Greens - Are we indulging dull, spineless pedants?

Raiser

The Green Party - where could you start? These people whom you'll hardly recognise since they became mainstream Politicians have let their ounce of power propel them into a disgusting, grovelling, sycophantic spectacle in only a few short months.

So what tireless work have they done in their miserable, deplorable 10 minutes of fame to be so deserving of our disrespect?

- Maybe with their refusal to condemn their own members on revelations that they held shares of some of the major Oil Companies; there nothing "Greener" than an oil-slick right?

- Or supporting FF's abysmal, misguided, schoolboy's efforts regarding Budget Day attacks on the elderly, the disabled, the infirm as well as the Irish taxpayer as a whole.

- Or Trevor Sargent as their [then] Leader authoritatively stating that they could never go into Government with Fianna Fail - but instead stepping down and accepting a [?] €60K job as yet another aimless, clueless, spineless Junior Minister and championing, praising and supporting FF's race to the bottom

- Spouting inane, buzz-word riddled, nonsense to anyone who will listen about eco-friendly Christmas trees and the carbon footprint of your kids Hamster.

- Abandoning EVERY single pre-election promise they ever made and instead standing shoulder to shoulder with Fianna Fails bumbling, panic-stricken politics.

- Today we had Mary White of the Chameleon Party interviewed on National Radio and defending the cut in Bus Services in a Country that has failed to offer viable alternative to private transport - So is there ANYTHING they won't try to defend in the face of facts, logic and public revulsion?

- Threatening the thinking man with ill-conceived and cynically unfair mugging taxes; try the sickening car park tax which they conveniently made themselves exempt from 'cause they're Green enough already :mad:

- The Green Party is now presiding over the E-Voting Machine scandal - Not their own st00pid creation [though it would be typical] but at €60,000,000 wouldn't they want to do something, sometime, someday??? Stop talking nonsense and act please - we can't afford this [????]

Please continue this list in my absence if I've missed anything; I'm afraid that my stomach is turning too much to continue......

P.S. Chris O'Leary - congratulations on recognising that you had a problem and taking steps to rectify the situation. I wish you well in your rehabilitation and I remain certain that you will return someday into the arms of decent Society.

Victor

I'm wondering why some much vitriol is directed at the greens over the last 18 months. Its not that they suddenly became bad people or started eating babies or started taking large bribes or started any wars. Is it merely blind "attack the government at all costs" or is it jealousy that the poster's own party didn't get into government. For everyone that says "I'm never going to vote for party X again", you really have to wonder if they voted for them in the first place.

Raiser wrote: »

- Or Trevor Sargent as their [then] Leader authoritatively stating that they could never go into Government with Fianna Fail

Not quite, he said he would never lead the Greens into government with FF and while I think he can be accused of side-stepping, he didn't lead the Greens into government with FF, he resigned as party leader.

- Today we had Mary White of the Chameleon Party http://www.greenparty.ie/people/mary_white defending the cut in Bus Services in a Country that has failed to offer viable alternative to private transport

Sorry, I can't see anything there about buses.

Raiser

Victor wrote: »

I'm wondering why some much vitriol is directed at the greens over the last 18 months. Its not that they suddenly became bad people or started eating babies or started taking large bribes or started any wars. Is it merely blind "attack the government at all costs" or is it jealousy that the poster's own party didn't get into government. For everyone that says "I'm never going to vote for party X again", you really have to wonder if they voted for them in the first place.

Not quite, he said he would never lead the Greens into government with FF and while I think he can be accused of side-stepping, he didn't lead the Greens into government with FF, he resigned as party leader.
Sorry, I can't see anything there about buses.

It IS because they suddenly became bad people!!!!! Or to rephrase it slightly - they used to be either dumb champions or a silly sub-cause or else cynics exploiting a new Political angle..... All harmless really...... But when they got into power they became a pack of dangerous idiots jointly at the helm of a ship of Fools.

They glossed over the Trevor Sargant spineless, morally vacuous flip-flop by saying they needed to stomach FF's sickening meals in order to sit at a corrupt table from which they would have a platform to effect change. And Victor as for your above clarification of this wonderful milestone in Irish Political history, he couldn't lead the Green Party in - but he could trot in there on their heels in his tofu-suit and hand-stitched bark shoes while holding his wallet out in readyness for his green € winfall? PLEASE !

- But what have they actually done from their shameful platform and was it worth them selling every last ounce of their credibility? These people are laughable in local community centres where they conscientiously only half-boil the kettle for cups of spinach tea before debating the pro and cons attached to running our Power Stations on fuels collected by the Native Irish Squirrel from the woodlands and replacing all our Bus Services with a Conga-line..... But its not so funny when they are actually given some real power to misuse, abuse and randomly fail with.

* I've edited the Mary White comment above as it was confusing on my part - apologies......

Victor

Raiser wrote: »

* I've edited the Mary White comment above as it was confusing on my part - apologies......

Flip-flopper! :pac:

OhNoYouDidn't

Victor wrote: »

I'm wondering why some much vitriol is directed at the greens over the last 18 months. Its not that they suddenly became bad people or started eating babies or started taking large bribes or started any wars. Is it merely blind "attack the government at all costs" or is it jealousy that the poster's own party didn't get into government. For everyone that says "I'm never going to vote for party X again", you really have to wonder if they voted for them in the first place.

Not quite, he said he would never lead the Greens into government with FF and while I think he can be accused of side-stepping, he didn't lead the Greens into government with FF, he resigned as party leader.
Sorry, I can't see anything there about buses.

I think its simply that they went in full of good intentions and promptly had circles run around them by FF.

US troops still pouring through Shannon, that incinerator is being built and now doubling the national debt to save FF's bank. The list goes on.

As someone who voted green last time, I did not do so for them to enter government with FF. They have failed spectacularly so far.

Quint

OP listens to Liveline!:D
Ehhh, my friend told me what they were talking about today

edanto

Raiser wrote: »

But when they got into power they became a pack of dangerous idiots jointly at the helm of a ship of Fools.

I think that's telling! You're pouring all kinds of vitriol in their direction, but they're not "jointly at the helm". Not even close. For them to be jointly at the helm. they'd have to have about 40 seats. Clearly, they don't, they only have 14% of that.

If the government was a 50:50 Green coalition, do you think they would have been able to keep more of their pre-election promises?

What if it was 100% Green? But how are they supposed to learn how government works if they never agree to go in as a junior partner?

You have quite a good way with words, almost tabloidy, and phrases like half boiling the kettle are really entertaining to read. But I think you're overestimating their ability to influence government policy!

Why don't you do a bit of research? Hell, even ask them what they've achieved.

The_Minister

Most of your points are grossly unfair.

Raiser wrote: »

- Maybe with their refusal to condemn their own members on revelations that they held shares of some of the major Oil Companies; there nothing "Greener" than an oil-slick right?

This was before they were in government, and while it is riotously funny (I love slagging Greens about it), he inherited the shares, and sold them when it came to light.

Raiser wrote: »

- Or supporting FF's abysmal, misguided, schoolboy's efforts regarding Budget Day attacks on the elderly, the disabled, the infirm as well as the Irish taxpayer as a whole.

Yes, because of course, as soon as things go bad in the Finance Department, and the government can no longer chuck money around, the correct thing to do is run out of government.

Raiser wrote: »

- Or Trevor Sargent as their [then] Leader authoritatively stating that they could never go into Government with Fianna Fail - but instead stepping down and accepting a [?] €60K job as yet another aimless, clueless, spineless Junior Minister and championing, praising and supporting FF's race to the bottom

He was very clear before the election that he would not lead the Greens into power with Fianna Fail, but that another Green might.

Raiser wrote: »

- Spouting inane, buzz-word riddled, nonsense to anyone who will listen about eco-friendly Christmas trees and the carbon footprint of your kids Hamster.

Cite?

Raiser wrote: »

- Abandoning EVERY single pre-election promise they ever made and instead standing shoulder to shoulder with Fianna Fails bumbling, panic-stricken politics.

They were actually making some progress (not as much as they claim) before the crash, but there just isn't the money now for fancy new initiatives.
Although, there will now be no more rendition flights through Shannon:D

Raiser wrote: »

- Today we had Mary White of the Chameleon Party interviewed on National Radio and defending the cut in Bus Services in a Country that has failed to offer viable alternative to private transport - So is there ANYTHING they won't try to defend in the face of facts, logic and public revulsion?

Again, they can't pull millions of euro out of their ass.
It's like the old saying "I didn't make the world, I just live in it" or "Take what you want and pay for it" (those two are real wisdom *pats fist to chest*).
They may want to have buses running every two minutes, but they are in government not opposition, so they have to be realistic.

Raiser wrote: »

- Threatening the thinking man with ill-conceived and cynically unfair mugging taxes; try the sickening car park tax which they conveniently made themselves exempt from 'cause they're Green enough already :mad:

I'm not aware of any taxes that specifically target intellectuals, but I think you are referring to 'Green' taxes, which target unenvironmental activities - a move that tbh, if you truly are a thinking man, you would have expected from the Green party.
Ministerial cars don't pay it, because it would just be paid for by the tax payer.

Raiser wrote: »

- The Green Party is now presiding over the E-Voting Machine scandal - Not their own st00pid creation [though it would be typical] but at €60,000,000 wouldn't they want to do something, sometime, someday??? Stop talking nonsense and act please - we can't afford this [????]

As you say, not the Greens fault, and even if they may have been a good idea, they should be destroyed.

The_Minister

edanto wrote: »

You're pouring all kinds of vitriol in their direction, but they're not "jointly at the helm". .

The helm is where you steer from. His point is that they are joint captains.

edanto

The_Minister wrote: »

The helm is where you steer from. His point is that they are joint captains.

It's the joint captaincy idea that I was disagreeing with, but I think that point is made.

In a nutshell, if they're only 10-20% of the government, they could only hope to achieve 10-20% of their manifesto.... and that would be above average!!

dresden8

Victor wrote: »

Not quite, he said he would never lead the Greens into government with FF and while I think he can be accused of side-stepping, he didn't lead the Greens into government with FF, he resigned as party leader.

Just a touch disingenuous.

He led them into negotiations with FF.

He led them through the negotiations with FF.

He led them while the party accepted the deal with FF.

He even proposed Bertie as Taoiseach in the Dail.

He led them into the arms of FF, and then he stepped aside.

Man of principles indeed.

johnnyskeleton

Victor wrote: »

I'm wondering why some much vitriol is directed at the greens over the last 18 months. Its not that they suddenly became bad people or started eating babies or started taking large bribes or started any wars. Is it merely blind "attack the government at all costs" or is it jealousy that the poster's own party didn't get into government. For everyone that says "I'm never going to vote for party X again", you really have to wonder if they voted for them in the first place.

I voted green the last few times around. I won't next time. I won't say I never will again because, on mature reflection, it might be a different green party in 5/10 years time. But so long as they are merely a prop to legitimise FF I won't support them.

Now is the perfect time for them to pull out of government. It is my view that a new government will be able to renege on the guarantee without destroying confidence, but the reality is that FF/Greens are going to stay in power until the bitter end (i.e. when the IMF are called in).

old boy

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I voted green the last few times around. I won't next time. I won't say I never will again because, on mature reflection, it might be a different green party in 5/10 years time. But so long as they are merely a prop to legitimise FF I won't support them.

Now is the perfect time for them to pull out of government. It is my view that a new government will be able to renege on the guarantee without destroying confidence, but the reality is that FF/Greens are going to stay in power until the bitter end (i.e. when the IMF are called in).

+ 1why can they not just tell their partners unless there is change they will pull out of gov, could it just be they are not there long enough to get there ministerial pensions

humberklog

Having never voted green (no choice either as they didn't run candidate in constituencey...I think) I was only thinking the other day how well they were doing. Sticking with a government this bad takes balls. I really thought they would have wimped out at this stage but underestimated how mature they have become in the real politik. If they threw the suder out now they could hardly be in a positon to be trusted to tow the line in other future coalitions regardless of hue. Jump out now (or pull it down) would only lead to them being tarnished as volatile cranks by all parties. Disloyalty is seldom rewarded even by those that would gain from such a move.
Nobody likes a snitch.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

id have more respect for them if they pull the plug now , than trying to stick it out spinelessly .

but they are only sticking it to get pensions in any case.


if they dont pull the plug - they will be a dead party come the next election
same as the PD'S .


useless bunch of c*nts.

Raiser

Its a cold January morning and the wind feels colder and sharper in the Dole queue than it does anywhere else. The people that constitute this grim line are greater in number than last week and the line itself is the only thing growing in the current bleak, miserable environment.

The kids need food, the bank needs its repayments, the ESB and Bord Gais need YET another 25% increase to keep their employees in "jobs" and their Management in golf club green fees. Our Political Ingrates needs their VAT, PAYE, VRT, PRSI, DIRT, Motor Tax, Inheritance Tax, and fcuking Pyjamas Tax.

BUT WAIT!

A little green man appears who promises a return of real hope to people who have had hope wrenched cruelly from their grip. Standing there, 5 foot 4.25 inches of idealism in a Peruvian Yak hat with hemp ear-flaps he carries a slight presence and vapid authority that could only have come from 6 years of third level education on Daddy's current account.

Mr. Green wrote:

Ya know when I was in the progressive Eco-studies Society in UCD we used to think that the Dole was like, Gremlins and fackin' Unicorns man. To think that I had to join the Green Porty to actually witness your social decline is so ironic, I mean, its just so fackin' weird to see you dudes all here loike.

Anyway goys don't panic - we've like got a load of meetings scheduled this week already and we know that we can reclaim 2.68% of household detritus and ecologically turn it into sustainable, self-replenishing, eco-housing that can also be used as non-gmo organic foodstuffs. Most of this is likely to be a reality before the spring equinox in 2026......SO YEAH DUDES! ALLRIGHT!!!......so, hang tough you guys ok?

If times are tight you should really get the builders in to rebuild your house and swimming pool. It might be a tiny bit more expensive now but it will pay for itself in the long term man. Anyhow maybe your Uncle will like leave you half a mill in Texaco shares or something???

Sadly this Green Knight in shining corduroy and palm-leaf shoes was promptly beaten to death by his audience. Fianna Fail made a sad face momentarily and then sent a Junior Minister to the funeral 'cause they couldn't find anything else for them to do.

Disssgruntled

I voted Green and am in shock every time I see them back FF on seemingly every issue that is the utter opposite of their election campaign policies and promises.

- Ireland could afford to just about tolerate the Green Party's nonsense and posturing a year ago but in the current climate when things are tough they are obviously just a pack of smug hypocrites with a nonsense agenda that helps nobody but themselves......

rcecil

Sinn Fein:

Stopped a War, negotiated British withdrawal
Opposes War in the Mideast (Or anywhere else
Right on Pollution
Right on Banks
Right on Corruption
Not in politics for the money
Right on Lisbon

Bright, new and young leadership ie Mary Lou McDonald, Pearse Doherty, David Cullinane, Toiresa Ferris

www.sinnfein.ie

Vadrefjorde

Unfortunately for Sinn Fein the majority of the electorate still have this vision of voting for guys in flak jackets running up and down the hills of Crossmaglen..
Quite wrongly i might add.
The "greens" were the great white hope for a lot of people in that they were new, idealistic and people stupidly voted for them.....
The PD's were the epitomy of Country Tom's cronyism... Hell we still have that hippo grinding the HSE into the ground in the belief her private health service pals will cash in.. Mary should look out the window some time at the dole queue growing daily.
Getting back to the greens their sell-out was the greatest shock to the new followers because unlike the PD's who stood for capital gain at whatever cost and fcuk anything in our way, the greens peddled the idealistic approach and were seen by most i guess as those most likely to make a change. But, hey presto they have magically changed into another flavour of Fianna Fail.
Fianna Gael, yet another shower of tossers only slightly worse than our existing buffoons, what a great inspiration to the electorate to vote for them and vote for "change" NOT....
So we have a country with no credible opposition. No one party actually coming out with a realistic approach, not one party with a credible solution, not one party with a mandate for change.
If there was ever an opportunity for an opposition party to stake claim in the future of Irish politics then there is no better climate than the one we are currently in.. And we have ? No-one..
No one taking our crony developer loving government to task. The green's political history is over, thats plain as day. The shennanigans of MAry Harney and Tom Parlon have had their day too. The langers we are hoping to get us out of this mess are all sitting on the fence waiting for something good to happen, and our opposition is non-existant. FFS if sinn fein or Labour actually want to be in government or be accepted as a credible alternative to this shower of tools then why don't they come out and make a clear stance on their policies, not token appearances on Q&A etc.. The opposition party needs to have a nationalistic approach to policy and to Europe, those will be the core issues that will mobilise the electorate, not this tripe thats currently going on.....
I've had enough anyway i give up on this f**king country and have decided to emigrate.... :mad::mad::mad:

mountainyman

I don't know why they defend FF and the governement. They should admit that FF are crap and corrupt but say that the greens have their own agenda.

They should ALWAYS be looking to pull the plug to maximise political advantage for the Greens.

If called on it they should say that Bertie topped the Poll despite being a crook etc. etc.

Oppose from the inside.

Raiser

rcecil wrote: »

Sinn Fein:

Stopped a War, negotiated British withdrawal
Opposes War in the Mideast (Or anywhere else
Right on Pollution
Right on Banks
Right on Corruption
Not in politics for the money
Right on Lisbon

Bright, new and young leadership ie Mary Lou McDonald, Pearse Doherty, David Cullinane, Toiresa Ferris

www.sinnfein.ie

- That last one, is she the "upskirt girl" from the Late Late Show?

But seriously, I cannot understand how any individual, group or Political Party could ever possibly hope to advance their cause or even preserve and maintain respect, dignity and social standing by scampering excitedly after the likes of FF and publicly supporting, defending and endorsing their constant, shameful, mind-numbingly stupid fúck ups......

- I'm looking forward to seeing them publicly humiliated in June !!!

turgon

Good post by the OP, that in reasonably rational terms outlines the faults of the Greens.

Of course the central opposing argument is that with only 5 TDs they cant be that influential. Well show me where they have made reasonable change, I just cant see it. The bus cul is particularly hypocritical, am I right in saying that of all Dail parties they prioritize public transport the most?

Anyway OP, I wouldnt worry too much. Come next election the Greens will fade to brown and decompose. Its nothing complicated, simply natural selection applied to politics. Im sure the Greens can understand

Grudaire

Vadrefjorde wrote: »

Unfortunately for Sinn Fein the majority of the electorate still have this vision of voting for guys in flak jackets running up and down the hills of Crossmaglen..
Quite wrongly i might add.
The "greens" were the great white hope for a lot of people in that they were new, idealistic and people stupidly voted for them.....
The PD's were the epitomy of Country Tom's cronyism... Hell we still have that hippo grinding the HSE into the ground in the belief her private health service pals will cash in.. Mary should look out the window some time at the dole queue growing daily.
Getting back to the greens their sell-out was the greatest shock to the new followers because unlike the PD's who stood for capital gain at whatever cost and fcuk anything in our way, the greens peddled the idealistic approach and were seen by most i guess as those most likely to make a change. But, hey presto they have magically changed into another flavour of Fianna Fail.
Fianna Gael, yet another shower of tossers only slightly worse than our existing buffoons, what a great inspiration to the electorate to vote for them and vote for "change" NOT....
So we have a country with no credible opposition. No one party actually coming out with a realistic approach, not one party with a credible solution, not one party with a mandate for change.
If there was ever an opportunity for an opposition party to stake claim in the future of Irish politics then there is no better climate than the one we are currently in.. And we have ? No-one..
No one taking our crony developer loving government to task. The green's political history is over, thats plain as day. The shennanigans of MAry Harney and Tom Parlon have had their day too. The langers we are hoping to get us out of this mess are all sitting on the fence waiting for something good to happen, and our opposition is non-existant. FFS if sinn fein or Labour actually want to be in government or be accepted as a credible alternative to this shower of tools then why don't they come out and make a clear stance on their policies, not token appearances on Q&A etc.. The opposition party needs to have a nationalistic approach to policy and to Europe, those will be the core issues that will mobilise the electorate, not this tripe thats currently going on.....
I've had enough anyway i give up on this f**king country and have decided to emigrate.... :mad::mad::mad:

Sinn Féin pander far too much to the extreme, but sin scéal eile!

I've said it before that comparing the Greens to the PD's isn't fair. The Greens have come to power when the ecnomy is going to ****. Now they don't have the money to get things done.

The Greens are focusing on their own main agenda which is the environment. Now somehow they are getting the blame for departments outside their control. The Greens have put through some great legislation to do with buildings, and the quality of buildings

The Green Party if you remember proposed that there should be a reduction in junior ministries. Let us not forget that for the mandate that they have that they are putting a massive amount of their policies into action.

And Slán! Taisteal sona :pac:

Raiser wrote:

The Green Party - like a Puppy: New, clumsy, dumb, seemed like a good idea at the time....but really more trouble than they are worth....inclined towards impulsive nonsense, blindly following their Master and randomly shítting on the rug....

Truely nailing your stance to the wall :rolleyes: Love the rant. Disagree but I love it

Boggle

The Greens are focusing on their own main agenda which is the environment.

Basically, we can all rot in hell (or on the dole) as long as you get to ban a few lightbulbs (oops) or implement EU directives (coming anyway) or get free bikes(just as well with less buses).

The Greens have put through some great legislation to do with buildings, and the quality of buildings

Great - pity we're all on the dole and cant afford insulation anymore! Doesn't matter - we cant afford heating oil either!!

Now somehow they are getting the blame for departments outside their control.

Cowen and Lenihan are calling the shots and, like it or not, the Greens are the ones who are keeping them in power and voting for their treachery. This is destroying the country but you guys dont appear to care one bit as long as you get your pensions.

It doesn't take a masters to understand this so either accept it or do something about it.

Vadrefjorde

Cliste wrote: »

Sinn Féin pander far too much to the extreme, but sin scéal eile!

I've said it before that comparing the Greens to the PD's isn't fair. The Greens have come to power when the ecnomy is going to ****. Now they don't have the money to get things done.

The Greens are focusing on their own main agenda which is the environment. Now somehow they are getting the blame for departments outside their control. The Greens have put through some great legislation to do with buildings, and the quality of buildings

The Green Party if you remember proposed that there should be a reduction in junior ministries. Let us not forget that for the mandate that they have that they are putting a massive amount of their policies into action.

What their mandate was and what they are doing now is their defining political legacy.
That and the sh1te idealistic crap like cutting buses, and car park space tax. Oh and lightbulbs, lets not forget the lightbulbs. Yes truely the party with a mandate to steer this country back on track. Not to mention this eco-drivel that's started to appear on our "state television" . I just sat through about 20 minutes of it and am amazed to see how much state television channels have progressed since the soviet era..

Sinn Fein don't pander to the extreme, they just cause an alergic reaction to the majority of the electorate and the inbred Fianna Fail families that vote because the family "always voted Fianna Fail".
the reality of the green ethos is that people weren't willing to make the change that the quirky few idealistics hoped for in the "boom times" . Now that everyone's broke their green ideas are even less appealing..

turgon

Vadrefjorde wrote: »

Sinn Fein don't pander to the extreme, they just cause an alergic reaction to the majority of the electorate and the inbred Fianna Fail families that vote because the family "always voted Fianna Fail".

Eh...wrong.

Go onto sinnfein.ie and down the side we get "History of the Conflict" and up the top "The Peace Process". Their inability to let go of the past and position themselves as an effective ideologically based party will mean they will get nowhere.

You shouldn't blame the parties deficiency's on the electorate, its called being in denial, but therein lies Sinn Feins policy since... oh yeah the beginning of time.

DublinWriter

humberklog wrote: »

I really thought they would have wimped out at this stage but underestimated how mature they have become in the real politik.

Yes, and clever auld Trevor Sergeant stepping down as GP leader and accepting a junior ministership before the formation of the current government.

I think he saw this coming.

DARKIZE

I think the OP is being a little naive. The Greens were never going to run for cover at the first sight of trouble; how could they ? The best they can EVER hope for in this country is to be a minority player in a coalition government, and the main parties could hardly take them seriously as potential partners in the future if they can't hang tough. Government is all about hard choices, especially now.

I think their problem is that they've focussed on the wrong items in the manifesto (think light bulbs, bike schemes, and parking-space taxes) and now they're coming across to the electorate as largely irrelevant. Better to focus (and deliver) on maybe three big-ticket items that they could point to at the end of the term.

Húrin

I think that the Greens should have pulled out a few months ago, but I always wonder why the Greens are the focus of more rage than Fianna Fail.

thebigcheese22

They will be out of government soon enough.
Their followers can't be THAT spineless :eek:

edanto

Húrin wrote: »

I think that the Greens should have pulled out a few months ago, but I always wonder why the Greens are the focus of more rage than Fianna Fail.

Probably cos FF have more friends in the meeja