Another theft

Grizzly 45

[

quote=TheNog;58722798]I have seen this happen with minor incidents. Any major incidents though would result in all cars in the vicinty, whether inside or outside of the district, responding to the call.

One would hope so....

The RSUs will be not just tasked within cities. True members trained so far are based in Limerick and I think Dublin too but some will also be based down the country.

Now,when you mean "down the country" [a Dub expression if there ever was one:pac:] do you mean major or smaller towns outside the Dublin area?
Cos if you say down the country in towns outside Dublin,us culchies mean folks who come from the back end of beyond.:).Fair dues if we can station RSU's in Rathnafeck,and Ballygropple.However methinks it will be places like Limerick,Cork,Galway etc,with a tasked area outside these towns and cities.So again you are into the problem of how long will it take for first response to your alarm signal.Even with the lads hitting the noise and lights to get to where you are?Response time is THE problem and unless your shop is right in a town centre of which many are not anymore finding some gun dealers can be a problem as well,even moreso if you have to be out there in a given time.

Rew

TheNog wrote: »

The RSUs will be not just tasked within cities. True members trained so far are based in Limerick and I think Dublin too but some will also be based down the country.

Limerick and Cork. Last I heard there was no RSU for Dublin as the ERU have a perm Dublin presence.

Vegeta

Rovi wrote: »

That, combined with discreet panic buttons and duress codes on the alarm panel should provide instant notification of the cavalry even under a hostage situation, provided of course, the unfortunate individual has their wits about them to activate these things.

Just want to point out a major flaw with duress codes and secretly activating alarms.

As Bob rightly points out, if the Gardai turn up you may be facing a situation of armed Gardai outside, armed burglars inside.

Even worse if they bring your family to a remote location. Gardai turn up at your home. Arrest the guys at your house, the guys with your family after waiting for a set period of time assume something has gone wrong and then what do they do with your family members? :(

I think tracking is a very good idea.

Rovi

RTE One's Crimecall programme will be covering the Carrick-on-Suir dealership robbery at 10.15pm next Tuesday, 27th January.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/crimecall/


This should be well worth all our while watching, even if only to apply the modus operandi of the criminals to our own security setups to see what we might change or improve.


edited to add:
Programme time is 10.15pm, not 10.30pm as first posted.

Grizzly 45

[

quote=Sparks;58723530]Yes, but you're not comparing like with like. Our police compared to German or French police don't come off well and our national attitude towards rules is the opposite of what you find in most places on the continent.

Well,in all fairness to them Sparks they are doing the best with what they have.Still and all it doesnt answer the question why we build our gunshops like fortresses,and the continent as normal shops.They have as much crime if not more than we do here.

Sounds great - but you can count on the fingers of one hand how many garda stations even have email, let alone being able to access a system like that. Our Gardai are woefully under-funded and we're talking about freezing or cutting their pay and budget, don't forget.

[/QUOTE]
Well the idea is that as 3G technology gets more common place the Gardai will be able to access it themselves of their own personal 3G mobile phone!All you need is the phone number of the 3G surveilance device to activate it and look and listen as to what is going on.Obviously this is not to be used as a "big brother" snoop device when nothing is happening,but as a emergency device.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well,in all fairness to them Sparks they are doing the best with what they have.

Oh, I'm not blaming them Grizzly, despite the few bad apples, the Gardai are a pretty decent barrel. Thing is, they don't set the budgets...

Still and all it doesnt answer the question why we build our gunshops like fortresses,and the continent as normal shops.They have as much crime if not more than we do here.

It kindof does really - the odds of being arrested and charged and imprisoned are far higher on the continent. Have you seen the conviction rates over here? They're a bad joke :mad:

Well the idea is that as 3G technology gets more common place the Gardai will be able to access it themselves of their own personal 3G mobile phone!

So we'll be relying on the gardai's personal mobile phone? For feck's sake. How many of them have a 3G-capable videophone in their pocket, I wonder?

Obviously this is not to be used as a "big brother" snoop device when nothing is happening,but as a emergency device.

Why is that obvious? What are the safeguards? Are we going to monitor the Gardai's personal phones now, and even if we do, how do you spot in the logs the difference between checking up legitimately on someone and being a voyeur?

Grizzly 45

As Bob rightly points out, if the Gardai turn up you may be facing a situation of armed Gardai outside, armed burglars inside.

Get your and yours asses on the floor and stay there until the shooting,if any stops.:eek:

Even worse if they bring your family to a remote location. Gardai turn up at your home. Arrest the guys at your house, the guys with your family after waiting for a set period of time assume something has gone wrong and then what do they do with your family members? :(

Thats where some prudent prior and proper planning can prevent piss poor performance on everyone's part.How many of us have actually played out in our minds or family a "what if" scenario that this might happen.Do we eyeball our house each time we return to it for tampering?Do we have a alert word or sentence between family,spouse,partner that there is trouble at home or they are in trouble?All little things that can make big differences in crunch time.Personally,I would rather be a hostage in a contained and locked down situation than a hostage being ferried about the country.At least you know you are not going anywhere soon.:rolleyes:

Very tounge in cheek
Of course if you can be callous enough and brutal ,you can call the kidnappers bluff ala a Russian millionare. Some gang snatched his son in Moscow and demanded a 3million dollar ransom.[this fellah is worth about 500million in loose change]The millionare simply told them to go FUK themselves.Disconnected his phone and went on a weeks holiday!:eek::eek::eek:.[Turned out he thought it was his sons,who is a bit of awaster, mates taking the piss..]
How do you deal with that as a kidnapper???."Yeah,do me a favour ,whack the whole lot of them.Those little bollixes are costing a mint and are driving me nuts,as is that oul wagon is ugly and a right pain,always interfering with my plans to run off with me mistress.I've them all insured anyway,so i'll cut yez in in the insurance.":eek:

the_syco

Hello all. Don't own a gun, but here are my views:

Someone said that they must not have access to drug gangs, as they rob the gun dealers. Not so. Guns cost money. Steal them, they cost you nothing. They are probably only doing this now for one of three reasons

1. they got access to a list
2. the "usual" route of getting in guns may have dried up
3. they need a large supply of guns for an upcoming surge

If the 1st, it could be linked to number 3; they know what they need, and know where to get them. If the 2nd, well done to the boys in blue, but the criminals are just showing that they're resourcefull.

At the moment, they seem to be copying the "tiger raids" style: effective, and low risk to the thieves.

Grizzly 45

So we'll be relying on the gardai's personal mobile phone? For feck's sake. How many of them have a 3G-capable videophone in their pocket, I wonder?

No need to be flippant Sparks!They are becoming more and more pouplar and as I said it is only a matter of time before everyone has one.

Why is that obvious? What are the safeguards? Are we going to monitor the Gardai's personal phones now, and even if we do, how do you spot in the logs the difference between checking up legitimately on someone and being a voyeur?

[/QUOTE]
None really these days.What with the surveillance bill being pushed thru with Mr Aherne,to combat criminals and whatnot.Plus to be flippant here meself "if you have done nothing wrong,you have nothing to fear"logic springs to mind. Also,we dont bitch and moan about CCTV cameras invading every aspect of our lives these days do we??So is there much of a difference anymore??Great if he wants to look at a closed gunroom door for the day in busisness hours.Different story at 3AM with an alarm call and they might have to go in there.

Trojan911

Rovi wrote: »

As Rew has already said, that's exactly what I meant by a duress code: a different code that deactivates the alarm, but also sends the panic signal.

I would have thought a duress code would be the norm in cases like this & CCTV, be it overt or covert.

About three-four years ago I looked into getting an RFD licence to sell ammunition. I went through all the channels and had the CPO booked to call but pulled out due to costs.

The proposals I put forward to the CPO included, on top of his recommendations, was covert CCTV inside & outside my house and have a duress code set up.

Now, I'm not sure what the policy is here, but in London if a duress code/panic alarm is activated & the premises is a vulnerable one i.e. RFD, bank, vulnerable person etc a marker flashes up on the CAD & instructs a Trojan unit (Armed Response Vehicle) to be deployed giving the reason for Trojan deployment.

I would have thought similar set ups would be in place here i.e. Duress code + RFD city/town/remote area = Armed response.


The issues pointed out about a hostage situation are a possibility & unfortunately come with the package. It is something one would have to consider when starting such a business.

Draw up contingency plans for such an eventuality with the local Garda station if the above is not in place.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

No need to be flippant Sparks!They are becoming more and more pouplar and as I said it is only a matter of time before everyone has one.

See, this is what I was talking about. This is an important emergency tool for our police force we're talking about here, and we're saying "well, let's let them use their own phones". FFS. If we're to do this, the equipment used should be procured, maintained and tracked by the state. We don't demand that they use their personal cars for garda patrols, and this is exactly the same thing.

None really these days.What with the surveillance bill being pushed thru with Mr Aherne,to combat criminals and whatnot.Plus to be flippant here meself "if you have done nothing wrong,you have nothing to fear"logic springs to mind.

That's not flippant - it's just wrong. Go over to Archery and look up the debate over the children's protection stuff for a direct example of why privacy isn't a luxury.

Also,we dont bitch and moan about CCTV cameras invading every aspect of our lives these days do we?

Actually, it bothers quite a lot of us rather significantly. And I don't see you posting your name and home address in here either, so I'm assuming you're in agreement with me on the idea of privacy being a good thing, at least subconciously...

So is there much of a difference anymore?

YES. And do these systems record, by the way? Or are we back to relying on a garda's word for a prosecution case?

Grizzly 45

But Gardai CAN use their personal vechicles if need be on certain cases and with piror approval.Sure,it is a great thing IF the state will provide equipment.But the trouble is;it is usually in Dublin,in for repair,somone has spilt coffee over it,used it as a /tyre lever/door stopper or jack handle.This idea is f0or a personal inititave as an extra bit of security form the private citizen.I am not naive to expect the State to supply anything that is electronic that [a] works doesnt cost you and me a fortune in tax[c] will fulfil the job to the letter[d] doesnt require a ton pf paperwork to aquire.Wouldnt it be better to just check the station records,and ask for that cams number and anyone can look it up then on their PDA,or 3G device??rather than have it slaved to a device that sure as God wont be available or working when it is needed?? After all,considering the deplorable state of the radio system the Gardai are using their mobiles to talk to each other at the moment.So how good do you honestly think a system "govt purchased" would be?


,

and this is exactly the same thing.That's not flippant - it's just wrong. Go over to Archery and look up the debate over the children's protection stuff for a direct example of why privacy isn't a luxury.

Of course it is VERY wrong.But you would be amazed how many otherwise intelligent people think this is a way to live in a society.Therefore would you be surprised that they would foist this on gunowners/dealers with that attitude??

Actually, it bothers quite a lot of us rather significantly. And I don't see you posting your name and home address in here either, so I'm assuming you're in agreement with me on the idea of privacy being a good thing, at least subconciously..

Well, I am looking forward with great expetations to the 1st Irish Smash theCCTV athon,if we are so concerned with the proliferation of CCTV cams in our work and lesuire ,and daily lives if we are so upset about these in Irish society.Think I'll bewaiting awhile.And I do consider privacy a great matter,just that I am realistic enough to know that no one will be arsed to complain,as they are bought off with the nanny state,crime prevention excuse.
Like gun control,CCTV has not reduced crime significantly anywhere,especially in the UK.Where there are now more CCTV than in communist China or Russia!
.As for my home address,phone,etc well Sparks,I think you know mine as I do yours,and does anyone who has an intrest in us both.Privacy for us here on boards went out awhile ago methinks.

.YES. And do these systems record, by the way? Or are we back to relying on a garda's word for a prosecution case?

[/QUOTE]
First gen systems NO.New Gen system should be out mid 09/10.Yes.
Trouble is the engine of the system has to be reworked to record live and store in a big enough memory chip /SD card that doesnt compromise it's covert size..BUT dont expect very crystal clear pics.It is coming thru a fisheye lens that is thumb tack head size.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But Gardai CAN use their personal vechicles if need be on certain cases and with piror approval.Sure,it is a great thing IF the state will provide equipment.

That's my point Grizzly - that if is the reason we don't have things here as well off as our counterparts on the continent.

Well, I am looking forward with great expetations to the 1st Irish Smash theCCTV athon

I've seen protests about it - it's just that protests don't work because we've such a fecked-up attitude in this country when it comes to social debate. It's not seen as being necessary, it's seen as being daft at best, subversive at worse.

As for my home address,phone,etc well Sparks,I think you know mine as I do yours

Nope. Have a good guess at your name from someone else, but not your address, and I don't normally go looking for such things in here. I may not be able to avail of it - and maybe that's a part of why I value it - but I do like the anonymity we have in here, limited as it may be.

ancienthunter

Is this dealers name and address online. I would like to point out the obvious but I hope people have looked into ip logs of the server where the contact details were held. Usually these days something or other is tracable on the net. Maybe there could be some link here on boards.ie

Sparks

We did look but didn't find a link ah; however, we have several shooting magazines on our newsstands which carry addresses of dealers, so looking to boards like it was the only source of such information is downright silly.

IRLConor

I've just trimmed out 10 posts which were all well off-topic.

• If you want to start verbally sniping at each other, take it to PM please, the rest of us don't need or want to see that crap.
• If you want to comment on the moderation, take it to Help Desk if you want an SMod/Admin to review it or take it to Feedback if you want the burning torch and pitchfork crowd to review it.

Trojan911

My question in relation to RFD thefts/aggburglaries etc, does anyone know if there is a set up so when an alarm, be it a normal alarm, panic or duress code, is activated does a marker flash up on the despatchers screen at Garda Divisional HQ indicating this is a vulnerable premises and does it have a contingency plan for deployment, in place, for such events?

ancienthunter

Yes you are quite right there sparks I would be a simpleton if I implied that

Our man in Havana

Tipperary gun theft will be on crime call on Tuesday on RTE1.

DOCUMENTARY: Crimecall
On: RTÉ 1 (101)
Date: Tuesday 27th January 2009 (starting in 1 day)
Time: 22:15 to 23:15 (1 hour long)

CrimeCall this month features reconstructions of a number of high profile recent crimes, including a savage armed assault on a man and his family in Carrick-on-Suir, where a large number of weapons were stolen. Plus an eye-opening feature on counterfeiting in Ireland, revealing how the trade in fakes goes well beyond branded clothing and DVD's, with criminals now using the internet to target Irish shoppers. Presented by Con Murphy and Anne Cassin.
(Subtitles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available

Copyright (c) GipsyMedia Limited.

jwshooter

another armed robbery in galway the weekend ,at least one gun was used.

the good news there were caught in the act ,well done to the brave guards in question .

now we will see what will be done to these people .
its a pity crimes like this are not put to a public poll ,as i would line em up .

It wasn't me!

To be honest I'd settle for them being walloped with everything the judiciary can throw at them. You'd be amazed how fast and hard it can mount up.