Bangernomics car of the week/day

Voodoomelon · 04-12-2009 10:25pm

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

For €999 this is sweet, full service history, timing belt done, the failing of the NCT on emissions though could turn out to be costly...

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200948195974118

Deja Vu...

Nice car, worth nearly be worth it to rip out the heated seat elements.

mullingar · 07-12-2009 3:35pm

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

For €999 this is sweet, full service history, timing belt done, the failing of the NCT on emissions though could turn out to be costly...

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200948195974118

I would love to see the NCT printout on the emissions, border line fail or a monstrous fail?.

It could be as simple as a cat or O2 sensor gone (spurious sensors around €100) as that engine is bullet proof

Viejo Zorro · 07-12-2009 3:42pm

Meh, a grand for something which, in traffic would return 18 mpg? Also keep in mind that you would nearly have to pay twice that to tax it...

mullingar · 07-12-2009 3:49pm

Viejo Zorro wrote: »

Meh, a grand for something which, in traffic would return 18 mpg? Also keep in mind that you would nearly have to pay twice that to tax it...

Bangernomics is all about cost per mile.

Lets face it, there is ZERO depreciation on that car. Depreciation is THE biggest running cost of any car.

I would bet that the full running costs including depreciation on this are cheaper than a 2007 tdi passat doing 10-12k miles/yr.

Dont belive me? do the maths! I did the maths and thats why Im driving an 11 year old Lexus GS300 and would not change it!

unkel · 07-12-2009 3:56pm

mullingar wrote: »

I would bet that the full running costs including depreciation on this are cheaper than a 2007 tdi passat doing 10-12k miles/yr.

Dont belive me? do the maths! I did the maths and thats why Im driving an 11 year old Lexus GS300 and would not change it!

Yup, I've done the maths meself many a year ago

1948Wolseley · 07-12-2009 5:53pm

samih wrote: »

Then on the other hand the old merc 722.4 box is not exactly the most advanced auto box in the world. Combining a power sapping slushbox with a traditionally rev happy and in this case the entry level benz petrol engine is a recipe for disaster leading to lots of kick down action to keep moving with the traffic.

Not that the clutch on the mercs is easy to use, but at least the performance would be acceptable even with the 1.8 engine.

If it was a at least a 2.3 and more preferably 2.6 auto would be a must.

I had a 190E 1.8 with said autobox, and it was quite a civilised, if not particularly fast, way to get around town. There was enough low-down torque that it didn't have to shift too much in normal driving. ('Normal driving' does not include steep hills, which were negotiated with the engine screaming near the redline in second gear, temperature gauge rising rapidly and driver sweating profusely). The engine did have a 'second wind' around 3000 r.p.m. though, which meant that neck-snapping acceleration was available from 60 m.p.h. in top, until you inevitably ran out of revs and gears soon after.

x in the city · 07-12-2009 6:35pm

a cat for that luxobarge lexus...

prob cost more than the car tbh

Mr Benevolent · 07-12-2009 10:30pm

Hmm, just been thinking about the depreciation conundrum. My brother lost €1200 in ten months selling his '99 Bora... that's a helluva lot on such an old car, and it does have to be taken into account in reality. I always assumed the depreciation was a theoretical loss only factored in by people with the money to worry about it, but now I understand :eek:

Bangernomics all the way!

Viejo Zorro · 08-12-2009 2:43am

mullingar wrote: »

Bangernomics is all about cost per mile.

Lets face it, there is ZERO depreciation on that car. Depreciation is THE biggest running cost of any car.

I would bet that the full running costs including depreciation on this are cheaper than a 2007 tdi passat doing 10-12k miles/yr.

Dont belive me? do the maths! I did the maths and thats why Im driving an 11 year old Lexus GS300 and would not change it!

Well, what is the depreciation on a 1995 Audi 80 TDi? Solid, sought-after engine which will return 48mpg no problem... Can be bought for around the 600 mark, have a corrosion-protected body which, if my memory serves me correctly, had a ten-year anti-corrosion warranty on it back in the day...

Work it out this way... if the Lexus is returning 18 mpg, with petrol at 119 down my end... how much would it cost to do the Galway to Dublin run?
133 miles, therefore 7.39 gallons, which equates to 33.59 litres, which in turn will set you back about 40... So therefore a return run from Dublin to Galway clocking in at 80? Prohibitive, it reminds me of the Jeff Dunham stand up where, on the gas prices rising in the states, he points to his Hummer and introduces his daughters to their newest garden ornament.

Marlow · 08-12-2009 3:04am

Viejo Zorro wrote: »

So therefore a return run from Dublin to Galway clocking in at 80? Prohibitive, it reminds me of the Jeff Dunham stand up where, on the gas prices rising in the states, he points to his Hummer and introduces his daughters to their newest garden ornament.

Well, it might cost that, but you'll be driving very comfortable. I drive a car that does about 18-20 mpg, is over 10 years old and I love it to bits.

I couldn't dream of buying a newish car, because I'd loose more value on that, than what I spend on petrol in a year. And I do sort of 60k km/year. Just claim miles against the tax

/M

Mr Benevolent · 08-12-2009 3:42am

Viejo Zorro wrote: »

Work it out this way... if the Lexus is returning 18 mpg, with petrol at 119 down my end... how much would it cost to do the Galway to Dublin run?

133 miles, therefore 7.39 gallons, which equates to 33.59 litres, which in turn will set you back about 40... So therefore a return run from Dublin to Galway clocking in at 80? Prohibitive, it reminds me of the Jeff Dunham stand up where, on the gas prices rising in the states, he points to his Hummer and introduces his daughters to their newest garden ornament.

18mpg? Far too low. A GS300 would do around 24-27mpg on that run.

zilog_jones · 08-12-2009 2:16pm

The 18 mpg was in reference to the above LS400.
There's cat's on eBay for £141 each (I think it has two), but no one knows if that is the actual problem here.

Viejo Zorro · 08-12-2009 2:38pm

Marlow wrote: »

Well, it might cost that, but you'll be driving very comfortable. I drive a car that does about 18-20 mpg, is over 10 years old and I love it to bits.
/M

Fair play! But few of us can do that sadly...

Agreed on depreciation though...

EPM · 08-12-2009 2:40pm

Viejo Zorro wrote: »

Work it out this way... if the Lexus is returning 18 mpg, with petrol at 119 down my end... how much would it cost to do the Galway to Dublin run?
133 miles, therefore 7.39 gallons, which equates to 33.59 litres, which in turn will set you back about 40... So therefore a return run from Dublin to Galway clocking in at 80? Prohibitive, it reminds me of the Jeff Dunham stand up where, on the gas prices rising in the states, he points to his Hummer and introduces his daughters to their newest garden ornament.

But on a cruise it should be well into the mid 20's surely?

Plus a hell of a lot more comfortable than a rattly old 80 diesel

zilog_jones · 08-12-2009 3:15pm

EPM wrote: »

But on a cruise it should be well into the mid 20's surely?

Fortunately I have a December 1995 What Car? magazine here

:
Urban: 21.2 MPG
56MPH: 35.8 MPG
75MPH: 29.4 MPG
Touring (50% urban + 25% 56MPH + 25% 75MPH): 26.9 MPG
Tank is 18.7 gallons

Viejo Zorro's 18 MPG claim must have been US gallons

no1beemerfan · 08-12-2009 3:55pm

Rory123 wrote: »

If we are talking about buying, running and maintaining costs, and reliability and not too bothered about image, or too much comfort, my recession-buster would have to be a K11 Micra.

I've one! My first car actually and still have it 10 years later! Has to be one of the cheapest cars to run. Still get over 55mpg out of it.

samsemtex · 08-12-2009 4:09pm

Viejo Zorro wrote: »

Well, what is the depreciation on a 1995 Audi 80 TDi? Solid, sought-after engine which will return 48mpg no problem... Can be bought for around the 600 mark, have a corrosion-protected body which, if my memory serves me correctly, had a ten-year anti-corrosion warranty on it back in the day...

Work it out this way... if the Lexus is returning 18 mpg, with petrol at 119 down my end... how much would it cost to do the Galway to Dublin run?
133 miles, therefore 7.39 gallons, which equates to 33.59 litres, which in turn will set you back about 40... So therefore a return run from Dublin to Galway clocking in at 80? Prohibitive, it reminds me of the Jeff Dunham stand up where, on the gas prices rising in the states, he points to his Hummer and introduces his daughters to their newest garden ornament.

I always thought the point of bangernomics was that you got a great car for little money. A 1995 Audi 80 may have been a good car back then but not today. Sure it'd be cheaper to run but probably less comfortable than a 2000 Toyota corolla.

The Lexus is still a great car and leagues ahead of anything like an Audi 80.

zilog_jones · 08-12-2009 4:24pm

samsemtex wrote: »

A 1995 Audi 80 may have been a good car back then but not today. Sure it'd be cheaper to run but probably less comfortable than a 2000 Toyota corolla.

I wouldn't say that, E110 Corollas are not a particularly nice place to be in, and legroom in the back is apalling. I can only assume the many taxi drivers who use these for their work are sadists.

Eoin · 08-12-2009 4:36pm

Viejo Zorro wrote: »

Well, what is the depreciation on a 1995 Audi 80 TDi? Solid, sought-after engine which will return 48mpg no problem... Can be bought for around the 600 mark, have a corrosion-protected body which, if my memory serves me correctly, had a ten-year anti-corrosion warranty on it back in the day...

I think you're missing the point of this - obviously a smaller engine old car will be cheaper to run, service and (maybe) buy than a larger engine old car. But the older large engine car probably costs less to own than a new smaller engine car, when you take depreciation into account.

Viejo Zorro · 08-12-2009 5:09pm

Isn't that completely obvious? A newer car would clearly not fit into the Bangernomics section of the market, right? However, just because an aged gas guzzler cannot further depreciate, does not make it good value, unless it will start to appreciate, like the W140 Merc's are at the moment. Now were that a W140 being offered at sub-grand prices, the prospect of appreciation would make it a feasible investment, if an exceedingly costly car to run. It'll be a while before a 400 series Lexus will appreciate.

So, from that perspective, I still fail to see how a sub grand 400 series Lexus is an economic proposition? Unless it is being bought as an ornament... I am not disputing what is undoubtedly a fantastic car, but from an economic perspective...

Viejo Zorro · 08-12-2009 5:11pm

zilog_jones wrote: »

Fortunately I have a December 1995 What Car? magazine here :
Urban: 21.2 MPG
56MPH: 35.8 MPG
75MPH: 29.4 MPG
Touring (50% urban + 25% 56MPH + 25% 75MPH): 26.9 MPG
Tank is 18.7 gallons

Viejo Zorro's 18 MPG claim must have been US gallons

Fair enough... I have a friend who isn't getting much more than 18 mpg out of his 97 one. Maybe his one is clapped...

Eoin · 08-12-2009 5:17pm

I know what you're saying - it's not necessarily cheap motoring, it's just a better (IMO) way to spend your money. Obviously if you're looking for the absolute cheapest way to get from A to B, a Lexus LS400 is not the way to go.

But if you would prefer to spend a few grand on a top of the range car, and stomach the tax and running costs instead of the cost of depreciation on a bland new car that's might be very fun or comfortable, then there is a case for it.

The thing is that some people spend mental money on a car that will eke out an extra few MPG out of a tank and it's a false economy. Sort of like spending €1,000 on a piggybank to put your coppers into.

Viejo Zorro · 08-12-2009 10:57pm

Ah, I get what you're saying.

unkel · 08-12-2009 11:49pm

Viejo Zorro wrote: »

it will start to appreciate, like the W140 Merc's are at the moment.

I doubt the W140 is appreciating atm, although an early W126 surely is

The current economic situation combined with the €1566 tax for >3l cars has decimated the value of any big engined 10-25ish year old saloon car. I'd say a lot of them (in perfectly good condition) are likely to be scrapped one of these years.

skyhighflyer · 09-12-2009 9:12pm

€950 for a 1995 A4 with the same owner since new

This is the one for me though:

Clean looking E280 (best engine for the W210) with a fair bit of NCT left, 2 owners.

Esel · 09-12-2009 10:13pm

skyhighflyer wrote: »

€950 for a 1995 A4 with the same owner since new

This is the one for me though:

Clean looking E280 (best engine for the W210) with a fair bit of NCT left, 2 owners.

A link to the ads would be nice...