Primary Schools without foreign children???

Snowman123

This is quite a controversial question.
I have a son who I need to enrol in a school shortly. I would ideally like to send him to an all boys’ Catholic school. But, as we now live in Balbriggan there is no such school.

There are local mixed school that my nieces and nephews attend and I have been told that the classes are 50% Irish kids and 50% foreign kids. I don’t have a problem with foreigners and I am by no means racist, but they hold the whole class back.

Is the only way of getting around this sending him to a private school? Or an Irish school? I don’t want him to be held back by other kids who cant speak the language.
I just want him to have the best education available.

I think private school is the answer but my OH disagrees and says he hates everything about private schools are he believes they are very elitist. But what other option do we have?

MagicMarker

*sigh*

Was there a report in the paper on how kids are generally really dumb if they share a class with a foreigner?

Dades

Snowman123 wrote: »

There are local mixed school that my nieces and nephews attend and I have been told that the classes are 50% Irish kids and 50% foreign kids.

Do you know that their education is being hampered by foreign kids in the class?

I'm not challenging you, I'm curious.

seamus

Is refusing to send your child to a mixed-race school not similarly "elitist"?

The meedja have been going on about mixed-race schools causing Irish kids to lose out, but by all accounts I've heard, it works out well and the only kids who really have trouble are those who arrived in Ireland when they were older; 8 or afterwards.
Children who were born in Ireland, pick up the English language very quickly, even if it's not spoken at home. Remember that it's on TV, it's in the streets, it's everywhere.

How about you talk to your family about their kids and how they're getting on, instead of relying on your pre-concevied notions of how it works?

Nevyn

You do your research like any other parent about what school are in your area
and those you are willing to travel to, get copies of the enrollemment policies aske them
quesions about class sizes ect and see what you can get him into and then then take your pick of that.

Or you can always home school him.

Snowman123

typo

Snowman123

They are not “pre-conceived” notions. My brother has to work ahead on all the class work because they class have been consistently falling behind. His child is now 9. The class rarely get through any of their schoolbooks by the end of term.

Also, the Irish Times published recently published a suggestion from the Teachers Union that there should be language assistants in schools to stop children from falling behind. That would lead me to believe that the teachers themselves recognise that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. This idea was lambasted by the Department of Education. The department believed that that they would be creating segregated education system. It seems to me the Department of Education is playing things very ‘politically correct’ and it seems they not taking on realties of the Irish Education system in 2009.

smelltheglove

Snowman123 wrote: »

They are not “pre-conceived” notions. My brother has to work ahead on all the class work because they class have been consistently falling behind. His child is now 9. The class rarely get through any of their schoolbooks by the end of term.

Also, the Irish Times published recently published a suggestion from the Teachers Union that there should be language assistants in schools to stop children from falling behind. That would lead me to believe that the teachers themselves recognise that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. This idea was lambasted by the Department of Education. The department believed that that they would be creating segregated education system. It seems to me the Department of Education is playing things very ‘politically correct’ and it seems they not taking on realties of the Irish Education system in 2009.

I wouldnt believe everything you read, I was recently misquoted in a newspaper!

Could there be an issue with the teacher of your brothers child. I changed my daughters school after junior infants when I was concerned about the lack of work, how I was doing more work with her than the teacher and the teachers parent teacher meeting gave me the impression she did not know my child at all. When my daughter went to a new school, huge amount foreign, within 2 weeks she had learnt more than she had done in a full year in the previous school.

byhookorbycrook

text books are an aid, so if they are not finished ,it does not mean work is left uncovered, there is a much stronger emphasis on oral/group/paired work in the revised curriculum.

RealEstateKing

I can say that in my experience it's the opposite way around: The foreign kids were always far more eager to learn, respectful and disciplined than the Irish ones. Especially ones from poorer countries like the Phillipines. They WANT to learn, and they will work hard to do it. Most Irish kids nowadays are dumb and lazy from what Ive seen.

Lillyella

I'd be the same as the OP to be honest.

I'd prefer my child went to a school with mainly Irish children, rather than children whose first language may not necessarily be English.

Catari Jaguar

Snowman123 wrote: »

This is quite a controversial question.
I have a son who I need to enrol in a school shortly. I would ideally like to send him to an all boys’ Catholic school. But, as we now live in Balbriggan there is no such school.

There are local mixed school that my nieces and nephews attend and I have been told that the classes are 50% Irish kids and 50% foreign kids. I don’t have a problem with foreigners and I am by no means racist, but they hold the whole class back.

Is the only way of getting around this sending him to a private school? Or an Irish school? I don’t want him to be held back by other kids who cant speak the language.
I just want him to have the best education available.

I think private school is the answer but my OH disagrees and says he hates everything about private schools are he believes they are very elitist. But what other option do we have?

*Jaw drops* :eek::eek::eek::eek: I am actually dumbfounded at this. :mad::mad::mad:

Maybe you should home school him and keep him away from all "foreigners" and girls until he is 21. And you know, you would NEVER make him elitist...

Orion

Snowman123 wrote: »

They are not “pre-conceived” notions. My brother has to work ahead on all the class work because they class have been consistently falling behind. His child is now 9. The class rarely get through any of their schoolbooks by the end of term.

Also, the Irish Times published recently published a suggestion from the Teachers Union that there should be language assistants in schools to stop children from falling behind. That would lead me to believe that the teachers themselves recognise that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. This idea was lambasted by the Department of Education. The department believed that that they would be creating segregated education system. It seems to me the Department of Education is playing things very ‘politically correct’ and it seems they not taking on realties of the Irish Education system in 2009.

Yes they are preconceived notions. You have automatically assumed that the kids the TUI are talking about are Irish. They are talking about the non-English speaking kids!

Snowman123 wrote:

I don’t have a problem with foreigners and I am by no means racist, but

Ah - the all excusing 'but'. :rolleyes:

Snowman123 wrote:

I just want him to have the best education available.

Did you consider that the best education available is one that includes multiple cultures and backgrounds? And that a school with mixed pupils will have to cater for that type of education? Today my 5 year olds learned about Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks - in Junior Infants. Sending him to an "all boys’ Catholic school" is not the way to go imo.

Críochnaithe

Two of my work colleagues made a similar remark to me about non-English speaking children at their children's schools holding their own children back. One colleague is from Zambia and the other is from Slovakia - are they racist?

iwo

Críochnaithe wrote: »

Two of my work colleagues made a similar remark to me about non-English speaking children at their children's schools holding their own children back. One colleague is from Zambia and the other is from Slovakia - are they racist?

No - they are unintelligent...

iwo

Snowman123 wrote: »

This is quite a controversial question.
I have a son who I need to enrol in a school shortly. I would ideally like to send him to an all boys’ Catholic school. But, as we now live in Balbriggan there is no such school.

There are local mixed school that my nieces and nephews attend and I have been told that the classes are 50% Irish kids and 50% foreign kids. I don’t have a problem with foreigners and I am by no means racist, but they

Eeeeeee yes U r racist... And your arguments are silly.

Ludo

I don't actually consider the OP racist. Maybe the OP is just not an expert in education like most of us? I won't pretend to know enough about how schools with a large non-english speaking number of children manage to offer a valid meaningful opinion on the subject. I can understand where both sides of the argument offered here are coming from but as I say I am no expert (and indeed most people offering opinions here are probably not also).

Can you visit the school and chat with the teachers directly as Thaedydal suggested? Other parents who have children attending the school or similar situations in other schools?

I certainly would not rely on any advice I recieve here about education as this parenting forum has recently turned into a religious v secular education discussion with people all offering their own opinions based on their experiences as a child from what I can see (myself included) and those experiences are probably no reflection on how schools operate today.

daelight

Having gone through hell Ireland schooling system (for having a polite english accent, MATE) I can tell you this sort of person is your 'average joe' parent.

My parents are Irish, they returned to Eire in the 90's. Was treated like a bastard child in the small town and they had a stressful time just enrolling me into a school (the catholic run schools wouldn't allow me) They didn't have any good contacts with any GAA bloke I guess...

I won't go into any detail about the 6-odd year ordeal but even though I left the school system without any quals or friends (it effects yer health you know) I managed to become successfully happy outside of that cead mille a bollix hovel country of yours.. hurrah!!

Good luck to ye and your precious freckled offspring.

ebmma

Lillyella wrote: »

I'd be the same as the OP to be honest.

I'd prefer my child went to a school with mainly Irish children, rather than children whose first language may not necessarily be English.

Most foreigners want exactly the same thing.
They want their child to go to the best school with more Irish kids so s/he can have good education and learn language quicker.

Nevyn

We will have less of the name calling, if you can not contribite to this discussion in a constructive manner do not bother posting, failing to do that and the mods will have to restrict your posting here.

ebmma

Thaedydal wrote: »

We will have less of the name calling, if you can not contribite to this discussion in a constructive manner do not bother posting, failing to do that and the mods will have to restrict your posting here.

was that for me? :eek:

Nevyn

That warning was for anyone reading this thread, I have alreaded issued an infraction.
If there was an issue with any one of your posts ebmma you would have gotten a warning or an infraction pm. This can be an inflamatory topic and I do not want to have ban people or lock the thread.

If you have any futher comments or questions please direct them to me or any of my
parenting co mods rather then posting off topic and derailing the thread, thanks.

dollyk

well down here in the country, as my ma called it , the schools have classes for children that came into the country at a late stage ie five six seven, tbh they catch up very quick and are as most say a whole lot more willing to learn than most of the irish kids who take edcucation for granted, as i did too when young..its also fun for the children to learn about different cultures, my son 12 can speak lots of polish :eek: better than irish, pml...so its all good.mind you i have reared six , most adults so ive changed and mellowed, but maybe years ago i wouldnt be like that with my first born ANGEL:P

RealEstateKing

RealEstateKing wrote: »

I can say that in my experience it's the opposite way around: The foreign kids were always far more eager to learn, respectful and disciplined than the Irish ones. Especially ones from poorer countries like the Phillipines. They WANT to learn, and they will work hard to do it. Most Irish kids nowadays are dumb and lazy from what Ive seen.

It appears to be ok to make racist comments, once you're talking about Irish kids.......subsitute Black or African for Irish in the above line, and see the reaction you would get.

Nevyn

dursey if you have an issue with a post report it.

Orion

Deleted User wrote: »

It appears to be ok to make racist comments, once you're talking about Irish kids.......subsitute Black or African for Irish in the above line, and see the reaction you would get.

While it was a gross generalisation I can see where RealEstateKing is coming from. In a lot of areas (particularly disadvantaged areas) education is not seen as important or prioritised at home with the resulting lack of discipline/attention in school. I wouldn't call the kids lazy and certainly not dumb - it's a classic case of 'blame the parents'. Just because a kid doesn't pay attention in school doesn't make that child dumb.

[edit]Sorry Thaed - we posted at the same time - feel free to remove my post if it's infractious

IsThatSo?

I am delighted that my child attends school with so called "foreign" kids. They don't hold him back at all, on the contrary, he has an interest in the world in general and knows about the countries his friends are from. The school my child attends celebrates the diversity, in class they learned how to say hello and goodbye in all the languages of the children I think thats great.

These "foreign" kids, a lot of them Irish born I might add, get extra help with english and reading, if needed. Two parents I know (I have become friendly with the mothers of my sons friends) had to ask for their children not to be sent to the extra help classes as they felt their children were doing well and the assistance could be better used for other children.

My sister teaches "foreign" kids in small groups to assist with english and its mostly project work they do to encourage spoken english. Having spoken to her about it and she says that its really only the older children have difficulty. Any that start out in junior infants usually do well. A teacher will always have to cater for the slowest learing child, regardless of their first language.

I have to admit to finding some of the attitudes here offensive. We, as a nation, have a history of emmigration. At times Irish would have been treated badly abroad, at other times well. Given that most Irish people have relatives abroad I do feel we should be more open to having other nationalities in our education system. Our relatives abroad get educated, no??

It is a huge advantage to our children and maybe they won't grow up with some of the notions we see here.

Even if my child was being held back I would be prepared to put in extra time with him at home. Its primary school work, not rocket science. The benefits of having multicultural classes far outweight the disadvantages that some perceive here, imo

zonEEE

No, i think the op is right, being in leaving cert myself i feel foreign people do hold back the class, the teacher would always have to stop and explain it twice or three times before they understand, because they can not speak the language. It really can become annoying at times when the class has to stop and stuff has to be explained over and over, i would have no problem if they couldn't understand the topic eg finding maths hard but its the fact that they don't speak the language.

Nevyn

Well the problem lies with the dept of educations lack of learning supports.

I woud like to ask the op would they have a problem if there was a child with a learning
disablity in thier child's class ?

amen

just saw this post but on line from that start sticks out

Is the only way of getting around this sending him to a private school? Or an Irish school?

so you would send your child to an Irish school where the method of teaching is through the medium of Irish. I assume you don't speak this at home (as most ppl don't) so in effect you would be holding back those who attend the irish school and speak irish as their first language just as you are saying others will do to you child if they go to the local school?

MagicMarker

amen wrote: »

just saw this post but on line from that start sticks out

so you would send your child to an Irish school where the method of teaching is through the medium of Irish. I assume you don't speak this at home (as most ppl don't) so in effect you would be holding back those who attend the irish school and speak irish as their first language just as you are saying others will do to you child if they go to the local school?

Well, generally 5 year olds don't speak Irish, they'd all be starting off together.