Other life...

PDN

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Oh PDN, did you even read my post? Or are you deliberately missing the point? I said that the claims from Mars motivated me to ask this question. Did I say anything about it being true? Did I say anything about them finding microbial life? No. I asked whether, in general, if life was found, would it affect your faith.

Yes, I did read your post, but I'm beginning to wonder if you read your own post.

Fanny Cradock said this:

Fanny Cradock wrote:

Look over on the 'other side' and you will see that Christians have already stated they don't envisage the discovery of methanogens or whatever as being a threat to their faith. No new biblical interpretation is needed on their part.

You replied with this:

Jammy Dodger wrote:

You would imagine that the bible would state such a thing though, wouldn't you? It's such an important topic - you'd imagine God would have mentioned it to some prophet over the last 2 mellenia.

So I posted:

Methane gas (the same stuff that farts are composed of) found on Mars is something so important that God would have put it into the Bible?

Now, if you want, we can change that from 'methane gas' to 'methanogens'- it makes no difference to my point. None of those things have any bearing whatsoever on the important stuff of which the Bible speaks.

You know very well what I meant my intelligent life PDN. I wasn't talking about a load of being simliar to monkeys who are capable of flinging faeces at each other; I don't consider that to be very intelligent. I was talking about life that is equal, or indeed more, intelligent than us.

No, I thought you were using the term 'intelligent life' in the way that it is normally used in science journals, news reports etc. I'm sorry I misunderstood you - but I think you could have made yourself a lot clearer.

BTW, some posters here may well argue that monkeys are of equal or more intelligence than me.

What if life was found that was greatly more intelligent than us? What if they told you there was no god? Would that rattle your faith?

No, I don't think so. I prefer to think for myself rather than just accepting what others might say. An more intelligent being does not equal an infallible, or even a more honest, being.

I think both Richard Dawkins and Pope Benedict are more intelligent than me - but that doesn't stop me thinking that they both speak a load of cobblers at times.

I think it's funny. I really thought you, PDN, of all people would be slightly more grown up than that. But, to be honest, it just makes you lose all integrity.

Look, if you post something on a public forum then you expect people to critique what you say. That's nothing to do with integrity.

I've had other posters mocking me in their sigs, but neither nor the other Christian posters have been so thinskinned or petty as to start squealing about it. We just shrug our shoulders and smile.

If the poster concerned had a medical condition or something then I would be mortified and remove my sig in a flash (Zillah's response actually put that awful thought in my head). But, I always think it's funny when people who appear less than literate start dismissing theists as stupid or uneducated. This just seemed to be a particularly apt example.

Fanny Cradock

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

You know very well what I meant my intelligent life PDN. I wasn't talking about a load of being simliar to monkeys who are capable of flinging faeces at each other; I don't consider that to be very intelligent. I was talking about life that is equal, or indeed more, intelligent than us.

What if life was found that was greatly more intelligent than us? What if they told you there was no god? Would that rattle your faith?

Admittedly I only did a quick scan, but I wasn't aware that you had specified intelligent life - something I sincerely doubt we will ever come into contact with. While the notion is spine-tingling, the likelihood of a 'first contact' scenario is highly improbable. Even the detection of any ET transmissions would be the most extraordinary cosmic shot in the dark. (I've long since give up running the SETI@home programme because of this).

However, I would probably have to jack in the whole religion thing if a wormhole opened beside our planet and an alien armada popped out (each ship emblazoned with the slogan There's probably no God), descended to the Earth and sent out this message:


Puny Earthlings, we seek the one you call Dawkins. He is to autograph our copy of The God Delusion.

END TRANSMISSION

P.S. Make it out to Kodos!



Of course, while we are taking flights of fancy, it is possible that these aliens might actually confirm the notion of a Christian God.

ZondaChai

I read some questions about why the bible doesn't mention other life on other planets

Well if you didn't know, the bible wasn't written by God, it was written by a bunch of dudes who thought they knew his son. when these guys were writing it, the idea of other people on other planets wasn't even a topic of discussion, and if magical Jesus started talking to Peter about another Peter he knew who had six heads and lived on the planet flange, I think his Crucifixion may have been moved up by a few days.

Dades

Thanks eversomuch for that contribution, Zonda.

Also, I fear this thread has veered into different territory... It's become "well if THAT doesn't make you not believe, what about THIS?!"

studiorat

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

it is possible that these aliens might actually confirm the notion of a Christian God.

New Sig comin' up!!!:D

Húrin

Dades wrote: »

Also, I fear this thread has veered into different territory... It's become "well if THAT doesn't make you not believe, what about THIS?!"

Yes, we should perhaps call it an auto d'infé.

Húrin

Húrin wrote: »

Yes, we should perhaps call it an auto d'infé.

Even though I created it, and progressed it to where it is, I have to agree. It's just become a, as Dades said, "well if this doesn't convince you, how about THIS" type of thing. I apologise for bringing this beast into your forum - now, let it die in peace, and with whatever dignity remains attached to it.

Húrin

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Even though I created it, and progressed it to where it is, I have to agree. It's just become a, as Dades said, "well if this doesn't convince you, how about THIS" type of thing. I apologise for bringing this beast into your forum - now, let it die in peace, and with whatever dignity remains attached to it.

Given that plenty of theists are willing to find out why atheists dismiss God, why are relatively few atheists willing to try to understand why theists believe in God?

Húrin

Húrin wrote: »

Given that plenty of theists are willing to find out why atheists dismiss God, why are relatively few atheists willing to try to understand why theists believe in God?

Well, I think I understand why theists believe in a god. I was a theist (somewhat reluctantly) until I was about 10/11, so any personal experience I have on the matter will no doubt be jaded with youth. But, I can understand the questions that it answers; the purpose that it gives; the consolation, the meaning and the feeling of not being alone. I've read a few books about belief in God (not the new-age atheistic books), and they've given me understanding of why people would believe in God.

AtomicHorror

Húrin wrote: »

Given that plenty of theists are willing to find out why atheists dismiss God, why are relatively few atheists willing to try to understand why theists believe in God?

Because most of us started out as theists?

Húrin

-JammyDodger wrote:

Well, I think I understand why theists believe in a god. I was a theist (somewhat reluctantly) until I was about 10/11, so any personal experience I have on the matter will no doubt be jaded with youth.

If you were a reluctant theist you surely intuitively believed that there was no God.

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Because most of us started out as theists?

This is simply not true. You wouldn't guess it from the attitude prevalent here. The majority of atheists here seem to think it so self-evident that there is no God that they think theists must be lying to themselves, only using faith as an emotional crutch, or that we haven't thought about it enough. This does not show any serious interest in understand where we are coming from.

Having a childhood belief in God does not count as being a "former theist". A child's faith is so different to an adult's that you cannot assume that you understand because you believed what the priest or schoolteacher said when you were 10.

Húrin

Húrin wrote: »

If you were a reluctant theist you surely intuitively believed that there was no God.

I suppose you're right. But, I actually believed in God when I was about 7/8 (And I know this doesn't compare to adult theism). I've a story about the closest I've came to believing in God actually, it's kind of funny. Just after my communion, with the money I got, I decided to buy a watch. Anyway, I went and bought one and I thought it was the greatest thing ever. So one day I looked at the face of the watch, and there was a huge scratch across the front of it, and, needless to say, I was absolutely disgusted. So that night I left it on my locker, and prayed to God to fix the scratch. Low and behold, the next morning it was fixed: as good as new. For a few weeks after, I absolutely, postively believed in God; I prayed every night and even went to mass. But, then, one day, my older brother asked me how my watch was, and I asked him what did he mean; he then went on to tell me about how my mother told him about the scratch, and that he went up to my room that night to see how bad it actually was - it actually turned out that I must of rubbed the watch against a painted wall, and some of the white paint came off and attached itself to the front of the watch; all my brother had to do was polish it with some kind of rough paper to get it off. And of course my mother didn't say anything about my new found belief, as she thought it was great!

And that's the closest I've ever came to believing in God!:pac:

robindch

Húrin wrote: »

Given that plenty of theists are willing to find out why atheists dismiss God, why are relatively few atheists willing to try to understand why theists believe in God?

I'd imagine that most atheists/agnostics in this forum are interested in why. There's also a small, but very interesting literature out there which provides some very convincing explanations which are based, in varying degrees, upon a number of standard psychological, sociological, memetic, neurological and cultural theories.

CerebralCortex

Húrin wrote: »

Given that plenty of theists are willing to find out why atheists dismiss God, why are relatively few atheists willing to try to understand why theists believe in God?

Its pretty much the same reason for everyone isn't it (doesn't it actually have to be?) and its quite boring. I mean there is not really much room for interest you could probably say the same thing about the reason for atheism.

Húrin wrote: »

This is simply not true. You wouldn't guess it from the attitude prevalent here. The majority of atheists here seem to think it so self-evident that there is no God that they think theists must be lying to themselves, only using faith as an emotional crutch, or that we haven't thought about it enough. This does not show any serious interest in understand where we are coming from.

As I said it gets tedious.

Húrin wrote: »

Having a childhood belief in God does not count as being a "former theist". A child's faith is so different to an adult's that you cannot assume that you understand because you believed what the priest or schoolteacher said when you were 10.

You are asking the impossible though, its like your saying for us to understand where your coming from we'd have to be theists and thats ridiculous.