Access in Glenmalure

mugwumpjism

Does anyone know if there are problems with access in glenmalure, specifically crossing the bridge to the zig zag path to kellys lough by the waterfall?

Alun

mugwumpjism wrote: »

Does anyone know if there are problems with access in glenmalure, specifically crossing the bridge to the zig zag path to kellys lough by the waterfall?

There used to be an issue there, but not any more. There's a brand new foot bridge and rerouted footpath there that skirts around the house that's there, plus the path itself has been re-done by Mountain Meitheal.

fergalr

There was something recently in the winter mountain log about this path, I'm not sure how related it is to the OPs question.
From the mountain log:

...that the route above the Zig-Zags, which leads to Cloghernagh and Lugnaquilla, has become badly eroed in recent months [...] Hillwalkers are asked to consider using alternative routes to Lugnaquilla over the winter months. [...] keep to the centre of the path.

Alun

Yeah, I read that too and found it a little odd. They go to all that trouble to open up the route properly at long last, completely relay the path and then try and persuade people not to use it.

mugwumpjism

Is the bridge you refer to the wooden bridge I spotted from the road? It seemed big enough to drive a car over or is there a different one? Is there a landmark on the road to signal where it is?

As for the deterrent to use the footpath, access rights can change weekly or at least the legal status pending, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a new objection to the access. My attitude is to assume it is ok unless it is obvious it is not and deal pleasantly as possible to any objections afterward

Alun

mugwumpjism wrote: »

Is the bridge you refer to the wooden bridge I spotted from the road? It seemed big enough to drive a car over or is there a different one? Is there a landmark on the road to signal where it is?

As for the deterrent to use the footpath, access rights can change weekly or at least the legal status pending, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a new objection to the access. My attitude is to assume it is ok unless it is obvious it is not and deal pleasantly as possible to any objections afterward

I think you might be thinking of a different path.

The path I was talking about that usually goes under the name of "the zig-zags" goes up beside Carrawaystick waterfall, and ultimately heads towards Clohernagh, and the bridge is some distance from the road, about 100m, beside a farm house. There were access problems here in the past, mainly due, I think, to the proximity of the route of the path to the aforementioned house, but this has now been resolved in cooperation with the landowner by re-routing the path around the house and building a brand-new footbridge (definitely not big enough for a car!). I seem to remember there's a small wooden fingerpost on the road there pointing towards the bridge, but I'm not 100% sure. OS Grid ref for the start of this track is T 087 921.

There is another "zig-zag" track that goes through forest that starts a little further down Glenmalure towards the Baravore end, just past the picnic/camping spot on the right hand side, where the bridge is close to the road, and there's a small parking area for a few cars as well. That will take you to Arts Lough eventually. That might be the one you've seen. OS Grid ref for the start of this track is T 079 928.

So, if you're looking for the "real' zig-zag path you want to be about a kilometre earlier than the more obvious one you probably saw. According to my map, it's about 2.3km from the Drumgoff crosroads where the Glenmalure Inn is.

Tells

Alun wrote: »

Yeah, I read that too and found it a little odd. They go to all that trouble to open up the route properly at long last, completely relay the path and then try and persuade people not to use it.

I reckon the reason they persuade people not to use it anymore is because they didn't expect such a large number of people to use it.
Hill walking has grown a lot in the past few years and with many people not doing any training or environmental courses they make a terirble mistake everytime they go for a walk.

When there is a small trail going up the side of a mountain or hill, you're supposed to walk in the centre of the trail, regardless of whether it's wet or muddy.
The mistake people make is that they walk along the sides of the trail to keep their feet dry or boots clean! This erodes the trail massively.

For example, take the boardwalk leading up Djouce. People still manage to walk along the sides of the boardwalk!!

It's beyond me

Alun

I take your point, but that whole project was being showcased and promoted in all the magazines, on the MCI website and that of Mountain Meitheal for months if not years before it eventually was opened up, so it's a little naive, to say the least, to not expect a huge increase in it's use when it eventually opens.

Tells

I take your point.

Have you tried to contact the MCI at all? They might have some information regarding this.

Now i'm even more confused!!:D

dogmatix

I've been up both routes to both loughs on a number of occassions in 2008 and there was no issues with access rights that I was aware of. Neither was I aware of any significant wear and tear on the trails. The trail to arts lough is always the quietier of the two and Art's lough is always deserted when I get up to it. Probably having a nasty boot-sucking bog just before it deters most people.

fergalr

Without totally derailling this thread... because it's sort of a related topic... there's something that I've been thinking about on and off, I'd like to get others opinions on.

Having been walking over in wales, they have lots of 'trails' up the hills. The hills are busy. An example of this might be the path up snowdon (not the ranger track, the other one, that goes below the pyg track (it's been a while since I walked it)). But many of the welsh 'trails' aren't really trails at all, they are stone footpaths that go up the hill.

Now, these stone footpaths which go up the mountains are definitely sustainable, in one sense, in that you can walk on the stones lots, and while they will get polished, they won't wear big ruts into the hill.

However... to me at least, they really urbanise the feeling of going up the hills. It doesn't feel like a wilderness any more, because there's a very clear human footpath going up the mountain. Which, to me, to some extent, sort of defeats the purpose of going up the mountain in the first place.


Now, I look at the path that's done in the zig zags in glenmalure, and I wonder - and this is a question for someone who might know, not a rhetorical device - is the end goal of those who support paths like the zig-zags, to create paths similar to those in wales, up the wicklow hills?

Paths, like the one in the zig zags, are very obviously not naturally produced. Wide, well managed paths do not feel like the wicklow hills. Furthermore, it's got a big obvious sign at the top of it, with disclaimers about entering a mountain environment. I'm not sure why, but that big disclaimer sign, so high up the wicklow hills, feels really out of place to me. I'd argue it damages the environment. It doesn't look nice, it's very human, very much more an urban fixture than a wilderness one. Now, I know that they probably put the sign there, because if they didn't, walkers that just wander up the path, that might not be equipped for the mountains, might get into trouble.
But that again makes me think about the overall goal - should walkers that aren't equipped to enter a mountain environment really be that high up in the first place? Should we be encouraging them to go up there? Will that not just turn glenmalure into another glendalough?

I know the path is built with the best of intentions, and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just wondering what other people's thoughts are on this issue. Is it good to build paths like that up into the hills? I know that they do less damage, in one sense, than just having a rutted track, water running down, soil removal etc. But isn't there another sense, in which by increasing the number of people coming into the hills, and by focusing the hill walkers that are there on the good track, and the tracks onto which it leads, they cause other problems?

If the future of the wicklow hills is either a situation where we turn it into a wales-like outdoor garden, with stone footpaths everywhere, or a situation where we limit the number of people allowed into it, but preserve it's essential beauty, I might almost prefer the latter as a strategy of conservation.

I'm not sure though - this isn't a considered statement of position, I'm just curious to know what conclusions other people who have more experience than me have come to when they think about these things..? Do I make any sense at all here?

dogmatix

I've no problem with well manicured trails into the hills - its the getting there, enjoying the outdoors etc, that is important for myself. There where similar concerns raised a number of years ago when they put board walks down at the spink and other areas. But with heavy eroding of trails (prime example would be Tibradden - recently redone/resurfaced) sometimes this gentrification is unavodible. This is just a personal opinion - the argument for a true wilderness experience is valid also.

At least with the zig zags, the trail only goes as far as the top of the valley wall - its all rabbit trails and heather to Kellys lough and beyond.

Carawaystick

fergalr wrote: »

Without totally derailling this thread... because it's sort of a related topic... there's something that I've been thinking about on and off, I'd like to get others opinions on.

Having been walking over in wales, they have lots of 'trails' up the hills. The hills are busy. An example of this might be the path up snowdon (not the ranger track, the other one, that goes below the pyg track (it's been a while since I walked it)). But many of the welsh 'trails' aren't really trails at all, they are stone footpaths that go up the hill.

Now, these stone footpaths which go up the mountains are definitely sustainable, in one sense, in that you can walk on the stones lots, and while they will get polished, they won't wear big ruts into the hill.

However... to me at least, they really urbanise the feeling of going up the hills. It doesn't feel like a wilderness any more, because there's a very clear human footpath going up the mountain. Which, to me, to some extent, sort of defeats the purpose of going up the mountain in the first place.

Crib Goch is fairly wild though, and the train line is fairly urbanised....

fergalr wrote: »

Now, I look at the path that's done in the zig zags in glenmalure, and I wonder - and this is a question for someone who might know, not a rhetorical device - is the end goal of those who support paths like the zig-zags, to create paths similar to those in wales, up the wicklow hills?

Paths, like the one in the zig zags, are very obviously not naturally produced. Wide, well managed paths do not feel like the wicklow hills. Furthermore, it's got a big obvious sign at the top of it, with disclaimers about entering a mountain environment. I'm not sure why, but that big disclaimer sign, so high up the wicklow hills, feels really out of place to me. I'd argue it damages the environment. It doesn't look nice, it's very human, very much more an urban fixture than a wilderness one. Now, I know that they probably put the sign there, because if they didn't, walkers that just wander up the path, that might not be equipped for the mountains, might get into trouble.
But that again makes me think about the overall goal - should walkers that aren't equipped to enter a mountain environment really be that high up in the first place? Should we be encouraging them to go up there? Will that not just turn glenmalure into another glendalough?

I know the path is built with the best of intentions,

Wasn't the path built over a hundred and fifty years ago originally to bring down turf? It's in Du Noyers sketches in JB Malones Walking in Wicklow bok and Du Noyer died in 1869

I havn't been p recently, dunno how the path has been since the upgrade.

but there's always going to be well used access routes into the hearts of the hills.