing a room ,with plasterboard screwed to it and plastered. Or it's an outside block wall with lenghts of timber (studs) so you can screw the plasterboard to that.

fozzle

Thanks 311 - I've almost always lived in much older houses so it's not something I'd ever encountered.

311

fozzle wrote: »

Thanks 311 - I've almost always lived in much older houses so it's not something I'd ever encountered.

What you can do if your not sure ,if it's a curtain your hanging it's going to be an outside wall.
Get a really thin screwdriver and pierce a hole into the wall down low somewhere ,that you won't notice. This will give you an idea of how deep the timber holding the plasterboard is.

If it's not too deep ,you should be able to drill into the wall behind it.
If it's very deep ,you should try and get a curtain pole to suit the studs that are in the wall.
It would be easier to do it that way ,than hanging a heavy curtain on plasterboard only.

fozzle

That's great. It's mostly for hanging pictures - most of the rooms I want poles in already have them up, but I'll definately do that. Thanks!

cork1

311 wrote: »

Sheets of plasterboard come in 8ft x 4ft. They are always screwed or nailed onto timber studs.

just to point one thing out. if its an old house there wont be plasterboard. before plasterboard they nail thin strips of timber to the studs leaving a small gap in between they then plastered over the lot. so if you use the srew driver method and it wont go into the give it a good flake with a hammer.

311

cork1 wrote: »

just to point one thing out. if its an old house there wont be plasterboard. before plasterboard they nail thin strips of timber to the studs leaving a small gap in between they then plastered over the lot. so if you use the srew driver method and it wont go into the give it a good flake with a hammer.

Yeah ,if thats the way it's done you can screw straight into them with small screws ,if it's pictures your hanging.

That type of wall though is only ever a dividing wall within the house. Most of the time ,it's houses with high ceilings that have walls like this. Georgian red brick.

fozzle

Not Georgian, more like this http://www.derrygiff.co.uk/images/farmhouse.jpg

311

very nice house I must say ,the walls are likely to be as cork1 has said so.
Not sure about your outside walls though ,they might have just been dry lined to insulate the house at a later date.
Mostly work in Dublin ,so not use to the farmhouses as much. Have seen some made from turf though and chalk believe it or not:D

fozzle

*nods* sorry I should have said, the drylining is pretty recent compared to the house. I thought it was always a post-build thing.

And yeah, I've seen turf builds - never chalk though! My parents' house doesn't even have foundations and it's still a heck of a lot more modern than that!

rossie08

Just a quick note on stud walls and stud drylining the uprights will generally be at 400mm centers ie if the stud is made from 3X2 or 4X2 timber the uprights from center to center of each one will be 400mm. Easy way to check is take off a plug socket or tv socket cover and take out the dry lining box if the back of the board is fibreglass or rockwool then is stud if its a foam backed board usually 40mm or 45mm foam backed these are attached as boards direct using plastic plugs to attach then to the original walls. The final way which is a cowboy way which is dab and slab where the attach plasterboard slabs to the original wall with dabs of bonding and insulate via airpocket, as I say this is the cowboy way but have come accross it a few times. If its stud and you have to hang something heavy like a TV simply get 3/4" ply between 2 studs and then screw into this, would only use spax screws for this type of operation. If its foam you will need 90 to 100mm wall fixings to ensure enough purchace to the wall behind boarding, if its dab and slab call a solicitor.

gsxr1

If it is framed then its unliky that you will find a stud where you need it for a curtain pole.

There will be a studs running parallel on both corner sides of the window opening which is the wrong place for curtain brackets.

As 311 suggested . Try the threaded plugs. Go for the metal type.

they get a really good grip . I have used them for curtains in the past for peeps. B@Q only do the plastic type which are sh*te.

Building provider sell the good stuff


As for TV brackets. Just find one stud. That's all you need.

rossie08

Hi gxr1 when was the last time you hung a 42" - 27kg screen from a 3x2 or lets look at a 50" 35kg. Advise on what you know and have done not on what you presume to know, your advice in general is good but when a €1,500 tv falls off a wall on top of someone then you better be prepared for the fallout.

gsxr1

rossie08 wrote: »

Hi gxr1 when was the last time you hung a 42" - 27kg screen from a 3x2 or lets look at a 50" 35kg. Advise on what you know and have done not on what you presume to know, your advice in general is good but when a €1,500 tv falls off a wall on top of someone then you better be prepared for the fallout.

He never stated the size of the tv. Or the size of studs. Or in fact mentioned TV brackets.

You will get at least 2 5mm or 6 mm screws into a stud. Which you could
hang any small to medium size tv off. If its bigger then I would expect the installer to use a little common sense .
I have hung a few TVs in the past , but as a chippy I tent to frame more walls than hang TVs.

Your telling him to call his solicitor if his wall was dabbed. A method that is in common use in the trade and saves near 10" of room space as opposed to 4X2 framing. Its hardly cow boy unless the wall needs insulation!
I am presuming his wall is a normal framed or battened wall.


I could quite make out this part of your post ..Quote:

Easy way to check is take off a plug socket or tv socket cover and take out the dry lining box if the back of the board is fibreglass or rockwool then is stud if its a foam backed board usually 40mm or 45mm foam backed these are attached as boards direct using plastic plugs to attach then to the original walls.

I presume you are talking about Composite plaster board. Which are Mushroomed fixed. Which can in fact are usually fixed to studs or battens using 70mm drywall screws.
I would also never advise anyone to take off the cover of an electrical outlet cover with out isolating the supply.

rossie08

Hi I will deal with each point as it arises

A: He never stated the size of the tv. Or the size of studs. Or in fact mentioned TV brackets.
- Correct and in most cases in living rooms the standard install is for a 42" TV which you can attach directly to 1 stud not advisable or if the bracket allows across 2 / 3 studs which would be the recomended approach else board on the studs and bracket to the board.

B: You will get at least 2 5mm or 6 mm screws into a stud. Which you could hang any small to medium size tv off. If its bigger then I would expect the installer to use a little common sense .
Correct

I have hung a few TVs in the past , but as a chippy I tent to frame more walls than hang TVs.

C: Your telling him to call his solicitor if his wall was dabbed. A method that is in common use in the trade and saves near 10" of room space as opposed to 4X2 framing. Its hardly cow boy unless the wall needs insulation!
I am presuming his wall is a normal framed or battened wall.
-Depends but here I stand corrected I looked at the picture and saw an older farmhouse type building which I made the presumption was renovated for insulation and in this case if it was dabbed and slabbed it would be a poor job. Also do a lot of work for new bild develpers majority of whom abhore dab and slab as a cheap alternative to correctly building a house.

I could quite make out this part of your post ..Quote:

Easy way to check is take off a plug socket or tv socket cover and take out the dry lining box if the back of the board is fibreglass or rockwool then is stud if its a foam backed board usually 40mm or 45mm foam backed these are attached as boards direct using plastic plugs to attach then to the original walls.

I presume you are talking about Composite plaster board. Which are Mushroomed fixed. Which can in fact are usually fixed to studs or battens using 70mm drywall screws.
-Thanks for the info on the the mushroom fixings couldn't think of the name last night.
- Why would someone using a 55 mm boarding increase the incroachment into the space in the room by attaching it to a 75mm board attached to a wall. Have never seen this in all the installations I have done over the past ten year where the house is a concrete build but I do appreciate it could happen and in wooden framed houses would be a common practice at one time whereas now they use sprayed insulation.

E: I would also never advise anyone to take off the cover of an electrical outlet cover with out isolating the supply.

You are quite correct here but like you I would presume common sense would prevail. By doing this though the home owner would be able to see exactly what is behind their plasterwork and then know for certain what approach to take.

Does this sufice as an explanation from me as to my post or do I need to clarify further. As I already stated you offer good advice and I appreciate your comments on my advice and feel that I have adequately accepted the flaws in mine and will endeavour to pay closer attention to advice offered in the future.

gsxr1

rossie08 wrote: »

Hi I will deal with each point as it arises

-Thanks for the info on the the mushroom fixings couldn't think of the name last night.
- Why would someone using a 55 mm boarding increase the incroachment into the space in the room by attaching it to a 75mm board attached to a wall. Have never seen this in all the installations I have done over the past ten year where the house is a concrete build but I do appreciate it could happen and in wooden framed houses would be a common practice at one time whereas now they use sprayed insulation.

A composite plaster board or insulated slab would be screwed to a stud to increase the thermal efficiency of the room.

I was looking into starting a spray foam insulation business last year but decided against it as it is not yet popular in this country .
Apart from one big francise company , hardly anyone does it, Although I could see it become popular in the near future for people trying to increase there BER rating on older buildings.

.

newmills

rossie08 wrote: »

Just a quick note on stud walls and stud drylining the uprights will generally be at 400mm centers ie if the stud is made from 3X2 or 4X2 timber the uprights from center to center of each one will be 400mm. Easy way to check is take off a plug socket or tv socket cover and take out the dry lining box if the back of the board is fibreglass or rockwool then is stud if its a foam backed board usually 40mm or 45mm foam backed these are attached as boards direct using plastic plugs to attach then to the original walls. The final way which is a cowboy way which is dab and slab where the attach plasterboard slabs to the original wall with dabs of bonding and insulate via airpocket, as I say this is the cowboy way but have come accross it a few times. If its stud and you have to hang something heavy like a TV simply get 3/4" ply between 2 studs and then screw into this, would only use spax screws for this type of operation. If its foam you will need 90 to 100mm wall fixings to ensure enough purchace to the wall behind boarding, if its dab and slab call a solicitor.

Jesus if "dab and slab" means call a solicitor then the boom times for the legal eagles is back on. "Dab and slab" is used a hell of a lot still in this country and when done properly is a very good job. If you look up the gypsum white book it is recommended for insulated boards - they even show you the correct application techniques. I recently slabbed a former embassy house on Ailsebury Rd in ballsbridge and on the external walls I stuck the insulated board using lafarge sticking compound. It was done that way as specified by the architect and without blowing my own trumpet (:D) it turned out very well!!

fozzle

Thanks guys. I *think* my dad has a stud detector, so I'll borrow that first. If it turns out I don't have studs well my mate's partner is a builder so I'll get him to take a look.

Don't worry about our tv - it *is* a 42" but we've a stand for it. As for remembering to isolate the electricity supply, well I was changing plugs and sockets at 10 or 11, I should remember. But it might turn out helpful for someone else reading so it's no harm to mention it.

Oh, and I'm a girl