Cowen tells us to shut up

BlaasForRafa

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

To be honest I think he's more concerned about the growing influence of commentators such as George Lee, Alan Ahearne, David McWilliams & Morgan Kelly, and also the meteoric rise in references to thepropertypin.com in mainstream media than he is about illinformed dribble.

In short, it's the informed analysis that really has him worried.

Aye, Cowen has been saying it'll be alright for the last year and thats just not true, it won't be alright and the citizens of this state will get the short end of the stick for his bad governance. The likes of Lee and McWilliams are a lot more intelligent than biffo and his cronies.

dresden8

What's really bothering Cowan is it's now become normal in the papers for commentators to start off with "Fianna Fail, who have bankrupted Ireland twice in the last generation".

That's what's really ripped his tits off.

The truth.

D.S.

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

The reason for the “join the dots” media commentary is the secretive nature of the whole banking issue even though we are over 4 months into the crisis. Have the minutes of any important meeting being published? What about the governments PWC audit report on Anglo Irish Bank, again to sensitive for public digestion!

Banking information is generally commercially sensitive because it affects so much more in the market - for instance competitor behaviour.

In a time where market confidence is crucial, I don't personally believe the meeting minutes nor the PWC audit should be published. These are extremely sensitive talks on a number of fronts. Having this information out in the public domain at a time when the markets and the public are over-reacting to any information could have serious ramifications.

However, I do think we should be hearing clear statements from all the banks (individually or collectively) and the government. In addition, we should be provided with a clear short-term road map (i.e. 3 month plan) for navigating the immediate and priority items of this crisis. Things are way too volatile to develop a long-term plan so we need our Government to demonstrate a clear understanding of current events and the implications of Government action, and to develop a very clear and precise short term plan.

Het-Field wrote: »

Cowan is talking rubbish if he consideres that the nation is talking itself into a recession.

1.Was it talking that caused Dell to quit the country
-No, it was the fact that we have allowed ourselves to remain uncompetitive by trying to remian popular with workers through the minimum wage

2.Was it talking that caused Anglo Irish to go under and then expect governmental help
-No, it was inappropriate financial dealings, in conjunction with shady management dealings. The Government brazenly told the Irish people that the bank guarantee would never be touched. Now a bank is Nationalised

3.Was it talk that caused the spending slump before christmas
-No, it was the decision of our Government to raise income tax (through the levy), and raise VAT by 1/2 percent, while VAT just north of the border was almost 4 1/2 % less.

4.Was it talking that caused the government to cutback on the wrong things in Budget 2008...before renaging on them to maintain popularity ?
-No, it was in response to the reactive measures taken against the old the young and the handicapped. The only people who were going to survive that budget were the builders and the public service.

5.Was it talking that has seen CIE suffer savage cutbacks, which will adversely effect many many routes.
No, last summer it became apparent that the Government were squeezing private competitiors from the market, which was a disgrace. They have been unwilling to split up CIE and now the consumers are paying the price.

6.Was it talking which saw the negation of the PDs economic influence in Government in 2004 ?
No, Bertie decided to get all party political, and take John McGunness up on his advice about the PDs. Harney decided to move to health, while McCreevy was sent to Europe and Seamus Brennan (RIP) was demoted. In place of Maverick McCreevy was Cowan the man who would die for Fianna Fail even if it meant bad policy, while Cullen (Ireland' Gombeen man) replaced Brennan. Cowan dithered over the stamp duty issue, he dithered over competition, and look what we have.

7.Was it talking which ensured the conclusion of the new national pay deal, even though we knew that we were heading into the toughest time of many years ?

No, Bertie wished to be friends with the Unions, so much so that Jackie O Conner and his ilk walked all over him. The same lead to the disgraceful treatment of Willie Walsh when he was Aer Lingus. He was a man who was responsible, and could take that sham of a service forward...Bertie didnt allow him

8.Was it talking which had Bertie wandering up to the Mahon Tribunal day in and day out, while diverting the real business at hand ?

No, that was Bertie and his inconistent account of events. That circus, and his sham of a trip to the Joint Houses of Congress, where he brought his builder buddies highlighted that FF had their priorities completely arseways.

9.Was it talking which convinced Fianna Fail to put our trust in them in May 2007

No, that was a party hyped up on power, with breathtaking arrogance as Brian Cowan continuously laughed in the face of the opposition.

We have not talked ouselves into a recession, our clown college of a Government has done that for us. Furthermore, their partners in crime the Greens have been insisting on Green Taxes, Carbon Taxes, remunerating employees who ride bikes, and are only doing their part to drive a deeper wedge into this recession.

In the Sindo on Sunday, Willie O Dea chastised the opposition for no coming together with any solid solutions. I will hold my breath to criticise them until I see those with the power actually making a positive move.

This is a very emotive post. You referenc numberous examples of where things have gone wrong but you don't actually counter Cowen's point. His point is that we are in dire straights right now. Markets are incredibly volatile. Consumer confidence in our banking system is on a knife edge. Today we have experience a flight away from Banking stocks on the market and the increase in price of our national bonds. We have never been so vulnerable as we are now to shock. Any further shock could be disasterous for us. And yet, we have the media, politicians et al, sensationalising events and mis-informing the public on a topic they clearly understand very little about. These sensationalist comments are fuelling a crisis in confidence in our economy and this is the last thing we need right now.

You're right talking hasn't got us here. But mis-informed talk could take us to a much darker place than we are right now.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

To be honest I think he's more concerned about the growing influence of commentators such as George Lee, Alan Ahearne, David McWilliams & Morgan Kelly, and also the meteoric rise in references to thepropertypin.com in mainstream media than he is about illinformed dribble.

In short, it's the informed analysis that really has him worried.

I am not sure if you are saying that the "informed analysis" is actually informed or mis-informed. For me, it's the latter. THe supposedly "informed" commentry in this country has been simply awful. McWilliams & Kelly in particular have written some atrocious articles lately. Kelly's column today was off the mark by a mile and mixed personal opinion with fact in a damaging way. McWilliams at times can be the most lucid and perceptive man about and at other times can spout nonsense. His comments recently on leaving the Euro and then subsequently, threatening to leave the Euro, in my opinion, were ill-advised and not a tactic our Government should employ.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Aye, Cowen has been saying it'll be alright for the last year and thats just not true, it won't be alright and the citizens of this state will get the short end of the stick for his bad governance. The likes of Lee and McWilliams are a lot more intelligent than biffo and his cronies.

I have said this in the Economics forum but I'll mention it again here. Cowen or Lenihan nor the Fianna Fail party are Banking experts. They are not even Economists for the most part. They are simply politicians. In a crisis like this, of which is unique in nature, there is no rule book and our Government is simply left to follow the advice of their advisors. They have nothing else to go on, no other avenues of expertise to draw upon.

Secondly, with respect to the banking crisis, I don't believe the Government have actually made a poor play yet. The guarantee scheme achieved what it was supposed to (enable the banks to raise funds) although perhaps it was too short in being only 2 years in length. The Government's behaviour with regards to capitalisation and nationalisation has been driven by the information at their disposal. Capitalisation would of sufficed for Anglo had the revelations of the board not come to pass, and subsequently the run on the bank on the deposit side.

Personally, I think the Government have been too slow to react to this crisis. They have taken their time (most likely due to their lack of expertise and reliance on consultants) when speed and direction are of the essence. I think the success or failure of this Government in managing the banking crisis will be determined by the actions we see from now:

- Will Anglo be wound down over the medium-long term or will it continue to trade as the 3rd largest bank?
- Will consolidation be forced upon the incumbents in the industry?
- Will a Government ran bad bank be created to house and manage bad debt?
- What strategies will be brought in to ensure the release of credit to the market, if any? How will lending standards be strengthened and monitored over the medium term?
- How will banks continue to raise funding after capitalisation? Is there more money in the kitty? Will the Government mimic the Uk in bringing in a similar "insurance" type scheme?


And that's just on the banking side. The Government also need to address questions on public spending, exchequer funding, rising unemployment, migration of talent away from these shores, funding exchequer borrowing (particularly post recapitalisation and should we lose our Triple A rating), etc etc etc.

I'm no way pro Government but it's a tricky time. A nightmare time really. Personally, I have no problem with a Government saying it can't answer all of the above. However, I want my Government to demonstrate leadership. How are you going to find out? By when? How long before any action is implemented? Bring us a plan. Be clear. Be open. Provide as much information as possible and remove the uncertainty that is grinding the economy to a halt.

g5fd6ow0hseima

taconnol wrote: »

Did anyone else hear Cowen saying that criticism of the government's handling could damage the Irish economy and advising the media and political leaders to desist from any negative comments?

Am I insane or is this censorship?

Typical, traditional Irish ignorance

SeanW

dresden8 wrote: »

What's really bothering Cowan is it's now become normal in the papers for commentators to start off with "Fianna Fail, who have bankrupted Ireland twice in the last generation".

That's what's really ripped his tits off.

The truth.

Indeed, I saw this coming as far back as 2001/2002, when Charlie McCreevy cut taxes and increased spending during boom time - part of a set of "pro cyclical" policies that even most fans of government controlled economics believe are a bad idea - i.e. increasing the supply of cash in the economy during good times, causing inflation and overheating, as well as
leaving the public finances with less ability to take a downturn ... sound familiar? McCreevy had got a rap on the knuckles from the EU at the time, but hey, it's OK, he got to play Santa Claus every Dec. 6th for a couple of years before he f@#ked off to Brussels.

What they need to be doing now is to pursue the much discussed "knowledge economy" through education etc, take on the fat, lazy, overpaid and underworked parts of the public services, and work tirelessly to reduce business costs and red tape.

But instead we're cutting education funding yet further, handing inefficient public sector unions back their monopolies (just look at the Driver Testing Service mess, the ESB unions that just got a pay rise, the HSE mess that noone wants to touch), and increasing our mess of red tape (look at the new litter laws in Dublin that will force takeaways to custom-print napkins and drink cups with their name and address for example).

I don't know who's worse: Charlie McCreevy for being a vote whoring gobs***e, or the current crowd, for being at best a rabbit in the headlamps (and possibly still whoring themselves out to the builders lobby), or us as people for letting these clowns come back for more in 2002 and 2007 when all the evidence shows they couldn't be trusted to run a hotel mens room.

seanybiker

D.S. wrote: »

Relax lads. He's not saying you don't have a right to say what you want. He's just pointing out (and rightly) that the amount of illinformed dribble that we are seeing in the press and generally spoken about is causing a crisis in confidence.

Personally, I think the media are making this whole thing an awful lot worse. We know they need to sell papers but all the papers are accountable for reporting sensationalising and misleading the public to some degree.

Things are dire, no doubt about it. But journalists, with no bank ground in banking, are attempting the joining the dots, and have on more than one occasion got it wrong or not painted the whole picture.

International confidence in Irish banks is paramount to kickstart our economy again and Cowen is simply stressing.

I'm not pro Cowen by the way - just think the man has a point.

Agree with ya 100%

seanybiker

dresden8 wrote: »

What's really bothering Cowan is it's now become normal in the papers for commentators to start off with "Fianna Fail, who have bankrupted Ireland twice in the last generation".

That's what's really ripped his tits off.

The truth.

It is the truth. Who voted them in though. little wink for ya

DublinWriter

taconnol wrote: »

Did anyone else hear Cowen saying that criticism of the government's handling could damage the Irish economy and advising the media and political leaders to desist from any negative comments?

I take it, by the same strategy, jumping up on the back of a lorry in Offaly with a pint in your hand and singing a few come-all-ye's isn't damaging to the image of Irish political leadership?

Wow. What a shrewd strategist and political leader.

Now I realise why we give him a bigger salary than Barack Obama or Gordon Brown.

Macha

Giuliana Gorgeous Jeep wrote: »

Typical, traditional Irish ignorance

Maybe you'd like to redeem your churlish comment with some actual valued input?

I don't claim to know it all and am finding the responses in this thread, on both sides of the argument, very interesting and informative.

Irlbo

A leader is someone who is dynamic,out-spoken,admired,someone with flair and who can make hard decisions on others behalf,give direction and be a role model to the young,we should have a Taoiseach thats respected by other world leaders,what do we have?????,an extremely ugly horrid looking man,whose mannerism and attitude match his rotten apperance,he cant orate or speak,he mumbles,as he jitters and shakes nervously in everything he does,he's about as trustwortyh and competant as a sewer rat,other countries most look on and cry laughing

dh2007

Sure of course he's telling us to shut up, he's had enough of the bad press! :rolleyes:

Sean Fitzpatrick lives locally and I just heard that him and Brian Cowan are golfing buddies.

Now why does that not surprise me???

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Maybe if Cowen came out and actually addressed the issue and gave us a proper idea of what the Governments plan to turn this economy back around is the media and voters wouldn't have to be guessing and making stories up.

Cowen is not leading this state, I mean look back at the 80's and Charlie Haughey, BTW I hate that man and everything bad he did, and look at how he addressed the nation directly and told us how bad things were.

This economy is going down the sink and quick, people are deluding themselves if they think that not talking about it or only reporting positives is gong to in some help the situation, this state has overstretched itself by a country mile and the sooner people realise that unemployment is going to rise and rise and rise and tax returns are going to decline decline and decline the better.

Cowen needs to lead from the front directly addressing the issues to the people who voted him and those who didn't. I don't rate the man and don't rate his party but an election now is the last thing this state needs, if Cowen comes out and asks us all to put our shoulder to the wheel I will support him not because I support FF but because I support this nation and FG and Labour need to drop the party political crap and work with Cowen to turn this around.

ejmaztec

Cowen should shut up until he announces that any guilty party is going to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, no matter whose pal they happen to be.

juuge

dresden8 wrote: »

That's what's really ripped his tits off.

He has bigger tits than my last girlfriend:rolleyes:

ejmaztec

juuge wrote: »

He has bigger tits than my last girlfriend:rolleyes:

Shame about the face.

Darragh29

He looks like something that just got kicked out of an early house...

thebman

I think the main reason the public is so angry is that we have the biggest financial crisis we have ever faced and there still seems to be no accountability for this as with every other crisis we have faced for about the past 20 years.

If we don't learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them. We haven't learned jack sh*t as we haven't investigated those responsible to see how they lead us down this path.

ejmaztec

brim4brim wrote: »

I think the main reason the public is so angry is that we have the biggest financial crisis we have ever faced and there still seems to be no accountability for this as with every other crisis we have faced for about the past 20 years.

If we don't learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them. We haven't learned jack sh*t as we haven't investigated those responsible to see how they lead us down this path.

I think that one or two auditors are keeping a low profile as well. They may be at the head of the queue for getting it in the neck.

There must have been some strange balance sheets out there.