tortoise or bearded dragon

tedandbetty

my good wife has been talking about getting a new pet. I have been given the job of researching what to get and have it down to either a Tortoise or a Bearded Dragon. Just wondering if anybody has any experience of either of these and which they would recommend?


your thoughts would be appreciated.


Ted

Rory123

I was planning to get a tortie a few months ago. I had priced all the stuff up, started putting the money away. I had bought a book on their care and read it from cover to cover, twice.
Then one day I was in the petshop, and I asked to hold one. I was really excited. Tortie had settled in after a couple of mins, and I was enjoying holding it.
Then in one sudden blast it peed all over my hands, shoes and the floor. I mean, I've seen elephants take smaller leaks! I wasn't too bothered by being weed on. But then I imagined... what about when this happens at home?!... on the carpet?!... ALL OVER THE CARPET?!

Needless to say, I swiftly returned tortie to her cabinet and said a dieu!

I was told that they can have a habit of weeing themselves silly when they relax a bit after being taken into someones hands.

I don't know if beardies do the same, and maybe this doesn't bother you... but it would bother me.
Just something to consider. :rolleyes:
Best of luck anyway!

Duzzie

tedandbetty wrote: »

my good wife has been talking about getting a new pet. I have been given the job of researching what to get and have it down to either a Tortoise or a Bearded Dragon. Just wondering if anybody has any experience of either of these and which they would recommend?


your thoughts would be appreciated.


Ted

It is very difficult to draw comparisons between a tort and a beardie. 2 completely different animals with different needs. Personally I have beardies but not torts so cant say too much about them. I consider beardies to be a far more social animal that a tort. I have been know to walk around Tescos with my Beardie sat on my shoulder, something you coundnt do with a tort. Another consideration is food. Insects are an important part of a beardies diet. If you have any qualms about feeding live insects to your pet or the chance of having the odd escapee insect in your house, then a beardie is not for you. On the other hand it would be unusual for a beadie to pee or defficate on you, which may be more likely to happen with a tort.

Maybe the biggest thing to think about is the life span. A beardie will generally live to 6 or 8 years, some species of torts will live up to 100 years.

As I said, the choice is largely down to what you want out of the animal, what you are willing to put into it and what you are willing to put up with.

tallus

OP: Do you have any experience of keeping reptiles ?
Tortoises are one of the hardest pets to maintain and have very exacting dietary and housing conditions that have to be met.
If you haven't kept reptiles I would 100% not recommend getting a tortoise.
I'm not casting aspersions on your ability to keep/maintain reptiles, but tortoises are one of the hardest critters to successfully maintain.
Never kept beardies but as far as I know they are far more sociable than tortoises.
Both need UV B lighting as they are diurnal species. Both need a hotspot and cool spot in their enclosures.
With Tortoises you also have the added job of having to hibernate them if they are from the mediterranean. Most of the commonly sold torts for sale in ireland need to be hibernated.

Rory123

Tallus, I'm guessing that if the med tortoises have to hibernate then they shouldn't be on sale at this time of year? I've seen loads of torts in petshops, all of which are on display and for sale over the winter. Including med species such as Marginated and Horsfield's. When I asked are they not supposed to be hibernated they told me not until they are a few years older and being kept outside, or else they'd say not if they are kept inside whith heat mats and UV B.

Just wondering what your practises are out of interest?

SCI

tallus wrote: »

OP: Do you have any experience of keeping reptiles ?
Tortoises are one of the hardest pets to maintain and have very exacting dietary and housing conditions that have to be met.
.

I'd disagree,there's no reason why a horse field or Herman's tortoise would
not be easy to keep with the right research and advise. My advise is if
you are going to buy a reptile as a pet go to a reptile specialist and not an
every day pet shop. You may also want to look of for local breeders.

tedandbetty

thanks for your reply guys. I have read up on both and I think i could meet the requirements for both, I do like the idea of having an out door enclosure for the Tortie as our back Garden is well closed in and gets plenty sun from midday onwards, we also have pleanty room in the house that we could make a place for him indoors too.
The length that a Tortie lives for is some thing to be considered, but I am sure that we can cross that bridge when it come to it...
i was unaware that a Tortie would pee on you, but then again lots of live animal are capable of that (and i have had numerous pets over the years).

and no i have no eperience keeping any reptiles of any kind (just fish, goats, Dogs, hamsters, rabbits, Budgies and the odd pet Lamb as well as one mad pony). but then again every body starts somewhere.


I am told that Tortoise can be quite boring! but that would not worry me too much but a nice friendly Bearded Dragon might be nice!

feeding live food to a bearded would not worry me at all, not sure my wife would be up for it!


Still confused!

Ted

Storm_rages

Tortoise all the way (ok i admit i have never kept a bearded dragon) but we get such a kick from out little guy!

He has two bath a week (in a paint tray) and its just so cute watching him in the water and he loves running around the front room, (finding all the dirt and bring it around with him)

He has two light, for day time and night time, plus a UV bulb.

never peed on me but does like climbing over my feet, he is still awake all year round cause he is too young, and is indoors..

Rancid

Rory123 wrote: »

... When I asked are they not supposed to be hibernated they told me not until they are a few years older and being kept outside, or else they'd say not if they are kept inside whith heat mats and UV B

What do baby tortoises do in the wild? They hibernate right from their first year.
So if someone *decides* to keep a tort outside of their natural country of origin, they must recreate their natural habitat as closely as possible.
This includes hibernation EVERY year.
Naturally, this slows their growth, which, with a good diet of weeds prevents shell deformities and metabolic bone disease.

Heat mats are dangerous for tortoises. They are "designed" to absorb heat from above, not below.

If these are the answers your petshop is giving you, find a better one.

Have a look here, all the info is reliable:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/articles.html#husbandry

Rancid

Rory123 wrote: »

......Then one day I was in the petshop, and I asked to hold one. I was really excited. Tortie had settled in after a couple of mins, and I was enjoying holding it.
Then in one sudden blast it peed all over my hands, shoes and the floor. I mean, I've seen elephants take smaller leaks! I wasn't too bothered by being weed on. But then I imagined... what about when this happens at home?!... on the carpet?!... ALL OVER THE CARPET?!

Needless to say, I swiftly returned tortie to her cabinet and said a dieu!

I was told that they can have a habit of weeing themselves silly when they relax a bit after being taken into someones hands.....

Replace the word "relax" with "get stressed" and you're closer to the truth.

However, as regards it peeing on your carpets, if you had it housed correctly in a tortoise table, it wouldn't be walking around your room on the floor!
Floors are draughty places, and dangerous for little tortoises.

Rancid

Storm_rages wrote: »

Tortoise all the way (ok i admit i have never kept a bearded dragon) but we get such a kick from out little guy!

He has two bath a week (in a paint tray) and its just so cute watching him in the water and he loves running around the front room, (finding all the dirt and bring it around with him)

He has two light, for day time and night time, plus a UV bulb.

never peed on me but does like climbing over my feet, he is still awake all year round cause he is too young, and is indoors..

Tortoises don't need any lights at night.
Heat light and uv light for daytime, with a cooler area for them to cool down in when necessary, and substrate deep enough for them to dig down in, when they want to.

They're never too small or too young to hibernate. It's a natural process for them, depriving them of it will result in shell deformities and ill-health.

Rancid

tedandbetty wrote: »

thanks for your reply guys. I have read up on both and I think i could meet the requirements for both, I do like the idea of having an out door enclosure for the Tortie as our back Garden is well closed in and gets plenty sun from midday onwards, we also have pleanty room in the house that we could make a place for him indoors too.
The length that a Tortie lives for is some thing to be considered, but I am sure that we can cross that bridge when it come to it...
i was unaware that a Tortie would pee on you, but then again lots of live animal are capable of that (and i have had numerous pets over the years).

and no i have no eperience keeping any reptiles of any kind (just fish, goats, Dogs, hamsters, rabbits, Budgies and the odd pet Lamb as well as one mad pony). but then again every body starts somewhere.


I am told that Tortoise can be quite boring! but that would not worry me too much but a nice friendly Bearded Dragon might be nice!

feeding live food to a bearded would not worry me at all, not sure my wife would be up for it!


Still confused!

Ted

Read through this site, it'll help you decide if a tortoise is right for you:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/care.html
Plenty of info there on how to recreate a natural habitat for them.

tedandbetty

still cannot make up my mind as to what is the best, but i am glad to hear that they are people to enjoy keeping both.
i took a visit to a local pet shop at lunch time and too out a bearded dragon to get a closer look. i have to say he was a happy chappy and i could see him fit in our house quite easily. but i am still curious about the tortoise.
how long do they spend hibernating? not that i mind thta at all.

do tortoises need compnay as the little fellas can be quite expensice?

do bearded dragons need company?

as on would i need to get 2 either?

which breed of tottoise makes the best pet?

thanks for all your help so far.

TED

Rancid

tedandbetty wrote: »

still cannot make up my mind as to what is the best, but i am glad to hear that they are people to enjoy keeping both.
i took a visit to a local pet shop at lunch time and too out a bearded dragon to get a closer look. i have to say he was a happy chappy and i could see him fit in our house quite easily. but i am still curious about the tortoise.
how long do they spend hibernating? not that i mind thta at all.

do tortoises need compnay as the little fellas can be quite expensice?

do bearded dragons need company?

as on would i need to get 2 either?

which breed of tottoise makes the best pet?

thanks for all your help so far.

TED

I have never had a Bearded dragon, but I would say you could interact a lot more with one, than you could (or should) with a tortoise.

Tortoises don't need company, they're quite solitary creatures in the wild.
However, babies reared together with their siblings, often seem to appreciate the company and sometimes "seem" to miss them if separated.

The Hermanns tortoise is probably the easiest to start off with, in that it's the hardiest and less prone to illness than some of the others.
It also doesn't dig too deeply, so no real need for buried chicken wire to prevent escape tunnels being dug, as you would need with the Russian torts who literally live to dig.

Hibernation in babies would be approx 10 or 11 weeks working up to 14 or 15 in adults.
I have a Hermanns, I hibernate her in a larder-fridge (no icebox) from the beginning of December and usually wake her up by St Patrick's Day.
Babies need 3 weeks starvation before hibernation and adults up to 4 weeks, to ensure an empty digestive tract.
Temperature is hugely important at all times, so heat lights, uV light and access to a cooler area in their habitat (tortoise table indoors).

Overall, they're not a low-maintenance pet, but then, few reptiles really are when you set about recreating a natural habitat for them!

tallus

SCI wrote: »

I'd disagree,there's no reason why a horse field or Herman's tortoise would
not be easy to keep with the right research and advise. My advise is if
you are going to buy a reptile as a pet go to a reptile specialist and not an
every day pet shop. You may also want to look of for local breeders.

Any reptile can be kept successfully with the correct adivce and research.
I wouldn't consider any species of tortoise to be easy to keep, and to be honest I think your post was a bit misleading.
The OP has not even stated if he/she has kept any reptiles in the past, let alone tortoises..
Having kept and bred more than a few species of reptiles over the years I certainly would not consider Torts to be easy to keep.
You're welcome to disagree but that's my opinion.
For the OP some suggested reading : http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/care.html

tallus

Rancid wrote: »

What do baby tortoises do in the wild? They hibernate right from their first year.
So if someone *decides* to keep a tort outside of their natural country of origin, they must recreate their natural habitat as closely as possible.
This includes hibernation EVERY year.
Naturally, this slows their growth, which, with a good diet of weeds prevents shell deformities and metabolic bone disease.

Heat mats are dangerous for tortoises. They are "designed" to absorb heat from above, not below.

If these are the answers your petshop is giving you, find a better one.

Have a look here, all the info is reliable:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/articles.html#husbandry

Seconded.

Rory123

After re-reading my post asking tallus about hibernating the torties, I just want to clarify that I was asking for opinions and wasn't giving any opinion of my own or that of a petshop, as I know very little about tortoises. I wasn't contradicting the practises of someone who knows their stuff.

Just want to make sure everyone understands that.

tallus

Rory123 wrote: »

After re-reading my post asking tallus about hibernating the torties, I just want to clarify that I was asking for opinions and wasn't giving any opinion of my own or that of a petshop, as I know very little about tortoises. I wasn't contradicting the practises of someone who knows their stuff.

Just want to make sure everyone understands that.

My apologies for not replying before now Rory, but the way I see it, the shops can't sell the torts if they hibernate them, the situation is as simple as that. I have yet to come across a pet shop that hibernates their tortoises (though I am open to correction)
It's part of the animals natural life cycle to hibernate, no matter how old they are. I didn't hibernate mine the first year I had them, but in subsequent years I did. If they don't hibernate, it can cause shell deformities due to faster growth as a result of feeding more than they are designed to.
The slower the growth, the better the shell formation.

T

Rancid

tallus wrote: »

...the way I see it, the shops can't sell the torts if they hibernate them, the situation is as simple as that. I have yet to come across a pet shop that hibernates their tortoises (though I am open to correction)
T ...

I have to agree with you, there.
So not alone are they not hibernated, but they are often kept in less than ideal set-ups while waiting to be sold.

tedandbetty

guys my origional question was made a better pet, a tortoise or a bearded dragon. i have read the requirements of both and i i sure i can manage both.

i have no idea if hibernation is necesary or not but if it is natural it would seem better to me to have them hibernate!

i have never kept any reptile before but am anxious to give one a go!

how much live food would a bearded dragon need? and how often?


thanks for your help so far.

tallus

tedandbetty wrote: »

guys my origional question was made a better pet, a tortoise or a bearded dragon. i have read the requirements of both and i i sure i can manage both.

i have no idea if hibernation is necesary or not but if it is natural it would seem better to me to have them hibernate!

i have never kept any reptile before but am anxious to give one a go!

how much live food would a bearded dragon need? and how often?


thanks for your help so far.

I'm not taking a stab at you here tedandbetty so don't take it that way, but if you had read up on the requirements of both you wouldn't have to ask about the hibernation issue.
I think you should go for the bearded dragon to be honest, I mean why start with one of the hardest reptiles to maintain(tortoise).
Dragons are way more widely kept and easier to maintain, also they make better pets than tortoises.
I don't doubt your sincerity, but if you "want to give it a go" as you say, why not start with a leopard gecko or similar creature.
Way cheaper to keep, and house, no need for expensive lighting. And Widely kept.
I just don't think it's fair on the tortoise.
I hope you're not offended, but I wouldn't recommend a tort as a first pet.

tedandbetty

thanks for you reply Tallus and your opinion on which would make a better pet, i will take your comments into consideration then deciding which to buy.

For the record I never asked about hibernation, that was a comment on one of the reply's.
and for your information my research did say that cerain breed do hibernate in nature and i picked up from this that a pet would need to to under the right conditions.

How many Tortoise's have you actually kept Tallus?

tallus

tedandbetty wrote: »

thanks for you reply Tallus and your opinion on which would make a better pet, i will take your comments into consideration then deciding which to buy.

For the record I never asked about hibernation, that was a comment on one of the reply's.
and for your information my research did say that cerain breed do hibernate in nature and i picked up from this that a pet would need to to under the right conditions.

How many Tortoise's have you actually kept Tallus?

I kept two hermanns torts for a number of years. Even as an experienced keeper and breeder of reptiles and after doing a lot of research I still had to consult with an experienced keeper of tortoises.
It's not just the hibernation the diet and housing is really important too.
I. Can dig up some of my photos of the setup if you would like to see. I'm in work now and replying via my phone. Will post up more details laterrp

erinrock

tedandbetty wrote: »

my good wife has been talking about getting a new pet. I have been given the job of researching what to get and have it down to either a Tortoise or a Bearded Dragon. Just wondering if anybody has any experience of either of these and which they would recommend?


your thoughts would be appreciated.


Ted

If i were you i would get a bearded dragon. If you keep them trained they are the most precious reptiles ever. All you have to do is play with it and take care of it. The bigger the tank you get the bigger it will grow. As it grows make sure you give it lettuce and crikets. Sometimes you might want to give it a pinkey as it grows bigger.

TheWolf-IsLoose

Horsfields or Hermanns are great starters though..and the idea that pets aren't just for xmas applies double for tortoises as you'll most likely be putting them in your will!!

Bearded Dragon
Pros: Docile, handleable, omnivore (mealworm compatible:P), fast growing, you can keep them with other lizards; even arboreals, great personalities, low maintenance

Cons:Require large terrarium, smelly, calcium/vitamin D related issues, diet must be maintained, initial set up for beardy is expensive

Tortoise
Pros: Docile, handleable, mostly herbivore excluding some rainforest species (redfoot), most are very hardy; horsfields can be kept in the average Irish garden in summer, extremely long living, only require UV light if any, will diet on Irish garden plants; dandelion, plantoid, have become raltaively cheap over the last year, initial set up is much cheaper

Cons: Extremely long living, despite common belief they are very active and love to climb; large enclosure recommended, problems and confusion regarding hibernation process, less personality than a beardy but some specimens can prove otherwise

orlandobob

Hi and apologies for cutting in on this thread but I came across this site by accident when searching for something else on torts on Google and felt that I had to say my piece as the more people who are aware of what is required regarding keeping torts the better. I agree 100% with tallus in what he is saying about the difficulty level of keeping torts and that the information on the Tortoise Trust website is about as good as it gets.

If I may, and I promise that this is not a spam post and that I have nothing to do with the running of the site or ownership of it, I'd like to point to this site as a good source if info by experienced keepers, breeders, the mistakes made by novices, equipment required etc. My only concern is the welfare of the tortoises and that anyone taking one on gets the best advice possible. Many people on Shelled Warriors have 30 and 40 years experience in keeping and breeding torts. Thanks for your time. http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/forum/index.php

2qk4u

I have no experience with torts but I have a beardie, he is very easy to keep once you get your set up right, I have 4 kids and they all take an interest. He sits outside in the sun during the summer and walks around the house too.
Crickets can be smelly but beardies dont like them after about a year, they prefare locusts and veg.. My enclosure is 4x2x2 which is recomended for an adult. Good luck with your choice.

Hellrazer

erinrock wrote: »

If i were you i would get a bearded dragon. If you keep them trained they are the most precious reptiles ever. All you have to do is play with it and take care of it. The bigger the tank you get the bigger it will grow. As it grows make sure you give it lettuce and crikets. Sometimes you might want to give it a pinkey as it grows bigger.

I had my beardie trained to sit and stay.And it worked--he used to sit under that heat lamp all day

They dont grow "into their cage" Beardies grow to a particular size depending on the sub species.Theres the german giants that grow huge and then theres the normal ones that grow an average size.So keeping them in a huge cage wont make them grow huge.

And lettuce is a big no-no.It has little or no nutritional value for a beardie.I also dont agree with pinkies as they have been know to cause liver problems in beardies.

Not being smart here but that post just goes to show how little you know about keeping Beardies.



2qk4u---those beardies are beautiful by the way.

Rory123

Hellrazer wrote: »

And lettuce is a big no-no.It has little or no nutritional value for a beardie.I also dont agree with pinkies as they have been know to cause liver problems in beardies.

+1 Even I knew about the lettuce thing and I've never even kept a reptile! I wasn't going to say anything though.

RaeRae

If you're looking for something a bit more active and fun I'd say a bearded dragon.

My guy runs about the house when i'm there, curls up on my stomach when i'm reading in bed (it's so hard to have to wake him and put him back in his tank, he's just so cute).

The only thing i'd say is that the feeder insects to add up in cost. I have to buy for him and 9 tarantulas every week and I'm spending up to 20-25 euro and he eats most of it!

But they're a treat to have so I'd definetely recommend.

Busta Hyman

you dont need 2 beardies for company but they are soooo much more interesting with 1 male and 1 female you get to see the arm waveing and head bobbing!

i keep my 2 in a 4 X 2 X 2 enclosure (great size to keep 1 in but will also house 2 / 3

the feeder insects do add up in costs and they can eat a lot (the male isnt so bad but shes a greedy so and so)