loyal Waterford?

showry

was watching a show tonight about Camden's study of Ireland in the 16th century and I thought I'd look up what he had to say about Waterford. Interesting stuff (or maybe not). From here

This City, which the Irish and Britans cal Porthlargy, the English Waterford, was built by certaine Pirats of Norway; and although it standeth in an aire somewhat grosse, and upon a soile not very fruitfull, and the streets therein bee with the narrowest thrust close and pent together, yet such is the convenience and commodiousnesse of the haven that for wealth, fresh trading, and frequent resort, it is the second City in all Ireland, and hath alwaies shewed a singular loialty, fidelity, and obedience to the Imperiall crowne of England. For ever since that Richard Earle of Pembrok wanne it, it hath continued so faithfull and quietly disposed that it performed at all times safe and secure peace unto the English on their backes, whiles they went on in the conquering of Ireland. Whence it is that the Kings of England have granted unto it very many, and those right large, Franchises, which King Henry the Seventh augmented and conformed because the citizens had demeaned themselves most manfully and wisely against that Mock-Prince Perkin Warbeck, who, being a young man of base condition, by hoising [raising] up the full sailes of impudence went about to mount up aloft unto the Imperiall diadem, whiles hee, a meere suborned counterfeite, tooke upon him to bee Richard Duke of Yorke, the second sonne of King Edward the Fourth.

brendansmith

Awesome thread man, nice find.

I can see this one spanning at least 20 pages.

Sully

brendansmith wrote: »

Awesome thread man, nice find.

I can see this one spanning at least 20 pages.

If that was your attempt at sarcasm then you failed.

If not then I failed.

Either way, someone failed.

Carry on.

SUNGOD

brendansmith wrote: »

Awesome thread man, nice find.

I can see this one spanning at least 20 pages.

not as AWESOME as your totally original username ..so whats your real name brendansmith:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:



its ok if you cant understand the thread
just after realising your initials are BS now thats funny

robtri

what I love about the Waterford forum, is how we all keep on topic!!!!!!!!

patrickstarfish

brendansmith wrote: »

Awesome thread man, nice find.

I can see this one spanning at least 20 pages.

20 pages???
aren't we still on the first ?
#no loyalty here !:P

abouttobebanned

I think this is quite interesting because I've always though of Waterford as the most Anglicised of all the cities. There's just something remotely un-irish about this place and I could never put my finger on what it is.

merlante

abouttobebanned wrote: »

I think this is quite interesting because I've always though of Waterford as the most Anglicised of all the cities. There's just something remotely un-irish about this place and I could never put my finger on what it is.

Well it was never an Irish city, was it? Viking 914-1171, where they still spoke old-Norse, iirc., and then English speaking after that. Official use of English in council minute books in Waterford represent the oldest use of English for official purposes in Ireland. Even the name Waterford is norse.

bullpost

Kinda explains why we have been neglected since Independence.

AlphaMale 3OO

I don't think Waterford helps the cause by being a little insular though. I love it here but am pretty much sick of being asked all my life, "Hows things down in Wexford?". That is a result of Waterford people keeping to themselves and not really getting out there and diversifying. More annoying than the Wexford thing is Waterford people constantly droning on about "I hehts Duublin boi". It's that stay away attitude that gets us mixed up with our less prominent neighbours.

magick

AlphaMale 3OO wrote: »

I don't think Waterford helps the cause by being a little insular though. I love it here but am pretty much sick of being asked all my life, "Hows things down in Wexford?". That is a result of Waterford people keeping to themselves and not really getting out there and diversifying. More annoying than the Wexford thing is Waterford people constantly droning on about "I hehts Duublin boi". It's that stay away attitude that gets us mixed up with our less prominent neighbours.

meh, perhaps they need to open their minds and travel more, i never got that attitude when living in Waterford and never really encountered anyone who had it either. But having said that i do think some folks in Waterford do have a small town mindset.

fuzzy dunlop

It's hard to imagine that someone has actually suggested that Waterford was never an Irish city. Waterford is and always was an Irish city.Any perceived alegience to "the crown" was more about self preservation than real alegiance. Lack of centralised authority among Gaelic Ireland meant that any alegiance other than " the crown" would have resulted in the destruction of the city as frequently happened in England and Ireland..The same can be said for the refusal of the pretender Perkin Warbeck. Pretenders to the crown in those days had a fair chance of success therfore the refusal of Warbeck to the city was a gamble that paid off but could also have gone the other way.The other basis that it was never an Irish city is based on a precarious assumption that it was never a Gaelic city. While the city was founded by the Vikings it was not subordinate to any Scandinavian authority in a meaningful way.They were independent effectively being just another kingdom on the Island of Ireland hence geographically an Irish city. These same Vikings established strong bloodlines with the Gaelic Irish and became what is known today as Hiberno Norse. Similar Integration with the Normans would have meant that their would have been a strong Gaelic Irish influence in the city hence lingusitcally Irish.It was this successful integration of Invaders into Irish society that "crown feared" which resulted in the statutes of Kilkenny, The continued usage of the English language in officialdom is probably due to these acts than anything else.Defining the "Irishness" of the city in this way is akin to calling the present city a Gaeltacht because a preamble is read "As Gaeilge" at a council meeting. If Waterford was as distinct from being Irish as is often suggested we would have had a much stronger Protestant ascendency than we had in reality.But this was not the case and in fact the protestant commuty was only average in size compared to even rural Ireland contrary to some misconceptions.Any Protestant dominance was due to the penal laws which still didn't stop the Catholic Irish from dominating the economy of the city from a distance in France. The initial post while interesting should be seen as nothing more than a 17th century equivelent to "A lonely Planet" guide.