Perfecting a smooth stop

merryhappy

Ok, so I've been driving for approx 4 months, haven't been getting out in the car as much as I would like to be as I'm studying for my Leaving Cert. However I fell my confidence is growing and I'm thinking of applying for my test.

One of my main problems is coming to a smooth stop, there's just a few things I'm unsure about.

The main thing is coming down the gears. I was told my my driving instuctor that you can stop in 3rd/4th gear. My problem with that is as I am slowing down I feel the car struggling and feel that I have to go down a gear. however if I put my foot on the clutch it stops struggling but it means depressing the clutch before I'm ready to stop if you know what I mean?

I prefer going down the gears into 2nd before stopping but I have a question about that also. Say I'm coming up to traffic lights in 3rd gear and there's a row of cars already stopped. I break lightly and change down to second (foot off the break at that stage). I would be inclined to keep my foot on the clutch (after changing gears) as I will be coming to a complete stop in a few yards anyway. Is that allowed?

I realise both questions are pretty much the same but I would appreciate it could be explained to be referring to both situations, Thanks!

brian076

Your driving instructor is right you can stop in any gear. In the situation you describe at traffic lights you should stay in 3rd gear. Changing back into 2nd and keeping the clutch in is the same as knocking it into neutral. While the clutch is in the gears are disengaged which is called coasting.
If you feel the car chugging while you're slowing down maybe you're braking too much, if you do it properly you should be able to slow down in any gear and press the clutch in just before you stop, but that could be as much as about 2 car lengths

Wishbone Ash

merryhappy wrote:

I would be inclined to keep my foot on the clutch (after changing gears) as I will be coming to a complete stop in a few yards anyway

brian076 wrote: »

Changing back into 2nd and keeping the clutch in is the same as knocking it into neutral

I think the OP meant that he/she keeps their foot over the clutch pedal rather than pressing it.

DriveSkill

merryhappy wrote: »

I would be inclined to keep my foot on the clutch (after changing gears) as I will be coming to a complete stop in a few yards anyway. Is that allowed?

If by this you mean you are keeping the clutch fully depressed (i.e. 'in') then you are 'coasting' and you will be faulted for this in the driving test. As brian076 said moving the gear lever but not releasing the clutch has no effect on the engine and is one way of 'coasting'. Every time you change the gear level from one position to another (say 3rd to 2nd) then you MUST release the clutch - otherwise just leave the gear lever alone and put in the clutch just before you stop.

If you are just hovering over the clutch for a few seconds but have actually let it out then that is OK.

In terms of getting a 'smooth stop' there are 2 main points:

Firstly you need to brake progressively, this means should ease on the brake, then brake firmly and just before you come to a stop ease off the brake pedal pressure slightly (but dont come off fully). If you do this correctly its possible to brake pretty much from any speed (eg from 100km/hr to 0km/hr) without any sudden jolt to you or your passengers.

The other aspect comes with knowing how well your brakes work and judging normal stopping distances. Get a quiet road and pick various points as 'Stopping points' (could be road sign, trees, street lamps etc) - you need to be able to judge when to come on the brake and how much pressure in order to stop at a certain point. From your description when you are in a high gear (3rd/4th) and coming to a stop you are braking too early and too much. What happens then is as you start to ease off the brake the speed of the car is too slow for the gear you are in and it starts to struggle or labour. No point in getting from 50km/hr to say 15km/hr and still be 200m away from where you want to stop!! Practice with your instructor when the correct point to start braking is - the higher the gear the shorter you leave the braking distance in general - or else you change to a lower gear after you have reduced the speed. Remember you are not practicing an emergency stop or 'slamming on' but you can be firm enough with the brakes as needed. Obviously do not use an actual STOP SIGN or a line of parked cars or a wall etc as your target stopping point when you are practicing this you need just a point on the road that if you overshoot there is no danger to any other road users or yourself! Equally important that you know what is behind you before doing any 'testing' of how the brakes react.

Declan.

brian076

One other point to remember is that if you are approaching lights which have been red for some time and there are no cars ahead of you, you should be in a gear which will allow you to carry on if the lights change to green as you're about to stop.

It's very difficult for a learner to react quickly enough if you're just about to stop in 3rd/4th gear, when suddenly you have to go again and try and change to the appropriate gear.

If you are approaching lights which are red with no traffic ahead, slow the car down using your brakes and change into 2nd gear, remember you don't have to change down in sequence, you can go from 4th to 2nd once you've reached the correct speed. if the lights are still red come back into 1st just before coming to a stop so that you'll be able to move off immediatley if they suddenly change to green.

DriveSkill

brian076 wrote: »

if the lights are still red come back into 1st just before coming to a stop so that you'll be able to move off immediatley if they suddenly change to green.

Would you really recommend this ? I'd generally tell people to stop in 2nd say in that case and then immediately come into 1st - but not to go into 1st until you have actually stopped. I know its slightly off topic from the original point - apologies to the OP.

Tech3

I was usually taught to stop in second also rather than first. I think a learner would find it hard to stop in 3rd/4th. At least in second you are going in the correct gear for a speed of where you will be required to stop. Theres a heavier risk that the tester will think your coasting to a stop if using 3rd/4th gear.

As with keeping the leg on the clutch but not pushing down on it thats ok once your in gear. You should notice this by looking at the revs, when pushing down on the clutch you will notice these to drop.

When changing gears you have to push in on clutch, make gear change and then release clutch to get in that required gear. Leaving the clutch down is coasting and a straight fail grade 3 could suffice for this.

DriveSkill

tech2 wrote: »

I was usually taught to stop in second also rather than first. I think a learner would find it hard to stop in 3rd/4th. At least in second you are going in the correct gear for a speed of where you will be required to stop. Theres a heavier risk that the tester will think your coasting to a stop if using 3rd/4th gear.

I disagree with this, it is perfectly OK to stop in 3rd, 4th or even 5th gear if appropriate for the situation. Main scenario is having a clear drive up to a definite stopping point - i.e. STOP SIGN at the end of a long straight stretch, much easier to drive up to it in 3rd or 4th gear and stop. Higher risk of making errors (including coasting) if you start to come down through the gears. Obviously if you come down through the gears correctly then that is equally acceptable from a test point of view but more wear and tear on the car and in my view the less preferred option.

tech2 wrote: »

As with keeping the leg on the clutch but not pushing down on it thats ok once your in gear. You should notice this by looking at the revs, when pushing down on the clutch you will notice these to drop.

Again I totally disagree, this is bad advice and a very bad habit and you will be marked for it during a driving test. Resting your foot on the clutch pedal is specifically mentioned in the marking guidelines as a fault under coasting, its also bad for the clutch! If you say you are not resting it on the pedal then you are constantly holding your foot in mid-air and I cant exactly see that as being comfortable on a long drive so will invariably end up resting on the pedal. Your left foot should be well away from the clutch and resting either on the floor or on the foot rest (if you have one) when not actually using the clutch.

tech2 wrote: »

When changing gears you have to push in on clutch, make gear change and then release clutch to get in that required gear. Leaving the clutch down is coasting and a straight fail grade 3 could suffice for this.

Unlikely to get a Grade 3 'straight fail' for just coasting once. More common to pick up 4 grade 2's if you fail for 'coasting'. One definition of 'coasting' is driving a prolonged distance with clutch pedal pressed. I think it is important to note the word 'prolonged', it is a necessary part of driving to use the clutch both for changing gears and before you stop.

brian076

DriveSkill wrote: »

Would you really recommend this ? I'd generally tell people to stop in 2nd say in that case and then immediately come into 1st - but not to go into 1st until you have actually stopped. I know its slightly off topic from the original point - apologies to the OP.

Absolutely, one of the most common mis-conceptions with learner drivers and indeed instructors is that you have to be stopped to go into 1st. It's perfectly acceptable to change into this gear while moving, but you must be going very slow about 5kmh, i.e. you're almost stopped.
It's the same if you're approaching a junction which has a Stop Sign, or a blind Yield junction, it's much better to change into 1st just before stopping, so that you're ready to go immediatley if the new road is clear.
The above only really applies if you're going to be first at the lights or junction, if there's cars ahead of you just stop in whatever gear you're in.

DriveSkill

brian076 wrote: »

It's perfectly acceptable to change into this gear while moving, but you must be going very slow about 5kmh, i.e. you're almost stopped.

Thanks Brian - I agree its acceptable to do this but I guess my point was I would have considered it more of an 'advanced driving' type technique to be used for 'rolling stops' on blind Yields etc and therefore I would not typically advise learner drivers to do it. Some people find it difficult to judge their speed when braking and coming down the gears and you could end up with them trying to get it into 1st at anything from 20km/hr

brian076

Yeah point taken, I think it probably depends on the individual, I just find that if someone is about to stop in 2nd/3rd gear and the lights change to green, they tend to get into a fluster and end up going into 1st and then jumping off the clutch.

Tech3

DriveSkill wrote: »

Again I totally disagree, this is bad advice and a very bad habit and you will be marked for it during a driving test. Resting your foot on the clutch pedal is specifically mentioned in the marking guidelines as a fault under coasting, its also bad for the clutch! If you say you are not resting it on the pedal then you are constantly holding your foot in mid-air and I cant exactly see that as being comfortable on a long drive so will invariably end up resting on the pedal. Your left foot should be well away from the clutch and resting either on the floor or on the foot rest (if you have one) when not actually using the clutch.

If changing up the gears after taking off from a junction and travelling up to third gear you will be changing quickly and there would be no need to take the foot off the clutch. I stated incorrectly that you could leaving leave you foot on the pedal all the time. After reaching a cruising speed the leg can be taken off the clutch.

DriveSkill wrote: »

Unlikely to get a Grade 3 'straight fail' for just coasting once. More common to pick up 4 grade 2's if you fail for 'coasting'. One definition of 'coasting' is driving a prolonged distance with clutch pedal pressed. I think it is important to note the word 'prolonged', it is a necessary part of driving to use the clutch both for changing gears and before you stop.

A straight grade 3 can be given by a tester if the driver is coasting the car around a corner. It is out of gear and dangerous driving.

brian076

Just a couple of points here: A tester will never give a mark to anyone for holding or resting their foot on the clutch. For one thing, in most cars the centre consol will obstruct the view of the tester and he won't be able to see the clutch. Even if he can see it, it's impossible to tell if someone is just touching the clutch or have their foot a millimetre away from it. Unless the tester is certain that the candidate is actually coasting there will be no mark.
Again it's unusual to get a Grade 3 mark for coasting, and even if someone went around a corner with the clutch in this would generally be a Grade 2 fault, unless it was exceptionally fast and the car was totally out of control.

merryhappy

Thanks for all the replies!

I have started breaking more gradually as I'm coming to a stop and it seems to be doing the trick

As for the whole 'coasting' thing it's something that I need to keep an eye on as I've noticed that I sometimes do it when I'm going around corners.

Definately need to do a few more lessons before my test.

Thanks again