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Anglo Irish Banks - a new addition to Public Sector

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245

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    #32
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    uberwolf wrote: »
    Department of Justice is responsible for money laundering requirements.

    The Banks don't know the full extent of the crisis yet, so the public are not far behind ;)

    Either way whoever, they were all asleep and a guy giving himself loans of 85 million and none of the watchdogs batted an eyelid.


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    #33
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    There appears to have been absolutely no regulation up to now, which is why our financial system is in a very bad way. Most of the same people are still in the banking system, so I will not hold my breath as to regulations being adhered to, let alone applied. The public will never know the full extent of the crisis.

    No regulations? Lol. Every bank signed up to the Basel accord would have been required to set aside capital for each and every loan approved. The Irish system is one of the most regulated in the world. You take what you want out of that one. The US on the other hand is not.


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    #34
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    stepbar wrote: »
    And Man Utd to win 3-0 at the weekend :rolleyes: Will ya stop coming out with simplistic soundbites.

    It will be true, as it is really the only way that the orther banks can start a clean slate. The IMF may be waiting to run the finances, that's how bad the situation may be.


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    #35
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Either way whoever, they were all asleep and a guy giving himself loans of 85 million and none of the watchdogs batted an eyelid.

    Ah sure he divied himself up an 85mill loan :rolleyes:


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    #36
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    It will be true, as it is really the only way that the orther banks can start a clean slate. The IMF may be waiting to run the finances, that's how bad the situation may be.

    Aw here I've heard enough. The guy who came out with that comment admitted that he was talking through his hat just like yourself.


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    #37
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    stepbar wrote: »
    No regulations? Lol. Every bank signed up to the Basel accord would have been required to set aside capital for each and every loan approved. The Irish system is one of the most regulated in the world. You take what you want out of that one. The US on the other hand is not.

    If the regulations were applied but they were not, hence the financial mess and bailouts.


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    #38
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    If the regulations were applied but they were not, hence the financial mess and bailouts.

    That's so simplictic that it's not worth commenting on.....


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    #39
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    I will bet that all the toxic debt will be buried in the Anglo and then the Government will close the bank in a relatively short time, it will another bailout only in a different guise.

    No, folding the company removes a bad entity from the market. Bailing them out would leave them there to do more damage. So utterly different things.
    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    There appears to have been absolutely no regulation up to now, which is why our financial system is in a very bad way.

    What world are you living in, there's loads of regulation, it just wasn't good or targeted enough!

    Christ, it really is depressing when this stuff jumps from the pink to the white pages.


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    #40
    capture3
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭capture3


    Lets see how the Freedom of Information Act works here after take over by the state. Another lame duck to carry for generations.


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    #41
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    stepbar wrote: »
    That's so simplictic that it's not worth commenting on.....

    So simple that it is fact, as the whole country knows now to its cost.


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    #42
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    So simple that it is fact, as the whole country knows now to their cost.

    Is it really? According to you? lol Since when did you become the bearer of all that is "fact"?


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    #43
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    What world are you living in, there's loads of regulation, it just wasn't good or targeted enough!

    which amounts to what?


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    #44
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    which amounts to what?

    It doesn't in any logical sense equate to no regulation no matter what silly way you try to twist it.


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    #45
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    nesf wrote: »
    It doesn't in any logical sense equate to no regulation no matter what silly way you try to twist it.

    If regulation exists and it is not applied adequately and properly then it might as well not exist, thats my point.


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    #46
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    If regulation exists and it is not applied adequately and properly then it might as well not exist, thats my point.

    So you're saying because parts of the regulation didn't work that we should dump same? Yep try that and we wouldn't be too far off what's happening in places like Zimbabwe.....


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    #47
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Anyhow (on a lighter note), I welcome our new Public Sector employees. I wonder will there be as much oppostion to a paycut unlike our friends in the CPSU? (www.cpsu.ie - Rep was on Six One news tonight)


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    #48
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    stepbar wrote: »
    So you're saying because parts of the regulation didn't work that we should dump same? Yep try that and we wouldn't be too far off what's happening in places like Zimbabwe.....

    No, I am suggesting that the regulations were not always applied in the banking system over the last number of years. Proof of that is perhaps the financial mess that the banks are in at the minute. I quoted an example some way back of what the financial regulators office said at the Oireachtas the other day as a reason for not taking issue with the Anglo in 2007.


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    #49
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    No, I am suggesting that the regulations were not always applied in the banking system over the last number of years. Proof of that is perhaps the financial mess that the banks are in at the minute. I quoted an example some way back of what the financial regulators office said at the Oireachtas the other day as a reason for not taking issue with the Anglo in 2007.

    Can you tell me what wrongdoings were carrried out (apart from morally)? The financial mess the banks etc are in stems from the US and sub prime, and a total freezing of interbank lending as a result. So getting back to what you've said, you're saying that because parts of the system didn't work that we should discount same as being useless?


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    #50
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    stepbar wrote: »
    Can you tell me what wrongdoings were carrried out (apart from morally)? The financial mess the banks etc are in stems from the US and sub prime, and a total freezing of interbank lending as a result. So getting back to what you've said, you're saying that because parts of the system didn't work that we should discount same as being useless?

    Are you saying that the regulation has worked then? Also if a bank is required to put capital by for every loan it gives why then did all the banks need a bailout? We can blame the US all we like, we are supposed to regulate our own system, and if parts of a regulatory system do not work why keep them?


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    #51
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    stepbar wrote: »
    It only becomes a problem if there's large writedowns. As long as the companies / individuals involved are making repayments there isn't a problem, regardless of the value of the asset. Not all the debt can be considered writeoff. I hope now that we will see a proper audit of Anglo's books to determine how many stressed loans are in the book and a indication given as to how much the state could be liable for.

    That's the big question alright. Its just very scary reading of whats down the line.
    Can developers on devaluing assets keep making those payments as we're not even half way through this housing crash?
    Regarding my comment about Lenihan, i really hope and pray he knows what the loan book is really like and anticipate these write-offs in the future as we're talking a potential of billions, its disturbing thats all.

    It'll be interesting what the economic commentators will think about this in tomorrows papers!


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    #52
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2008/07/20/story34576.asp
    Just days before Quinn moved to convert his CFD position into Anglo shares he struck a deal to give Anglo - of all banks - a charge over key preference shares in the entire Quinn business empire. It raises the question of whether Anglo lent Quinn the money to buy the shares. If not, what was the loan for? Quinn is not commenting.

    Such charges are a normal part of run-of-the-mill banking business, when lenders advance money to a customer and seek security over their loan to ensure that they will get their money back if the loan is not repaid in full.

    They also tie the hands of borrowers, who cannot sell or otherwise transfer those shares while the loan is outstanding, unless the bank agrees first.

    Although Quinn told the world last week how much he had been impressed by Anglo’s performance in recent years, it is less well known that he has also been a longstanding customer of the bank.

    His latest move transforms the nature of their relationship. Far from being a distant admirer of the business, Quinn is now the number one shareholder with a vested interest in its future. He is also the single investor that Anglo chief executive David Drumm must be most conscious of.


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    #53
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    If regulation exists and it is not applied adequately and properly then it might as well not exist, thats my point.

    Eh, I don't see that point anywhere in: "There appears to have been absolutely no regulation up to now, which is why our financial system is in a very bad way."

    There are subtleties in this man, it's not a simplistic system of there being or not being regulation, no matter what sound bites have been floating around about the Financial Regulator for the past while.


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    #54
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    [/QUOTE]"There appears to have been absolutely no regulation up to now[/QUOTE]

    I used the word appears. On the news the other day about the Financial regulator knowing about the loans at Anglo and did nothing. He is leaving office on 31st Jan. Not before time IMO.


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    #55
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Are you saying that the regulation has worked then? Also if a bank is required to put capital by for every loan it gives why then did all the banks need a bailout? We can blame the US all we like, we are supposed to regulate our own system, and if parts of a regulatory system do not work why keep them?

    Stop trying to dodge the question. An stop tyring to make out you know what you're talking about.


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    #56
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    stepbar wrote: »
    Can you tell me what wrongdoings were carrried out (apart from morally)? The financial mess the banks etc are in stems from the US and sub prime, and a total freezing of interbank lending as a result. So getting back to what you've said, you're saying that because parts of the system didn't work that we should discount same as being useless?


    There is a pretty strong case for a fraud suit against the directors, one in particular. I know anglo came out and said there was nothing illegal, but than again thats like martin cahill would say.
    The US sub-prime mess is only a small part of the hole we dig for ourselves. We need to own up and admit that banking and credit standards in this country where a complete joke. The more we deny this the more likely it will happen again.


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    #57
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    stepbar wrote: »
    Stop trying to dodge the question. An stop tyring to make out you know what you're talking about.

    Answer my questions first and I will answer yours.


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    #58
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Answer my questions first and I will answer yours.

    What questions would they be?


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    #59
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    nesf wrote: »
    Eh, I don't see that point anywhere in: "There appears to have been absolutely no regulation up to now, which is why our financial system is in a very bad way."

    There are subtleties in this man, it's not a simplistic system of there being or not being regulation, no matter what sound bites have been floating around about the Financial Regulator for the past while.


    I dont think a libertarian would be the best to review our regulation standards?


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    #60
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    stepbar wrote: »
    What questions would they be?

    Post 50, but I can see there is no point in discussing this further.


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    #61
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Dob74 wrote: »
    There is a pretty strong case for a fraud suit against the directors, one in particular. I know anglo came out and said there was nothing illegal, but than again thats like martin cahill would say.
    The US sub-prime mess is only a small part of the hole we dig for ourselves. We need to own up and admit that banking and credit standards in this country where a complete joke. The more we deny this the more likely it will happen again.

    Fraud!!!! Lol are you for real :rolleyes:

    Credit standards were perfectly fine (for some banks). However unless there was a bank employing "Mystic Meg" no one would have been able to predict (for argument sake) that a loan approved in 2005 would be in default in 2008.


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