windows vista

darealtulip

I run windows vista home primum 64 bit on my comp and it keeps freezing the first time I start up every morning, when I reset the problem is sometimes over. anybody else with this problem?? I have the system builder version. I installed it on my second pc and that has the same problem.

comp is build with:

amd triple core 8650
9500 gt gainward graph card
6 gb ddr2 6400 ram
1 terabyte hd from samsung
700 watt psu
and lots and lots of cooling 2x 12 cm fan and 2 8cm fans on the case

Slutmonkey57b

Keeps freezing when? During boot? Just after boot? a few minutes after? What kind of PSU is it - if it's a POS 30 quid job, that's a good candidate for what your problem is.

darealtulip

thanks for reply, I changed my psu because of this, it's a 700 watt X power. It freezes a few minutes after boot. strangly enough always the first time I start up, after reset it works normaly fine.

Do you think this is a hardware problem? if so I must have done the same thing twice coz it does it on the other comp aswell.
If it is a hardware problem should I try an other psu again or can it be something else?

It drives me nuts. Explorer seems to 'not respond' a lot aswell.

thanks again for the quick reply!

Slutmonkey57b

There could be a lot of reasons. Have you done an up to date virus scan? Did you just install a piece of software before it started? Are all the cables hooked up tightly?
Lots of things could be wrong.

kleefarr

Could be that you have too many programs starting up on booting.

Use CCLEANER and have a clear out. Check start up programs in the TOOLS menu and see how many you have.

darealtulip

kleefarr wrote: »

Could be that you have too many programs starting up on booting.

Use CCLEANER and have a clear out. Check start up programs in the TOOLS menu and see how many you have.

thanks, try that straight away, I have ccleaner but never looked on the start up programs, let you know later.

darealtulip

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

There could be a lot of reasons. Have you done an up to date virus scan? Did you just install a piece of software before it started? Are all the cables hooked up tightly?
Lots of things could be wrong.

It started after updates from vista and I had to put a lot right after that, and there were no restore points!

I have Avast virus protection and that updates a lot, had AVG before this but that clashed with utorrent.

I will check all the cables again.

My saterday is sorted:D

darealtulip

just checked the start up programs and there were a lot i didnt want to have as a start up program, let youse know if it worked!

Slutmonkey57b

If it started after a vista update, go to windows update and see which updates were installed. Then search technet and see if there's a Knowledge Base article about it. Does the machine just freeze with no error messages? Can you click on anything before it freezes? If you leave Task manager open at the processes tab where you can see it, you'll be able to see what's causing the freeze.

darealtulip

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

If it started after a vista update, go to windows update and see which updates were installed. Then search technet and see if there's a Knowledge Base article about it. Does the machine just freeze with no error messages? Can you click on anything before it freezes? If you leave Task manager open at the processes tab where you can see it, you'll be able to see what's causing the freeze.

good thinking, will try that aswell, I can do evrything before it freezes. so this is a very good idea, it indeed freezes with no error message nothing. just cant do a thing. in the history it says windows shut down unexpectedly.

not so unexpectedly for me coz it's every day:D

The Real B-man

Vista Ultimate 32bit freezes on the boot screen when i turn my dsl modem on at the same time :rolleyes:

darealtulip

The Real B-man wrote: »

Vista Ultimate 32bit freezes on the boot screen when i turn my dsl modem on at the same time :rolleyes:

mine when I turn my lights on. they are off all the time now:mad:

darealtulip

left the task manager running this morning and just before it froooze this was running. Anyone has any idea what is causing it or what I can take off the list. I already stopped a lot of start up programs(thanks kleefarr)

also a picture from my start up programms any sugestions?

kleefarr

Personally I would have deleted the items from the start up menu. (Not sure it would make any difference though).

Also, I wouldn't have both MSN messenger and Skype running at start up. Do you use them as soon as you log in?

CPU usage is still highish at 60% and that appears to be just the start up programs.

Also, check out what Slutmonkey57b suggested. It could be there is a know problem with the last update.

Have you done a registry cleanup with ccleaner and a defrag etc?

ttm

darealtulip wrote: »

mine when I turn my lights on. they are off all the time now:mad:

Then its more likely a hardware problem!

The motherboard needs a certain minimum voltage to work correctly and most (if not all??) have a circuit that monitors the voltages on the motherboard, if it drops below a certain limit the system just stops. The idea being its better to stop and loose data than continue processing with unknown errors. In most cases the voltage output of the PSU is about 5% plus or minus (do check that its not gospel) and the motherboards own voltage regulator circuitry can easily handle that variation, but I have come across some motherboards that will freeze just after bootup (normally as the video card kicks in) becasue they won't tolerate the standard +- 5% voltage regulation most PSU's have.

If its not hardware do you get the freeze up if you start from cold in Safe Mode, if it still freezes in Safe Mode I really would start to look at the hardware.

If my wild guess is correct then getting a better PSU may NOT solve the issue, as even cheap ones have good voltage regulation provided they are not stresses and it may be the motherboard that is the real issue. If you get to the stage where you think that it may be a hardware issue start by trying another graphics card one with a very low power consumption to rule out the power surge of the graphics card kicking in or doing some intense work.

Hopefully I'm wrong and you'll fing the app thats killing it

darealtulip

thanks TTM,

I have an old graph card I will try, Is there any reason why it only does it from the start (I put all the power off from the socket) on the first time? does that indecate someting?

ttm

Just one point about the lights, they are not CFL's are they? I don't know if its possible but I have read somewhere they can interfer with computers? Might be one of those "stories" but worth checking out.

What happens when the system freezes, does it totally freeze up? Does the mouse still work? Does the Num Lock light still go on an off with the num lock key? I'd tend to take a harder look at hardware if the mouse stops and num lock stops working - but that's just random guessing on my part

Software errors are normally captured by the OS (BSOD) and show up in the event log. Hardware errors rarely show up as a "consistant" error (eg bad memory often throws a BSOD but a different one each time) and all you see is "nothing" and eveything freezes or the system randomly reboots.

Also seen AV software which is working at the core of the system make things very unstable but thats rare.

The point I'm makeing about the graphics card is that it is one item in the system that makes big demands on the PSU so if it does something graphically intense it will draw more power and as this occurs the PSU voltage regulation hits its limits. The resultant voltage drop often only 0.2 of a volt can in very extreme cases make the mobo lock up. A different graphic card that has a lower power consumption would produce a lower voltage drop at full power and so may not create the conditions that cause the freeze.

I really am in the realms of very a rare senario but it might be worth rulling out rather than trouble shooting everything else and reaching a point of deperation.

Another question or two ? Are you reseting via the reset button or doing a cold reboot? Does a cold reboot casue the same issue and the reboot work OK?

ttm

Looking at your screen shots I'd kill the apps that require rundll32.exe to run.

The Nvida stuff that rundll32.exe is running is only needed for overclocking and for certain games so at least try starting up with those two disabled.

rundll32.exe really is one of the apps that needs looking at if its in startup, probablay predudice on my part but its often at the bottom of the pile when things go wrong.

ALSO just re read you last post and YES a cold start from the plug tends to indicate a hardware problem in fact as the part of the answer to one of my questions I'd say it definitely points at a hardware problem but where exactly is mainly guessing atm, so try the graphics card bit as you have one and let us know how you get on.

darealtulip

Thanks again TTM, I will rewire and put the other video card in and let you know tomorrow! the light are these

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=314330

iPlop

darealtulip wrote: »

thanks for reply, I changed my psu because of this, it's a 700 watt X power. It freezes a few minutes after boot. strangly enough always the first time I start up, after reset it works normaly fine.

Do you think this is a hardware problem? if so I must have done the same thing twice coz it does it on the other comp aswell.
If it is a hardware problem should I try an other psu again or can it be something else?

It drives me nuts. Explorer seems to 'not respond' a lot aswell.

thanks again for the quick reply!

Im havin' the same trouble and I have:

windows vista ultimate x64
core 2 quad q6600
8 gigs if ram
700watt psu

ttm

I don't think the cold cathode computer lights would make any difference apart from taking a bit more juice form the PSU and then not that much 6 watts for the pair suppose thats half an amp from the 12Volt supply or over an amp from the 5volt rail. I've never used them so what voltage do they run off 5V or 12V (or what colour wires are on the molex connection)?

Do you have a VOM (or borrow) that you can use to measure the PSU outputs? Even a 4.99euro lidl one is accurate enough (supprisingly).

Its the incandecent house energy saving house light replacements I was on about.

@Septic Leper is your problem the same? Cold boot then Windows freezes reset via reset swtich (ie warm reboot) and it works OK?

darealtulip

Septic Leper wrote: »

Im havin' the same trouble and I have:

windows vista ultimate x64
core 2 quad q6600
8 gigs if ram
700watt psu

does anyone else here run on x64? Just talked to someone in holland with the same problem.

just put out one of the run.dll as TTM suggested but cant switch of the other one. comp just crashed with the other video card aswell:(:(:(

darealtulip

ttm wrote: »

I don't think the cold cathode computer lights would make any difference apart from taking a bit more juice form the PSU and then not that much 6 watts for the pair suppose thats half an amp from the 12Volt supply or over an amp from the 5volt rail. I've never used them so what voltage do they run off 5V or 12V (or what colour wires are on the molex connection)?

Do you have a VOM (or borrow) that you can use to measure the PSU outputs? Even a 4.99euro lidl one is accurate enough (supprisingly).

Its the incandecent house energy saving house light replacements I was on about.

@Septic Leper is your problem the same? Cold boot then Windows freezes reset via reset swtich (ie warm reboot) and it works OK?

they are the black and yellow one. I do have a proper VOM meter here. Do you run on x64 yourself without a problem?

darealtulip

Just googled 'vista x64 freezes' and lots and lots of people with vista ultimate and home primium have the same problem.

literally 100's of 1000's of people wrote into forums about this.

http://www.google.com/search?q=windows+x64+vista+freezes&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SKPB

I'm gonna try XP x64 on this setup and if that works The set up must be right? I'm right in thinking this or not?

ttm

darealtulip wrote: »

they are the black and yellow one. I do have a proper VOM meter here. Do you run on x64 yourself without a problem?

Sorry no x64 here, only 64 bit hardware I've used have been servers and 64 bit XP workstations and never had an issue.

The yellow cable is the 12V rail (black is the neutral)

http://pinouts.ru/Power/atx_v2_pinout.shtml

and interstingly the 12 Volt supply dispite all the others (5V,3.3V etc) is the one used via voltage regulators on the motherboard to power all the main components including the PSU. (Note older systems PIII and earlier relied heavily on the 5V supply newer systems suck most of the power via the 12V supply).

Now your 700Watt PSU will be (should be!) delivering in excess of 30amps (I'm guessing) for the 12Volt supply so something is very wrong if taking half an amp for a couple of cold cathode neon lights is causing a problem!

So if you can measuer the voltage between the yellow and black cables with and with out the lights plugged in then it would be intersting to see if there is a big voltage drop with them plugged in - might be a momentary drop while they start up to screw everything up, but if it is that it can happen a little to fast to measure. 12Volt rail should be supplying a minimum of 11.4Volts see http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf when under load. Note voltages over 12.5volts are also bad news.

Now my point is that if the voltage drops below 11.4Volts even for a couple of milliseconds then there is a good chance that the system will freeze up. Ive tested hundreds of PSU's if not thousands and it is very rare for them to drop below this (old warn out ones do though).

ttm

darealtulip wrote: »

I'm gonna try XP x64 on this setup and if that works The set up must be right? I'm right in thinking this or not?

Love to hear the results, but if your looking for drivers then 64bit XP is one of those barren lands as manufacturers saw it as a bit of a dead end, I believe its more closely related to 64 bit Windows Server 2003 than to XP.

My guess is you'll have the same issues, hope not

darealtulip

ttm wrote: »

Love to hear the results, but if your looking for drivers then 64bit XP is one of those barren lands as manufacturers saw it as a bit of a dead end, I believe its more closely related to 64 bit Windows Server 2003 than to XP.

My guess is you'll have the same issues, hope not

it would be interesting to see, is that why they only instal the 32 bit version on all the new comps that they sell, i wonder.:eek:
Just when I saw that septic leper had the same problem I started googling and found a lot of people with the same problem. left a few message's on their threads aswell.
Now I'm getting my vom meter out and mesure and report back as soon as i can, gonna have food first though!:D

thanks for your very good suggestions and explanations (again)

AlmightyCushion

darealtulip wrote: »

it would be interesting to see, is that why they only instal the 32 bit version on all the new comps that they sell, i wonder.:eek:

I've seen quite a few oem pcs running vista 64bit.

darealtulip

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I've seen quite a few oem pcs running vista 64bit.

and running without freezing? which version? I have the system buiders one home primium x64. Did you hear of any problems at your work place? It seems the ones that I read about were home primium or ultimate.

AlmightyCushion

darealtulip wrote: »

and running without freezing? which version? I have the system buiders one home primium x64. Did you hear of any problems at your work place? It seems the ones that I read about were home primium or ultimate.

Yup, all running fine as far as I can tell. The ones I've seen are running home premium. A lot of people on boards have vista 64bit and seem to be quite satisfied with it.

darealtulip

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Yup, all running fine as far as I can tell. The ones I've seen are running home premium. A lot of people on boards have vista 64bit and seem to be quite satisfied with it.

I am surprised, most people I know dont like vista to much and only have it because it came with their comp. I personaly still have one comp on xp and one on vista. Dont really think vista is an improvement except ofcourse that you can upgrade without installing every thing again.

Ok off topic!!!

I found a lot of people with the same problem, and a lot with no problem what so ever and I would like to find out what is different in the once that dont.

Any idea?