WIT Protest against Fees

Sully

For those of you who don't read the WIT forum and take an interest in this..

A protest is being held tomorrow at 11am against the governments intention of bringing in college fees. A large gathering is apparently expected to march from the college down the quays.

I am told that classes have been cancelled during the period the march is on.

Will hit home with the local college and the Students Union are sending out the image that by introducing fees your reducing the number of degrees etc.

BlaasForRafa

They've increased taxes on the working population so an increase in college fees is fair enough. Its up to everyone to do their bit in these economic circumstances

Cabaal

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

They've increased taxes on the working population so an increase in college fees is fair enough. Its up to everyone to do their bit in these economic circumstances

I'd tend to agree really, college and school costs in Ireland are nothing compared to those in other countrys such as the USA, if somebody needs to raise the money for the fees then just do a summer job and get the money that way.....most people do a job of some sort anyway during summer months and in later school years

All that drink money students often spend* could go towards paying there fees instead of down the toilet

*No all students drink likes fish's

ziedth

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

They've increased taxes on the working population so an increase in college fees is fair enough. Its up to everyone to do their bit in these economic circumstances

TBF I see your point but it's not exactly the same thing.

Lets say for example the average (By average I mean when I was in college) works 20-24 Hours a week and pulls out about the €250 in wages and doesn't get a grant or much help from home. Now When they tried to bring in these fee's then they were going to be like 3k a year so i'll assume they are proposing the same amount.

So that is going to essentially be "TAX" of 12 weeks of their full wages. So if the goverment will turn around and charge us all 5-6k in "TAX" next september would we be saying that we have to do out bit.

I do think that Fee's have to come in but the Goverment just can't turn around and say oh that will by 3k by the way. IMO, they need to say look in however many years time we are introducing fee's like it or lump it by we are starting up an incentive so that you can save €50 a week for the next however many years.

christophicus

Completely agree with you. I've been told it will be over 5000 euro for a year. . I am half way through a degree atm. I am ****ed if these fees come in. There is no way I will be able to raise over 5 grand ( possibly more ) for next September.

This is a pretty idiotic move by the government. I would not be at all surprised if college numbers drop by a third or more. We are supposedly promoting a knowledge economy in this country, and especially with the current global economic conditions we should be looking to provide the highly skilled employees ( even more so then we have been providing over the last 10/15 years )that would attract companies to the country. The government expects to do this by reducing the number of people going to college ?

You gotta love our government all right.......

gscully

They're all gonna walk into town?

Where are they gonna leave their cars???

Cabaal

gscully wrote: »

They're all gonna walk into town?

Where are they gonna leave their cars???

Around Lismore park?

robtri

No offence to any student, but good enough...... Students have it too easy in general...
I do have pity for the students that honestly cannot afford it, and would like to see something done for them, but I am talking the real cases, not the usual student, who will be out protesting today,
they want us to pay for their education, so a lot can emigrate and not contribute anything to the economy of the future,

a lot of them want grants...

the student bars are packed.... but they cannot afford the fees..

a lot of them drive again, they can afford the car, petrol, taxes etc...

a lot of them take holidays abroad during the year...

a good few students can afford rent, yet their home is within commutable distance of the college, they just don't want to live with mammy and daddy so they can party hard....

they seriously need a reality check and told where to F***ing go....

Cabaal

While robtri's post doesn't apply to 100% of students it certainly does apply to a fair amount, we all know what students are like drink wise etc hell most of us used to be one so you can't say it doesn't happen

There's plenty of students our there that can afford these fees yet they'll be out protesting with those that really truly can not.

robtri

Cabaal wrote: »

While robtri's post doesn't apply to 100% of students it certainly does apply to a fair amount, we all know what students are like drink wise etc hell most of us used to be one so you can't say it doesn't happen

There's plenty of students our there that can afford these fees yet they'll be out protesting with those that really truly can not.

Sorry I hope I made it clear, my post wasn't intended to label all students...

Baby4

This post has been deleted.

ziedth

robtri wrote: »

they want us to pay for their education, so a lot can emigrate and not contribute anything to the economy of the future,

a lot of them want grants...

the student bars are packed.... but they cannot afford the fees..

a lot of them drive again, they can afford the car, petrol, taxes etc...

a lot of them take holidays abroad during the year...

a good few students can afford rent, yet their home is within commutable distance of the college, they just don't want to live with mammy and daddy so they can party hard....

they seriously need a reality check and told where to F***ing go....

I have to agree with you here, The ones who get grants then emigrate is a red button for me.

Surely the answer though is a much more tightly controlled grant system, Because what is going to happen is the students who can afford it but somehow get a grant because of some loophole won't pay a bean.

well butty

Maybe the Governmet could use their newly aquired bank (Anglo Irish) to give students loans that could be paid back once they are gainfully employed.

shapez

I agree with the introduction of the fees also. I know friends in the states that have anything between $20,000 & $50,000 loans to pay back after the graduate from Uni.

It's back to the hard fact of life, I guess. I had to pay fees when I started college then about a year later they were abolished. Yes, it's hard and yes I do feel for people who genuinely cannot afford them and want a good education. But, it's the same with everyhting at the moment isn't it. We can't have it all the easy way.

CantGetNoSleep

I am a student, and have close friends in both the UK and USA - my English friends are £12,000 in debt while my American friends are around $90,000 in debt at the same stage as me, yet I owe no one anything and have been away every summer since I started college and my parents aren't exactly millionaires or even anywhere near it, so I agree that we have it handy compared to some countries

But if fees are brought in it will have to be through some sort of a loan system where you pay it back once you are earning over a certain amount, if it was decided that students must pay €7,000 to enroll in September you can be certain that over half of students would be forced to drop out, people simply do not have that sort of money lying around

stick-dan

Can someone please tell me this because i am confused. Thiese fees coming in how much are they? If you are already on a grant what does that mean. I too am going into my fourth year of my course in september and i know i wont be able to raise 7000. I'm on a grant, im not a student who has their mammy and daddy to pay for everything.I don't drink or smoke and all my summer money pays for my house. I pay my own way through. I'm just wondering will i have to defer? Will my grant pay it? What is the story?Anyone enlighten me to this?It's completely unfair. I heard that the fees only apply to those who are over a certain earning bracket is this true also?

Will it affect those of us in courses already.

CantGetNoSleep

stick-dan wrote: »

Can someone please tell me this because i am confused. Thiese fees coming in how much are they? If you are already on a grant what does that mean. I too am going into my fourth year of my course in september and i know i wont be able to raise 7000. I'm on a grant, im not a student who has their mammy and daddy to pay for everything.I don't drink or smoke and all my summer money pays for my house. I pay my own way through. I'm just wondering will i have to defer? Will my grant pay it? What is the story?Anyone enlighten me to this?It's completely unfair. I heard that the fees only apply to those who are over a certain earning bracket is this true also?

Will it affect those of us in courses already.

Yes, nothing has been decided yet, although it is likely that fees will be introduced very soon, starting with families earning over €100,000 or so, however given the current economic situation it is likely that this limit would soon be lowered and the grant scheme may be cut back

It was also announced in the budget that the college registration fee would be increased from €~800 to €~1500, meaning that most students will have to pay around €~1650 at the start of next September, this is without the new fees being brought in, however grant students are exempt from registration fees

well butty

Third level education is being used by some students who just don't want to work. They start a course, realise they don't like it. Quit after a year or two and start another one (at tax payer's expense). Put a charge in place and weed out the ones that weaken the quality of degrees that are issued. Support the disadvantaged students by providing Government backed loans. This will ensure that the ones that do take up the option of spending 3-5 years in college will value it and work hard at succeeding.

dlofnep

Just back now. Got absolutely soaked. Great turnout though!

stick-dan

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Yes, nothing has been decided yet, although it is likely that fees will be introduced very soon, starting with families earning over €100,000 or so, however given the current economic situation it is likely that this limit would soon be lowered and the grant scheme may be cut back

It was also announced in the budget that the college registration fee would be increased from €~800 to €~1500, meaning that most students will have to pay around €~1650 at the start of next September, this is without the new fees being brought in, however grant students are exempt from registration fees

So if you're being assessed and you only earn about ~40,000 this won't affect you is this correct?

Sully

President of USI doesnt think that it will be means tested despite whats being made out by Batt.

merlante

Landing students in debt before they even have the necessary qualifications (or time) to earn a proper salary is bloody stupid and all it does is foist some of our current financial shortfall on future workers, who will also have to pay our oh so helpful and responsible banking institutions a chunk of interest. If anyone has to go into debt for this then we've gone backwards as a country.

On the other hand, I'm not against families who are bringing in 100,000+ euro a year paying fees that rise with income (up to a point). These families can afford to pay and -- my socialist side coming out here -- there's no point in giving them free education when all they're doing is using the money saved to put their kids through grind schools so they can beat the poor/average to the best college places.

On the other other hand, what if you are 18+ years of age, with rich parents that won't lift a finger to help you financially? Can you dis-include your parents for means testing if they are not contributing? After all, the state can't force your parents to pay, even if they can force you to pay.

In short, I think that fees are a good idea for the wealthy, as long as the system is sensible and is sensitive to individual situations where people are in danger of falling through the cracks. Third level education, for those who are willing and able, is and should be a fundamental right in this country. A lot of the people here have already benefitted from it, even if some of us had a hard enough time paying for capitation, rent, books, food and yes, socialising, as it was.

twkm05

Its not surprising to see all you jealous fuc.kers given out bout students. Before i even read the post I guessed youd have sum ppl in their 30s and 40s given out about us.

For the amount of money that this country accumulated over the last 10 years there shouldnt be an excuse to charge student fees.
We are going to turn back to the 70s and 80s now when only the rich fuc.kers went to college.
Dont get me wrong i agree that theres plenty of cu.nts that drive cars in college and have money to burn but for ppl like me next yr will be impossible if i dont get my grant.

My mother is disabled and father deceased so theres no income at all apart from the VEC grant every few months.
You probably say "work" if you want to live. Well thats not feasable in my course.

If rich bast.ards can get the parents allowance etc then students shoulnt have to pay fees.

This country should be ashamed of itself. It has been run by a pack of monkeys since the 90s and it has finally went down the toilet.

Bards

If fees have to be introduicing then I would prefer the system they have in Australia - A Graduate tax/Levy which is linked to the graduate's future pay for a variable amount of time depending how many years were spent in college.

Brian Hayes also agrees with this
===========================
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1122/1227293432163.html


THE INTRODUCTION of a graduate tax or levy as a means of funding third-level education instead of the return of college fees has been proposed by Fine Gael spokesman on education, Brian Hayes.

In a speech to the Fine Gael national conference in Wexford last night, Mr Hayes outlined his plan whereby graduates would pay a contribution, deductible at source, for a number of years after they entered the labour force.

One way of doing this would be through an extra PRSI charge. Mr Hayes said: "Paying a small proportion of your income over a period after you graduate, although difficult to sell, would in my view be a fairer solution to this issue."

Noting that the recent Budget had increased college registration charges from €900 to €1,500, Mr Hayes said: "Whatever happens in the future, this party will never support the reintroduction of fees, I give you my word on that." The increase in registration charges was "a regressive stealth tax that is designed to plug a financial hole that is now emerging in many third-level colleges".

However, Mr Hayes added that the present system could not continue.

"It would be dishonest of me to suggest that the current funding mechanism for higher education in this country is sustainable in the long run.

"More colleges now find themselves in a difficult financial position because funding has not kept pace with the radical increase in numbers, and salary costs now represent a much greater proportion of overall budgets within our universities and institutes."

The income deduction could be ringfenced for higher education, but before a new funding arrangement was put in place, there would have to be fundamental reform of the sector and he hoped to publish a Green Paper on this area.

There should be more rigorous assessment of standards; greater access to third level for students from poorer backgrounds; improved co-operation between colleges; more teaching or student contact hours and greater focus on meeting labour force skill requirements.

"We're not going back to the reintroduction of fees; I have given you an assurance on that. I am equally against a loan system, as I believe that it's overly bureaucratic and would discourage students to participate in higher education as they would be saddled with significant amounts of debt just after leaving college," he said.

He suggested it was not unreasonable "to ask graduates to pay a contribution, deductible at source, for a number of years after they enter the labour force? One way of making a contribution could be through the existing PRSI system, it's one option amongst many.

"Paying a small proportion of your income over a period after you graduate, although difficult to sell, would in my view be a fairer solution to this issue. There are many ways you could do this.

"Whatever system you put in place needs to be clear, straightforward and above all else encourages students to go to and stay in college. We don't need new agencies to administer this. Making a contribution at source means that a new fund could be ringfenced for the sole use of higher education," Mr Hayes said.

© 2008 The Irish Times

dlofnep

Oh that's a great incentive to graduate :rolleyes:

BlaasForRafa

shapez wrote: »

I agree with the introduction of the fees also. I know friends in the states that have anything between $20,000 & $50,000 loans to pay back after the graduate from Uni.

It's back to the hard fact of life, I guess. I had to pay fees when I started college then about a year later they were abolished. Yes, it's hard and yes I do feel for people who genuinely cannot afford them and want a good education. But, it's the same with everyhting at the moment isn't it. We can't have it all the easy way.

Indeed, the intention of further educaton is that the student would end up getting a better paid job at the end of it.

Why should paye workers on or below the average industrial wage subsidise the cost of students who get a free education and then go on to earn more than them? Fairs fair, perhaps student loans would be better than grants but some kind of payback is needed, especially now that there are going to be less people in work to share the burden

BlaasForRafa

twkm05 wrote: »

Its not surprising to see all you jealous fuc.kers given out bout students. Before i even read the post I guessed youd have sum ppl in their 30s and 40s given out about us.

For the amount of money that this country accumulated over the last 10 years there shouldnt be an excuse to charge student fees.
We are going to turn back to the 70s and 80s now when only the rich fuc.kers went to college.
Dont get me wrong i agree that theres plenty of cu.nts that drive cars in college and have money to burn but for ppl like me next yr will be impossible if i dont get my grant.

My mother is disabled and father deceased so theres no income at all apart from the VEC grant every few months.
You probably say "work" if you want to live. Well thats not feasable in my course.

If rich bast.ards can get the parents allowance etc then students shoulnt have to pay fees.

This country should be ashamed of itself. It has been run by a pack of monkeys since the 90s and it has finally went down the toilet.

We're the ones paying the TAXES that get you through college. Your bad manners are indicating that our money is not being well spent.

dlofnep

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

We're the ones paying the TAXES that get you through college. Your bad manners are indicating that our money is not being well spent.

I've been working since I was 14, paying taxes since I was 18 - started college as a mature student.. I'm pretty sure I've paid my own taxes. And the taxes that we will pay later on in life will more than cover our costs as a single person. You can keep your taxes tbh. I'm sure you've never benefitted from the collective country's taxes before... Roads, public services, transport, etc... right?

alpha2zulu

Im a student at the moment. The facts are that there is a percentage of students who could certainly be capable of paying higher fees.As other have said, even compared with the UK, going to college here is very reasonably priced.If your parents are earning over 100k a year of course you should be making a bigger contribution to running 3rd level colleges.

At the other end of the scale there are others that if fees were increased and if they werent means tested, probably could not afford to go to college.
However in the middle there is also a lot of people who are abuseing the grants system and are purely an unnecssary expense for the government.Even if this is maybe 10/15% of the student population the cost must run into tens of millions countrywide. I know of several people very close to me that direct their grants to drinking money or car insurance etc.

Thats a fact, and for the USI to pretend otherwise is plain false. If the Government think up a sensible system of fees, life will go on, with the result that the tweedy group will probably be the main losers from any rethink.

Dont mean to be a killjoy:D but thats just the way I see it.

Could they not have had the protest on a Saturday or in the evening, that way nobody would have had to miss any classes....priorities eh:rolleyes:

dlofnep

Yeah, because that's what the city needs - Gridlock on a Saturday in town. Marches require approval before they go ahead.

The simple fact of the reality is it already costs 30k+ for a degree per student.. In some cases up to 38K.. With the fees that would go up to 70k.. For middle-earning families you don't take into account multiple children. What if they wanted to send 2 children? €140,000 - It doesn't seem so feasible now, does it? And then what about children who want to go to college but their parents have financial strain over bills and can't afford it? What happens if a parent loses their job during the current economic crisis, resulting in a child having to drop out of college?

For a good economy, education must be free! It's our tax that everyone will benefit from in a few years. Think long-term, not short term.

Jack burton

Well in my opinion it is bad but then again it will stop people doing F***k all in college, i work a lot and still go to my lectures and it makes me sick to see these F&£"$"%&$ wasters in my class, " ah i wasnt in yesterday, too hungover " charge them 5000 and see how hungover they are then.