Ireland squad (v Georgia)

herbieflowers

I think he was at fault for every one of Citeh's goals when they hammered Hull a few weeks ago.

dogpile

No Selcuk Tidim either :rolleyes:

eagle eye

stovelid wrote: »

Jack's 1990 personnel easily outstrip what we have available now.

Bonner and McGrath need no introduction.

Stan, Houghton and Whelan were with Liverpool in 1990, the then league champions. Aldo had just left Liverpool to go to Spain IIRC. Jack also dispensed with Brady, albeit at the end of his career. O' Leary won a league title with Arsenal the following season. And Sheedy, Moran and Townsend were solid, top-level pros.

Sure Keane was still a work in progress in 94, but he played in midfield for the premiership champions.

Jack Charlton took over the ROI in 1986. Lets start at the very top.
Packie Bonner was with Celtic. Fair enough
Paul McGrath Legend, greatest ever imo.
Steve Staunton was a young lad at Liverpool who was just breaking through to the senior squad.
Ray Houghton was playing for Oxford when Jack picked him for Ireland
So was John Aldridge. It was their callups for Ireland that made them.
O'Leary was with Arsenal but against the beliefs of many was not first choice under Jack.
Kevin Sheedy was a top pro, agreed.
Kevin Moran was nearing the end of his career.
Andy Townsend was just making a name for himself when he was picked up by Jack.
Tony Cascarino was playing for Gillingham

But basically most of the younger players were picked up by bigger clubs after playing for Jack.

Tomthepost

eagle eye wrote: »

Jack Charlton took over the ROI in 1986. Lets start at the very top.
Packie Bonner was with Celtic. Fair enough
Paul McGrath Legend, greatest ever imo.
Steve Staunton was a young lad at Liverpool who was just breaking through to the senior squad.
Ray Houghton was playing for Oxford when Jack picked him for Ireland
So was John Aldridge. It was their callups for Ireland that made them.
O'Leary was with Arsenal but against the beliefs of many was not first choice under Jack.
Kevin Sheedy was a top pro, agreed.
Kevin Moran was nearing the end of his career.
Andy Townsend was just making a name for himself when he was picked up by Jack.
Tony Cascarino was playing for Gillingham

But basically most of the younger players were picked up by bigger clubs after playing for Jack.

1988 team v scotland (going on memory here so might be slightly out)

1: Bonner - Celtic
2: Whelan RB -Liverpool
3: McGrath LB - Man U
4: McCarthy CB - Celtic
5: Moran - CB Man U (pos Sporting Gijon)
6: Lawerson CM - Liverpool
7: Houghton RM - Oxford (on way to Liverpool)
8: Brady CM - Ascoli (After Arsenal, Inter and Juve)
9: Aldridge CF- Liverpool (I think at that stage)
10: Stapleton CF- Man Utd (still i think)
11: Sheedy LM - Everton

Also Available
J Beglin (Regular at Liverpool)
T Galvin (Spurs)
C Hughton (Spurs)
D O Leary (Arsenal)
N Quinn (Arsenal)
J Sheridan (teen with huge potential at Leeds)
No players from Wigan, Reading, Hull etc would be near the squad back in the day.

Pigman II

Tomthepost wrote: »

No players from Wigan, Reading, Hull etc would be near the squad back in the day.

What does that even mean? Back in the day there was also no African or South Americans of French or whomever-else-inbetweem playing in the premiership so it was easier to be the guy who got the starting place at ManU or Liverpool or Arsenal. No real achievement in relative terms. In fact you'd probably find there is greater competition to be the guy who nails a place for Hull or Wigan today then there was to be the guy who played for Arsenal or Liverpool 20 years ago.

eagle eye

Pigman II wrote: »

What does that even mean? Back in the day there was also no African or South Americans of French or whomever-else-inbetweem playing in the premiership so it was easier to be the guy who got the starting place at ManU or Liverpool or Arsenal. No real achievement in relative terms. In fact you'd probably find there is greater competition to be the guy who nails a place for Hull or Wigan today then there was to be the guy who played for Arsenal or Liverpool 20 years ago.

You are quite correct. And there are a number of reasons you are right, one of which is that there was no Premier League until almost 17 years ago.;)

stovelid

eagle eye wrote: »

Jack Charlton took over the ROI in 1986. Lets start at the very top.
Packie Bonner was with Celtic. Fair enough
Paul McGrath Legend, greatest ever imo.
Steve Staunton was a young lad at Liverpool who was just breaking through to the senior squad.
Ray Houghton was playing for Oxford when Jack picked him for Ireland
So was John Aldridge. It was their callups for Ireland that made them.
O'Leary was with Arsenal but against the beliefs of many was not first choice under Jack.
Kevin Sheedy was a top pro, agreed.
Kevin Moran was nearing the end of his career.
Andy Townsend was just making a name for himself when he was picked up by Jack.
Tony Cascarino was playing for Gillingham

But basically most of the younger players were picked up by bigger clubs after playing for Jack.

I don't really get the Whelan, Houghton and Stan logic. I said they were playing for the Liverpoool team who had just won the league at the time of the 1990 world cup. You're saying that this is invalid because of their playing status four years previously?

If 6-7 of the current newbies in the Ireland squad eventually play (and win stuff) at top-four premiership teams in the next four years, fair enough.

ibh

eagle eye wrote: »

Jack Charlton took over the ROI in 1986. Lets start at the very top.
Packie Bonner was with Celtic. Fair enough
Paul McGrath Legend, greatest ever imo.
Steve Staunton was a young lad at Liverpool who was just breaking through to the senior squad.
Ray Houghton was playing for Oxford when Jack picked him for Ireland
So was John Aldridge. It was their callups for Ireland that made them.
O'Leary was with Arsenal but against the beliefs of many was not first choice under Jack.
Kevin Sheedy was a top pro, agreed.
Kevin Moran was nearing the end of his career.
Andy Townsend was just making a name for himself when he was picked up by Jack.
Tony Cascarino was playing for Gillingham

But basically most of the younger players were picked up by bigger clubs after playing for Jack.

What about Lawernson who was part of one of the best club sides ever seen in England? Stapelton in his prime was one of the top strikers in the league. Morris and Hughton were very good full backs, although neither were world class, they were a damn sight better than any Irish one’s around now. Finnan a few years ago would probably have been an equal.
Jim Beglin was also still kicking around then.

And if you are taking 1986 as an example (which I have also done), Moran was in his prime. He didn’t finish playing till around 93-94.

eagle eye

It was a totally different era. My main point was that we had players who made their name for ROI and then got signed by big clubs. John Aldridge was not on anybodys wish list before he showed what he could do for Ireland and got noticed. Same with Houghton and Cascarino and one or two others. Even Chris Morris and Mick McCarthy got big moves because they were playing for Ireland. There have been other examples down the years of players who were top internationals which got the big clubs on to them, Michael Robinson would be one I specifically remember who didn't do it at club level like he did for his country.
All I'm saying is that if Big Jack had not have come in, the Irish side would not have included so many names from top clubs. And also you gotta remember that the ones he brought in, Houghton, Aldridge, Cascarino, Townsend and Morris might never have worn the green if not for Charlton. So basically the team now compared to then is a lot different, with most first team players in the Premier Leagues top teams being established internationals before they get signed.
It would be hard to find a player who is not an interanional with a top team now so theres no hope of getting someone who might have a great granny playing in a top team.
Its completely different now of course as the game has become ultra professional and every player is scouted at a young age by the big clubs.

Tomthepost

eagle eye wrote: »

It was a totally different era. My main point was that we had players who made their name for ROI and then got signed by big clubs. John Aldridge was not on anybodys wish list before he showed what he could do for Ireland and got noticed. Same with Houghton and Cascarino and one or two others. Even Chris Morris and Mick McCarthy got big moves because they were playing for Ireland. There have been other examples down the years of players who were top internationals which got the big clubs on to them, Michael Robinson would be one I specifically remember who didn't do it at club level like he did for his country.
All I'm saying is that if Big Jack had not have come in, the Irish side would not have included so many names from top clubs. And also you gotta remember that the ones he brought in, Houghton, Aldridge, Cascarino, Townsend and Morris might never have worn the green if not for Charlton. So basically the team now compared to then is a lot different, with most first team players in the Premier Leagues top teams being established internationals before they get signed.
It would be hard to find a player who is not an interanional with a top team now so theres no hope of getting someone who might have a great granny playing in a top team.
Its completely different now of course as the game has become ultra professional and every player is scouted at a young age by the big clubs.

Jaysus man do your research before writing absolute rubbish.
Aldo and Ray won a league cup medal with the now non-league oxford.
By the way it took Aldo about 25 games to score for Ireland
Morris and Mccarthy were at celtic all along.
You will find plenty of townsends etc in the current irish panel.

eagle eye

Tomthepost wrote: »

Jaysus man do your research before writing absolute rubbish.
Aldo and Ray won a league cup medal with the now non-league oxford.
By the way it took Aldo about 25 games to score for Ireland
Morris and Mccarthy were at celtic all along.
You will find plenty of townsends etc in the current irish panel.

Do my research?

Firstly, if Aldo was so good back then why hadn't he been picked by England, and Liverpool did not sign him after that league cup win, it was another season before it happened at which stage he was a mainstay in the Irish team, as was Houghton.

Morris and McCarthy went to Celtic in '87 more than a year after Jack took over.

Whats this plenty of Townsends thing by the way?
My point on those players is that there were a huge amount of the starting lineup who were not born in Ireland, unlike previous to that, and unlike the present time.
Our first eleven at the moment when all are available is something like this,

Given Irish born
Kilbane Not Irish born
O'Shea Irish born
Finnan Irish born
Reid Not Irish born
Whelan Irish born
Duff Irish born
Doyle Irish born
Keane Irish born
Then its either McGeady or Hunt, one Irish born one not. So basically at most 3 first teams not born here.

Now go back to the time of Charltons first game in charge of us. How many Irish born players were in that team?
I'd guess at 4 or 5 max. I don't remember the correct team for certain, but a lot of these were playing.
Aldridge, Houghton, Lawrenson, Morris, McCarthy, Hughton, Galvin, Cascarino, Sheridan

Research, I've got a brain, if I don't know it I will research. I did for that team but couldn't find it.

Not only that but the team that played in the World Cup QF vs Italy in 1990 had six players born abroad on it.

And I'm not including Paul McGrath as one of them by the way.