ESB pays wage hike to workers

jmayo

Boston wrote: »

The company makes a profit.

Ah very good except, it is us that are paying high electricity bills to make sure they do make a profit.

In any sane state, the government would be looking at ways of cutting the costs of state provided services (and sraheen to most people in this country ESB is still state owned company or semi state) so that it cut costs for everyone.
It helps makes life easier for those now unemployed, those who have had pay cuts, makes our businesses more competitive and help prevent FDIs from running out of the country.
Of course Ireland is different, our government decide to do nothing so that already very well paid staff can get a pay rise, becuase it has been "agreed".

Can I ask what will happen when the HSE staff look for their pay hikes ?
What about the Gardai, the Prison staff, the Civil Service ?
Where will the money come from ???????

If public sector employees suffer no pay cuts, no job losses etc the only option is to either savagely cut services and/or raise taxes.
The borrowing option, although as we know favoured by lots of Irish people over the last 10 years, ain't an option for our country to keep going.

ejmaztec

grahamo wrote: »

So now if you get an agreed pay rise you are GREEDY?

Greed is what the bankers, retailers and property developers and IBEC have been indulging in for the last 15 years or so.

If a pay-rise is agreed and the economic sh1t hits the fan - it's just bad luck and everyone should go with the flow. As Jmayo rather sensibly asked - where is the money? The cash cow has been put down!

Yes - rampant greed in all sectors has brought this country to it's knees and made it more susceptible to global economic turmoil.

johnnyc

the esb are way overpaid the lads in poolbeg are earning 140,000 euro switching a few switches. They should bring in foreign companies to supply electricity such as eon and let competition sort out the energy market. that would be the ideal solution

OhNoYouDidn't

gurramok wrote: »

Nice comparison with minimum wage workers in Tesco. We're talking about highly paid individuals in ESB who work in vital infrastructure who are clearly overpaid.

Would you object to supermarket shelf stackers getting a payrise on the basis we pay too much for food?

ESB staff are highly skilled and specialised. That is why the command a high wage. This is basic economics.

OhNoYouDidn't

johnnyc wrote: »

the esb are way overpaid the lads in poolbeg are earning 140,000 euro switching a few switches.

and surgeons are glorified mechanics.

this is getting surreal now.

johnnyc wrote: »

They should bring in foreign companies to supply electricity such as eon and let competition sort out the energy market. that would be the ideal solution

privatising the phone market worked a blinder didn't it.....

Boston

gurramok wrote: »

I'm talking about the high charges they charge for their electricity. I hope your not saying these pay rises do not come from the consumers pockets?:rolleyes:

What ESB charges and what ESB pay its staff are two separate issues. As already pointed out, the main driver behind the increase in charges was not staffing costs, but rather the regulator. You assume that a pay cut would be passed onto the customer in the form of reduced charges, this is not the case.

It allow sounds like sour grapse, and the attitude that everyone should have to take a pay cut regardless of whether or not it helps.

jmayo

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Yes we do.
But when people start targetting the wages earned by Tesco workers because of the price of food, or pizza delivery guys because Dominos are expensive, or the bloke in the garage over the price of fuel I'll get it even more.

Lots of things are expensive. People generally have enough cop not to blame the frontline workers for that though.

Yes, but I can go to Dunnes or Superquinn if the price of food is too much in Tesco. Hell I can even go up the north :rolleyes:
AFAIK there isn't another electricity provider running poles down my road :rolleyes:
Also the wireless option is proving troublesome to get my hands on :rolleyes:

And then when tesco lose customers, they cut their costs and if that means salary cuts or expense cuts then it happens.

Boston wrote: »

Perhaps you should understand that regardless of whether or not the staff get a pay increase, ESB will still be charging us the same. The pay increase isn't met out of tax revenue. Typical blind misplacement of blame.

So where would the ESB profits be going ???
If they were been put aside for future development then that money will have to be raised elsewhere in the future.
If they are going into the general exchequer funds, then they somewhere along the line mean less tax would have to be raised by US.
So by that money not being at the use of the exchequer, i.e. governemnt state kitty piggybank whatever you want to call it, then it means more tax has to be found to make up the deficit :rolleyes:

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Would you object to supermarket shelf stackers getting a payrise on the basis we pay too much for food?

ESB staff are highly skilled and specialised. That is why the command a high wage. This is basic economics.

Engineers and technicians in the private sector are highly skilled to and they do not earn any like ESB workers salaries so there goes that fine argument.
But of course it is their fault for not working for someone (i.e. the government) that bends over backwards but then lets us the consumers and taxpayers take it up the ass to pay for it.

It is you that has no concept of basic economics.
The country is broke, we are borrowing to cover day to day spending.
Ireland can not continue to borrow indefinetly.
Costs have to be cut ?
The state is lumped with a bank that could cost 20 billion, there goes your pension fund. Jeeze maybe then you will see the light :rolleyes:

Boston wrote: »

....
It allow sounds like sour grapse, and the attitude that everyone should have to take a pay cut regardless of whether or not it helps.

So if ESB costs were cut could they not pass on electricity cuts to consumers and competitors or has the government no control over this issue ?
Oh maybe it was one of their quangoes that protects them from directly dealing with anything ?
What about revenue savings ?

Yeah I seem to remember your former poster boy bertie telling people to stop whinging and that we the doomsayers were begruders and should go off and committ suicide :rolleyes:

Are you still in college BTW, computers or something I seem to remember you talking down to me at one stage about them ??
BTW some of my old college engineering class graduates are some of the ones now enjoying the ESB pay rises.
Maybe you will be as lucky as them ... or you might be like me and the others paying for them :rolleyes:
Oh God it must be all the sour grapes

gurramok

Pass the buck, blame the publicly funded regulator. As 'pointed out' from where, a poster? Provide links.

What part do you not understand of an independent report?

The company and the unions remained tight-lipped about the issues concerning labour costs raised by the Deloitte & Touche review. The consultants found that high labour costs and inefficiencies are adding an extra €100 million to costs, when compared with similar operations outside of Ireland. Moreover, electricity prices for small users are 51% ahead of the European average.

Prices 51% ahead, marvellous.

Here's more of the gravy train.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/the-esbs-lights-are-on-but-nobodys-home-117229.html

Boston

jmayo, ESB could cut all the costs it wants, it couldn't pass on the savings to customers without the agreement of the regulator. There's a larger picture here to do with not letting a monopoly use economies of scale to under cut competitors. The price of electricity is set by the regulator at a level to encourage new companies to enter the market. ESB could sell power to us at a cheaper rate and still make a profit.

gurramok: The buck stops at the regulator, he sets the price. If you don't even know this much about how things work, there isn't any point talking to you.

Ps, there was no recession when bertie was in power.

murphaph

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

thats not a basis to stop a legally binding pay agreement though. the deal is done, move on.

When the IMF steps in and forces minimum legally binding statutory redundancy on you types, who are totally insulated from the real world, it'll be the silver lining around the cloud.

The country is short 20bn this year. We only take in around 40bn a year tax. Can you not see how serious this all is?

murphaph

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

ESB staff are highly skilled and specialised. That is why the command a high wage. This is basic economics.

Bullsh!t. If the ESB wasn't infested with unions we could halve the wage bill by sacking the lot of 'em and replacing 'em with techs and engineers from the UK/Germany etc. We wouldn't even need Poles! (no offence to poles). The ESB are heavily overpaid for the work they do.

projectmayhem

That is all.

murphaph

Lol, classic! A firm that can't even get power to the whole country is rewarding itself again!

jdivision

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

ESB staff are highly skilled and specialised. That is why the command a high wage. This is basic economics.

What about the ones in the power station that doesn't produce power any more and sit there all day doing nothing except playing pool?

gurramok

I think some sort of special law should be passed to prevent striking by workers of vital national infrastructure.
If they have a grievance on pay for example, channel it to an independent channel to show the world what they earn to judge and decide but do not hold the country to ransom.

I think the UK have this, anyone in the know?

BroomBurner

gurramok wrote: »

I think some sort of special law should be passed to prevent striking by workers of vital national infrastructure.
If they have a grievance on pay for example, channel it to an independent channel to show the world what they earn to judge and decide but do not hold the country to ransom.

I think the UK have this, anyone in the know?

Isn't it illegal already for Gards and Soldiers to strike? That's why they have Blue Flu.

gurramok

BroomBurner wrote: »

Isn't it illegal already for Gards and Soldiers to strike? That's why they have Blue Flu.

Yeh, it is. Remember the blue flu? Blackmail by the Gardai.

ESB workers will take The Watt Flu?

BroomBurner

gurramok wrote: »

Yeh, it is. Remember the blue flu? Blackmail by the Gardai.

ESB workers will take The Watt Flu?

To be honest, if they went on strike, I don't think it would effect supply. Why would disrupt their own homes aswell?

Work to Rule, now that one they can do without too much disruption. I'd be more worried about this than an all-out strike.

Sure it's stupid talk anyway, I don't think members of the public sector will strike.

However, to create a law to ban striking is just ridiculous. From your posts on several threads, I'm starting to think that you might be happier creating an island community and be your nation's totalitarian ruler!

Thankfully, Ireland is some semblence of a democracy still.

ejmaztec

gurramok wrote: »

I think the UK have this, anyone in the know?

I think that it's the same as here with law-enforcement and the armed forces. The UK security services aren't allowed to strike either.

I seem to recall electricity and gas strikes in the UK over the years, along with every other kind of strike - until Maggie came along and gave the unions a good hand-bagging!

gurramok

I base this on the Uk. I have flimsy knowledge of their strike laws but i think i did read before that striking was banned for industry that was considered as 'vital national infrastructure'
The likes of the dockers strike comes to mind. It was defeated in the courts in the end.

The ESB did strike before. Without googling i think it was the late 80's, early 90's. I remember my brother who is alot older than me cursing them when passing the picket line as a passerby at the time. The strike went on for a few weeks with major power cuts. Anyone old enough to remember, show your age?

Oh, if i was ruler, you will know all about it.:D
I will treat the public sector fairly as long as they are paid competitively with their international comrades and we can afford them!

johnnyc

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

privatising the phone market worked a blinder didn't it.....

it did work a blinder in the mobile phone market we have competition
meteor
vodafone
o2
3
Look if a company like eon wants to set up power generation in or outside the state let then come in the goverment should throw incentives for other power companies to setup here....thats the joy of competition you either sink or swim

projectmayhem

johnnyc wrote: »

it did work a blinder in the mobile phone market we have competition
meteor
vodafone
o2
3
Look if a company like eon wants to set up power generation in or outside the state let then come in the goverment should throw incentives for other power companies to setup here....thats the joy of competition you either sink or swim

Considering the service is about as good as can be in Ireland, we're completely overthrown with networks. We've got only 4million people and have nearly as many networks in the country as the UK, with a population about 60million more then us.

Having loads of power suppliers is daft. If the government could give proper backing to eirtricity or other such services, then maybe we can talk. Having an ESB clone isn't going to improve anything. The prices may go down, but so will the service... and ESB aren't exactly bastians of good service as it is.

ejmaztec

projectmayhem wrote: »

Considering the service is about as good as can be in Ireland, we're completely overthrown with networks. We've got only 4million people and have nearly as many networks in the country as the UK, with a population about 60million more then us.

Having loads of power suppliers is daft. If the government could give proper backing to eirtricity or other such services, then maybe we can talk. Having an ESB clone isn't going to improve anything. The prices may go down, but so will the service... and ESB aren't exactly bastians of good service as it is.

What about a cost-cutting hatchet wielding-regulator and not the whimpering pussy-cat that I'm led to believe we have now? Surely the right person might be more effective than any competition.

Nermal

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

ESB staff are highly skilled and specialised. That is why the command a high wage. This is basic economics.

Your economics lessons stopped too early. The supply of workers capable of performing these jobs is actually quite high. The demand is low - there aren't that many positions in the ESB.

The only thing keeping up the obscene wages of these guys is the union and the spinelessness of their management; if the managers had any balls, or interest in saving money, they'd cut their wages by half. They would have no problem retaining most of them - where the hell else do you think these jokers would work, after all - and those who left could be replaced at half the cost.

This nonsense that having some qualifications means you're worthy of high pay is rampant in the public sector. In reality an efficient company would only pay you what it would cost to replace you.

IronMan

Nermal wrote: »

The only thing keeping up the obscene wages of these guys is the union and the spinelessness of their management; if the managers had any balls, or interest in saving money, they'd cut their wages by half. .

I work for the ESB. If my wages were cut in half I would be on 17k a year. The only thing that keeps me working there is the gold chair I was given to sit on.

BroomBurner

Nermal wrote: »

This nonsense that having some qualifications means you're worthy of high pay is rampant in the public sector. In reality an efficient company would only pay you what it would cost to replace you.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous and ignorant things I've ever read on this thread. Gurramok has come close, with his comments about striking being made illegal, etc. but that one tops them all.

By your logic, everyone working in the public sector should not be recognised for their qualifications. They should all be low-paid worker drones that strive for nothing. In fact, they shouldn't bother with getting qualifications for anything.

ionix5891

I worked for the ESB and no i wasnt getting paid much more than average wage

anyways its great place to work in and nice food :P but thats beside the point

electricity costs in Ireland so much as its almost all fossil based, beside peat everything has to be imported

were the last country at the end of the gas pipelines

and mountain loads of coal have to be brought in by tankers




you want cheaper electricity? then vote for whatever party has a sane energy policy (none of them so far)

all we need is one nuclear plant, alot of windmills, a few more pumped storage stations and few gas plants to provide for peak demand

but no thats not gonna happen in this country, so moan away

from what i read lately esb are closing quite alot of old inneficient plants and will overall produce less electricity

jmayo

gurramok wrote: »

...
The ESB did strike before. Without googling i think it was the late 80's, early 90's. I remember my brother who is alot older than me cursing them when passing the picket line as a passerby at the time. The strike went on for a few weeks with major power cuts. Anyone old enough to remember, show your age?
...

I had the joy of trying to complete college projects during their last major strikes 1990. It was great when the power went before you had saved to disk (5 1/4 floppy disks BTW) your udated project files.....
Ah those were the days....

gurramok

IronMan wrote: »

I work for the ESB. If my wages were cut in half I would be on 17k a year. The only thing that keeps me working there is the gold chair I was given to sit on.

You must be rare. Care to share what your colleagues earn? The stats & facts say they are doing very well.

BroomBurner wrote: »

That has to be one of the most ridiculous and ignorant things I've ever read on this thread. Gurramok has come close, with his comments about striking being made illegal, etc. but that one tops them all.

By your logic, everyone working in the public sector should not be recognised for their qualifications. They should all be low-paid worker drones that strive for nothing. In fact, they shouldn't bother with getting qualifications for anything.

My suggestion was not ridiculous, its called preventing the country being held to ransom by a tiny minority who just so happen to control a vital piece of infrastructure.

If they have such high qualifications and are lowly paid, what the hell are they doing there?
Why don't they head over to the private sector and earn that supposed mint?

ionix5891 wrote: »

were the last country at the end of the gas pipelines

We get most of our gas from the North Sea. Did you not read about the recent Russian/Ukranian crisis?

Davy

murphaph wrote: »

Bullsh!t. If the ESB wasn't infested with unions we could halve the wage bill by sacking the lot of 'em and replacing 'em with techs and engineers from the UK/Germany etc. We wouldn't even need Poles! (no offence to poles). The ESB are heavily overpaid for the work they do.

I wouldnt like to be out tonight working in that wind and on a pole ofcourse