Ice in car park = Burst Tyre...!!

vectra

Went into my local supermarket this morning,
Went the exact route through car park as I normally do except for this time it was like glass and I only discovered this when I turned the wheel to go across to my usual parking area.
The car went straight on instead of turning.. I hit the brakes immediatly which made no difference. I let them off again and turned the wheel the opposite way which made no difference so I satraightened the wheels again and floored the brakes..
No hope of stopping :eek:

Went straight on over a high kerb and landed the car on top of a flower bed inches from a Big Light pole.
Got some fright :eek:

I managed to reverse off the flower bed and crawl across to another parking space.
When this happened one of the staff members was locking his own car and saw the whole thing happen.
When i did manage to park the car i got out to hear a dreaded Hissing sound,
Yup
Front tyre with a hole in it.

Alloy took a hit also but looks ok.

He said.
Jeez you were lucky there the place is like a skating rink.

I walked with him to the door and another staff member was salting the area outside the shop with a bucket of salt.

I met the assistant manager on my way out and he was all in a fluster and asked if i needed a drive anywhare. I said no I have to change the wheel and get it sorted.

Now
There were no signs etc. up around the place warning of the conditions.
I had already driven all over town and all roads were perfect.


I wonder would they hold any responsability as to the cost of the new tyre I have to fork out for?

it wont be cheap and it only has 8k kilometers on it so was good for a long time yet.
Car only 1 year old and mint.
Dunlop SP SPORT MAXX 205/45 ZR16 83W with rim protection...


What your views on this one lads?

I could do without this now.

Anan1

Sorry to hear that. I can't really see how the shop could be blamed for the weather though, TBH. I think you'll just have to chalk it up as one of those things.

vectra

Anan1 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that. I can't really see how the shop could be blamed for the weather though, TBH. I think you'll just have to chalk it up as one of those things.

I would have thought they should have some sort of warning up when it is in their property ?
You know,
Like the "Wet Floor" warnings in Mc.Donalds etc??

Cookie_Monster

How fast were you driving in the carpark for that to happen?

Treating it like a racetrack were we:p

Sleipnir

"Management accept no responsibility for damage to vehicles whilst parked here"

Not even one of those signs?

I'd say you're flogging a dead horse if you try to get them to accept responsibility for what Jack Frost did last night.

unkel

It was exceptionally slippy this morning (here in Dublin) although it didn't look it. One of those things I suppose...

Anan1 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that. I can't really see how the shop could be blamed for the weather though, TBH. I think you'll just have to chalk it up as one of those things.

+1

Yakult

well just its all down to the driver awareness and thinking pod. Thats like me going "the town isnt icey at all, so I can put it down going out the small country road."

You must remember the towns are usually gritted early and ice is gone due to traffic going over it, places like back ally's, car parks can be prone to ice due to less traffic removing it.

All in all, just badluck I thinks.

vectra

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

How fast were you driving in the carpark for that to happen?

Treating it like a racetrack were we:p

Stopped on the main road at the entrance to allow traffic to pass before i could cross the road.
Drove up an incline which apparently was not frozen. was in 1st gear in a 1.4tdi
How fast would you be able to go?

Sleipnir wrote: »

"Management accept no responsibility for damage to vehicles whilst parked here"

Not even one of those signs?

I'd say you're flogging a dead horse if you try to get them to accept responsibility for what Jack Frost did last night.

Car was not parked when this happend so may not be covers in that point


Nothing to do with jack frost in my eyes.
Their property.
Up to them not to be neglignet?
Supposing a person was standing there waiting to cross and I wiped them out??

Who would be at fault then?


As another point.
I spoke to a woman afterwards in another shop in town and she went in there around the same time as mshe went for a parking spot but the car passed it out.
She almost wet herself

Anan1

You.;)

OldmanMondeo

Would the council be liable for not gritting roads? ehhh no. Sorry, but it's from your own pocket. Same happen me a few years ago, about to stop in a parking space, stepped on brakes and took off, staight into a fence and damaged the wing.

TBH you should be aware off driving conditions.

Anan1

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

stepped on brakes and took off

Saab Ed

Sorry but if I did what you did I dont think Id be here telling everybody about it. Stand up and take responsibilty for your bad driving. Any fool could spot it was icy this morning and you need to take care. Thank God that flower pot wasnt my kids. If you are not sure what is and isnt ice then my best advice is stay off the road. Accidents happen I know but stop trying to blame someone else for your f**k up.

Cookie_Monster

vectra wrote: »

Stopped on the main road at the entrance to allow traffic to pass before i could cross the road.
Drove up an incline which apparently was not frozen. was in 1st gear in a 1.4tdi
How fast would you be able to go?

I'm sure i COULD go really fast but I wouldn't cos that would be stupid.

vectra wrote: »

Went straight on over a high kerb and landed the car on top of a flower bed inches from a Big Light pole.

To bounce over a high kerb and into a flower bed must have been fairly fast TBH. Otherwise you would have just bounced off the kerb.

The "Management accept no risk..." sign is applicable in this case I think, be it parking or driving to or from a space.

Del2005

vectra wrote: »

Went into my local supermarket this morning,
Went the exact route through car park as I normally do except for this time it was like glass and I only discovered this when I turned the wheel to go across to my usual parking area.
The car went straight on instead of turning.. I hit the brakes immediatly which made no difference. I let them off again and turned the wheel the opposite way which made no difference so I satraightened the wheels again and floored the brakes..
No hope of stopping :eek:

Went straight on over a high kerb and landed the car on top of a flower bed inches from a Big Light pole.
Got some fright :eek:

I managed to reverse off the flower bed and crawl across to another parking space.
When this happened one of the staff members was locking his own car and saw the whole thing happen.
When i did manage to park the car i got out to hear a dreaded Hissing sound,
Yup
Front tyre with a hole in it.

Alloy took a hit also but looks ok.

He said.
Jeez you were lucky there the place is like a skating rink.

I walked with him to the door and another staff member was salting the area outside the shop with a bucket of salt.

I met the assistant manager on my way out and he was all in a fluster and asked if i needed a drive anywhare. I said no I have to change the wheel and get it sorted.

Now
There were no signs etc. up around the place warning of the conditions.
I had already driven all over town and all roads were perfect.


I wonder would they hold any responsability as to the cost of the new tyre I have to fork out for?

it wont be cheap and it only has 8k kilometers on it so was good for a long time yet.
Car only 1 year old and mint.
Dunlop SP SPORT MAXX 205/45 ZR16 83W with rim protection...


What your views on this one lads?

I could do without this now.

Property owners are responsible to make sure their premises are safe and they haven't, same as your supposed to clear ice off the footpath outside your house. I'd say you could make a claim, but as you've already said that the rest of the roads where OK and this place wasn't I'd assume you where going too fast for conditions so therefore you're partially negligent. To get a car to hop a footpath and go into a flower bed you must have been carrying too much momentum for the conditions.

Just because the main roads in a town are OK, as they'll have been gritted, doesn't mean everywhere else is OK you should always assume a place is frozen and not clear till after you've gone over it.

tbh

Nothing to do with jack frost in my eyes.
Their property.
Up to them not to be neglignet?
Supposing a person was standing there waiting to cross and I wiped them out??

Negligent how? By allowing ice to form on their property? If you'd wiped out a person, you'd be investigated by the guards and if they found it was your fault, you'd be prosecuted.

Come on man, it was an accident. Stop trying to make someone else pay for your bad luck.

daveharnett

vectra wrote: »

There were no signs etc. up around the place warning of the conditions.
I had already driven all over town and all roads were perfect.

You allready knew what the conditions were: cold! Cold weather brings a chance of ice in shady or quiet spots. You shouldn't need a sign to tell you that. Would you expect them to put up a 'wet' sign when it has been raining?

How about an all purpose CAUTION: WEATHER sign at the entrance?

You have my sympathies, it happens very easily, and I know it stings, but you've got to take it on the chin and learn from it. Don't try to blame somebody else.

vectra

Saab Ed wrote: »

Sorry but if I did what you did I dont think Id be here telling everybody about it. Stand up and take responsibilty for your bad driving. Any fool could spot it was icy this morning and you need to take care. Thank God that flower pot wasnt my kids. If you are not sure what is and isnt ice then my best advice is stay off the road. Accidents happen I know but stop trying to blame someone else for your f**k up.

First off,
I am NOT a fool :mad:

And I would ask you to retract that remark now.
When you have as much mileage covered as I have and maybe have you drivers licence with as many boxes ticked as I have then come and make silly remarks like that.....;)

Del2005 wrote: »

Property owners are responsible to make sure their premises are safe and they haven't, same as your supposed to clear ice off the footpath outside your house. I'd say you could make a claim, but as you've already said that the rest of the roads where OK and this place wasn't I'd assume you where going too fast for conditions so therefore you're partially negligent. To get a car to hop a footpath and go into a flower bed you must have been carrying too much momentum for the conditions.

Just because the main roads in a town are OK, as they'll have been gritted, doesn't mean everywhere else is OK you should always assume a place is frozen and not clear till after you've gone over it.

Thank god there is one person on here with a bit of savy.

I would like to make this a bit clearer for everyone.

the kerb I hit would be about the same as on your driveway at home.
That is what I hopped on and it was surrounding a flower bed.
Now do you get a better picture?
Speed had absolutley nothing to do with this.

Robbo

vectra wrote: »

Speed had absolutley nothing to do with this.

Entirely correct. It was momentum followed by the impact that are the real villains of the piece.

delly

Most roads would be ok as they have had enough regular traffic on them. Areas such as a carpark would be high risk due to the limited amount of cars using them early. I don't see how the supermarket could be held responsible for your lack of caution.

vectra wrote: »

I hit the brakes immediately which made no difference

tbh, thats more disturbing than anything else. Its a bit of a basic thing to know when you loose it on ice not to jump on the brakes.

whippet

vectra wrote: »

First off,
I am NOT a fool :mad:

And I would ask you to retract that remark now.
When you have as much mileage covered as I have and maybe have you drivers licence with as many boxes ticked as I have then come and make silly remarks like that.....;)




Thank god there is one person on here with a bit of savy.

I would like to make this a bit clearer for everyone.

the kerb I hit would be about the same as on your driveway at home.
That is what I hopped on and it was surrounding a flower bed.
Now do you get a better picture?
Speed had absolutley nothing to do with this.

I don't think he called you a fool .. he said that any fool would have known about the conditions.

If the kerb was as you describe then you really must have hit it at a fair pelt to make a hole in your tyre. Then again, in your original post you say it was a high kerb? So was it high or low?

You describe in glowing terms your driving experience, however, your descriptions of the events this morning would contradict yourself!

inforfun

It would not suprise me if you have to thank one of the many Muppets that throw buckets of hot water on their windows to de-ice them.
Great way to damage your car and a great way to make footh paths and roads even more unpredictable.
But at leats they dont have a cold hand from using an old fashioned ice scraper.

Saab Ed

vectra wrote: »

First off,
I am NOT a fool :mad:

And I would ask you to retract that remark now.
When you have as much mileage covered as I have and maybe have you drivers licence with as many boxes ticked as I have then come and make silly remarks like that.....;)




Thank god there is one person on here with a bit of savy.

I would like to make this a bit clearer for everyone.

the kerb I hit would be about the same as on your driveway at home.
That is what I hopped on and it was surrounding a flower bed.
Now do you get a better picture?
Speed had absolutley nothing to do with this.

Oh stop crying. You are digging the hole deeper. I suppose you are bigger and stronger than everybody too. Heres a tip. Dont put your cat in the microwave, bet there is no sign saying that on the side of it

Seth Brundle

Del2005 wrote: »

Property owners are responsible to make sure their premises are safe and they haven't, same as your supposed to clear ice off the footpath outside your house. I'd say you could make a claim, but as you've already said that the rest of the roads where OK and this place wasn't I'd assume you where going too fast for conditions so therefore you're partially negligent. To get a car to hop a footpath and go into a flower bed you must have been carrying too much momentum for the conditions.

Just because the main roads in a town are OK, as they'll have been gritted, doesn't mean everywhere else is OK you should always assume a place is frozen and not clear till after you've gone over it.

Property owners are expected to be responsible within reason. They were salting the area so it sounds like they were taking some action anyhow. Shop keepers are not expected to salt an entire car park (salt is only an aid and does not remove the need for caution when its icy!).
Drivers are also meant to drive suitably for the conditions - the OP clearly was not!

Sandraf

From a legal point of view you haven't a hope!

What do you think should have happened ? Perhaps the manager sleeping in the car park overnight just to ensure if it did get icy to start putting up signs??

What about taking some driving lessons on how to control car on slippy surface. Seems you were a bit confused as to what do you.

Go buy your new tyre and worry about more important things!

Alun

It's always somebody else's fault these days, isn't it

peasant

vectra wrote: »

When you have as much mileage covered as I have and maybe have you drivers licence with as many boxes ticked as I have then come and make silly remarks like that

So now you've added how not to drive on ice to your mountain of driving experience.

You lived, now learn

Cookie_Monster

vectra wrote: »

When you have as much mileage covered as I have and maybe have you drivers licence with as many boxes ticked as I have then come and make silly remarks like that.....;)

Boxes ticked or miles driven won't nessicarily make you any better a driver, you have already demonstrated that you were unable to read the road conditions...

vectra wrote: »

Thank god there is one person on here with a bit of savy.

Why, because he is the only one agreeing with you?

vectra

Alun wrote: »

It's always somebody else's fault these days, isn't it

No

victor1

As the maj of the posters have stated, I'd unfortunatley imagine you would be at fault the tip, while you may have also been very careful this morning in the car park, these things sometimes just happen, it may not have been down to carelessness and not reading road conditions, i was driving like miss daisy the last 2mornings, very very carefully and nearly lost car also half a dozen times, I doubt it if the supermarket will entertain that they are liable, but i guess you could ask them and they may as a goodwill gesture pay it, if not looks like u;ll have to suck it up and take cost ureself:(

OldmanMondeo

victor1 wrote: »

they may as a goodwill gesture pay it, (

Not a hope. OP will have to fork out themselves.

vectra

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Boxes ticked or miles driven won't nessicarily make you any better a driver, you have already demonstrated that you were unable to read the road conditions...

I was able to read road conditions.

Unlike you
You read my post wrong.

It did not happen on the road
It happened in a PRIVATE car park

Supposing a family member of yours was walking across this particular car park this morning and slipped and got badly injured..

Would it be their own fault for being so stupid for walking on a slippery surface??

Alun

vectra wrote: »

Supposing a family member of yours was walking across this particular car park this morning and slipped and got badly injured..

Would it be their own fault for being so stupid for walking on a slippery surface??

Yes.

granturismo

inforfun wrote: »

It would not suprise me if you have to thank one of the many Muppets that throw buckets of hot water on their windows to de-ice them.

Yes, I always have a bucket of piping hot water in my car awaiting my return from grocery shopping.

vectra wrote: »

I met the assistant manager on my way out and he was all in a fluster and asked if i needed a drive anywhare. I said no I have to change the wheel and get it sorted.

I wonder would they hold any responsability as to the cost of the new tyre I have to fork out for?

It sounds like the Ass Manager was trying some damage limitation or just trying to help you out. I dont think you have any reasonable claim against them - 2 points (a) duty of care and (b) causation.

Duty of care - I'm sure any solicitor will be delighted to charge you, to decide if the carpark owners are responsible for gritting the surface of the carpark rather than pathways. I dont know.

Causation - the damage happened because of the surface or your driving given the conditions (and warnings on radio)? but my guess is that at least it's 50/50 and highly unlikely to be the fault of the carpark owners.

I think you'll lose money if you go the legal route.

What about claiming off your insurance?

victor1

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Not a hope. OP will have to fork out themselves.

Yep i essentially agree, but if u dont ask u dont get, op could be regular and know manager -

Cookie_Monster

vectra wrote: »

I was able to read road conditions.


It did not happen on the road
It happened in a PRIVATE car park

Road/carpark... same thing effectivly. You don't stop caring/being aware just because it is not a main road.
And what does it being private have to do with anything since you highlighted it. I'm sure council carparks were also icy that morning

Cookie_Monster

Alun wrote: »

Yes.

I second this, of course it would.

OP - how can you possibly think that it wouldn't?

victor1

vectra wrote: »

I was able to read road conditions.

Unlike you
You read my post wrong.

It did not happen on the road
It happened in a PRIVATE car park

Supposing a family member of yours was walking across this particular car park this morning and slipped and got badly injured..

Would it be their own fault for being so stupid for walking on a slippery surface??

hi, while ure obviously pissed about what happened, you can ask them to pay, they prob wont, and it would look like you would not have a leg to stand on, but in saying that why dont u ring citizens advice bureau, but would imagine they would not be liable - it could have worse and been side/front panels of car instead of just a type and some alloy damage, both of which would not be crazy expensive to repair/replace

vectra

victor1 wrote: »

Yep i essentially agree, but if u dont ask u dont get, op could be regular and know manager -

I shop on this place daily... often twice daily and am personal friends with the owner..
This is why I asked here before making it embarresing to both of us.


I merely asked a question
I did not expect the lurkers to jump on here pointing the finger and making me feel like a criminal or something

Doesnt matter

I will fork out myself for 2 new tyres as I would not have one new and one old on the front of my car

victor1

vectra wrote: »

I shop on this place daily... often twice daily and am personal friends with the owner..
This is why I asked here before making it embarresing to both of us.


I merely asked a question
I did not expect the lurkers to jump on here pointing the finger and making me feel like a criminal or something

Doesnt matter

I will fork out myself for 2 new tyres as I would not have one new and one old on the front of my car

dude, if you know him, no harm in chancing it - he might not be 100% sure of "assignment" of liability if there is any if u are lucky he may fork out

daveharnett

Edit: Looks like you hit a raw nerve here OP.
Do the right thing.

Bluefoam

Vectra Sorry, I haven't read the full thread, I got bored of it quite quickly.

I'd just like to say, get real, take some responsibility for yourself & your actions.

The roads authority have had notices on TV, radio & newspapers for the past week about the weather. The weather was icy, you knew this, but you didn't drive with due diligence & you damaged your tyre/wheel.

It is your responsibility to judge the driving conditions. Did you want the shop owner to stand outside all night with a thermostat & a signmaking kit? As far as you suggest, they were out gritting the car park at opening/before?

Stop trying to blame others, take responsibility.

Del2005

kbannon wrote: »

Property owners are expected to be responsible within reason. They were salting the area so it sounds like they were taking some action anyhow. Shop keepers are not expected to salt an entire car park (salt is only an aid and does not remove the need for caution when its icy!).
Drivers are also meant to drive suitably for the conditions - the OP clearly was not!

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Boxes ticked or miles driven won't nessicarily make you any better a driver, you have already demonstrated that you were unable to read the road conditions...



Why, because he is the only one agreeing with you?

Just too make a point I don't agree with the OP, it was their fault for not driving for the conditions.

I was only pointing out that property owners are responsible for the area outside their premises. So the OP may be able to claim, but it was still their fault, same as if someone falls on ice outside your premises they can sue you.

inforfun

granturismo wrote: »

Yes, I always have a bucket of piping hot water in my car awaiting my return from grocery shopping.
QUOTE]

I guess it is out of the question that said car park is also used for residential parking.....??

Whats That?

You have motor insurance for a reason mate,

Its an act of god.

Are you saying that if the post man was walking up your drive way to deliver post and he fell on his head that he could hold you responsible for the fact that your drive was frozen over? i think not.

I work in the insurance industry.

Go get your self a new rubber shoe for your car and pray that your wheel has not been damaged.

delly

Vectra, I can't believe that you are actually friends with the owner and your thinking about approaching him for compensation.

Seriously dude, I think you need a reality check.

Cookie_Monster

Whats That? wrote: »

Its an act of god nature.

FYP :P

victor1

delly wrote: »

Vectra, I can't believe that you are actually friends with the owner and your thinking about approaching him for compensation.

Seriously dude, I think you need a reality check.

i Disagree, why not, if he says no he says no, OP no harm in chancing it

tbh

vectra wrote: »

I shop on this place daily... often twice daily and am personal friends with the owner..
This is why I asked here before making it embarrassing to both of us.

urgh. Sickening, tbh.

victor1 wrote: »

i Disagree, why not, if he says no he says no, OP no harm in chancing it

true, i suppose, as long as you don't care what other people think of you. Words like "chancer" come to mind.

maidhc

vectra wrote: »

Supposing a family member of yours was walking across this particular car park this morning and slipped and got badly injured..

Would it be their own fault for being so stupid for walking on a slippery surface??

...yes.

Anan1

Bluefoam wrote: »

Vectra Sorry, I haven't read the full thread, I got bored of it quite quickly.

I'd just like to say, get real, take some responsibility for yourself & your actions.

Too bored to read the thread, but you somehow find the motivation to type a response. We'll be sure to take that seriously..

delly

victor1 wrote: »

i Disagree, why not, if he says no he says no, OP no harm in chancing it

Dignity would be one reason.