The Problem with Rafa Benitez...

The Chessplayer · 22-01-2009 1:33pm #1

Obviously the draw against Everton would not be such a big deal if Benitez had not inflicted the following home draw crimes-against-humanity on us:

Hull, Fulham, West Ham, and ...shudder Stoke City (Kuyt up front).

I, like many others, consider Lucas, Kuyt and Dossena to be 3 of the most unworthy players to have ever weighed in at Liverpool with a fee. You'd have to go back as far as Souness's calamitous transfer dealings, to find the likes of Paul Stewart and Istvan Kosma, but at least Souness would quickly consign these lads to the reserves. Houllier, too, bought many many comedy club type players such as Salif Diao but rarely persisted with them.

Benitez's pig-headedness in contract wranglings are really p!ssing me off. I would not be happy to have him 100% in control of the transfer budget. If he walks, then so be it.

Who would replace him?
They say MO'N wouldn't be interested, and I'm not sure we could get Mourinho...

Savman · 22-01-2009 1:38pm

Hardly worthy of a thread of its own?

PiE · 22-01-2009 1:43pm

Oh dear.

22-01-2009 1:43pm

I thought KUYT was playing well this season?

Chardee MacDennis · 22-01-2009 1:45pm

there is already a liverpool thread.

now to your post:

1. you obviously know nothing of the background regarding rafas contract demands
2. forget Houllier did we? Dossena, Lucas and Kuyt are much better than 90% of the dross Houllier bought, just coz you were 12 at the time and dont remember it. Also at any time we can sell Lucas and Dossena both who are highly respected in Italy, and considering the gossip this morning it seems Juve have an eye on Kuyt.
3. MON really? not to insult any villa fans coz he is a good coach but he is not better than Rafa Beitez and has never done anything to prove himself better.

its liverpool fans like you that dont know how well the club is run due to Rafa alone and how much damage it would do to us if he left, that are gonna end up pushing him out.

there should be an exam about footballing knowledge before you are given access to Soccer...

EDIT: as great a coach Mourinho is, it says a lot about you that you would consider him as a future manager consider the crap he has said about liverpool before and the way he acts is not becoming of a liverpool manager tbh. suppose you read The Sun too?

herbieflowers · 22-01-2009 1:47pm

do people ever get tired of harping on about Benitez and Liverpool on this forum?

Boggles · 22-01-2009 1:49pm

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Benitez's pig-headedness in contract wranglings are really p!ssing me off. I would not be happy to have him 100% in control of the transfer budget. If he walks, then so be it.

What does 100 percent control of the transfer budget mean?

He doesn't have to discuss the transfers with members of the board?

I don't think any manager has 100% control, all transfers have to sanctioned and justified tbh.

NabyLadistheman · 22-01-2009 1:50pm

623 posts, I hope they all weren't has **** as what you've written in this thread

Karmafaerie · 22-01-2009 1:51pm

The problem with Rafa Benitez........is idiotic threads like this!!!:rolleyes:

Reganio 2 · 22-01-2009 1:54pm

No wonder we Liverpool fans get a bad rep

The Chessplayer · 22-01-2009 1:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought KUYT was playing well this season?

Honestly?

whatawaster · 22-01-2009 1:55pm

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Obviously the draw against Everton would not be such a big deal if Benitez had not inflicted the following home draw crimes-against-humanity on us:

Hull, Fulham, West Ham, and ...shudder Stoke City (Kuyt up front).

I, like many others, consider Lucas, Kuyt and Dossena to be 3 of the most unworthy players to have ever weighed in at Liverpool with a fee. You'd have to go back as far as Souness's calamitous transfer dealings, to find the likes of Paul Stewart and Istvan Kosma, but at least Souness would quickly consign these lads to the reserves. Houllier, too, bought many many comedy club type players such as Salif Diao but rarely persisted with them.

Benitez's pig-headedness in contract wranglings are really p!ssing me off. I would not be happy to have him 100% in control of the transfer budget. If he walks, then so be it.

Who would replace him?
They say MO'N wouldn't be interested, and I'm not sure we could get Mourinho...

If you think Martin O'Neill is a better manager than Rafa you need your head examined.
Kuyt has had a very good season. I was at the game on Monday night and he was definitely our best player. Sure he did things wrong, gave the ball away a couple of times, but he really sets the tempo for the team with his work rate. Watch the games against Chelsea and United again. Watch our home tie against Chelsea in last years CL semi final, the second half of the quarter final against Arsenal. 4 of our best performances in the last year and Kuyt was fantastic in all of them.
Dossena has been rubbish but has only been here a couple of months.
Lucas is still only 21 and was excellent in the games preceding the stoke match. IMO he was our best player against PSV and up there with Gerrard against Newcastle. Sure he's very inconsistent and can get muscled off the ball but to name him among the worst ever Liverpool players is absolute nonsense. And then you put his name in bold to further the insult. One thing you always notice about Lucas is that he never shies away from things, always looks to receive the ball and he works incredibly hard for the team. He was practically booed off the pitch by the idiots amongst our support, but he showed great character with his performances following that game.

Headshot · 22-01-2009 1:57pm

Liverpool are second in the league

1.......Man Utd.... 21.... 47
2...... Liverpool.... 22.... 47

stupid thread

Chardee MacDennis · 22-01-2009 1:57pm

whatawaster wrote: »

He was practically booed off the pitch by the idiots amongst our support

hmm i see a link here....

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

Liverpool are second in the league

1.......Man Utd.... 21.... 47
2...... Liverpool.... 22.... 47

Stats? dont come here with your stats! Rafa is clearly not the man for the job! I mean at the start of the season Liverpool fans wanted a title challenge, but our expectations are so much higher after 22 games of football, we should be 19 points ahead of united, with 66 points after 22 wins of course. Liverpool are clearly the best team in England, ney the world and Rafa has just been holding us back for the last 4 years....

Boggles · 22-01-2009 2:03pm

whatawaster wrote: »

Lucas is still only 21

22

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 2:03pm

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

Liverpool are second in the league

1.......Man Utd.... 21.... 47
2...... Liverpool.... 22.... 47

I think when people show this they forget the amount of injury's we've had during the season also

remove the equivalent of owen,wes and scholes from the pool.

would they be there? i doubt it.

deadhead13 · 22-01-2009 2:04pm

No club has a divine right to win the league. Look at the squad of players he inherited fron Houilier. Then compare liverpools spending power over the last 5 years to that man utd and chelsea. The fact we are competing at all is a testament to Rafa.

The Chessplayer · 22-01-2009 2:06pm

BastardPrince wrote: »

2. forget Houllier did we? Dossena, Lucas and Kuyt are much better than 90% of the dross Houllier bought, just coz you were 12 at the time and dont remember it. Also at any time we can sell Lucas and Dossena both who are highly respected in Italy, and considering the gossip this morning it seems Juve have an eye on Kuyt.
3. MON really? not to insult any villa fans coz he is a good coach but he is not better than Rafa Beitez and has never done anything to prove himself better.

its liverpool fans like you that dont know how well the club is run due to Rafa alone and how much damage it would do to us if he left, that are gonna end up pushing him out.

there should be an exam about footballing knowledge before you are given access to Soccer...

EDIT: as great a coach Mourinho is, it says a lot about you that you would consider him as a future manager consider the crap he has said about liverpool before and the way he acts is not becoming of a liverpool manager tbh. suppose you read The Sun too?

Take that spoon out of Rafa's ass!!!

I know there is already a LFC thread but this is a specific issue.

On Houllier, I could not even begin to sift through the dozens of awful signings.

I'm sure Dosenna and Lucas could be sold to clubs in Italy, what is your point? Dosser is competing against a few other poor full backs, but Lucas (a truly awful player) actually gets games while other competent fully-fit midfielders miss out.

I really doubt the Juve-Kuyt report. Dirk Kuyt couldn't possibly be deemed a serious replacement for Nedved!!! That's like replacing Steven Gerrard with John O'Shea!!!

MO'N is a great manager. No football person would ever say otherwise, and he's a cut about Benitez.

No I don't read the sun. I'm not a fan of Mourinho, but his antics would be welcome in comparison to Rafa's erratic tactical behaviour. Mourinho is a prat, yes. I'm just putting names out there.

Football exam: I certainly agree with that. There is no way you would pass though, unless you set it yourself.

eagle eye · 22-01-2009 2:07pm

jesus_thats_gre · 22-01-2009 2:08pm

There are so many inaccuracies in your posts that I can't be bothered addressing them.. Quite simply, you are wrong.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

deisedevil · 22-01-2009 2:09pm

If Rafa had not won the CL would he still be manager now?

If he doesn't bring Liverpool to the PL title or a CL title this season do you think he should stay?

Just wondering.

22-01-2009 2:09pm

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Honestly?

5 goals,three assists and is a workhorse.I thought he was ****e last season.

The Chessplayer · 22-01-2009 2:11pm

whatawaster wrote: »

If you think Martin O'Neill is a better manager than Rafa you need your head examined.
Kuyt has had a very good season. I was at the game on Monday night and he was definitely our best player. Sure he did things wrong, gave the ball away a couple of times, but he really sets the tempo for the team with his work rate. Watch the games against Chelsea and United again. Watch our home tie against Chelsea in last years CL semi final, the second half of the quarter final against Arsenal. 4 of our best performances in the last year and Kuyt was fantastic in all of them.
Dossena has been rubbish but has only been here a couple of months.
Lucas is still only 21 and was excellent in the games preceding the stoke match. IMO he was our best player against PSV and up there with Gerrard against Newcastle. Sure he's very inconsistent and can get muscled off the ball but to name him among the worst ever Liverpool players is absolute nonsense. And then you put his name in bold to further the insult. One thing you always notice about Lucas is that he never shies away from things, always looks to receive the ball and he works incredibly hard for the team. He was practically booed off the pitch by the idiots amongst our support, but he showed great character with his performances following that game.

Sorry to clog this thread but I have to answer them all...

MO'N is a class act. Surely Utd have their eye on him as a longterm replacement for Sir Rednose.

Look, I know Lucas is only 21 and I'm sure he will become a good player with time. We can't be blooding youngsters in this manner though.

I wasn't at the derby but I was watching it and Kuyt to be the best player did not say alot. We were atrocious, and wasn't Kuyt on the right wing??? How many balls did he whip in? Zero.

The Chessplayer · 22-01-2009 2:12pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

There are so many inaccuracies in your posts that I can't be bothered addressing them.. Quite simply, you are wrong.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

Is this not "trolling"? Pathetic post.

jesus_thats_gre · 22-01-2009 2:13pm

deisedevil wrote: »

If Rafa had not won the CL would he still be manager now?

Alot of ifs in your post..

It is impossible to know what would have happened if he didn't win the CL. If he didn't win it, he might have refocused his attentions to the likes of the FA or League Cup to make sure that the club was still winning trophies.

If the last 4 odd years remained identical, it is very possible that he might not still be there. It doesn't really mean anything though.

deisedevil wrote: »

If he doesn't bring Liverpool to the PL title or a CL title this season do you think he should stay?

Yes.

Highsider · 22-01-2009 2:13pm

liverpool joint top and into the final 16 of the champions league (again)...rafa out :rolleyes:

Highsider · 22-01-2009 2:14pm

deisedevil wrote: »

If Rafa had not won the CL would he still be manager now?

If he doesn't bring Liverpool to the PL title or a CL title this season do you think he should stay?

Just wondering.

Yes

Latchy · 22-01-2009 2:14pm

The question remains ,was Robbie Keane a bad buy by Rafa ?

Boggles · 22-01-2009 2:15pm

Highsider wrote: »

liverpool joint top and into the final 16 of the champions league (again)...rafa out :rolleyes:

Their second.

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 2:15pm

Highsider wrote: »

liverpool joint top and into the final 16 of the champions league (again)...rafa out :rolleyes:

why do people keep saying things like this

jose two prem titles back to back two cl semi's - gone.

grant cl final second in the leage - gone.

evil_seed · 22-01-2009 2:16pm

.... was his kidney stones. But he had operations to have them removed. Lock thread please

deadhead13 · 22-01-2009 2:16pm

The Chessplayer wrote: »

MO'N is a great manager. No football person would ever say otherwise, and he's a cut about Benitez.

.

2 La liga titles, 1 uefa cap, 1 CL and 1 FA would say otherwise.

eagle eye · 22-01-2009 2:18pm

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Is this not "trolling"? Pathetic post.

You say this^^^^ after you posted this??????????????????

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Take that spoon out of Rafa's ass!!!

PHB · 22-01-2009 2:19pm

I think Lucas is a good player. People are so willing to write off young players these days, same with Nani at United. He's young, has shown signs of talent, but not consistantly. He still has time to develop. People forget that Rooney, Ronaldo, Fabregas, Torres are exceptions to the rule. Most players don't start to reach their peak until 26 onwards

jesus_thats_gre · 22-01-2009 2:19pm

latchyco wrote: »

The question remains ,was Robbie Keane a bad buy by Rafa ?

Far too many rumours circulating that Rafa didn't actually want Keane to be signed and that Parry pushed it.

Helix · 22-01-2009 2:19pm

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

Liverpool are second in the league

1.......Man Utd.... 21.... 47
2...... Liverpool.... 22.... 47

stupid thread

and villa are only 3 points behind

we play on tuesday next week, a win will bring us level with pool as theyre not playing afaik, then we play the following saturday against wigan, where anything at all will put us ahead with pool playing chelsea the next day

i wouldnt be claiming league position as making benitez a great manager to be perfectly honest

Headshot · 22-01-2009 2:19pm

latchyco wrote: »

The question remains ,was Robbie Keane a bad buy by Rafa ?

of course he wasn't
he wasnt the type of striker pool wanted imo

during the euros torres and villa had a brilliant connection

and since Torres is best friends with David Villa, it might have tempt villa to pool

Chardee MacDennis · 22-01-2009 2:20pm

The Chessplayer wrote: »

MO'N is a class act. Surely Utd have their eye on him as a longterm replacement for Sir Rednose.

pretty sure you are wrong here and it is Mourinho who is being looked at to replace ferguson. cue another fail image...

ButcherOfNog · 22-01-2009 2:20pm

Buying the highly rated top scorer in the Dutch league, and the full back who was rated as one of the best defenders in Serie A were obvisously transfer mistakes that no sane person would be involved with. Also, our 4th choice center midfielder is not good enough. It's wonderful that someone finally told us why we as a club, are having such a terrible season.

Thanks for this information, we'll print your post out and forward it on to the club owners. We'll be in touch, you're feedback and football knowledge is invaluable to us.

deadhead13 · 22-01-2009 2:21pm

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

of course he wasn't
he wasnt the type of striker pool wanted imo

during the euros torres and villa had a brilliant connection

and since Torres is best friends with David Villa, it might have tempt villa to pool

He would have cost £30m at least

Headshot · 22-01-2009 2:22pm

deadhead13 wrote: »

He would have cost £30m at least

so what you already spent 20 somthing million on Keane

and liverpool had the money to buy Barry

The Chessplayer · 22-01-2009 2:24pm

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

Liverpool are second in the league

1.......Man Utd.... 21.... 47
2...... Liverpool.... 22.... 47

stupid thread

HANG ON A SECOND....

We drew at home to Hull, West Ham, Stoke and Fulham.

We should be clear by a country mile. United have been riddled with injuries, and Chelsea have had internal strife, meanwhile Arsenal lost Fabregas etc.

STOKE. Nil all. 9 days before the derby. Lucas. Kuyt up front alone. Keane doesn't even get a run out? Cop on to yourself!

deadhead13 · 22-01-2009 2:25pm

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

so what you already spent 20 somthing million on Keane

and liverpool had the money to buy Barry

What you believe G&H? Bollox.

Chardee MacDennis · 22-01-2009 2:25pm

also regarding Lucas:

The Bola de Ouro (Golden Ball) is an award given each year, since 1973, by the authoritative Brazilian magazine Placar to the best player in the Brazilian National Championship. It is practically the equivalent to a Footballer of the Year award. It is based on accrued points which players are given according to their performance after each matchday.

Winners

* 2008 : Rogério Ceni (São Paulo FC)
* 2007 : Thiago Neves (Fluminense)
* 2006 : Lucas (Grêmio)
* 2005 : Carlos Tévez (Corinthians)
* 2004 : Robinho (Santos FC)
* 2003 : Alex (Fenerbahce)
* 2002 : Kaká (São Paulo FC)
* 2001 : Alex Mineiro (Atlético Paranaense)
* 2000 : Romario (Vasco da Gama)
* 1999 : Marcelinho (Corinthians)
* 1998 : Edilson (Corinthians)
* 1997 : Edmundo (Vasco da Gama)
* 1996 : Djalminha (Palmeiras)
* 1995 : Giovanni (Santos FC)
* 1994 : Amoroso (Guarani)
* 1993 : César Sampaio (Palmeiras)
* 1992 : Júnior (Flamengo)
* 1991 : Mauro Silva (Bragantino)
* 1990 : César Sampaio (Santos FC)

i know its not a complete defence of him, but if a player who has won this award os one of the worst Liverpool signings ever, it says someting about the calibre of player we sign!!

Latchy · 22-01-2009 2:29pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Far too many rumours circulating that Rafa didn't actually want Keane to be signed and that Parry pushed it.

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

of course he wasn't
he wasnt the type of striker pool wanted imo

during the euros torres and villa had a brilliant connection

and since Torres is best friends with David Villa, it might have tempt villa to pool

No doubting the quality of Robbie Keane but it's just not happening for him at Liverpool and you get the feeling it wont .

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 2:30pm

BastardPrince wrote: »

a
Winners

* 2008 : Rogério Ceni (São Paulo FC)
* 2007 : Thiago Neves (Fluminense)
* 2006 : Lucas (Grêmio)

It makes no difference.

for a true reflection, why don't you look back through liverpool match threads.

notice the amount of liverpool fans constantly complain about his contribution I can't think of a game where he played and the thread wasn't full of bad vibes towards his play from LIVERPOOL fans.

"he looks lost"

is usually the most common one.

what he has done previous is not relevant he's not doing it in the premiership I've seen bats with better vision..

The Chessplayer · 22-01-2009 2:31pm

eagle eye wrote: »

You say this^^^^ after you posted this??????????????????

I'm here to discuss Benitez's peformance by making points, however informed or ill-informed they are judged to be. The important thing is that it is clearly defined criticism, rather than idiotic "FAIL" retorts etc by childish Benitez loyalists.

I'm not a supporter of Benitez, and I don't think he is the Messiah.

eagle eye · 22-01-2009 2:31pm

I feel the Big Lock coming soon.

Chardee MacDennis · 22-01-2009 2:33pm

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I'm here to discuss Benitez's peformance by making points, however informed or ill-informed they are judged to be. The important thing is that it is clearly defined criticism, rather than idiotic "FAIL" retorts etc by childish Benitez loyalists.

I'm not a supporter of Benitez, and I don't think he is the Messiah.

i believe we resorted to the fail posts after your "take that spoon out of benitez's ass" comment, you only have your self to blame or was that "clearly defined criticism" as well....

deadhead13 · 22-01-2009 2:33pm

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I'm here to discuss Benitez's peformance by making points, however informed or ill-informed they are judged to be. The important thing is that it is clearly defined criticism, rather than idiotic "FAIL" retorts etc by childish Benitez loyalists.

I'm not a supporter of Benitez, and I don't think he is the Messiah.

What???

eagle eye · 22-01-2009 2:33pm

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I'm here to discuss Benitez's peformance by making points, however informed or ill-informed they are judged to be. The important thing is that it is clearly defined criticism, rather than idiotic "FAIL" retorts etc by childish Benitez loyalists.

I'm not a supporter of Benitez, and I don't think he is the Messiah.

Well if you read my posts on him you'd know I'm not but I put it in one post at a relevant time and my point is made as a true football fan, not a troll trying to agitate people especially with the thread title, when this should have been one post in the Liverpool thread.

The Problem with Rafa Benitez...

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