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Is there an clique on boards.ie who are immune to the rules?

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    #62
    Gandalf23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Gandalf23


    Daithi McGee wrote: »
    He is one of the bosses. He can do what he likes, it is their site and frankly I'd say it is a given not to fuk with an admins posts.

    If you cannot wrap your head around that you would do well to leave tbh.

    That is what I'm asking. Should some here be immune from the rules? Should the community just have to accept that? If not, is the only option for the community member to fuk off somewhere else?

    Is that really the kind of community you want?

    Its selling what we have here short ... we should be better than that. Boards.ie is better than that.

    Do you not agree?


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    #63
    Gandalf23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Gandalf23


    stovelid wrote: »
    Cliques - or something similar - are pretty inevitable if you have a large number of people (who have been here a long time), and who also know each other in real life. Why invest them with worth? An ignored clique is just a bunch of sad people.

    Because they get favorable treatment.

    (Or at least some people think they sometimes do)


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    #64
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Hey I entered this discussion willingly.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Nope there are people who post a hell of a lot more then I do, you just are under that impression cos you happen to read the few forums I do post in.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Then I would say that those people have daft expectations and maybe see the world and boards.ie in too black and a white fashion and need to learn to look a little closer and see how things work and where a mod is not a mod.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    They do indeed and that is something I have been looking at but tbh if I was
    that concerned about what people think of "Thaedydal" ( who is not really me, I am just a stay at home mammy with two kids and a cat ) then I would not post at all.

    Peoples/posters expections of what I will do or post and how that can be restrictive would be the thing which would stop me posting and make me quit.
    I have stepped down from PI when that became the case and then after a while got banned from PI
    and then be came a PI mod again.
    Think there may have been an element of having me píssing out of the tent rather then in it there.


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    #65
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,855 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    seamus wrote: »
    On that particular post, the tone of it is more-or-less light-hearted and the poster it was directed at even thanked the post, indicating that perhaps they knew eachother, or in any case it wasn't taken as an insult or any kind of personal attack. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that there was no malice or offence intended in that post.

    Again, looking at the canon of, "What's best for the site/forum", if everyone is laughing about a post and it's clear that there's been no offence or foul, then what purpose would banning or infracting accomplish?

    You should really mod the soccer forum with an attidude (sensible) like that. Exact same thing that caused a sh1t storm on another (now locked) thread.


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    #66
    Gandalf23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Gandalf23


    Seamus wrote: »
    On that particular post, the tone of it is more-or-less light-hearted and the poster it was directed at even thanked the post, indicating that perhaps they knew eachother, or in any case it wasn't taken as an insult or any kind of personal attack. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that there was no malice or offence intended in that post.

    Again, looking at the canon of, "What's best for the site/forum", if everyone is laughing about a post and it's clear that there's been no offence or foul, then what purpose would banning or infracting accomplish?
    5starpool wrote: »
    You should really mod the soccer forum with an attidude (sensible) like that. Exact same thing that caused a sh1t storm on another (now locked) thread.

    Exactly.

    This is the problem here. Anyone who read the "thanks" soccer thread and those who got banned must be getting very mixed messages. Two feedback threads beside one another with mods/smods arguing for almost the exact opposite treatment of an "abusive" post.

    This is not a good thing for the site and the community as a whole. I would argue that at least some consistency of treatment is needed ... not the exact same inflexible black and white rules, but at least a consistency of treatment and attitude from the powers that be.

    I would also argue that there should be no personal abuse whatever allowed on this site for all the reasons stated above and in previous posts in this thread. And I say that because I believe it would be a good thing for the site and for the community.


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    #67
    Daithi McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Daithi McGee


    Gandalf23 wrote: »
    That is what I'm asking. Should some here be immune from the rules? Should the community just have to accept that? If not, is the only option for the community member to fuk off somewhere else?

    Is that really the kind of community you want?

    Its selling what we have here short ... we should be better than that. Boards.ie is better than that.

    Do you not agree?

    Here is a summary.

    People do their best but sh1t happens.

    You have the freedom to start a thread and voice your opinion.

    End Summary.

    ---

    I agree with your general direction fwiw but that's life and it is best not to take it all too serious.


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    #68
    Gandalf23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Gandalf23


    Daithi McGee wrote: »
    I agree with your general direction fwiw but that's life and it is best not to take it all too serious.

    I was waiting for the "Internet: serious business" quote to be trotted out. That combined with the "if you don't like it here fuk off" retort. Well done ... you haven't let me down! Amp would probably ask you if you have an original thought in your head at this point :D


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    #69
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Don't worry Gan.... young Dottser has all the makings of a clone.

    Thats the kind of crap I was talking about.


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    #70
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    If you're going to google image search "circle jerk" in the hopes of finding an amusing image for a thread about cliques, make sure safe search is on.

    I learned the hard way.

    No pun intended.


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    #71
    Gordon
    Registered Users Posts: 35,524 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    I have taken to task an smod for breaking the rules in a forum I mod and while they could not be offically banned from the forums they reclused themselves for the length of the ban.
    Is that me because I can't remember what forum that was from and how long I was banned for, sorry!


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    #72
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,727 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    I think what a lot of people are missing out on here, though it has been mentioned, is that the poster who was called a '****ing moron' thanked the post calling him a '****ing moron'.

    Surely that of itself precludes the argument that it could be viewed as personal abuse. Unless that person is seriously masochistic to the extent that name-calling on the internet is what floats his boat. AFAIC, Asok's about the only person on boards.ie like that.


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    #73
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Mod of Legal Discussion, why am I not surprised:cool:


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    #74
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #75
    Gandalf23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Gandalf23


    hullaballú wrote: »
    I think what a lot of people are missing out on here, though it has been mentioned, is that the poster who was called a '****ing moron' thanked the post calling him a '****ing moron'.

    Surely that of itself precludes the argument that it could be viewed as personal abuse. Unless that person is seriously masochistic to the extent that name-calling on the internet is what floats his boat. AFAIC, Asok's about the only person on boards.ie like that.

    So are you saying it is up to the abused person to call whether or not the abuse was intended? I think this is a crazy precedent to set. Are you honestly arguing that? A few others have argued this above, and it is the polar opposite to what all the soccer mods (and many others) have argued in the "thanks" soccer feedback thread.

    This is a problem ... posters don't really know where they stand, and it gives off the impression that there is no consistency of rules ... either in application or interpretation. It also gives the impression that some mods are interpreting the rules to retro-fit decisions they have already made. Are you certain you are not doing that? If not, would you totally disagree with the soccer mods actions in the "thanks" feedback thread locked by Seamus today?

    You have a legal background and you should be able to have the discipline to be objective in the way you see things ... Can you not see how this is potentially a big problem?


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    #76
    Gandalf23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Gandalf23


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Well said ... this is part of the point I am making.


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    #77
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,855 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    hullaballú wrote: »
    I think what a lot of people are missing out on here, though it has been mentioned, is that the poster who was called a '****ing moron' thanked the post calling him a '****ing moron'.

    Surely that of itself precludes the argument that it could be viewed as personal abuse. Unless that person is seriously masochistic to the extent that name-calling on the internet is what floats his boat. AFAIC, Asok's about the only person on boards.ie like that.

    The guy who pigheads humourous post was aimed at thanked that as well.


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    #78
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,307 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    5starpool wrote: »
    You should really mod the soccer forum with an attidude (sensible) like that.

    Why would you wish a dreadful thing like that on seamus? :D


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    #79
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,727 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Every forum has its own charter so of course there are different rules for Soccer, Feedback, Legal Discussion and every other forum on the site. Due to the nature of certain forums, there's a need to take a harder line on personal abuse than in others.

    I'm not saying that it's up to the poster who's personally abused to take issue in order for it to be personal abuse - I'm just saying that it's a good indicator. The fact that the poster thanked the post evidences neither that amp intended it as personal abuse nor was it taken as such.

    It seems to me that a lot of people who have posted here don't know what amp's like. That's a sad thing for boards because there was a time (not so long ago - even I remember it) when he was known to everyone and no one batted an eyelid when he had a go at them. It's not abuse with him, it's banter. That's a vital distinction.

    Anyway, just on the general point of personal abuse: there's a site-wide general rule against personal abuse. But (and here's the lawyer bit), there are exceptions to the rule:
    • Firstly, the divine exception: admins can abuse whomever they wish because that's their prerogative. They don't need to justify it because they own the site. They don't do it very often - they don't abuse their prerogative, but when they do, it's for a valid reason.
    • Secondly, the muppet exception: this ties in with the first exception. Where a user is being a complete muppet and clearly deserves to be abused, then it's probably ok. Here, I'm thinking of people signing up accounts to 'attack' boards. For example, there was a plan over on the PROC forums to sign up accounts and attack the site. I'm not sure if they even did it, because it would hardly have been noticeable given the traffic this site gets. In that instance, I think it's ok to personally abuse someone.
    • Thirdly, the gross abuse exception: this isn't really an exception because I'm talking about banter here. Basically, where someone is slagging another user for the laugh, fully knowing that the other user will take it with a pinch of salt in a friendly, back-slapping way. An example from RL is a friend of mine who used to turn to me and other mates in the group in public places and shout, '<name>, what do you mean you've got knob-rot?' It was funny; we laughed, others laughed, some old people coughed obtrusively and mothers covered their children's ears. No one thought it was personal abuse.

      I think amp comes in here.
    5starpool wrote: »
    The guy who pigheads humourous post was aimed at thanked that as well.
    That comes in under the distinctive rules for different forums bit: Soccer is infinitely more heavy-handed when it comes to personal abuse than is Feedback and the reasons there too are valid.


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    #80
    Gandalf23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Gandalf23


    Mr Magnolia wrote: »
    If the person 'abused' doesn't report the post then I don't see a problem with those 2 linked examples. Maybe they received the perceived 'abuse' and thought ' you know what, I am a cnut', who knows.
    Sully wrote: »
    Amp wasnt being abusive he was joking about. It wasnt meant to be taken seriously and anybody reading his posts should have got that.
    seamus wrote: »
    On that particular post, the tone of it is more-or-less light-hearted and the poster it was directed at even thanked the post, indicating that perhaps they knew eachother, or in any case it wasn't taken as an insult or any kind of personal attack. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that there was no malice or offence intended in that post.

    Again, looking at the canon of, "What's best for the site/forum", if everyone is laughing about a post and it's clear that there's been no offence or foul, then what purpose would banning or infracting accomplish?
    hullaballú wrote: »
    I think what a lot of people are missing out on here, though it has been mentioned, is that the poster who was called a '****ing moron' thanked the post calling him a '****ing moron'.

    Surely that of itself precludes the argument that it could be viewed as personal abuse. Unless that person is seriously masochistic to the extent that name-calling on the internet is what floats his boat. AFAIC, Asok's about the only person on boards.ie like that.

    All of you guys are mods/smods. Can I just confirm that you all really think this?

    This is the polar opposite of the way the mods in soccer treated pighead's "abusive" thread (which the "abused" poster also thanked btw).

    So just to clarify, do you agree with the way the soccer mods handled the pighead incident, and do you agree that all those soccer posters who were banned deserved bannings?


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    #81
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    cornbb wrote: »
    I think you're right, there is a bit of a clique. Its not official or anything, its just that once someone has been around here for long enough they either tend to

    a) get banned cause they can't behave themselves
    b) get bored of the place and only drop in occasionally or never come back, or
    c) really get into it, learn how things really work around here and get 10,000 posts, a modship and implied clique membership. This means they also tend to get the benefit of the doubt more often than a new member that people don't know very well.

    Its not a big conspiracy or anything, its just a natural byproduct of a growing community.

    Having said that no-one should be above the rules of the site, everyone should be subject to the same rules re. personal abuse etc. As for DeV, he is above the rules of course ;) but I'm surprised to hear him say that to a user.
    I get angry too you know. I'm not from Krypton you know. I don't think what I said to him was abusive. It was certainly angry and harsh but did I call him names? I was angered by his post and his attitude. I shouldnt have called him a cnut its true but everyone makes mistakes. Everyone but Gandalf23 of course.

    Tell us Gandalf23, who do you see as being IN and who is OUT of this clique. I mean, usernames... get specific.

    DeV.


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    #82
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    hullaballú wrote: »
    I think amp comes in here.

    He wont be coming anywhere thanks to that knob-rot you were talking about...


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    #83
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Gandalf23 wrote: »
    Well said ... this is part of the point I am making.
    I dont think you have a point. I think what you have is a vague whinge.

    DeV.


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    #84
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Knickers in a knot.


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    #85
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    It is coming up on me having an account for 7 years and really I reckon it would be a lot less if all the

    "Unhelpful and off-topic posting will get you banned from this forum.
    Do take time to read the charter which contains the rules and abide by them.
    Have a nice day.
    Thaedydal"

    Posts didn't count, these days I try not look at my post count.

    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Ok fair enough but I was new once this whole place managed for years with out me. Then I joined up and I had to figure out and learn and ask questions.
    So maybe that point needs to be made a little clearer.

    Examples usually helped, I would dread to think me getting banned from the awards forum for a year is a 'good' example in that way :p

    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    That as far as I am concerned is the beauty of boards that it enables us to do just that and to get to know and spend time with people and I have meet for the most part wonderful people via here. Some of whom have even meet my brats.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I don't embarrass that easily and yet I do have friends take me to task
    when I do misbehave from time to time both in pms and in person but
    as they get to know me that figure out it's a bit like that song by mel and kim
    " I ain't ever gonna be respectable" tbh and to quote another song " I am who I am" and I can as easily 'misbehave' in person in public and infact am more likely to do so.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yes we do all form exceptions of posters and people, personally sometimes it is nice to be able to defie them esp if I am feeling hemmed in by them.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yes very much so.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Which can be a problem it's a double edge blade tbh.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    And they are the type that never should be imho.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I think it depends on the mods, I think that we have a lot of mods who have
    a distinct and strong personality which translates well via the medium which
    means they can set the tone or steer dicussion but tbh I did that before I was a mod and I see posters who are not mods do that on a daily bases all around the forums which I do read.

    Not all mods are like that mind, some of us are just /shrug louder and larger then life then others.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    It's been a while from someone last called me that
    hmmm clearly I have not been having enough fun.

    The bottom line is I have seen good people stop modding and stop taking part in boards
    due to people trying to hold them to some sort of imaginary standard( cos they don't get
    or refuse to get how things work ) and they end up boxed in and frustrated and quit.
    Which I think is a huge loss and it's happening far too much for my liking
    and I have resolved to try not to let it happen to me.


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    #86
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Gandalf23 wrote: »
    So just to clarify, do you agree with the way the soccer mods handled the pighead incident, and do you agree that all those soccer posters who were banned deserved bannings?
    Should that not be asked in the relevant thread Gandalf23.
    This is the second time recently you've started a thread like this... the answer is still the same: If a post is made with the deliberate intention of hurting another users feelings then it's abusive, otherwise it's friendly banter.

    The soccer thread shouldn't be used as an example in this case as it is an isolated exception to a system that has worked and is working site-wide as long as I've been here.

    How do you know amp didn't say to DeV - "I'm leaving boards for <insert reason> but I'm going to have a final fling in feedback and maybe go a bit mad - just like the old days is that OK with you?.." when they were having a pint together after spending days carting around stuff for the SSF?

    If this is going back to some issue you have from a previous personal encounter with a mod then why not just come out and say it.


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    #87
    Mr Magnolia
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,433 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr Magnolia


    Gandalf23 wrote: »
    Are you guys really saying that it isn't personal abuse unless the "abused" person reports it!!???!!!

    Thats the first time I've heard that one!

    Is that the policy you guys adopt for personal abuse on the forums you mod?

    I have seen many mods argue the exact opposite of that. There is a good example in the soccer feedback thread currently in feedback where a poster in receipt of "abuse" stated explicitly that he did not get abused but the abuser was still banned.


    You didn't pick up on part of my post. I was specifically talking about those 2 posts. Any forum I mod the posts would be actioned, feedback is a different place with different/varying borders, plus, these guys are members for years and probably know each other in RL.
    Mr Magnolia wrote: »
    If the person 'abused' doesn't report the post then I don't see a problem with those 2 linked examples.

    aside/ I haven't read over the most of this thread yet.


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    #88
    Gandalf23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Gandalf23


    DeVore wrote: »
    I shouldnt have called him a cnut its true but everyone makes mistakes. Everyone but Gandalf23 of course.

    Tell us Gandalf23, who do you see as being IN and who is OUT of this clique. I mean, usernames... get specific.

    Where specifically have I said I've never made a mistake? Link please or are you just talking sh1te?

    While your at it, could you also show me where I specifically said there was a clique? Link or is it just more sh1t talk fro the big man who is able to abuse at will.

    DeVore wrote: »
    I dont think you have a point. I think what you have is a vague whinge.

    A vague whinge or some feedback a bit too close to the bone :D

    Why dont you just call me a cnut and be done with it? Thats what you really think of me isn't it?

    While we're at it I'll give my opinion of you. I think you have a total lack of class for thinking you are in some way superior to everyone else in this community. A true leader leads ... he does not expect higher standards from those around him than he is willing to impose upon himself. It says a lot about you that you impose standards on everyone else that you are unwilling to adhere to yourself.

    Beruthiel wrote: »
    Knickers in a knot.

    Thank you for your interest in my feedback.

    I'll refer you to this.


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    #89
    BuffyBot
    Registered Users Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    You know, the more I read of your posts, the more I think it's a case of you liking the sound of your own voice than much else..


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    #90
    Gandalf23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Gandalf23


    BuffyBot wrote: »
    You know, the more I read of your posts, the more I think it's a case of you liking the sound of your own voice than much else..

    I dont really understand what you are saying but thanks anyway :D

    I do have a quite beautiful voice ...


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    #91
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Gandalf23 wrote: »
    I do have a quite beautiful voice ...

    You're typing.


This discussion has been closed.
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