Anglo Irish Banks - a new addition to Public Sector

NewDubliner · 15-01-2009 10:00pm #1

The Government has announced plans to take complete control of Anglo Irish Bank, saying its previous plan to inject money into the bank is not the best way to secure its viability...The Government had planned to inject €1.5bn into the bank, taking 75% of the voting rights in the process....

Does this mean we just saved ourselves 1.5bn?

Will the Anglo staff have their pay adjusted?

jmayo · 15-01-2009 10:12pm

NewDubliner wrote: »

From RTE

Does this mean we just saved ourselves 1.5bn?

Will the Anglo staff have their pay adjusted?

That is interesting since there is upcoming shareholder meeting in Mansion house.
Know a few of shareholders and they aren't happy campers

Also Kenny is supposedly going to quesiton in Dail (whenever they return) why the place should be wound down.

NewDubliner · 15-01-2009 10:15pm

jmayo wrote: »

That is interesting since there is upcoming shareholder meeting in Mansion house.
Know a few of shareholders and they aren't happy campers
Also Kenny is supposedly going to quesiton in Dail (whenever they return) why the place should be wound down.

It might buy the government some time as they won't compensate the shareholders until they've figured out what the bank is actually worth?

The shareholders can only blame the bank's management.

uberwolf · 15-01-2009 10:21pm

NewDubliner wrote: »

they won't compensate the shareholders

The company requires nationalisation as it is no longer a viable stand alone entity. The shareholders invested to make a return, and accepted a risk in order to make this return. There is no need to compensate them.

jlang · 15-01-2009 10:21pm

Should shed some light on how indebted the big property players are, or will the new owners of the bank be as reluctant to mark-to-market as the old? I can't see any return to normality until there's major bankruptcy among the developers and a fire sale of their assets.

Mr.Micro · 15-01-2009 10:39pm

Might come in handy for a bit of money laundering. It should have been let go to the wall. Bailing it out and now owning it was done for who? Property developers or cronies or both? Will the IMF have to be called in to Ireland?

AlekSmart · 15-01-2009 11:07pm

Hmmm...I wonder what the Dublin Docklands Development Authority will make of this....effectively their "preferred" bank now becomes at one with them....:)

quad_red · 15-01-2009 11:07pm

jlang wrote: »

Should shed some light on how indebted the big property players are, or will the new owners of the bank be as reluctant to mark-to-market as the old? I can't see any return to normality until there's major bankruptcy among the developers and a fire sale of their assets.

Not. a. chance.

We won't find out the true extent of what happened for a long time.

mike65 · 15-01-2009 11:11pm

The interesting angle to all this is the relationship between Anglo-Irish bank and Sean Quinn Inc.

Oracle · 15-01-2009 11:13pm

Could the government develop Anglo into the much talked about, but never launched, "third force" in banking? This seems to be the perfect opportunity, albeit at the most difficult time.

Colonel Sanders · 15-01-2009 11:14pm

Shane Ross sounded like a man with a lot of questions he wanted answering on primetime.

If something is rotten in the state of the banana republic will this make it more or less likely that these will be answered?

The_Conductor · 15-01-2009 11:15pm

Oracle wrote: »

Could the government develop Anglo into the much talked about, but never launched, "third force" in banking? This seems to be the perfect opportunity, albeit at the most difficult time.

Alternatively- could the government transform Anglo Irish into the bank which the other retail banks could offload their dubious loans at a discount into- and in this manner clean up AIB, BOI etc of their odious loan books?

stepbar · 15-01-2009 11:19pm

uberwolf wrote: »

The company requires nationalisation as it is no longer a viable stand alone entity. The shareholders invested to make a return, and accepted a risk in order to make this return. There is no need to compensate them.

As much as I agree with you, I don't see it happen. Sean Quinn was some fool.

Mr.Micro · 15-01-2009 11:22pm

smccarrick wrote: »

Alternatively- could the government transform Anglo Irish into the bank which the other retail banks could offload their dubious loans at a discount into- and in this manner clean up AIB, BOI etc of their odious loan books?

That's what may well happen, all the toxic debt put in to the Anglo and no trace back to all the cronies.

The_Conductor · 15-01-2009 11:22pm

stepbar wrote: »

As much as I agree with you, I don't see it happen. Sean Quinn was some fool.

Have they ever figured out what his loans actually came to? First it was 83m, then 87m then there was a statement that there were/are further loans that have not yet been audited...... What the hell- he was using the bank like his personal piggy bank.....

The_Conductor · 15-01-2009 11:23pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

That's what may well happen, all the toxic debt put in to the Anglo and no trace back to all the cronies.

Aka- all the property developers and builders who used to frequent the now defunct tent at the Galway races.......

stepbar · 15-01-2009 11:24pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

That's what may well happen, all the toxic debt put in to the Anglo and no trace back to all the cronies.

Lol no trace back? Every loan in this country is approved by at least a credit dept and a manager, so there's trace back.

gurramok · 15-01-2009 11:27pm

One thing hasn't been mentioned yet here, it looks like the state is taking on all Anglo's debt now. We're talking billions of euro in a time of a national balance sheet crisis, i just hope Lenihan knows what he is doing.

Mr.Micro · 15-01-2009 11:27pm

smccarrick wrote: »

Have they ever figured out what his loans actually came to? First it was 83m, then 87m then there was a statement that there were/are further loans that have not yet been audited...... What the hell- he was using the bank like his personal piggy bank.....

All the while the Financial Regulator knew about this in 2007 but did nothing, only claiming the other day at the Oireachtas that it did not do anything at the time because of the banking crisis, only there was no banking crisis in 2007.

Mr.Micro · 15-01-2009 11:28pm

stepbar wrote: »

Lol no trace back? Every loan in this country is approved by at least a credit dept and a manager, so there's trace back.

yes, that's for us regular folk.

stepbar · 15-01-2009 11:29pm

jlang wrote: »

Should shed some light on how indebted the big property players are, or will the new owners of the bank be as reluctant to mark-to-market as the old? I can't see any return to normality until there's major bankruptcy among the developers and a fire sale of their assets.

You can be guarenteed that every large developer is exposed to Anglo. What the likes of AIB / BOI were declining (from existing connections), Anglo was approving. The likes of McNamara, Dunne etc just hopped over to Anglo when AIB / BOI declined.

stepbar · 15-01-2009 11:31pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

yes, that's for us regular folk.

And what would that be of any interest to Joe Public? So same can bitch about it in the pub? The damage has been done, Joe Public won't change that.

uberwolf · 15-01-2009 11:32pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

yes, that's for us regular folk.

Anti Money Laundering requirements allow little scope for maneuver. The borrower, the ultimate controlling entity and every step in between over 25% shareholding are fully documented with the directors for each required to provide d/l or pp, along with 2 forms of address verification.

nesf · 15-01-2009 11:33pm

uberwolf wrote: »

The company requires nationalisation as it is no longer a viable stand alone entity. The shareholders invested to make a return, and accepted a risk in order to make this return. There is no need to compensate them.

I disagree, the State should have to compensate shareholders when it takes over a company by law, just to ensure that the State can't abuse this power. Bear in mind that any compensation that Anglo shareholders should receive at market value would be relative peanuts but giving the State the power to seize companies without fairly compensating their owners is a dangerous step I think.

Mr.Micro · 15-01-2009 11:34pm

I will bet that all the toxic debt will be buried in the Anglo and then the Government will close the bank in a relatively short time, it will another bailout only in a different guise.

Het-Field · 15-01-2009 11:34pm

Another thundering disgrace. This Government is now resorting to communism to try and slither its way out of this debacle.

A bank which is guilty of reckless financial decisions should be allowed fall flat on its face. It is just like any other business. The taxpayer should not be asked to bail this company out. I am feeling robbed.

stepbar · 15-01-2009 11:36pm

gurramok wrote: »

One thing hasn't been mentioned yet here, it looks like the state is taking on all Anglo's debt now. We're talking billions of euro in a time of a national balance sheet crisis, i just hope Lenihan knows what he is doing.

It only becomes a problem if there's large writedowns. As long as the companies / individuals involved are making repayments there isn't a problem, regardless of the value of the asset. Not all the debt can be considered writeoff. I hope now that we will see a proper audit of Anglo's books to determine how many stressed loans are in the book and a indication given as to how much the state could be liable for.

Mr.Micro · 15-01-2009 11:39pm

uberwolf wrote: »

Anti Money Laundering requirements allow little scope for maneuver. The borrower, the ultimate controlling entity and every step in between over 25% shareholding are fully documented with the directors for each required to provide d/l or pp, along with 2 forms of address verification.

There appears to have been absolutely no regulation up to now, which is why our financial system is in a very bad way. Most of the same people are still in the banking system, so I will not hold my breath as to regulations being adhered to, let alone applied. The public will never know the full extent of the crisis.

Oracle · 15-01-2009 11:40pm

Of course the government did the right thing to nationalise Anglo. But it all comes across as too little, too late. As well as looking impulsive and unplanned. They're not the characteristics of a government that's decisive, informed and in charge.

uberwolf · 15-01-2009 11:41pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

There appears to have been absolutely no regulation up to now, which is why our financial system is in a very bad way. Most of the same people are still in the banking system, so I will not hold my breath as to regulations being adhered to, let alone applied. The public will never know the full extent of the crisis.

Department of Justice is responsible for money laundering requirements.

The Banks don't know the full extent of the crisis yet, so the public are not far behind

stepbar · 15-01-2009 11:42pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I will bet that all the toxic debt will be buried in the Anglo and then the Government will close the bank in a relatively short time, it will another bailout only in a different guise.

And Man Utd to win 3-0 at the weekend :rolleyes: Will ya stop coming out with simplistic soundbites.

Anglo Irish Banks - a new addition to Public Sector

Comments