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Another theft
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See, I have two problems with that: (1) CS gas is sortof like pepper spray and tasers - they're less-than-lethal, as opposed to non-lethal. And the demographic most at risk from them (the older, more overweight folks) is pretty much the demographic that'd be most likely to be installing thisGrizzly 45 wrote: »True a house full of CS isnt very pleasent,but it is easier to deal with by opening windows and plenty of water orremove the irritant from your eyes.Than a lifelong trauma of being held at gunpoint and maybe not knowing wether youwill live even after giving the scumbags everything they want.
And (2) if there's someone robbing you with a shotgun, and you spray CS gas at them without warning, they're likely to at least flinch - which wouldn't be something I'd welcome in someone whose finger was on the trigger of the shotgun pointed in my general direction.
Exactly. We've got a responsibility to securely store our firearms and to exercise due care to prevent accidents - we are under absolutely no obligation to somehow resist an attempt at armed robbery. Let the Gardai sort that one out.Our big trouble here folks is REACTION and RESPONSE time.
See, this is the kind of eventuality they had in mind when they got almost two thirds of the force qualified to sign out a sidearm from the station...Even if the alarm goes off in the house/shop.Our Gardai are still unarmed0 -
TheNog wrote:Is there duress codes out there that would still deactivate the alarm and notify the monitoring company?
As Rew has already said, that's exactly what I meant by a duress code: a different code that deactivates the alarm, but also sends the panic signal.Sikamick wrote:Rovi another idea is to have a second code that will open the safe and activate the panic alarm at the same time. When one is being forced to deactivate your alarm simply input your panic security code, safe opens and Garda are on the way.
My issue with these though is, will the unfortunate firearm owner/dealer have the presence of mind to actually use it?
Suppose the alarm code you use every day (perhaps several times a day) is 1234, and the duress code (which you never use) is 4321.
Now, it's 4 in the morning, you're in your pyjamas and possibly even still in bed, all you can see is a blinding torch and the muzzles of a sawn-off double barrel, you can hear your loved ones crying somewhere in the background, and there's a scumbag shouting at you for the alarm code.
Which number are you going to blurt out?
That's why I like my 'genuine' alarm panel/'panic button' alarm panel idea; there's no duress code to remember, the panel itself is the panic signal.
We're getting into "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure" territory here, I think.ancienthunter wrote:I also think tracking devices should be placed in a few items in a dealers shop that way it leads you back to the group and the cache.
It would be a great deterent. There would be no way a group could find it and remove it before they were caught. One would have to design a Fully containerised covert gun safe rf alarm when it went off or a report was triggered by other means the clock would be ticking for them when they could'nt find the tracking device(s) a special force will engage the target at the coordinates transmitted by the minature gps tracker and transmitter encased in bullets or encased in gun stocks. They would have to destroy the equipment to find these transmitters.
Commercially available GPS/GSM trackers are approximately the size of a couple of 50 boxes of .22 ammunition, we're a long way away from miniaturised stuff that would fit into individual cartridges, even 12g ones.
I don't doubt the technology probably already exists, it's just not available to us lowly civilians.
A tracker in the car is an excellent idea though.0 -
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As Rew has already said, that's exactly what I meant by a duress code: a different code that deactivates the alarm, but also sends the panic signal.
My issue with these though is, will the unfortunate firearm owner/dealer have the presence of mind to actually use it?
Suppose the alarm code you use every day (perhaps several times a day) is 1234, and the duress code (which you never use) is 4321.
Now, it's 4 in the morning, you're in your pyjamas and possibly even still in bed, all you can see is a blinding torch and the muzzles of a sawn-off double barrel, you can hear your loved ones crying somewhere in the background, and there's a scumbag shouting at you for the alarm code.
Which number are you going to blurt out?
That's why I like my 'genuine' alarm panel/'panic button' alarm panel idea; there's no duress code to remember, the panel itself is the panic signal.
We're getting into "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure" territory here, I think.
Commercially available GPS/GSM trackers are approximately the size of a couple of 50 boxes of .22 ammunition, we're a long way away from miniaturised stuff that would fit into individual cartridges, even 12g ones.
I don't doubt the technology probably already exists, it's just not available to us lowly civilians.
A tracker in the car is an excellent idea though.
Here is a simple one for you: Personal experience, I was in a gun shop in Derry NI (of course) about 5 years ago, I got chatting to the owner, he was showing me some of the smaller stock and the conversation went on to 17:05, a knock on the door, 2 x PSNI squads with 10 officers, wanting to know why the alarm was not on at 17:00, no snags when they determined I was not robbing the shop.
Why in Gods name was there not a call to the Gardai when the chap deactivated his alarm at 01:00 in the morning? Also the alarm remained off!!!!!!!!!!! Doo,,,,,,,,,0 -
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See, I have two problems with that: (1) CS gas is sortof like pepper spray and tasers - they're less-than-lethal, as opposed to non-lethal. And the demographic most at risk from them (the older, more overweight folks) is pretty much the demographic that'd be most likely to be installing this
There is no such thing as Non leathl items out there.As many LEO have found out.The only way I can see you being killed by CS is being locked in an airtight room and the air pumped out and being replaced by CS gas.
This thing doesnt squirt CS,it virtually detonates a CS grenade.Picture a medium sizes aerosol can going full tilt until it is empty.As I said this isnt a device to use when Gussie Scumbag is standing right behind you with his shotgun.[Best thing to there is address him as Sir and take him anywhere he wants to go].It is more designed if Gussie and Co are visiting in your absence and this is to encourage them to leave the building by the most expedient and quickest route.
Now,this is the kicker.From what I have gleaned in info on this you qualify with the Gardai on the firearms course.You get the firearms qualification rating[henceforth we will call this the Ticket].Now,there are only so many actual Tickets out there with a quota per district.So,say if you are a qualified Garda based in a sub district and you have a Ticket and a qualification,you have to surrender the actual Ticket to another member in the district who might need to be called to an armed situation.You now are unqualified to use a firearm and must redo the Garda firearms course ..:eek:.See, this is the kind of eventuality they had in mind when they got almost two thirds of the force qualified to sign out a sidearm from the station...
So tough if all the lads and lasses who are uniform are off that night that you or the dealership is hit.
Plus I doubt it is as easy as the station Desk Sgt or whoever is in charge on a day to day basis,hitting the radio and calling in anyone with the Ticket to get down to the armoury to be issued with a side arm,and pile off to Murphy's gunstore as there is a raid in progress. Proably a Super or higher would have to authorise uniform carrying sidearms,and would want a seriously good reason to do so methinks.
Anyways,folks,anyone intrested in the GPS trackers,do please PM me,and I can advise further."If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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That's probably a problem you have to solve either before or after it happens and not by preventing the specific act. Either you get a tip-off and have a welcoming party at the shop or you catch the criminals in the follow-up investigation.
Intelligence led policing is a key part to successful operations but in some cases you are relying on someone in the know giving a Garda that information. So while intelligence is good to solve or prevent some cases of thefts, it will certainly not be available for the majority of cases.
As for after event investigation or slow time investigation, unfotunately criminals are very good at not leaving none ir very little clues behind them They are like most people, they are good at their job. They can be very organised and excellent planners to get backround information on key people, surveillance techniques, testing Garda response time etc. In my book they are not small fry, they are anything but.Both of those solutions would probably be longer-term efforts requiring Garda time that is probably going to get scarcer.
Time has already gotten scarcer
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