The Problem with Rafa Benitez...

monkey9

joe123 wrote: »

The only reason were so close to the top in years is quite simply Chelsea and United are under performing.

We've been underperforming as well, yet we've managed to beat the above two.
Maybe another reason we're near the top is because we have only lost one league game all season. We've only lost three league games in 2008.
And Rafa according to some just can't seem to grasp the Premiership!

mayordenis

joe123 wrote: »

You wouldnt like robinho at Liverpool?? For ****s sake...:cool:

True maybe your right about lucas against newcastle he had a good game but seriously one game hasnt made him. Watch him next time, his passing at times is woeful.

And having no strikers left on (kuyt would striker more fear into a brick wall than he would any centre backs) was bascially giving Everton the incentive to just come at us.

As much as I like Benitez and dont want him out of the club I do take off my rose tinted glasses at times and ask myself "Rafa what the **** are you at".

And if you havent asked yourself this then your lying to yourself.

The only reason were so close to the top in years is quite simply Chelsea and United are under performing.

wow great points really well thought out

Robinho would be great but we couldn't afford him - end of that discussion

Lucas is a ****ing excellent talent and if you can't see that, it's not everyone else's problem, it's yours, his passing at times is sublime.

Oh good some Kuyt bashing - fair play.

At times I'm not 100% sure of every decision the man makes but that's true of every manager because I'm not him. He's very much stuck between a rock and a hard place, Robbie had a terrible game, and Torres had his 1st start (read that again 1st start since injury) and was knackered, what if he had of left them on and they still got the goal because our attack would of been knackered and useless - you would still find a stick to beat Rafa with.

Last time I'm going to say this Liverpool Like Chelsea and United are also underperforming - and missing our best player for most of the season thus far with a good helping of boardroom turmoil in there.

Why do you feel the need to only look at the ****ing negatives? please guys ban me now.

mayordenis

Warper wrote: »

He buys an awful lot of average players, players that simply will not improve the team. He also seems to be still unsure of what his best team is? I mean what manager excludes a centre-half for the Champions League and then proceed to play him in every match even when he has a full squad to choose from? Ya im talking about you Sami. So all in all is he really the man to guide Liverpool to the Premiership - I think not.

Bar Gerrard and Carra the whole squad is esentially new - are you saying it hasn't improved?

CivilServant

BastardPrince wrote: »

pretty sure you are wrong here and it is Mourinho who is being looked at to replace ferguson. cue another fail image...

I wish there was a no thanks button so I could put it under all your posts this thread.

mormank

The Chessplayer wrote: »

The point is that the way things have gone for us (other top 4's results), we have not taken advantage, and we won't get a better chance.

Skrtel injury was not a problem as we had Agger in cover, unlike last season when Agger got injured and Hyppia had to fill in. Torres was a huge loss, but pushing Gerrard up front made up for this.

I wouldn't usually reply to a sad post like yours, but it raises an interesting point: Liverpool's league positions under Benitez.

It is a fact that Rafa came out this season admitting that his policy of rotation was a failure. Took him long enough!

Also, before the Chelsea game he was talking about defending deep etc., only for Gerrard to rightly undermine him by saying that other teams have put all their men behind the ball against Chelsea and it hasn't worked, and that it was time to take the game to them. Also, there was the comedy of playing Gerrard in all those different positions and expecting him to be the best left or right winger in the world. We're lucky that Gerrard wields such a strong influence.

We haven't challenged for the league under Rafa because of his misguided tactics. Now that we have been lucky enough to get in pole position, he is messing it up. Plonker!!!

Stoke. Lucas. Kuyt.

how od you make this point?? i hope you were laughing when yu wrote this. if simply pushing gerrard up front makes up for losing out on possibly the best striker on the planet right now why did we bother buying him in the first place instead of just pushing gerrard up front all along!! total dross. reading this thread makes my head hurt and my ears bleed. complete tripe being spoken here and im a pool fan that is quite unsure about rafa's ability to ever win a league title with his current tactics...

Warper

mayordenis wrote: »

Bar Gerrard and Carra the whole squad is esentially new - are you saying it hasn't improved?

Thats is exactly what i am saying - prove to me how they have improved -
They say the league table doesnt lie so here is their finishing position for the last number of years

07-08 - fourth
06-07 - third
05-06 - third
04-05 - fifth -(Rafa's first season)
03-04 - fourth
02-03 - fifth
01-02 - second

Go figure - Liverpool have not looked capable at any time since Rafa took over of winning the League. Improved - dont make me laugh.

kida

Warper wrote: »

Thats is exactly what i am saying - prove to me how they have improved -
They say the league table doesnt lie so here is their finishing position for the last number of years

07-08 - fourth
06-07 - third
05-06 - third
04-05 - fifth -(Rafa's first season)
03-04 - fourth
02-03 - fifth
01-02 - second

Go figure - Liverpool have not looked capable at any time since Rafa took over of winning the League. Improved - dont make me laugh.

Ah Here, don't be raing on their parade

The Chessplayer

Boggles wrote: »

In hindsight selling Alonso would have been a bad idea.


As for Martin O'Neill, Liverpool could do alot worse, then again they could do alot worse than Benitez, Ramos comes to mind.

Unbelievable the way Rafa made a public show of Alonso during the ill-fated Barry saga. I just wonder could he not try and conduct himself with more dignity, the old Liverpool way. Thankfully Alonso stuck around.

MO'N is a steady pair of hands, no doubt...but it's true that there is no point in getting rid of Rafa and getting another unknown quantity. Premiership experience is paramount.

Mr Alan

Warper wrote: »

Thats is exactly what i am saying - prove to me how they have improved -
They say the league table doesnt lie so here is their finishing position for the last number of years

07-08 - fourth
06-07 - third
05-06 - third
04-05 - fifth -(Rafa's first season)
03-04 - fourth
02-03 - fifth
01-02 - second

Go figure - Liverpool have not looked capable at any time since Rafa took over of winning the League. Improved - dont make me laugh.

i'm really biting my tongue here.

but i'll do this sensibly.

2004/2005-58 points (Rafas first season) ****e squad-Champions League final

2005/2006-82 points (out of Europe early) improved squad concentrates entirely on league (also notches up FA cup win) and finsishes with our clubs record PL points tally.

2006/2007-68 points (CL Final,points thrown towards seasons end,ask Neil Warnock about this)-squad improves again, attaining CL qualification at a canter while coming within a gee hair of a CL win.

2007/2008-76 points (while also getting to a CL semi final) improved squad competes better on all fronts and puts in another improved league performance.

all the while adding players like Alonso,Keane,Torres,Skrtel,Agger,Reina & Mascherano

are you really saying you cant see any improvement between this team that regularly competes as near the best in Europe & the team that Rafa inherited?

are you really saying you cant see the improvement?

The Chessplayer

mormank wrote: »

how od you make this point??

I accept my point about Torres wasn't great, but it is a fact that Gerrard's new, more advanced, role has been a revelation...and Stevie has really excelled this season in that position, which has slightly negated Torres's absence.

Hasn't been a bed of roses for Keane, but Rafa hasn't made it easy for him...in his attempts to turn Robbie into a new Dirk Kuyt. A seasoned pro in the premiership, you would have to ask questions as to how Rafa deploys Keane. I hope to God that senior management at Liverpool have been hauling Benitez over the coals over his buffoonish behaviour.

MO'N with our resources would be well clear at the top. Moyes is another very good manager, but there would be doubts as to whether he could handle the pressure at Anfield. Would be a mighty sickener to the toffees though...

:cool:

zing

Any improvement is relative really. Our league position may not have improved significantly year on year but when you look at any overall improvement to the team you've also got to look at it in relation to how the teams that have finished ahead of us have also improved. There's no denying that they have also strengthened their sides during that period.

I do believe we have improved but that we're still effectively playing catch up as the others are also improving so are always a step or two ahead of us. The goal posts themselves are a moving target here.

eagle eye

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I accept my point about Torres wasn't great, but it is a fact that Gerrard's new, more advanced, role has been a revelation...and Stevie has really excelled this season in that position, which has slightly negated Torres's absence.

Hasn't been a bed of roses for Keane, but Rafa hasn't made it easy for him...in his attempts to turn Robbie into a new Dirk Kuyt. A seasoned pro in the premiership, you would have to ask questions as to how Rafa deploys Keane. I hope to God that senior management at Liverpool have been hauling Benitez over the coals over his buffoonish behaviour.

MO'N with our resources would be well clear at the top. Moyes is another very good manager, but there would be doubts as to whether he could handle the pressure at Anfield. Would be a mighty sickener to the toffees though...

:cool:

:rolleyes:

So Martin O'Neill who has never won a League would be miles ahead with the money Liverpool has. The fact that he has just as much money at Villa does not seem important to you.

Frankie Lee

First of all criticism of Kuyt is unfair, he works his socks off and creates a lot of space for Gerrard and Torres to hurt teams. However Pennant was always a better option for breaking down defensive teams.

Letting Crouch leave was a big mistake also, if had the service in the box he would get from Riera he would have scored a lot this season.

Lucas is a good prospect and again the abuse he gets is completely unfair.

Another mistake in the transfer market was the signing of Degen at right back when it is clear he is 4th choice behind Arbeloa, Carragher and Skrtel.

On the topic of the comparison between Benitez and O'Neill, comparing the achievements between Leicester and Valencia is a bit much and O'Neill could not have been any more successful at Celtic. I'd rate the level of improvement at Villa greater than the improvement at Liverpool under Benitez greater. I think O'Neill is a better manager capable of getting more out of players.

spockety

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Letting Crouch leave was a big mistake also, if had the service in the box he would get from Riera he would have scored a lot this season.

Crouch wasn't 'let go'. He left.

Another mistake in the transfer market was the signing of Degen at right back when it is clear he is 4th choice behind Arbeloa, Carragher and Skrtel.

He was free.

I'd rate the level of improvement at Villa greater than the improvement at Liverpool under Benitez greater. I think O'Neill is a better manager capable of getting more out of players.

Exhibit A : Djimi Traore's Champions League medal.

The Chessplayer

Frankie Lee wrote: »

First of all criticism of Kuyt is unfair, he works his socks off

How many times have I heard united fans say something along the lines of "maybe liverpool will win the league if dirk kuyt keeps running his socks off".

PiE

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I just wonder could he not try and conduct himself with more dignity, the old Liverpool way.

Hahahaha. Now I know you're taking the micky swiss. Well played though, for a moment there I actually thought you were a Liverpool fan.

monkey9

This is a ridiculous thread, but it's sunk to new depths of lunacy with claims that the Liverpool squad is no better than that of 2004!!!

Third_Echelon

The Chessplayer wrote: »

<snip>

Moyes is another very good manager, but there would be doubts as to whether he could handle the pressure at Anfield. Would be a mighty sickener to the toffees though...

:cool:

Here... hands off Moyes... :P

I think the man has enough tact not to do the dirt

Boggles

spockety wrote: »

He was free.

No such thing as free, wages, medical, bills, insurance, also unnessary competition for limit places drags down morale.

eagle eye

Boggles wrote: »

, also unnessary competition for limit places drags down morale.

Yeah thats been a huge problem at United over the years.:rolleyes:

PiE

Boggles wrote: »

also unnessary competition for limit places drags down morale.

Which FM guidebook did you read that in?

Boggles

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah thats been a huge problem at United over the years.:rolleyes:

Well just last year Pique, Rossi.

Boggles

PiE wrote: »

Which FM guidebook did you read that in?

You know PiE when I typed that I knew someone would say that, fair play. :pac:

eagle eye

Boggles wrote: »

Well just last year Pique, Rossi.

Yeah thats two and you forgot Eagles as well. But United have an enormous roster and to say about an extra player at Liverpool is nonsense really. They can easily turf one out on loan just like United.

PiE

Boggles wrote: »

You know PiE when I typed that I knew someone would say that, fair play. :pac:

So... wait. You know you're typing rubbish yet you post it anyway?

Boggles

PiE wrote: »

So... wait. You know you're typing rubbish yet you post it anyway?

So wouldn't agree with any of it?

PiE

Oh sure, I completely agree with the first part. Mainly because it's hard to argue with a pedantically mundane statement that everyone in the history of the world, ever, is already aware of.

Your actual original input to the post is rubbish though.

Boggles

PiE wrote: »

Oh sure, I completely agree with the first part. Mainly because it's hard to argue with a pedantically mundane statement that everyone in the history of the world, ever, is already aware of.

Your actual original input to the post is rubbish though.

Thank you for your honesty, I will take it and board and try do better. :pac:

monkey9

Boggles wrote: »

No such thing as free, wages, medical, bills, insurance, also unnessary competition for limit places drags down morale.

No he was free as in he wasn't doing anything else that day so he just decided 'ah sure, i may as well sign for Liverpool seeing as i'm lounging about'

Ardent

mayordenis wrote: »

Lucas is a ****ing excellent talent and if you can't see that, it's not everyone else's problem, it's yours, his passing at times is sublime.

Lucas may be a decent player but you're getting totally carried away there - he wouldn't make it into the teams of our rivals and he doesn't add anything we haven't already got to ours.

Ardent

Warper wrote: »

There are a number of problems wrong with Benitez along with a number of positives.

The guy is tactically brilliant for the "big matches" which he has shown on numerous occasions especially in the CL and this year in the Premier League.

Unfortunately he is stubbornly naive, especially at home, playing the lesser teams. He cant seem to grasp that lesser teams will play ultra-defensive at Anfield and he cant seem to figure out a way to overcome this.

It is debatable whether Liverpool are improving - Chelsea, Utd., Arsenal are not playing as well this year as previously so this is obviously a major factor why Liverpool are at the top of the table as they are still having a number of shocking results especially at Anfield.

He buys an awful lot of average players, players that simply will not improve the team. He also seems to be still unsure of what his best team is? I mean what manager excludes a centre-half for the Champions League and then proceed to play him in every match even when he has a full squad to choose from? Ya im talking about you Sami. So all in all is he really the man to guide Liverpool to the Premiership - I think not.

Amen brother.

missingtime

Martins Samuel's take on benitez:

To stay at Liverpool, Rafael Benitez, the manager, does not require a team of lawyers working overtime to insert unworkable clauses into his new contract.

He needs something altogether more decent, simple and old fashioned. Trust.

A mutually sincere relationship between a senior employee and his employers is what separates Benitez from Sir Alex Ferguson at Manchester United, Arsene Wenger at Arsenal, Martin O’Neill at Aston Villa, even David Moyes at Everton.

Benitez has an issue with Rick Parry, his chief executive, whereas by comparison Ferguson has nothing but praise for Parry’s equivalent at Manchester United, David Gill, describing him in an interview with GQ magazine as the best thing to happen to the club recently.

Benitez stops short of wishing Parry gone, but his comradeship with co-owner Tom Hicks, who has also moved against Parry, would seem to be based on the old adage that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Observed as a family unit, Liverpool are strange and dysfunctional.

The most successful of Benitez’s contemporaries have working relationships built on two central tenets. The first is that the manager is the best judge of what a football club needs in the transfer market, the second is that the senior executives will, within reason, at all times respect this and attempt to deliver his vision.

Crucially, however, such arrangements are not put in writing. They cannot be. To embrace this ideal in a way that was legally binding would make an employee more powerful than his employer.

Ferguson is not given the power to dictate transfer policy at Old Trafford; instead he accepts assurances that this is the way it will be.

Other professions will recognise this arrangement. A newspaper columnist, for instance, writes on the understanding that he is at liberty to express individual opinions, without interference. Yet, not one will have a contract that says ‘write what you like’; in black and white a publisher will always reserve the management’s right to edit or spike copy.

This protects the newspaper against extremity, inaccuracy, vanity or a bloke just trying to work his ticket. Press freedom exists on trust.
Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill

The best football clubs also utilise this dynamic. Gill knows that Ferguson’s judgment has brought success; Ferguson understands the Glazer family must have the final word on major expenditure. The manager trusts that they will listen to his recommendations; the owners trust he knows what he is doing.

The problem at Liverpool would appear to be that nobody trusts anybody, which is why Manchester United were prepared to pay above what was expected for Michael Carrick of Tottenham Hotspur, and Liverpool vetoed Benitez’s interest in Gareth Barry of Aston Villa, against his wishes.

To recap, Parry and Benitez are clearly at loggerheads, as are Liverpool’s owners, Hicks and George Gillett. Parry and Hicks are opposed, too. Against this backdrop of constant battling are skirmishes; over Barry not coming, Daniel Agger possibly going and, most damagingly of all, around Benitez’s contract. Fernando Torres, Liverpool’s record signing, said at the weekend that as many as six players would consider their options if Benitez left, so this current dispute must be taken seriously.

The downside of employing a leading coach from abroad is that the influence of a strong individual tends to alter the culture of a club. So Liverpool is now a Spanish enclave on the Irish Sea and the consequences of Benitez walking would outstrip, for instance, the departure of Moyes at Everton.

Moyes has been consistent, relatively successful and is very well respected, but has not presided over what amounts to regime change. Everton, as of January 21, 2009, still resemble Everton of March 14, 2002, when Moyes took over, except better. Not so Liverpool.

Losing Rafa would mean abandoning the Rafalution and Liverpool would move, in an instant, from a point where the mission is on the point of accomplishment to one where it is starting again from scratch. In the circumstances, then, it should be imperative to keep him: but not at any cost.

What Benitez wants is basically out of the question. He cannot have total control of the transfer budget, because it is not his budget. There is mitigation and sympathy for Benitez but it is too simplistic to view this merely as the fall-out from the failure to sign Barry last summer. This is about what happens if trust is missing from a relationship.

It was not that Liverpool could not afford Barry, or did not want Barry, it was that they did not trust Benitez sufficiently to make the call.

He thought the player was worth £18million, his employers did not, and they did not satisfactorily support his expertise to allow him final say. Now Benitez wishes to circumvent this process with clauses in his contract, but if Liverpool did not trust him then, why would they trust him now, and why would they legally surrender executive veto?

Would Barry’s £18m fee have been too much for Manchester United or Arsenal had the manager made his case? The likely answer is no. Yet, Ferguson and Wenger do not possess total control over transfers, either. They merely have a board of directors who respect their opinion.

If Benitez felt that same love, none of this would have happened. David Dein, the former vice-chairman of Arsenal, is feted for the way he managed Wenger during his Highbury days but, beyond the initial appointment — which was inspired — how hard can it have been?

A pre-recorded tape message could have accomplished much the same (and been relied upon not to sell its shares to Alisher Usmanov) throughout those years. In the event of a difficult transfer decision, the board would consult its trusty Grundig Four Track Deluxe Model TK 23L, press play and hear what it had to say. A deep voice would then intone: ‘Whatever the French bloke wants, say yes.’ Job done, gentlemen, meeting adjourned, anyone fancy a pint?

The Glazers have clearly reached the same conclusion about Ferguson, Randy Lerner, the Aston Villa owner, about O’Neill, too. It helps, though, if manager and owner are simpatico. Wenger, for some reason, has an aversion to spending money, and that policy will find favour with any board.

Ferguson is always willing to drop a million or 30 in the transfer market, but his way also wins trophies and he was very supportive of the Glazer takeover from the start, quickly learning the value of private ownership when United went out of the Champions League at the group stage against Benfica, and no questions were asked or profits warnings hastily issued to the City.

O’Neill and Lerner have been on the same wavelength from day one in a way that must make Mark Hughes, the manager of Manchester City, green (or greyer) with envy

Then there is Benitez who should, with his track record, have a parallel relationship but does not because, privately, some at the club still view him as a thinking man’s Harry Redknapp and flag up a quite frantic turnover of playing staff as evidence.

In this game of point-counterpoint, Benitez will then refer cynics to the squad he inherited and ask what else was he meant to do. And on it goes.

The stance of the club is unhelpful because the transfer market has never been an exact science and even the greatest managers make mistakes. Benitez would have paid £18m for Barry with no guarantees, yes, but the executive who killed that deal but agreed Robbie Keane was value for money at £20m from Tottenham is hardly looking the sharpest tool in the box, either.

The difference is that few depict the signing of Keane as a boardroom blunder. He is the mistake of Benitez alone. Maybe shouldering the blame has driven the manager to demand full responsibility.

Parry’s view is that every company has a chain of accountability and in football one of the links is between manager and chief executive. Looked at coldly, he is right. What he misses is the human touch, the bond that unites a successful club and is currently undermining Liverpool.

Parry found the right manager in Benitez, which is half of the job, but what remains is to put faith in him.

‘To trust people is a luxury which only the wealthy can indulge,’ wrote E.M. Forster. Liverpool would recognise the sentiment, but whether they can afford not to trust Benitez is a more pressing question. And if they do, how to demonstrate this without putting it in writing?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1125024/MARTIN-SAMUEL-All-need-trust--going-writing-Rafa.html

mada999

monkey9 wrote: »

We've been underperforming as well, yet we've managed to beat the above two.
Maybe another reason we're near the top is because we have only lost one league game all season. We've only lost three league games in 2008.
And Rafa according to some just can't seem to grasp the Premiership!

agreed! we've run into bad form also...
and also because we've taken points from teams around us utd and chelsea....

mada999

Frankie Lee wrote: »

First of all criticism of Kuyt is unfair, he works his socks off and creates a lot of space for Gerrard and Torres to hurt teams. However Pennant was always a better option for breaking down defensive teams.

Letting Crouch leave was a big mistake also, if had the service in the box he would get from Riera he would have scored a lot this season.

Lucas is a good prospect and again the abuse he gets is completely unfair.

Another mistake in the transfer market was the signing of Degen at right back when it is clear he is 4th choice behind Arbeloa, Carragher and Skrtel.

On the topic of the comparison between Benitez and O'Neill, comparing the achievements between Leicester and Valencia is a bit much and O'Neill could not have been any more successful at Celtic. I'd rate the level of improvement at Villa greater than the improvement at Liverpool under Benitez greater. I think O'Neill is a better manager capable of getting more out of players.

Disagree....Pennant got enough chances...he just wasn't willing to put the work in...

Crouch..wasn't let go..he left...also he was crap header of the ball...tbh

Mr Alan

Ardent wrote: »

he wouldn't make it into the teams of our rivals and he doesn't add anything we haven't already got to ours.

he would make it into any team in the PLs squad imo.

herbieflowers

Lay off Lucas. Jeez, he's still young. And he's shown glimpses of what he can do, it takes time to fully settle, particularly young foreign players.

CivilServant

Mr Alan wrote: »

he would make it into any team in the PLs squad imo.

No he wouldn't. Some you guys are making it sound like an excuse. Doesn't matter what age you are. Oh he's young, so what? So's Walcott, so's Rooney, and plenty of other young talent. He either performs or he doesn't and he's consistently shown he hasn't got what it takes to be a 1st team player for Portsmouth let alone Liverpool. You're deluding yourself if you think he's any good.

Mr Alan

are you grasping this? he is not a first team player with us.....he is behind Mascherano/Alonso & Gerrard in the pecking order.

i didnt say first team, i said squad.

are you saying that Arsenal/Chelsea/Utd dont have average members of their squad? or younger players they are hoping will develop into world class talents?

copacetic

isn't this thread nearly an exact copy of the same things that have been discussed for months on the Liverpool thread?

It seems terribly random what is and isn't allowed to be discussed on and off the super threads. Do the trolls really need another thread running at the same time? They'll wear themselves out running back and forward between them..

"Specific matches, major transfers and major news stories are not the purpose of superthreads"

Does some randomer posting this thread count as a 'major news story'? If not why is this thread open? is everyone now allowed to start team related thread topics and not have their thread butchered?

Racing Flat

Many people on this forum seem to think Liverpool are not very good and Benitez is not very good. Considering Liverpools Champions League success since Benitez has been there, both can't be true.

Either Liverpool are not very good, but have done so well because Benitez is good; or Liverpool have done well, despite Benitez, because they are good.

You can only pick one, you can't have both :pac:.

GuanYin

Copacetic, the next time you ignore a warning and back seat mod, you'll get a ban.

I won't warn about threadspoiling again. Post on topic or not at all.

Jazzy

... is that hes too lovely.


is that the answer ?

PHB

I'd be happy with Lucas in the United squad personally.

Loomis

Initially I think Benitez lagged in his transfers. He bought half the Spanish league simply because he come from there. Several players didn't work out. Kuyt was bought as a striker and played as a winger and until recently has been shocking. He bought Keane for 20million and has ruined his confidence. Alonso is one of the best midfielders in the league but he tried selling him to buy in Barry.
Right now I think his problem is the pressure. He started with Ferguson and not many people have come out on top in that one.

Rafa Watch

ntlbell

Ardent wrote: »

Lucas may be a decent player but you're getting totally carried away there - he wouldn't make it into the teams of our rivals and he doesn't add anything we haven't already got to ours.

The whole lucas thing even for me a united fan is getting very irritating.

first of all the guy is like 21.

On occasion he has looked a bit lost and his vision has been off.

but he is very young he's played about twenty odd matches in the prem and of them I'm not sure how many he's started it can take time for players to adjust to the prem and that's when your first choice playing week in week out.

TWENTY ONE.

Liverpool have dropped a shocking amount of points against mediocre opposition and all we hear is how bad lucas is.

Is lucas to blame for all those draws? does he not have seasoned internationals along side him?

why is none of the other seasoned pro's getting lashed out at?

picking on a 21yr old newbie to the prem is pretty small time.

there's much bigger problems than lucas.

Headshot

just out of interest

is Rafa buying any bright youngsters
18-20 yrs or even younger

LuckyLloyd

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote: »

just out of interest

is Rafa buying any bright youngsters
18-20 yrs or even younger

Yes.

Headshot

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes.

elabrote

have they even made the fist team yet or on the bench

Mr Alan

i just had to thank one of NTLbells post i feel horrible.

Yes Headshot Rafa has been signing up a lot of the brightest talents from around Europe.

Insua is the first to make it near the team. Nemeth is a striker & is probably the highest rated from the reserves last year, he is currently out of loan as he was injured most of the season for us. in his first game on loan,unfortunately, he got his cheekbone shattered against QPR, he is a class player & would have played a part with the first team this year if circumstances were different i feel.

There is also Daniel Pachecho, who was stolen from Barca, a la Fabregas, he too looks an exceptional talent & imo, will start to feature more regularly for the first team next year. Ask eze about him, he's still a little heartbroken about losing him as far as i know.

thats another thing rival fans dont really realise about Rafa, he has quite literally rebuilt Liverpool virtually from the ground up.

LuckyLloyd

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

He started with Ferguson and not many people have come out on top in that one.

lol. One of my favourite footballing myths. Mourinho, Wenger and Dalglish managed ok. The only one to really fail in the 'psychological' stakes was Keegan I guess.