What to do when breastfeeding is akin to torture?

Quackles

I need some advice from the mammies who've breastfed or tried to... I'm sure you hear this all the time, but it's getting me down and I don't really know anyone I can talk to in real life who's been through it, so here goes..

I had my second child 4 days ago. I didn't breastfeed my first son. He ended up with allergies to milk, eczema and athsma. I really, really wanted to feed this one, and so far I've been exclusively breast feeding, but it's like pure torture One nipple is pure raw, the other one is sore but not visibly damaged. I feel like crying every time I feed him, I feel housebound, trapped, even mildly resentful. I've tried the football hold, it feels weird and uncomfortable. I think he's latching on ok, as it will be agonisingly sore in the beginning but seems to settle a little after he's been on a bit. He varies from feeding for 20 or so minutes to an hour and a half. He's lost almost the 10% of his body weight and he's jaundiced. I'm using lanisoh after every feed. My milk still hasn't come in yet He doesn't really seem that interested in feeding and will sleep up to 4 hours between feeds if I don't wake him. I hate waking him up just to go through the pain of feeding him!

How do I get over this initial period? Does it take long usually for us both to learn to feed? I just want the pain to stop! I keep telling myself it'll get better when the milk comes in, but I think I'm kidding myself, it'll probably get worse because I'll feel engorged too. I will take to the public health nurse tomorrow and get her to look at how he latches on, but in the meantime, I'd really appreciate any advice you experienced mothers have for me. I feel so out of my league here It's having a knock on effect then, as I start worrying about how I'm going to be able to handle things when my husband goes back to work with the three year old and the baby, especially if the baby takes an hour and a half to feed, and I can't hand him to anyone else to do it.

kizzyr

I'm not a parent so I'm sorry to say I can't help you with the breast feeding specifics. However, I would like to tell you not to blame yourself for your oldest child's allergies, asthma etc. My two older sisters breastfed their children and for one sister two of her three kids have developed eczema and asthma and for another sister the middle child develeped asthma and eczema too.
Sometimes these ailments are in a family and will be passed on to a child regardless. If you are so unhappy with breast feeding, your child isn't getting enough to eat, you are in that much pain and its not getting better don't feel bad about changing to bottle feeding.

Quackles

kizzyr wrote: »

I'm not a parent so I'm sorry to say I can't help you with the breast feeding specifics. However, I would like to tell you not to blame yourself for your oldest child's allergies, asthma etc. My two older sisters breastfed their children and for one sister two of her three kids have developed eczema and asthma and for another sister the middle child develeped asthma and eczema too.
Sometimes these ailments are in a family and will be passed on to a child regardless. If you are so unhappy with breast feeding, your child isn't getting enough to eat, you are in that much pain and its not getting better don't feel bad about changing to bottle feeding.

Thanks, I know it might have made no difference, but I still want to give this baby the best possible chance at avoiding the same issues. I'm not ready to call a halt to it yet.. Well, sometimes I am, other times I'm not! Even if it doesn't help with the allergies, there's still the other benefits to both him and me.. It's just something I really wanted to do for my child, and I feel like a bit of a failure because it's not working out very well.

littlebug

Quackles you just take a deep breath and say "it will get easier it will get easier". I was the exact same in the very early days with my second and if one side was really unbearably sore I would express from that side and feed from the other for a couple of feeds just for a bit of a break. I know you probably can't do that yet:( Some people swear by the nipple shields. Have you tried them? Mine wouldn't feed at all with them but it might be worth a go. There is a trick which helps with the latch- it involves tickling the roof of their mouth with your finger before they latch.. I think it makes babs open his mouth wider but you should talk to someone who knows more about it. La Leche?
Other than that I'll pass on the best advice I was given. I said it in another thread but I'll say it again. Every morning I would start off with breastfeeding and acknowledge how difficult and painful it was but say... I will continue for today, even if I decide tonight that I can't do it anymore my baby will have had the benefit of one more day of breastmilk. Taking a day by day approach got me through until it became easy. And no matter what happens Quackles you have given him the best start you can with the colostrum so give yourself a big pat on the back for that:)

Oh and I could never do the football hold either.

Nevyn

Nipple shields ASAP.
Most chemists will do them.

Also if you need to you can top him up with forumula feed
and use a breast pump to try and increase your milk flow.

Yes the first few days can be very sore esp if he hasn't been latching on properly
and you get a cracked nipple and being stressed and tense won't help your milk flow
or the happy hormoane production which breast feeding can give.

I would say there is no harm what so ever skipping a feed to give yourself a break
and hand express to keep up production.

Also make sure that you are eating and drinking enough.

Yes breast is best but really at what cost, if it's taking too much of a toll on you
and none of the above works out then there is nothing wrong what so ever in bottled
feeding, cos gods know you will have tried.

As for him be janduiced have you tried put him beside the window in his pram,
the non direct sunlight will help.

When I had my first the best way I found to breast feed at first was to be
lying on the bed on my side with my son in the crook of my arm,
and then while sitting up in bed wit him supported by a pillow on my lap.

Seriously what ever works.

It is harder when you have a pre shcooler to look after as well.
My son was 2 and half when I had my daughter and at one stage
I was playing playstation games and breastfeeding at the same time
as it was the only way to keep him amused and in the same room and not
up to mischief while I feed her.

axer

Quackles wrote: »

I need some advice from the mammies who've breastfed or tried to... I'm sure you hear this all the time, but it's getting me down and I don't really know anyone I can talk to in real life who's been through it, so here goes..

I had my second child 4 days ago. I didn't breastfeed my first son. He ended up with allergies to milk, eczema and athsma. I really, really wanted to feed this one, and so far I've been exclusively breast feeding, but it's like pure torture One nipple is pure raw, the other one is sore but not visibly damaged. I feel like crying every time I feed him, I feel housebound, trapped, even mildly resentful. I've tried the football hold, it feels weird and uncomfortable. I think he's latching on ok, as it will be agonisingly sore in the beginning but seems to settle a little after he's been on a bit. He varies from feeding for 20 or so minutes to an hour and a half. He's lost almost the 10% of his body weight and he's jaundiced. I'm using lanisoh after every feed. My milk still hasn't come in yet He doesn't really seem that interested in feeding and will sleep up to 4 hours between feeds if I don't wake him. I hate waking him up just to go through the pain of feeding him!

How do I get over this initial period? Does it take long usually for us both to learn to feed? I just want the pain to stop! I keep telling myself it'll get better when the milk comes in, but I think I'm kidding myself, it'll probably get worse because I'll feel engorged too. I will take to the public health nurse tomorrow and get her to look at how he latches on, but in the meantime, I'd really appreciate any advice you experienced mothers have for me. I feel so out of my league here It's having a knock on effect then, as I start worrying about how I'm going to be able to handle things when my husband goes back to work with the three year old and the baby, especially if the baby takes an hour and a half to feed, and I can't hand him to anyone else to do it.

Does the mid wife not offer such support? If you have the number for her then ring her and ask for advice what to do.

My sister is a mid-wife and lactation consultant but she is in OZ atm so I cannot ask her but she always says that the mid-wives are there for after birth support too for such advice as you need right now.

kmick

My wife went through the same. Forget about lanisoh it just makes them softer. She used the nipple shields as well and found them great while she healed. Go to www.rollercoaster.ie for more advice from mothers. She used that all the time and found it great.

KittenCaboodle

Thaedydal wrote: »

Nipple shields ASAP.
Most chemists will do them.

Dammit, in before me whilst I was researching!

My friend used these, there are problems with them though, there's a good article here, still personally I would go this route in your shoes, at least temporarily:

http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVJunJul00p39.html


There's a link on there to this article about alleviating nipple pain:

http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVFebMar00p10.html

Nevyn

Whats the football hold ?

/googles

bugger that.

[nsfw]http://www.leron-line.com/handouts/Positioning_and_Latch.htm

That is a pretty good link does have Boobs in it so I have to tag it nswf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipple_shield_(breastfeeding)


I had TWO cracked nipples with in 24 hours of having my daughter
she was over due and a damn hungry baby and I had to give her two bottle feeds
while in the hosiptal with the nurses wringing thier hands thinking I would give up
breast feeding, but I didn't I got home and used the nipple shields until both
of my cracked nipples healed and went on to breast feed her for the next 10 weeks.

Sleipnir

Holles St have an excellent breastfeeding clinic once a week. My GF was having an absolute nightmare with our first son, same as yourself, until we went to that. They were brilliant.
We got advice from all quarters which was often contradictory but the clinic was excellent. Even when he did latch on properly and we were like "that's great, thanks. We'd better go" the doctor said to sit down, relax and feed him. THe queue could wait!

Don't quit until you've gotten help!

Nevyn

Ring the midwife/health nurse and get them to call sooner if you need them,
also as there may be a breast feeing group in your area ( not all of them are le'eche.).

Oh and have you tried having a bath if that is possible for you ?
I know it may sound daft and feel even more so when you are kneeling or lying with your boobs in the warm water but I found that it helped, esp if you choose to skip a feed and express while you have your boobs submerged, I had a blocked milk duct and that is what sorted that one.

Also 4 days in you will be hitting baby blues with the old horrormoans, you poor pet.

bazwaldo

First congrats on the birth and on giving breastfeeding a go. Well done. Its well worth it once things get going. So don't give up.

My wife is a breastfeeding counsellor. If you want to give her a call, please PM me and I'll give you our number.

Or if you prefer, you can call Cuidiu (see http://www.cuidiu-ict.ie/fulcrum.html?ep=10). They provide support over the phone. http://www.cuidiu-ict.ie/fulcrum.html?ep=34 has the list of counsellors too.

Dades

My missis had the same issues as you - sore nips, jaundiced nipper etc.
Tried the shields for a while, too.

After a lot of stress she gave it up to pump (industrial jobbie), and we both think it was the best move ever. Daddy got involved, mummy didn't stress out and got a little more freedom.

Just bear in mind there are alternatives with, imo, a plus side.

Quackles

Thanks for all the advice and support, folks.. I woke him up, used a shield on the really sore side. It did help, I'm just worried that he's not getting anything from it. Still, the shield was milky when we finished, so he had to get something, right? He fell back asleep really quickly, and woke about an hour later, I fed him from the not 'as' sore side without the shield. Again, it was a real splash and dash affair and he's asleep again! Oh, and I've put him sleeping over by the window to help with the jaundice!

I had bought an electric pump jobby when toy city were doing their half price sale a couple of weeks ago, so I've washed that and it's currently sterilising - will get it on the scene later to try and stimulate the milk production. It has to be coming soon, though, I'm very achy today! The day I can pump enough so that my husband can feed him I'll be a very, very happy girl! Hubby is great and will do whatever I ask him to, but I still have to get up regardless, and he misses being able to feed the little one.

I'm going to put a pin in ringing people up about it, it'd feel weird There is a breastfeeding clinic every second Tuesday in a neighbouring town, I will head in to that, it's just a pity that the meetings are so far apart. If I thought I was on the verge of quitting, I'd ring the midwife or public health nurse, but I'm not there yet - I'll keep plugging away with the shields, I think, and see how we go from there.

On a practical side, how do you keep those shields sterile if you're going to be out of the house? I'm just going to throw them into an expressed milk container, but surely there's a better way!

Thanks again, folks, the support means a lot to me, more than you'll ever know.

ArthurDent

As the others have said nipple shields are good. Lanisoh cream is also fab. I was in agony feeing my second fella from day 4 to about day 7, but it did get better after that - fed him for nine months and just finished feeding number 3 and she is 25 months old . Also try and let air around your boobs as much as possible! (Mad I know - but it does help if the nipples are cracked). I also found a cup of something hot (tea, decaff coffee or hot chocolate) really helped with milk let down -maybe its just cause of the sitting down and relaxing when having the tea etc.

Best of luck - hope it works out for you.

Nevyn

Quackles wrote: »

On a practical side, how do you keep those shields sterile if you're going to be out of the house? I'm just going to throw them into an expressed milk container, but surely there's a better way!

I used to use a hard plastic soother container.
You know the one for keeping two soothers in when sterile ?
Which can be sterilised it's self as well.

metrovelvet

I gave up on breastfeeding but I am convinced the stress blocked the let down. Another mother I know quit trying after electric pumpling for 6 weeks several times daily. It wasnt until she gave up that the flow came.

What I think I should have done, and this is not conventional wisdom, is sit down with a couple of beers and relax and let the tension go.

Tipsygypsy

Hi Quakles, first off congratulations. And well done you for giving breastfeeding a go. I know its not easy at first, I wanted to reassure you that some of the issues you are having at the moment will be a distant memory by that end of your babys 2nd week.
about the jaundice, all of my three breastfed babys were jaundiced for the first week of their little lives, and my third fella remained so for a few weeks. This is not a big deal and as a previous poster suggested if you let him lie in nondirect sunlight this will improve. It will also improve tremendously once your milk comes in fully, the milk wil flush it right out of him... The same applies for the weight loss, this is normal and will change after your milk comes in. The more you latch him on the greater your supply will be, so its great that that you are waking him to feed regularly. (no need to wake to feed at nightime though.. if he wants to sleep 4 hrs at night then let him off and you sleep too!)
Im afraid sore nipples, in my own experience , is just part and parcel of the first week, it just takes a little while for them to toughen up, I know people have recommended using nipple sheilds and I agree they are good as a SHORT TERM SOLUTION. WHile your cracks heal up. Im not so sure that they are great in the long term , but Im sure there are many who'll disagree with that .
Its true that the upcoming engorgement is uncomfortable but tbh I have never felt such a strong sense of acheivement as I did those first few times thatmy milk really let down and my sons had a fully satisfying meal. And it settlesdown after a couple of days.
In my experience, the first week or two are hard work, cant deny it, but after that it will have been soooo worth it. So my advice would be hang in there, you're nearly through the worst of it. I think with early breastfeeding you have to take a leap of faith that you can get through the hard part and reap the rewards. You are a few short days for plain sailing.
If you do at any time feel the need for encouragement and support feel free to pm me.

By the way, after your milk comes in you wont need to feed for an hour and a half... the baby gets the majority of the feed in the first 5 minutes. A half an hour will be more than enough... there is a great website called kellymom or kellysmom thats a fantastic resource for breastfeeding moms... full of useful info.

Best of luck with it. I just finished feeding my youngest a few months ago ( after a total of 30 months feeding between my 3 boys) and Im so sad that I will never expereince it again:(

Susan

Tipsygypsy

metrovelvet wrote: »

I gave up on breastfeeding but I am convinced the stress blocked the let down. Another mother I know quit trying after electric pumpling for 6 weeks several times daily. It wasnt until she gave up that the flow came.

I couldnt pump for the life of me.. no idea why, wouldnt get a drop out of a manual pump, and only marginally more from the electric... I think the boobs got stagefright!! felt under too munch pressure!!:D

metrovelvet

Tipsygypsy wrote: »

I couldnt pump for the life of me.. no idea why, wouldnt get a drop out of a manual pump, and only marginally more from the electric... I think the boobs got stagefright!! felt under too munch pressure!!:D

same here. just didnt work. Oh my god it was awful. i felt the pressure. the baby felt the pressure. no one could relax into it. he got frustrated so wouldn't suckle. hell hell hell just to add to the other circles of hell that is new motherhood.

Quackles

Hello again, folks..

Yesterday went ok, I persevered, got a nipple shield and used it on the bleeding side. Last night, however, didn't go so well. I fed him as much as I could, but the child would not sleep, so out of sheer desperation, thinking he was hungry, I topped up with a bottle for the first time at about 4 this morning. It was still 6 before he went to sleep, and he woke again just after 9, I fed him from the breast and finished off giving him the smallest wee mouthful of the bottle. Both nipples are now bleeding, and the milk is still not in. He's only after going back to sleep again now, so I think I'd better do likewise. It is so much harder to persevere when you're operating on two hours of sleep!

I did take a look at the LLL and cuidiu websites - cuidiu lists no-one in my vacinity, LLL lists a group that meets once every two weeks, so if things are still a) happening and b) not happening very well by the next meeting, I'll be there.

At the moment, my thinking is that I'll keep offering the breast first (I let him feed for at least 15-20 minutes a side) and finishing up on the bottle. The reason behind this is that I was reading some stuff on Dr. Jack Newman's website that scared the crap out of me, primarily that if they are still passing meconium and not proper breastfed stools by day 5 you need to bring them to a doctor - he is still passing meconium. Also, his urine is dark orange, looks really dehydrated to me. PHN is coming this morning, I'll get her opinion on it, too. I feel so bad, though, for caving on the bottle issue, I get upset when I think about it. I can't help feeling like I let him down and put my own comfort before the health of my baby.

Ok, I'm off to the leaba, maybe things will look better after a nap.

Kildrought

Quackles, ring LLL - there'll be local leader you can ring right now and get help and advice - you don't have to wait for the next meeting.

Milk tends to come in round about Day 5, it's not an absolute marker and can vary from mother to mother; so don't panic too much about that.

The key thing right now is to get your supply established, if you give any thing else there's a good chance you will interfere with this process. As long as he has around 6-8 wet nappies a day, that's the main thing.

New born babies don't tend to sleep much, unfortunately it goes with the territory! :-) It does get better though.

Be careful on the PHN front - some are great, some are just dire and haven't a breeze about b/feeding.

Conclusion: best advice I can give you is to ring LLL, get the number of your local leader and give her a call right now - you'll be glad you did!

bazwaldo

I agree with Kildrought. Definitely talk to someone with expertise in breastfeeding as soon as you can. It will help put your mind at rest.

Two other things as our 4 were all jaundiced to varying degrees.
1) Breastfed babies can be jaundiced for a lot longer than bottlefed. Its actually called breastmilk jaundice and with one of ours it lasted for a couple of months. Sunlight and the odd topup with boiled water helped a lot.
2) With the jaundice, the wee wee is a lot darker due to it being flushed out. So I would judge by the wetness of the nappy rather than the colour as to whether he is dehydrated or not.

P.S. the cuidiu support numbers are for whoever where ever.

Quality

hey, here is my advice for you...

heat rest and frequent feeding is important for sore nipples,

So get your hot water bottle out!!

make sure baby is latching on properly. feeding on the breast rather than the nipple.

Express some milk and rub it on your nipples after feeding, its healing properties will help your nipples.
If you have lanisoh rub a little of that into them.

Dont wear a bra if you can get away with it..

My lil fella is 11 weeks now, so I can remember how painful it is...

Oh and smile while he is latching on.. I always used to plaster a smile on and curl my toes..


this might help also


It helps to talk to someone, so if you have any friends who have breast fed talk to them.!!!

littlebug

ArthurDent wrote: »

Also try and let air around your boobs as much as possible! (Mad I know - but it does help if the nipples are cracked).

.

+1 to that- let the girls hang out! I really think you should ring someone in lll or the person on here who offered their number. I know a lovely woman in lll if you want her number. She was a wonderful help to me and had great tips about positioning etc.

Quackles

I'm nearly afraid to come back on here and post this after you've all been so good.. I made the decision to put him on to a bottle instead. I felt like the constant worrying, pain and stressing was spoiling my time with him, I was dreading the time he was awake instead of enjoying it, so I made the call I thought was best at the time. I think it was the right choice for me, I actually enjoyed feeding him and interacting with him last night for the first time since he was born. I still firmly believe that breast is best, but it was not the right fit for us

embee

Quackles wrote: »

I'm nearly afraid to come back on here and post this after you've all been so good.. I made the decision to put him on to a bottle instead. I felt like the constant worrying, pain and stressing was spoiling my time with him, I was dreading the time he was awake instead of enjoying it, so I made the call I thought was best at the time. I think it was the right choice for me, I actually enjoyed feeding him and interacting with him last night for the first time since he was born. I still firmly believe that breast is best, but it was not the right fit for us

Hey Quackles,

Glad to hear that you're less stressed and enjoying quality time with your baby! Breast is indeed best but it isn't for everyone.

Lizzykins

You tried your best. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Enjoy your baby and get a bit of rest when you can.

littlebug

Quackles darlin' you've tried your damnedest. You've done great and have given him the best start you could with the colostrum for those days.
Happy mommy= happy baby xx

the glass woman

Quackles congrats on your new little bundle. I just wanted to post to say i've been through that too, gave up feeding after about ten days of both bottle and breast. I know what a hard decision it is and how bad you end up feeling, and also how you feel the need to justify it to people who ask.. In my case i got no support in the hospital and didn't know about the other support groups out there, was ten days overdue and my son was nearly twelve pounds and very hungry, plus i'd a c-section, all of which made it so hard to feed him but i still feel guilty sometimes even though my now 17 month old is thriving. He also suffered excema and is allergic to cows milk so i now have him on a growing up formula. Congrats again and well done for making the right choice for yourself and your baby xx

AnnieB82

Hi Quakles, how are you doing now?
I just had to reply even though there are tons of other great replies! I was almost in the same boat as you when my son was born 6 months ago. First of all it was a c-section, which delayed my milk coming in. My DS was also drowsy from the anesthetic so he would not latch on for the life of him. My breasts were killling me, and my milk didn't come in as fast as other mothers'. As he lost almost 10% of his body weight the nurses had me terrified I was straving him so I ended up feeding him formula while still in hospital. I like you tried him on the breat first ( which I think really helped established breastfeeding in the end) and then gave him a bottle after about 30 mins of trying. On day 4/5 my milk finally came in and he pretty much fed all that first day. What no one told me at the time was that most babies loose some weight ( up to 10% is ok) and babies don't even have an apetite for the first few days. Once I finally had him latching on - I was still not out of the woods - I was also in pain, and a bit resentful as I felt that I would never have any kind of freedom again. I could only latch him on by holding him in the crook of an arm. The thoughts of feeding in public absolutely terrified me! I found the LLL leader was very helpful, and luckily for me the PHN were I live are very pro breastfeeding, and didn't make me worry about his weight as some of the nurses in the hospital did. My son had re-gained his birth weight within 2 weeks, and is huge now! Also once you get used to breastfeeding, it is actually much more convenient than bottle feeding. I managed to keep a supply of express milk, in case I needed someone to mind him. (mind you only after a month or 2 - as initially I could not express much) I even breastfeed discreetly while out and about, and cannot imagine bottle feeding - it actually seems a lot more hassle to me now.
I wouldn't give up though as it really really does get better. It's such a cliche and I was sick of hearing it at the time - but it really does. It may take weeks/ months though, and you will have bad days, but I was told if you're gonna give up, then give up on a bad day, and not a good one!