so how important is the leaving?

sock puppet

Mario007 wrote: »

well let me tell you mostly those that dont pay attention in class are those who are pretty stupid, no disrespect. Also are you trying to say that if all you do in your life is hang about with your friends and pick fights random passer bys cos you're too drunk to do anything else, which is the case in most of the towns in the country, and taking the dole you're a success just cos you're happy?

Well I'd hazard a guess that anyone who drinks all day wouldn't be the happiest person alive. But a job is just a way to earn money. If someone feels happy on the dole their whole life then why would they change unless forced?

Mario007

sock puppet wrote: »

Well I'd hazard a guess that anyone who drinks all day wouldn't be the happiest person alive. But a job is just a way to earn money. If someone feels happy on the dole their whole life then why would they change unless forced?

well maybe because that person is really a burden to the society, though i hate using that phrase. you shouldn't really be getting a dole just cos you couldn't be bother to work, but thats a totally different topic.
lets just leave it at that the leaving cert is a gateway to future life and depends on yourself how greatly you wanna open that gateway

PurpleFistMixer

Mario007 wrote: »

well let me tell you mostly those that dont pay attention in class are those who are pretty stupid, no disrespect. Also are you trying to say that if all you do in your life is hang about with your friends and pick fights random passer bys cos you're too drunk to do anything else, which is the case in most of the towns in the country, and taking the dole you're a success just cos you're happy?

My my, where did you get such a fantastically large brush? And such glossy tar to go with it, and all.
Those who don't pay attention are more likely to do poorly in exams, yes, so if you define "stupid" as meaning "does badly in exams", they end up being stupid. Whether or not any particular stupidity is what leads them not to pay attention is another thing, however. I know I rarely paid attention in French class, and I'm fairly sure I'm not stupid. I was just bored off my face.
And, well, the person you described above might not be considered a success in the eyes of others, but if their life makes them genuinely happy (I can't understand how anyone can be deeply happy with a life like that, though), then they are a success to them. Success is not just "grow up, do well in school, get a respectable job, raise 2.9 chidlren, live in the suburbs".


The LC as a gateway to college is a path to one particular future, which does not suit everyone.

Mario007

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

My my, where did you get such a fantastically large brush? And such glossy tar to go with it, and all.
Those who don't pay attention are more likely to do poorly in exams, yes, so if you define "stupid" as meaning "does badly in exams", they end up being stupid. Whether or not any particular stupidity is what leads them not to pay attention is another thing, however. I know I rarely paid attention in French class, and I'm fairly sure I'm not stupid. I was just bored off my face.
And, well, the person you described above might not be considered a success in the eyes of others, but if their life makes them genuinely happy (I can't understand how anyone can be deeply happy with a life like that, though), then they are a success to them. Success is not just "grow up, do well in school, get a respectable job, raise 2.9 chidlren, live in the suburbs".


The LC as a gateway to college is a path to one particular future, which does not suit everyone.

well if you dont pay attention in class and/or disturb,as is the likely case you are what is considered stupid. not paying attention cos its boring is simply called being a student:D
so are you saying that leaving cert is nothing and all, sure you can just be happy with a life of stacking shelves?

PurpleFistMixer

Mario007 wrote: »

well if you dont pay attention in class and/or disturb,as is the likely case you are what is considered stupid. not paying attention cos its boring is simply called being a student:D
so are you saying that leaving cert is nothing and all, sure you can just be happy with a life of stacking shelves?

What is considered stupid is not something I worry about too much, tbh. But yes, messers usually don't do well in tests.

And... well, if a life of stacking shelves makes you happy, then why not? I wasn't talking about exactly WHAT makes a person happy here, you must realise. I don't know if working an essentially skilless, unchallenging, impersonal job such as stacking shelves will fulfill a person enough to make them happy, I'd assume not... but it's hard to say. Everyone has different priorities and requirements for happiness, and this is getting all a bit too philosophical for the question at hand. The LC is not the be all and end all of your life. There we go.

ebmma

It is not unimportant, but not worth killing yourself over it.

Jam-Fly

"It's not about what you achieve, it's about what you enjoy"

Mario007

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

What is considered stupid is not something I worry about too much, tbh. But yes, messers usually don't do well in tests.

And... well, if a life of stacking shelves makes you happy, then why not? I wasn't talking about exactly WHAT makes a person happy here, you must realise. I don't know if working an essentially skilless, unchallenging, impersonal job such as stacking shelves will fulfill a person enough to make them happy, I'd assume not... but it's hard to say. Everyone has different priorities and requirements for happiness, and this is getting all a bit too philosophical for the question at hand. The LC is not the be all and end all of your life. There we go.

i actually agree with you there, like my class teacher says:
Is leaving cert important? Yes it is.
Is it something worth destroying your health and happiness? No it isn't.

sunnyside

Mario007 wrote: »

and taking the dole you're a success just cos you're happy?

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

I don't know if working an essentially skilless, unchallenging, impersonal job such as stacking shelves will fulfill a person enough to make them happy, I'd assume not... but it's hard to say. Everyone has different priorities and requirements for happiness, .

The people who are stacking shelves or on the dole could be incredibly happy because not everyone bases happiness on what their job title is. For a lot of those people family or a hobby like sport or music is what they live for. The shelf stacking is what they do to finance the things that are really important to them.

Another thing to remember about jobs is that very few people stay doing the same job forever anymore. So what you train to do after the Leaving Cert might not be what you are doing in 10 years time.

I have the degree and can honestly say that in recent years people who never went to college did better financially (builders anyone?) but now with the recession that's changing.

Mario007

sunnyside wrote: »

The people who are stacking shelves or on the dole could be incredibly happy because not everyone bases happiness on what their job title is. For a lot of those people family or a hobby like sport or music is what they live for. The shelf stacking is what they do to finance the things that are really important to them.

Another thing to remember about jobs is that very few people stay doing the same job forever anymore. So what you train to do after the Leaving Cert might not be what you are doing in 10 years time.

I have the degree and can honestly say that in recent years people who never went to college did better financially (builders anyone?) but now with the recession that's changing.

well i can't see someone being happy to be going to a job just waiting to get out of there and then actually do what makes you happy...its almost like the same thing as going to school. and of course living on the dole would be convenient for everyone really, i mean we all want to do nothing and get paid for it. But thats not how things work.
but i like that point about recession, to be honest with the recession kicking in lc is fairly important.

Jam-Fly

look, if you get higher points in the leaving cert than someone else, that doesn't mean you're better than them.

If you get 550 in the LC, and someone else gets 500, but in the year that you spent your time only studying to get 550 points, they spent their time studying to get 500 points, winning the cup, having a great time every weekend, scoring loads of girls, learning how to drive a car, learning how to play the piano, getting a golf handicap of 3, curing world hunger, ending cancer....etc. would you consider yourself more successful than that person?
Also, if someone gets 500 putting in 100 hrs of study (arbritary number), and you get 510 putting in 1500hrs of study, who is more successful then?

It's the person as a whole that makes up 'how successful you are'.

Gavin "shels"

Mario007 wrote: »

look i dont mean to sound like a bastard or anything, but for me leaving cert is what separates the smart people from those messers in class with no aim in their lives whatsoever.

Not sure if anyone picked you up on this as I just flicked through the thread, but this has sums you up in one mate. The Leaving Cert doesn't determine anyone smart in my opinion, the Leaving Cert is about memory and how much information you can remember from the course.

My definition of smart who be people/teams who win the likes of TCH Quiz, etc...

Gavin "shels"

Jam-Fly wrote: »

look, if you get higher points in the leaving cert than someone else, that doesn't mean you're better than them.

If you get 550 in the LC, and someone else gets 500, but in the year that you spent your time only studying to get 550 points, they spent their time studying to get 500 points, winning the cup, having a great time every weekend, scoring loads of girls, learning how to drive a car, learning how to play the piano, getting a golf handicap of 3, curing world hunger, ending cancer....etc. would you consider yourself more successful than that person?
Also, if someone gets 500 putting in 100 hrs of study (arbritary number), and you get 510 putting in 1500hrs of study, who is more successful then?

It's the person as a whole that makes up 'how successful you are'.

Great post mate.;)

Mario007

Jam-Fly wrote: »

look, if you get higher points in the leaving cert than someone else, that doesn't mean you're better than them.

If you get 550 in the LC, and someone else gets 500, but in the year that you spent your time only studying to get 550 points, they spent their time studying to get 500 points, winning the cup, having a great time every weekend, scoring loads of girls, learning how to drive a car, learning how to play the piano, getting a golf handicap of 3, curing world hunger, ending cancer....etc. would you consider yourself more successful than that person?
Also, if someone gets 500 putting in 100 hrs of study (arbritary number), and you get 510 putting in 1500hrs of study, who is more successful then?

It's the person as a whole that makes up 'how successful you are'.

wow getting 500 points and doing all that would be quite an achievment:D

i think we actually went off the topic here, its not about how succcessful you are but how important is the lc, and the answer is pretty important especially with the economic climate, no matter what your counterarguements can be

postalservice

Gavin shels wrote: »

The Leaving Cert doesn't determine anyone smart in my opinion, the Leaving Cert is about memory and how much information you can remember from the course.

My definition of smart who be people/teams who win the likes of TCH Quiz, etc...

You serious??
I bet that if you check the winners of that quiz from the last couple years.......they all probably got 570+ points in the LC.

It's not impossible to do well in the leaving using intelligence and a small bit of study.

Don't tar everyone with same (SWAAAAAAAT) brush:P:P

Sorry....but i get passionate about this sometimes:o:o

Mario007

postalservice wrote: »

You serious??
I bet that if you check the winners of that quiz from the last couple years.......they all probably got 570+ points in the LC.

It's not impossible to do well in the leaving using intelligence and a small bit of study.

Don't tar everyone with same (SWAAAAAAAT) brush:P:P

Sorry....but i get passionate about this sometimes:o:o

i agree, i mean i dont study and i do well in school...course you have people who just swat for the lc, but then college comes and they don't know what they do. lc is about how you can meet a chalange and now complain about it and wonder if its fair or imporant

Mario007

Mario007 wrote: »

i agree, i mean i dont study and i do well in school...course you have people who just swat for the lc, but then college comes and they don't know what they do.

That's good for you. But, have you ever considered that if these people - which you so kindly tar with the one brush - didn't "swat", they mightn't get into college? Not everyone is so naturally gifted; perhaps some have to swat to achieve what they would like to achieve. In my opinion, anyway, there is nothing wrong with swatting: if it gets you to where you want to be.

Mario007

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

That's good for you. But, have you ever considered that if these people - which you so kindly tar with the one brush - didn't "swat", they mightn't get into college? Not everyone is so naturally gifted; perhaps some have to swat to achieve what they would like to achieve. In my opinion, anyway, there is nothing wrong with swatting: if it gets you to where you want to be.

you didn't actually quote my whole post, see i actually contradicted myself in the second half where i said its about meeting a chalange and preparing for it, so sorry if my half a post caused any offence

Mario007

Mario007 wrote: »

you didn't actually quote my whole post, see i actually contradicted myself in the second half where i said its about meeting a chalange and preparing for it, so sorry if my half a post caused any offence

Because, the second half of your post isn't relevant to the first. The second half applies to all: obviously the LC's challenge, and obviously it's about learning to prepare for it:- this applies to all LC participants; not just those who have to, as you say, "swat" to achieve results.

I, personally, wouldn't consider you to have contradicted yourself. You tarred all LC students who find the need to "swat" with the one and same brush: You said, in a sweeping generalization, that when they go to college they don't know what to do: as they're not as naturally intelligent as you imply yourself to be: "i agree, i mean i dont study and i do well in school".

Anyway, I apologise for derailing this thread. Broad and sweeping generalizations just, and always have, annoyed me.

PurpleFistMixer

Also amusingly enough, if ever there's a place where it's harder to get by on natural talent alone, it's college. You can be "smart" and sleep through secondary school, but unless you're actually a genius, you must work in college. So having a good work ethic is of vital importance. : )

Mario007

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Because, the second half of your post isn't relevant to the first. The second half applies to all: obviously the LC's challenge, and obviously it's about learning to prepare for it:- this applies to all LC participants; not just those who have to, as you say, "swat" to achieve results.

I, personally, wouldn't consider you to have contradicted yourself. You tarred all LC students who find the need to "swat" with the one and same brush: You said, in a sweeping generalization, that when they go to college they don't know what to do: as they're not as naturally intelligent as you imply yourself to be: "i agree, i mean i dont study and i do well in school".

Anyway, I apologise for derailing this thread. Broad and sweeping generalizations just, and always have, annoyed me.

i didn't mean to tar all students that dp their utmost best to get good results in the lc. maybe i might have actually said something in that way, but that was not meant at all. all i want to get across is that lc is important for people who want to go to college or as your first test whether you can actually go to extreme lengths to actually do finish off the assigment(ie the leaving cert)

Twinkle-star15

The Leaving Cert isn't a measure of how smart you are- it measures how well you can memorise a bunch of random topics and regurgitate them in two and a half hours.
Yes, you can get through the LC, get a fair few points whatever, with very little work if you're smart- but that doesn't mean you couldn't have done even better if you'd worked at it!
Different people are good at different things- I have a good memory and tend not to blank in exams (touch wood :P) so I usually do quite well.
On the other hand, I will never be excellent at sports, or physics.
Would you call me stupid because I can't do honours maths?
Or call me smart because I can ace French?

I don't think the LC is that important- there are always other ways to get the course you want, and hardly anyone knows at 18 where they want to be in 10 years time.
But if someone else thinks it's worth crucifying themselves over, I'm not going to argue with them.

dfx-

sock puppet wrote: »

But a job is just a way to earn money

I'd strongly disagree with this. If you like doing what you're doing, then a job doesn't have to be just a way to earn money. If you've an interest in archaeology, you can get a job out of that by qualifying..same goes for Maths/Chemistry/Physics etc. certainly. It's only a way to earn money if you're not happy in it and logically you can add that the Leaving Cert is the most direct way of getting a job you have an interest in and making it your job, so is very important in one respect.

The Leaving Certificate may look daunting and important (I didn't notice until I went to get my points), but can be really simplified - in the case of Chemistry anyway, from personal experience supervising labs where honours level students have to be taught the fundamental practical techniques in third level. It's nowhere near the defining moment that it is made out to be. No point in getting into Chemistry or Medicine or Maths or Arts with your points and not being able to cope afterwards.

Davidius

Jam-Fly wrote: »

It's the person as a whole that makes up 'how successful you are'.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
Everybody knows that points = personality. Fact.

:pac: