Kevin Myers makes it onto the website of the BNP

murphaph

RiverWilde wrote: »

Now that's funny.
I do hope you are not in any way responsible for Irish Immigration policy.

Riv

Aye, it's fcuking hi-larious being struck by a car at 40 mph when you're riding a motorbike at roughly the same speed. I used it as an example-doesn't mean all foreigners drive uninsured or that irish people don't, but it does illustrate that at least some foreigners coming here have scant regard for our laws and customs.

Anyway, you never answered my question apart fom making a silly quip....would you have any issue deporting foreigners who break our laws and are convicted in our courts?

Mr.Micro

Anyway, you never answered my question apart fom making a silly quip....would you have any issue deporting foreigners who break our laws and are convicted in our courts?

forgive me for butting into your debate but other countries often only deport people for very serious crimes such as sex crimes or murder. I do not think that people should be deported for lesser convictions.

herya

murphaph wrote: »

Aye, it's fcuking hi-larious being struck by a car at 40 mph when you're riding a motorbike at roughly the same speed. I used it as an example-doesn't mean all foreigners drive uninsured or that irish people don't, but it does illustrate that at least some foreigners coming here have scant regard for our laws and customs.

I think the idea was for you to give examples of not adhering to local customs which are unique for foreigners. And so bad that you'd like us to be forced out for (yup, a foreigner here). Driving without insurance is hardly unique here although I agree that it's the ultimate scumbaggery.

murphaph

herya wrote: »

I think the idea was for you to give examples of not adhering to local customs which are unique for foreigners. And so bad that you'd like us to be forced out for (yup, a foreigner here). Driving without insurance is hardly unique here although I agree that it's the ultimate scumbaggery.

My bold. why should I highlight issues unique to foreigners? We can't get rid of our own scumbags unfortunately but we can get rid of scumbag foreigners, and we should. You think we should keep them here?

murphaph

Mr.Micro wrote: »

forgive me for butting into your debate but other countries often only deport people for very serious crimes such as sex crimes or murder. I do not think that people should be deported for lesser convictions.

I totally disagree. How dare anyone come to this country (or any country) as an immigrant and then proceed to break our laws? I simply wouldn't countenance going abroad and breaking the laws of another state and expect not to be dumped out!

Mr.Micro

herya wrote: »

I think the idea was for you to give examples of not adhering to local customs which are unique for foreigners. And so bad that you'd like us to be forced out for (yup, a foreigner here). Driving without insurance is hardly unique here although I agree that it's the ultimate scumbaggery.

As a Paddy myself, driving without insurance or tax was a virtual sport amongst many ( not that I ever did), it could pass as a custom when I was younger. Totally wrong of course, if non conformity was a custom we Irish have got it. So if it rubs off on people who come to live in Ireland why should we be any harder on then than ourselves?

Mr.Micro

murphaph wrote: »

I totally disagree. How dare anyone come to this country (or any country) as an immigrant and then proceed to break our laws? I simply wouldn't countenance going abroad and breaking the laws of another state and expect not to be dumped out!

I am sure that there are thousands upon thousands of Irish in the UK and US who have broken the laws in those countries and yet they have not been deported, so how can we as a modern EU state do what you suggest?

ejmaztec

Mr.Micro wrote: »

As a Paddy myself, driving without insurance or tax was a virtual sport amongst many ( not that I ever did), it could pass as a custom when I was younger. Totally wrong of course, if non conformity was a custom we Irish have got it. So if it rubs off on people who come to live in Ireland why should we be any harder on then than ourselves?

I think that it is a pastime with many natives here, either bending or breaking the rule of law. It could be in the genes.

Take the NCT for example, introduced to ensure that all cars are road-worthy. If you have no tread on your tyres, you simply swap your wheels with a friend's for the day. You obtain your NCT and swap them back again. It seems to happen so often, I would imagine that the testers must get a déja vu feeling when they've been checking the same wheels and tyres over and over again, even if they're on a different owner's car.

Mr.Micro

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think that it is a pastime with many natives here, either bending or breaking the rule of law. It could be in the genes.

Take the NCT for example, introduced to ensure that all cars are road-worthy. If you have no tread on your tyres, you simply swap your wheels with a friend's for the day. You obtain your NCT and swap them back again. It seems to happen so often, I would imagine that the testers must get a déja vu feeling when they've been checking the same wheels and tyres over and over again, even if they're on a different owner's car.

Ireland is the home of the chancer, we all know one. On occasion when a car has a bit of a smash in rural areas ( shall we say driving home after a few cans) friends and relatives appear in the night or early morning to remove the car etc before the Gardai notice or ask any questions.

herya

murphaph wrote: »

My bold. why should I highlight issues unique to foreigners?

Simply because you're saying foreigners do not adhere to local customs. Driving with no insurance seems to be fairly popular therefore it's quite possible that by doing the same foreigners actually follow the local custom quite well :cool:

K-9

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Ireland is the home of the chancer, we all know one. On occasion when a car has a bit of a smash in rural areas ( shall we say driving home after a few cans) friends and relatives appear in the night or early morning to remove the car etc before the Gardai notice or ask any questions.

Must add SW and tax fraud to our customs too!

murphaph

Yup, SW, particularly Rent Supplement scams are commonplace.

Nodin

Seanies32 wrote: »

Must add SW and tax fraud to our customs too!

Yep, as well as begrudgery, nepotism, smuggling and sheep stealing.

ejmaztec

Seanies32 wrote: »

Must add SW and tax fraud to our customs too!

supplemented by money-lending and drug-dealing, so the Audi and Merc dealers don't lose out on their custom. Utopia!

Nodin

ejmaztec wrote: »

supplemented by money-lending and drug-dealing, so the Audi and Merc dealers don't lose out on their custom. Utopia!

Well Abtar, you successfully answered your first citizenship question "Who is Bono" with "I knew him when he hadn't an arse in his trousers" and showed a deft understanding our planning proccess by stapling a 50 Euro note to the question on that matter....

Bottle_of_Smoke

Myers is a contraryist. If most people were vehemently racist he'd be supporting the immigrants cause.

However, I agree with this article to an extent. I don't want Dublin to look like London. I wouldn't mind more immigrants(whatever their race) coming here but I wouldn't like to see it get to the stage where white Irish are a minority.

Multiculturalism doesn't work. I agree with Murphaph's sentiments I think foreigners should conform unless in a private area/mosque etc. Though I wouldn't agree about being deported for minor crimes.

Mena

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

foreigners should conform unless in a private area/mosque etc

I think this has been asked a number of times already in this thread, but conform to what? I've been here eight years now and seriously, the only difference I've found is that I'm prepared to have a BBQ 365 days a year whereas you Irish seem to insist on having the sun present :cool:

K-9

Nodin wrote: »

Yep, as well as begrudgery, nepotism, smuggling and sheep stealing.

Sheep stealing! You seen I'm from Donegal didn't you! Countyist!

Bottle_of_Smoke

Mena wrote: »

I think this has been asked a number of times already in this thread, but conform to what? I've been here eight years now and seriously, the only difference I've found is that I'm prepared to have a BBQ 365 days a year whereas you Irish seem to insist on having the sun present :cool:

Basically shouldn't demand that laws be different for them. Or expect public schools to teach Urdu/Arabic etc.

Another thing is often when I worked in retail I found Black Africans to be very rude - barking orders, not saying thanks. A Nigerian guy explained to me they don't mean to be, just in their culture it's normal to talk to people that way when buying things, and to them saying thanks is included in paying for the product. I think before people come here they should get to know the culture and behave the way the natives do in public interactions.

herya

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Basically shouldn't demand that laws be different for them. Or expect public schools to teach Urdu/Arabic etc.

That's very reasonable and I agree completely. But you don't see these claims in Ireland much, do you? I know there are language assistants in schools but this is only to help children integrate as they help them with English not their native languages.

Quatre Mains

I try to read these threads without losing the plot but always end up frustrated. Having a liberal 'come one come all' attitude to immigration is laudible but is also impractical in today's Ireland for a number of reasons, including;

1. The economic downturn feeds racist feeling and more significantly, racist behaviour

2. Other countries which have allowed such a policy have major racial tensions - Muslims in the UK and France, Turks in Germany etc etc.

3. We cant afford to continue diversifying at this rate as we cant afford the neccessary instruments to integrate these people (foreign language teachers etc)

I will freely admit to not being comfortable with such a sudden change in the demographics of the country. Its ok for liberals to say, 'well tough cos its happening' but theres no plan in place to deal with 1-3 above.

Another key control needed is the integration of EU criminal databases. Until we sort out issues like that, people will always be wary of foreign nationals. CAll me racist for saying that if you like, but the percentage of prisoners in Ireland who are foreign nationals backs that requirement up. Here is an article from the indo which expresses my concerns far more eloquently than i can. Until issues like this are closed out on, you'll never have a country comfortable with immigration.

Serenity Now!

murphaph wrote: »

Ok I'll give you a custom (actually a legal requirement) I like people to adhere to....having minimum 3rd party insurance in place when operating a motor vehicle in a public place? Ever been hit by an uninsured driver? I have, pain in the ass dealing with it. In fact as a bare minimum, all migrants should obey all of our laws or be deported upon conviction. That's fair enough isn't it?

I don't want to hear "loads of irish have no insurance" cos I bloody well know that but we can't deport these scumbags. We can deport immigrants who break the law and we should

I don't "feel" that way. I know my position is not hypocritical-illegal immigration by irish nationals to other states is as unnacceptable as illegal immigration by foreigners to Ireland. Clear?

Immigration and Illegal Immigration are as much the same subject as Marriage and Spousal Abuse.

Apart from this generalistic supposition of yours that immigrants don't take out motor insurance (:rolleyes:), are there any actual "customs" disappearing in a fog of 'foreigners' that should be held precious and dear to our hearts?

Mena

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Basically shouldn't demand that laws be
different for them. Or expect public schools to teach Urdu/Arabic etc.

If the demand is there the service will adapt, I don't see a problem with that.

As to laws, anyone thinking the laws need to be modified on their behalf in a different country is a prat any way.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Another thing is often when I worked in retail I found Black Africans to be very rude - barking orders, not saying thanks. A Nigerian guy explained to me they don't mean to be, just in their culture it's normal to talk to people that way when buying things, and to them saying thanks is included in paying for the product. I think before people come here they should get to know the culture and behave the way the natives do in public interactions.

I don't see how this is a problem at all, but that's me.

You'll also find that most africans will remain seated when being introduced to someone (a sign of respect) and offer a rather limp handshake (another sign of respect).

I don't see how any of these are issues at all.

You've still not answered the question though. What are these cultural differences that they need to adapt to? Not demanding their language be taught in schools and being polite in public hardly come under the topic of cultural differences in my opinion.

RiverWilde

Well now that's interesting. Some of these african customs mentioned, I've never heard of. It would be interesting to find out more of these cultural nuances.

As regards our laws being changed to suit the supposed influx of people; how does that saying go? Ah yes, 'When in Rome.....' etc etc. Our law is flexible. Some would say not flexible enough. However, if someone wants to live here they have to adapt to Irish Law. The same would be said of someone going to Britain or France etc etc. It would be nice to recognise the cultural norms of other nationalities. We may even learn something from them. However, when it comes to law, being 'nice' just doesn't come into it. As for the immigrant using the auld excuse that he didn't know of the given law. Well frankly that's not the fault of the justice system. Again, if you choose to visit or live in this country it is up to you to learn the laws. Ignorance is no defence and all that.

Riv

Nodin

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Basically shouldn't demand that laws be different for them. Or expect public schools to teach Urdu/Arabic etc.

emmmmm...and where has this been going on, might I ask.....

Johnny Cabs wrote:

. Other countries which have allowed such a policy have major racial tensions - Muslims in the UK and France, Turks in Germany etc etc.

Turks having the crap beaten out of them is racial tension allright, but I doubt you can blame them.

And France does not practice multi-culturalism in any way shape or form. It never has and is unlikely to in the future. No major party on the left or right supports it. It doesn't even arise.

Nodin

Serenity Now! wrote: »

are there any actual "customs" disappearing in a fog of 'foreigners' that should be held precious and dear to our hearts?

....O wait...no...And...no....But!!!! No....

Only thing thats happening here is whats gone on for the last few decades all over the English speaking world - Americanisation and anglicisation.

Camac Hibs

This time, it’s a voluntary helplessness. People in Britain (and now Ireland) apparently have taken a secret, Self-Denying Ordinance not to discuss immigration or race in any meaningful way. The silence surrounding one most obvious transformation, that of Britain’s Premier League, is one symptom of this. Perhaps a majority of players in any good English team will be of at least part-African origin.

Possibly the most disturbing part of Myers rant. Why would this be a problem for anyone (given the vast majority of the black players he is referring to are ENGLISH) unless they were a big dirty racist?

K-9

Camac Hibs wrote: »

Possibly the most disturbing part of Myers rant. Why would this be a problem for anyone (given the vast majority of the black players he is referring to are ENGLISH) unless they were a big dirty racist?

And does it really matter?

PS. Seems to be the white players let them down.

AlekSmart

Yup, SW, particularly Rent Supplement scams are commonplace.

Ah yes..The PRAA...now rapidly becoming the allowance of choice for many.

An odd one this,as a former administration began to twig it`s capacity to become a Black Hole and ended the allowance.

However,a new Minister...Seamus Brennan AFAIR deemed himself in need of some "Friend of the Po Folks" credentials and re-introduced it a bit later.

It`s an amazing set-up and appears to be administered by a single elderly Social Welfare administrator somewhere in Roscommon.

When the PRAA is combined with a Lone Parents Allowance (Possibly with several childer attached) and a Job Seekers or Long Term Disability payment then we arrive at a very tidy sum indeed.

Many of the recipients claim to be lone-parents whilst openly co-habitating (and rowing) and then simultaneously declare their total committment as a couple to the Local Authority in order to secure an oul Council House.

It`s become such an ingrained payment that it`s now being handed on between siblings as the older one gets a house and the next in line then moves into the rented flat/house on foot of their entiotlement to an PRA allowance also.

God alone knows how much is being spent every week on this nonsense in order to bolster the notion that anybody can procreate as many chizzlers as possible without having to worry about who`se going to feed,clothe,educate or provide medical attention to them.

Walt Disney was reported to be in negotiations for a theme park here before he died.....to be called Department of Social Welfare Land...

K-9

Ah but you have the DLA in the North.

THE DERRY Living Allowance.

They used to tell me what they where entitled to!