Celebrating 1916 in 2016

Grudaire

José Alaninho wrote: »

Bang on IMO. Proper egalitarian socialism completely ignored in favour of a holier-than-thou, church-backed (and controlled) autocracy. A State that was the very embodiment of hypocrisy and reason to be ashamed of what we did with our independence for the first sixty years of it.

what happened in 1982, can we celebrate that?:pac:

mirror mirror

ANYWAY,.. LETS GET BACK TO HOW TO COMMEMORATE 1916 RISING.

gurramok

mirror mirror wrote: »

ANYWAY,.. LETS GET BACK TO HOW TO COMMEMORATE 1916 RISING.

I was at the last commemoration. It was carried out pretty good but i would of preferred along with the military parade, something more of a carnival would of been appropriate once the military stuff was finished.

Something for the kids to get involved so they can have pride on their faces for their ancestors deeds.

For example, along with the streets draped in the beautiful green white and orange flag of our nation, educational sessions for any doubters as to why our heroes perished for their freedom:cool:

José Alaninho

Cliste wrote: »

what happened in 1982, can we celebrate that?:pac:

Touché

I was of course referring to the gradual separation of church and state and the liberation of our values that have taken place since the 80's/90's. The country is politically and morally still bankrupt IMO, and with the ever-present spectre of partition I feel the 26-county government cannot celebrate 1916 without reeking of hypocrisy.

Grudaire

Well assuming that we want to celebrate the event (which is increasingly less apparent) I think that they should have the parade, and all that malarkey, but also get the major sporting bodies and museums to have something relevent to the event going on (ie the involvement of GAA members in the rising, and the involvement of IRFU members in the retribution )

We can make this a Paddies day that isn't about drink.

TOMASJ

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Rebels in 1916: Not terrorists. Militarily useless insurgents who ended up costing several hundred civilians their lives, but not deliberately. Wrong, not terrorists in any real sense.

Paras: Again, not really. One tragic incident, about which the truth still hasn't entirely come out, and may never do, in which civilians were shot, but without further clarification on what happened and why, it would be unfair to call them terrorists.

"One tragic incident" the british Army were responsible for approx 360 killings most of which took place the six counties,
of which half were civilians

SAS: No, surgical strikes on the IRA are absolutely fair game. Probably the best move in British dealings in Northern Ireland was to deploy their special forces. If the IRA wanted to claim it was a legitimate war, they had to accept that they then became legitimate tactical targets, and couldn't revert to civilians when confronted by armed men.

Were these surgical strikes fair game on the innocent people murdered by these terrorist,
for instance John Boyle, a 16 year old shot in a graveyard in Dunloy Co Antrim

Loyalist paramilitaries in the north? Absolutely terrorists, every bit as bad as the IRA. Collusion (which definitely occurred, but on nothing like the scale some people seem to think)

No not on the scale people think,
but a larger scale, what we know is just the tip of the iceberg,
some of the murderers the british army and the SAS were responsible for,
Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson, Miami Show band, Seamus Ludlow, Sean McKeever, plus dozens of other non paramilitery victims.

And for the record, a lot of people would be absolutely wrong about the Israeli and US Armies

Why, because you think they and the british army are NOT terrorist

Grudaire

mirror mirror wrote: »

ANYWAY,.. LETS GET BACK TO HOW TO COMMEMORATE 1916 RISING.

... or not by the looks of things

jtb

Slideshowbob wrote: »

So in 7 years we will celebrate 100 years since or nation stood up for itself and those brave men strove for independence

any opinions on how to celebrate it?

Id hope its not celebrated at all.

Ireland has been a complete disaster since it became a state. Years of protectionism, poverty, church rule, lack of progress and most of the time steps backwards (eg. dismantling one of the best railway systems in the world). The only time the country can do well is when it spends other people's money. They have missed every single chance they had to go ahead (eg. broadband, becoming a hub destination for flights, etc.)

Hopefully by 2016 Ireland will be a state in the United States or Europe and it might actually work again.

A celebration would be a waste of time and money.

Nodin

Cliste wrote: »

We can make this a Paddies day that isn't about drink.

Steady on....

Grudaire

Down with that sort of thing?

jtb wrote: »

Id hope its not celebrated at all.

Ireland has been a complete disaster since it became a state. Years of protectionism, poverty, church rule, lack of progress and most of the time steps backwards (eg. dismantling one of the best railway systems in the world). The only time the country can do well is when it spends other people's money. They have missed every single chance they had to go ahead (eg. broadband, becoming a hub destination for flights, etc.)

Hopefully by 2016 Ireland will be a state in the United States or Europe and it might actually work again.

A celebration would be a waste of time and money.

:rolleyes: so you should celebrate people who aspire to better, and perhaps learn from them, if u got a problem ranting online generally(I assume that we can actually find a metro worthy story where a dog learned to walk again after an internet campaign) don't help the problem, do something to solve it:)

pepsicokeacola

jtb wrote: »

Id hope its not celebrated at all.

Ireland has been a complete disaster since it became a state. Years of protectionism, poverty, church rule, lack of progress and most of the time steps backwards (eg. dismantling one of the best railway systems in the world). The only time the country can do well is when it spends other people's money. They have missed every single chance they had to go ahead (eg. broadband, becoming a hub destination for flights, etc.)

Hopefully by 2016 Ireland will be a state in the United States or Europe and it might actually work again.

A celebration would be a waste of time and money.

pathetic. i do support a single european goverment though.

murphaph

pepsicokeacola wrote: »

pathetic. i do support a single european goverment though.

Why not go the whole hog and have a one-world government while you're at it? Madness.

994

roadwars wrote: »

1916 should not be celebrated as it was an act of terrorism. At the time the majority of Dubliners would have agreed with this, don’t forget only years before they were waving the union jack during the visit of the king, and the mocked the prisoners as they were paraded down the street.
All that you will be celebrating is that the British army over reacted by shooting the rebels.
Save the celebrations for a more worth while event.

Dublin had always been very pro-Union. The housewives of the Liberties may have spat on the Volunteers but opinions were very different in Tipperary or Roscommon or Kerry.

Running Bing

My god....is there a more self-loathing nation in the world?


I dont think any other nation in the free world would act with such apathy and borderline (if not full blown) hatred towards people who helped shape their country and identity.


Granted its a minority,but its a vocal one.....of course we should be thankful this is a democracy and people are allowed to air their opinions freely, and everybody is entitled to that opinion, but it is quite sad to see.:(

Sand

I dont think any other nation in the free world would act with such apathy and borderline (if not full blown) hatred towards people who helped shape their country and identity.

The British?

Kev_ps3

jtb wrote: »

Id hope its not celebrated at all.

Ireland has been a complete disaster since it became a state. Years of protectionism, poverty, church rule, lack of progress and most of the time steps backwards (eg. dismantling one of the best railway systems in the world). The only time the country can do well is when it spends other people's money. They have missed every single chance they had to go ahead (eg. broadband, becoming a hub destination for flights, etc.)

Hopefully by 2016 Ireland will be a state in the United States or Europe and it might actually work again.

A celebration would be a waste of time and money.

Yeah because under foreign rule we (the native Irish) were so much better off? Give me a break you traitor.

Deedsie

In 2016, I would hope they would do a run of the plough and the Stars at the Abbey. And some of Sean O'Caseys other plays. A Sean O'Casey Season would be good. An Irish Literary revival (Part 2)

Hopefully there will be a popularisation of the writings of Pearce and Connolly etc, Some books may be re-published.

I hope RTÉ do a season of documentaries on the participants of not only the rising, but of Irish society at the time. The GAA, Gaelic league, IRB, Volunteers, Citizen Army.

I hope the country is mature enough for our major organisations to each mark the ocassion. The FAI, IRFU and GAA should each mark the occasion.

The proclomation should be read outside the GPO, The National Anthem should be played. I think a statue of Pearce should be put up on O'Connell Street. Remove that stupid walking neon sign.

Lots of other things could be done to mark the ocassion. Hopefully something to mark the ocassion will be done in Tyrone, Fermanagh, Belfast, Derry South Down and South Armagh.

Would it be too soon for a referendum up North on peoples opinions on unification of the nation?

Erin Go Brath

Easter 1916 was the seminal event in our nations history. The men and women who bravely fought against the Empire in that episode deserve our gratitude and complete respect for puting their lives at risk attempting to free our land. There should be a major commemoration planned for the centenary with no expense spared.

I like the idea of a large monument of Pearse on O'Connell street. There should also be a series of films/tv shows, books, and theatre events which might help to explain to the public why these extraordinary people did what they did, and put the whole thing into perspective for people who mighn't know what all the fuss is about.

I just hope they don't devalue it by attempting another Easter Rising/Battle of the Somme hybrid freakshow. That really would be an insult to those patriots who lost their lives during the rising.

Poccington

gurramok wrote: »

I was at the last commemoration. It was carried out pretty good but i would of preferred along with the military parade, something more of a carnival would of been appropriate once the military stuff was finished.

Something for the kids to get involved so they can have pride on their faces for their ancestors deeds.

For example, along with the streets draped in the beautiful green white and orange flag of our nation, educational sessions for any doubters as to why our heroes perished for their freedom:cool:

I think the idea of a carnival as well as the educational side of things is really dead on. It'd be nice to make it a proper day out for Irish children to realise the chain of events that the Rising triggered as well as getting to see the military hardware which they will think is "cool" etc.

There will definitely be a military parade, there's already a bit of talk about it in work and it's quite a bit away yet :pac:

uaobrien

Actually I think we'll be invading Northern Ireland if Sean Lemass has any say in the matter:

'Some say deporting people of Unionist belief is a form of genocide, in my opinion they have a country, that country is England and I would be most happy for them to reside there, not interfering with Irish affairs North or South of the unjust border of Ireland, we must not put up with their continuous invasion and occupation of our land. I did not fight and see my brothers die for them to soil this State. I do not advocate an armed invasion of our stolen land but unless by 2016 we have our six counties I would feel it to be a must' (address to his constituency 1932)

Ooops I think I may have just given the North advanced warning of our plans.

SirHenryGrattan

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yes, and far more likely to have occurred than not, in my opinion. The entrenchment of the loyalist unionist community was coincident with the escalation of the arms race between PUL paramilitary forces and republican/nationalist forces. Without the arms race and associated violent intent, the entrenchment would have been of an insignificant minority and would not have been so popularly accepted. A parallel can be drawn between the arms race entrenching the PUL community and the executions of the volunteers in 1916 increasing Irish support for their cause. Without those executions, there would have been no Irish ill-feeling, popular support would have been for British actions, and the cascading result of the 1918 elections would not have happened. As a result, the war of independence would either not have happened, or would have been a damp squib. Similarly, if there had been no arms race, there would not have been the entrenchment of the wider PUL community (and nationalist/republican community for that matter), political cooperation would have been facilitated and the fringe elements on both sides would have been largely ignored, partition would almost certainly not have happened, a free state and consequent republic would have been achieved via home rule due to the crumbling state of the British economy through two world wars, and we'd be in a far better position now.



I think you are wrong. Partition was no more inevitable than the arms race that caused it. It came about as a result of a series of bad decisions from those with agendas of violence.



I think you're wrong and I see no supporting evidence for your conclusions here. Home Rule was of course a stepping stone, but an important and functional one. To skip straight ahead, through violent insurrection, to the free state cost the republicans Northern Ireland, and they lament and bemoan it to this day, but I've yet to see any of the people who complain about British "occupation" in the north acknowledge that it came about as a result of republican paramilitary violence and the arms race.

I suggest you read some Hansard and speeches by John Redmond before making bald statements like this.

The 1893 Home Rule bill passed the House Of Commons and but was rejected by the House of Lords. The power of the Lords to reject bills passed by the Commons was reduced to one of delay in 1911 and the Third Home Rule Bill was introduced in 1912. Carson and other Unionist politicians saw the inevitable and switched from opposing outright Home Rule for the whole of Ireland to insisting that Ulster be excluded. This was a new departure in Irish politics and was bitterly opposed by Redmond and the Nationalist camp. Militias were raised by both sides and civil war threatened over the issue and the issue was partition not Home Rule. It's also import to note that both Redmond and Carson fully supported military action in defiance of the wishes of Parliament so neither of them were the "constitutional" politicians that some people believe them to be.

Even in the aftermath of the 1916 rebellion when the British made two abortive attempts to introduce Home Rule to Ireland, Redmond twice refused to accept the exclusion of the Northern counties. So we can surmise that the chances of a deal between Redmond and Carson were zero and that the ensuing conflict between North and South would have made 1916 and the Irish Civil War combined look like a tea party.

SirHenryGrattan

uaobrien wrote: »

Actually I think we'll be invading Northern Ireland if Sean Lemass has any say in the matter:



Ooops I think I may have just given the North advanced warning of our plans.

Perhaps the political parties in the ROI should stop mouthing platitudes and "invade" the political landscape of NI by registering and contesting elections there. Then we might take their commitment to a United Ireland more seriously.

SirHenryGrattan

José Alaninho wrote: »

Touché

I was of course referring to the gradual separation of church and state and the liberation of our values that have taken place since the 80's/90's. The country is politically and morally still bankrupt IMO, and with the ever-present spectre of partition I feel the 26-county government cannot celebrate 1916 without reeking of hypocrisy.

I have studied Irish constitutional law and can tell you that legally Church and State have always been separate. However if 90% of the population share a set of common values like Catholic values then the laws of the land will reflect those values. That's called democracy.

In 2008 Arizona, California and Florida voted to ban gay marriage. In Florida the the vote was 62.1% to 37.9% in favour of the ban. Is the Catholic Church now running Florida? Is the US Constitution influenced by Catholic theology?

The "liberation of values" you refer to is very narrow and relates to sex, more specifically sex outside marriage and gay sex. Not much of a political revolution.

Erin Go Brath

SirHenryGrattan wrote: »

Perhaps the political parties in the ROI should stop mouthing platitudes and "invade" the political landscape of NI by registering and contesting elections there. Then we might take their commitment to a United Ireland more seriously.

Spot on. FF in particular are guilty here. They have maintained their position as largest political party for decades by claiming to be 'the republican party' and soundbiting about their patriotism at every opportunity, while castigating others, FG in particular about their lack of patriotism. Whenever the issue of contesting elections in the occupied counties raises its head though they manage to find some spurious reason not to do so. Their hypocrisy is staggering!

Permabear

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Irlbo

Personally in 2016 I think the South should invade the North,with the help of our Northern Brethren and expell Britain and all its elements there,but suppose you have be realistic............................................................................In spirit I think the celbrations for 2016 should be a huge no expense too high extravagansa to commemorate Irelands bravest sons,who selflessy fought a losing battle in the hope it would inspire future generations to strive for freedom,and laid the groundwork for a republic which still is far from being achieved,I think it should also commerate the republican struggle as a whole from the early days to the present day and remember all thoses who died,were imprisoned and fought for Irelands freedom,I wouldnt bother with a state sponser parade,sure they have sold out the ideals and martyrs of 1916 and have literally spit on their graves

Permabear

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Erin Go Brath

donegalfella wrote: »

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Elections for the Stormont Government etc

Permabear

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Erin Go Brath

donegalfella wrote: »

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You misunderstand me, i think. I am wondering why FF for example don't compete in the NI assembly elections. If they are to be taken seriously as a party that favours a United Ireland then it follows that they would want to represent people in all parts of Ireland.