Mourinho never won anything without class

redout · 22-01-2009 3:28pm #1

Mourinho has never won anything in his career except with top quality players at his disposal. He never achieved anything in his first two jobs with Benfica or Leiria. The Uefa cup win of 2003 and even more so the Champions league win of 2004 are not as big a fluke as many think. Just look at the players he had at his disposal at the time.

Now before people start saying "oh well some of them players were not really known before the Uefa cup win of 2003" takes nothing away from the fact they they were top class players. An example is the Ajax team of 95 which bar Rijkaard were not regarded as a mighty team but how they are looked on now is remarkable. Now I am not saying that all this Porto bunch went on to have the same success as many of the Ajax players but some of them have gone on to big clubs much the same as the Ajax situation. At Chelsea and now Inter he is obviusly surrounded by top quality players.

Now am I just dreaming this up or are there any similarities ? Should I hang me head in shame at even entertaining the notion ? let us know.

Uefa Cup 2003
Baia
Ferreira
Valente
Costinha
Deco
Carvalho
Costa
Maniche

Champions league 2004
Baia
Ferreira
Valente
Costinha
Deco
Carvalho
Costa
Maniche
McCarthy
Boswinga

Champions league 1995
VDS
R De Boer
F De Boer
Rijkaard
Seedorf
Davids
Overmars
Reiziger
Kluivert
Blind

Melion · 22-01-2009 3:30pm

Whats the point of this thread?

deadhead13 · 22-01-2009 3:33pm

Most managers have won f**k all, with are without class,

eagle eye · 22-01-2009 3:34pm

I didn't think it was possible for me to see a worse ball of sh*t in a post than the rubbish in the Benitez thread.

But that first post is hands down the silliest, stupidest post I've ever read. No sense or reason to it.

redout · 22-01-2009 3:34pm

Melion wrote: »

Whats the point of this thread?

To garner others opinions perhaps ?

Savman · 22-01-2009 3:36pm

So, to summarize, you need good players to win things.
'scuse me while I call CNN.

Melion · 22-01-2009 3:36pm

redout wrote: »

To garner others opinions perhaps ?

On what though?

redout · 22-01-2009 3:38pm

Savman wrote: »

So, to summarize, you need good players to win things.
'scuse me while I call CNN.

Thats the whole point. A manager does not need top class players to win things. The better ones can win without being surrounded by quality. Look at Greece in Euro 2004. Look at Fergie at Aberdeen ? He broke the old firm and beat Real Madrid in the 83 UEFA Cup Winners cup final.

PHB · 22-01-2009 3:49pm

That is an absurf statement.
Porto's team wasn't that good, he made them good.

Final team:

Vítor Baía
Paulo Ferreira
Jorge Costa
Ricardo Carvalho
Nuno Valente
Pedro Mendes
Costinha
Maniche
Deco
Derlei
Carlos Alberto Gomes

There is at absolute most, two world class players in there, Deco and Carvalho. Ferreira was a good player, as was Maniche. The rest of them barely played outside Portugal or Brazil.

Mourinho won the CL, the European Cup (not the Cup Winners Cup) with little more than 2 top class players, 2 very good players, and an average team. An amazing achievement, and why I wouldn't be too sad to see him take over from Fergie [if only he could be more attacking].

redout · 22-01-2009 3:51pm

PHB wrote: »

That is an absurf statement.
Porto's team wasn't that good, he made them good.

Final team:
ORTO:

Vítor Baía
Paulo Ferreira
Jorge Costa
Ricardo Carvalho
Nuno Valente
Pedro Mendes
Costinha
Maniche
Deco
Derlei
Carlos Alberto Gomes

There is at absolute most, two world class players in there, Deco and Carvalho. Ferreira was a good player, as was Maniche. The rest of them barely played outside Portugal or Brazil.

Mourinho won the CL with little more than 2 top class players, an amazing achievement.

What about Ajax then ? None of them bar Rijkaard at the time were looked on as they are now ?

Mr. Incognito · 22-01-2009 3:53pm

You must be joking.

Who picks the players?

Who decides who is "class" or not.

This isn't premier league manager with the stats beside them.

Only the cream of the crop rise to the top.

Mouriniho is a top manager because he is meticulous in his preperation and execution.

As are all the top managers.

This is quite possible the stupidest most irrelevant thread I have EVER read on Boards.

There is no way to back up that assertion. None, and you might as well delete it now or expect 20 pages pilloring you.

redout · 22-01-2009 3:57pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You must be joking.

Who picks the players?

Who decides who is "class" or not.

This isn't premier league manager with the stats beside them.

Only the cream of the crop rise to the top.

Mouriniho is a top manager because he is meticulous in his preperation and execution.

As are all the top managers.

This is quite possible the stupidest most irrelevant thread I have EVER read on Boards.

There is no way to back up that assertion. None, and you might as well delete it now or expect 20 pages pilloring you.

I asked was there any similarities between the two. Why should I delete it ? I am a big boy and can take whats dished out. Deleting it would only serve the purpose of showing myself being weak and afraid to take what others dish out. It would also jus serve as ammunition for others to use against me in future posts. Foolish thing to do in my opinion.

PHB · 22-01-2009 3:58pm

What in the world are you even arguing then?

The Ajax team was filled with young emerging talents many of whom were the top players in their position in their age group.

The Porto team was nowhere near as good and he still managed to win the CL.

Mourinho won the CL without class. Ajax wom it with young talent yet to emerge on the world stage. If anything, Mourinho's achievement is more impressive!

redout · 22-01-2009 4:03pm

PHB wrote: »

What in the world are you even arguing then?

The Ajax team was filled with young emerging talents many of whom were the top players in their position in their age group.

The Porto team was nowhere near as good and he still managed to win the CL.

Mourinho won the CL without class. Ajax wom it with young talent yet to emerge on the world stage. If anything, Mourinho's achievement is more impressive!

Good. I just want others opinions. Constructive criticism. Not abuse and ridiculous suggestions to delete my thread in fear of being criticised.

LuckyLloyd · 22-01-2009 4:04pm

I don't care what ****ing players you have, to go on a consecutive run of:

- win the UEFA Cup;
- win the Champions League;
- lose by the narrowest of margins to the eventual winners in the Champions League Semi Final;

While winning your domestic league each year is just an utterly phenomenal achievement.

Boggles · 22-01-2009 4:06pm

Blah, he only won the CL because a perfectly good Scholes goal was ruled offside. :rolleyes:

event · 22-01-2009 4:06pm

i really fail to see what this thread is about?

you say he wasnt a success at benfica. he managed for a managed for a massive 11 games, winning 6 and losing 2. what exactly were you expecting?

At his second job, União de Leiria he led them to their highest ever finish, quite a success for the size of them

the players you mention for the uefa cup:

Baia
Ferreira - signed by mourinho
Valente - signed by mourinho
Costinha
Deco
Carvalho
Costa - recalled from loan by mourinho
Maniche - signed by mourinho

for the next team:

McCarthy - signed by mourinho
José Bosingwa - signed by mouninho

are you saying that he has only done well when given good players?

he signed a lot of those key players.
At porto he won two leagues, a champions league, a uefa cup, the portugues league cup and proper cup in 2 and a half years. his record speaks for itself.

what exactly are you saying?

deisedevil · 22-01-2009 4:13pm

Everyone who knows me knows just how much I detest Mourinho but there's no way I can agree with the OP. Your wrong IMO, that Porto team weren't full of class, far from it. What he did with Porto was truly amazing!

redout · 22-01-2009 4:22pm

Nearly 5 years on if you look back on the champions league team of 2004 you would hardly call them a bunch of average joes now in fairness. That would be my opinion. Some very good players in there I think. What difference does it make if Mourinho brought in players or not ? I dont see how it changes what I said originally.

Smegball · 22-01-2009 4:32pm

WTF is up with this forum today :rolleyes:

Savman · 22-01-2009 4:38pm

Smegball wrote: »

WTF is up with this forum today :rolleyes:

Stupid day indeed.

LuckyLloyd · 22-01-2009 4:42pm

Smegball wrote: »

WTF is up with this forum This Month :rolleyes:

FYP

event · 22-01-2009 4:44pm

Smegball wrote: »

WTF is up with this forum :rolleyes:

tbh

Melion · 22-01-2009 4:45pm

redout wrote: »

Nearly 5 years on if you look back on the champions league team of 2004 you would hardly call them a bunch of average joes now in fairness. That would be my opinion. Some very good players in there I think. What difference does it make if Mourinho brought in players or not ? I dont see how it changes what I said originally.

Did it ever occur to you that the players were average until Mourinho got his hands on them?

Savman · 22-01-2009 4:47pm

I think it might have something to do with the fact the PL is tight this year, no one team has really looked all that spectacular. Good for the neutral because it keeps it interesting, but bad for fans of the Top 4 because you get all this playground bickering, bringing up meaningless stats and relating to former glories as if it means anything in the current climate.

GuanYin · 22-01-2009 5:01pm

Apart from the fact that the the post is an axiom. It applies to almost any manager you can think of.

Already another Thread on our esteemed Inter manager.
Closed.

GuanYin · 22-01-2009 5:01pm

Apart from the fact that the the post is an axiom. It applies to almost any manager you can think of.

Already another Thread on our esteemed Inter manager.
Closed.

Mourinho never won anything without class

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