Craft beer - Is there a PR campaign planned/ongoing?

r3nu4l

Just wondering whether the Craft Beer industry in Ireland is planning on a Craft Beer PR campaign similar to those run by CAMRA in the UK?

I'm deliberately avoiding the use of the term 'real ale' as I've realised there are some true 'real ale' bible-thumpers here but you know what I mean

Are there any proper craft beer festivals in the country? I know that the Porterhouse attend the CAMRA Cambridge real ale festivals but is there anything similar in Ireland.

In my opinion, these festivals and good PR are the only way to convince more pubs to stock craft beers, bitters and ales, even if only on a 'guest beer' status.

BeerNut

r3nu4l wrote: »

Just wondering whether the Craft Beer industry in Ireland is planning on a Craft Beer PR campaign similar to those run by CAMRA in the UK?

No. The Irish Craft Brewers' Network, aka the Irish Guild of Brewers and Maltsters, has effectively disbanded, with grumblings about who does all the work (at least according to one ex-member I spoke to). The only people do any kind of proper campaigning on behalf of Irish craft beer is us, and we have other things to do as well. A few of us would like to set up a proper beer advocacy group (more like the ones in the Netherlands and Denmark than CAMRA), but we've just not got round to it yet.

Bizarrely, this sort of campaign is being run by the big brewers: Diageo, Heineken and AB-InBev in their ridiculous Beer Naturally campaign, promoting the kinds of beers which they don't make and are only really sold in a handful of pubs and specialist retailers. I still haven't figured out what they're playing at.

r3nu4l wrote: »

Are there any proper craft beer festivals in the country?

Yes: the Franciscan Well Easter Festival on Easter Saturday and Sunday is the big one. Bord Bia ran one at Farmleigh in September last year, and hopefully will be doing so again this year.

r3nu4l wrote: »

In my opinion, these festivals and good PR are the only way to convince more pubs to stock craft beers, bitters and ales, even if only on a 'guest beer' status.

In my opinion it takes grassroots public demand at the poorly-stocked bars, and punters voting with their feet and not drinking in places with rubbish beer. The bar owners won't stock better beer unless they can see there's a demand for it. No amount of PR will convince them of that.

r3nu4l

Cheers BeerNut, good info there

BeerNut wrote: »

In my opinion it takes grassroots public demand at the poorly-stocked bars, and punters voting with their feet and not drinking in places with rubbish beer. The bar owners won't stock better beer unless they can see there's a demand for it. No amount of PR will convince them of that.

I'm not talking about PR aimed at bars/vintners, that's a waste of time. I'm talking about PR aimed at the grassroots, regular drinker.

The Wychwood breweries controversial 'What's the matter lager boy, afraid you'll taste something? campaign is an example of something that at least made the effort, personally I liked it but would like to see that expanded beyond one brewer and come from a craft beer association.

Perhaps a campaign celebrating the pubs and bars that do stock craft beer, partially/mostly funded by those pubs? I agree that voting with your feet is one of the best ways to achieve this but equally if a steady stream of people are coming in and asking for 'craft beer' then that will have some impact. Of course, having both happen works better.

The grassroots craft beer community is too small to have an impact on the vintners.

Imagine if you are the only person who comes into Pub X in a week and asks for craft beer, do you think your walking out in a storm of protest will make the manager consider stocking craft beer? I don't, not if your the only one all week!

The value of having a PR campaign aimed at Joe Public is that as Joe Public become more aware of Craft beer, Pub X might have 30 people a week asking for craft beer and maybe 10-15 of those who walk out when they here it's not stocked. That might make them think a bit more seriously about stocking it!

BeerNut

r3nu4l wrote: »

I'm talking about PR aimed at the grassroots, regular drinker.

Totally agree. A scourge of decent beer in this country is drinkers' tendency to walk up to the bar and order what they normally drink without so much as a glance at what's on offer. Barmen who get snippy if you dare to peruse the taps or peer into the fridges are a major part of this. My idea for a first campaign is "Try something different" -- encourage people, no matter where they are, to try a different beer from the usual, even if it's nothing more exotic than Erdinger or Beamish.

r3nu4l wrote: »

Perhaps a campaign celebrating the pubs and bars that do stock craft beer, partially/mostly funded by those pubs?

Those pubs already do that. It's called "advertising". I've pointed many people to the list of places you can go to drink Irish craft beer here. And I've just done it again.

r3nu4l wrote: »

Imagine if you are the only person who comes into Pub X in a week and asks for craft beer, do you think your walking out in a storm of protest will make the manager consider stocking craft beer?

Obviously not. But look at the other side: going into the same pub, week in, week out; drinking macroswill and then going home to complain to the Internet about the lack of decent beer in pubs is negative reinforcement for the big brewers and the pubs who sell their stuff. All I'm really saying is if one wants the quality and selection of beer in Ireland to improve it is wrong, hypocritical even, to regularly drink mass-market rubbish. That's all I really expect of the people who want the situation to improve -- stop drinking bad beer.

r3nu4l wrote: »

The value of having a PR campaign aimed at Joe Public is that as Joe Public become more aware of Craft beer, Pub X might have 30 people a week asking for craft beer and maybe 10-15 of those who walk out when they here it's not stocked. That might make them think a bit more seriously about stocking it!

That's great, but where does this happen? Obviously you can't run the campaign inside the pubs you're railing against. So where then? There's no way there's money in this for mass media advertising. Point of sale advertising is probably the most appropriate, except the point of sale is controlled by the very publicans whose behaviour you're trying to change.

Besides which, the Beer Naturally campaign, though it mainly avoids mentioning beers by name, is pretty much doing this. Here, at considerable expense, both Joe Public and Joe Publican are being told that there is much more to beer than the ones advertised on telly. Do you think it'll improve the availability of craft beer?

mayordenis

The problem has to be fixed with the punters before it can be fixed with the pubs/offies.

The one thing that still gets a rise out of me is when some retard is demanding no head on there pint.
Anyway this is a fiarly useless contribution from me, hope you enjoy it

Blisterman

Actually, CAMRA have a campaign to get people to demand a full pint.
The problem with most pubs is they serve beer which is one pint to the brim, so that if its served with a regular sized head, you're only getting 80-90% of a pint.

Or in other words, if you pay €5 for a pint, you're only getting €4 worth of beer.

I'm going a bit off topic here.

Perhaps a well publicised beer festival in the RDS or somewhere near Dublin City Centre, is the answer. One that will get write ups in the paper. Have all Irish microbreweries selling their wares, and have food and live music.

The Great British Beer Festival in London gets tens of thousands of punters every year.

noby

Blisterman wrote: »

Perhaps a well publicised beer festival in the RDS or somewhere near Dublin City Centre, is the answer. One that will get write ups in the paper. Have all Irish microbreweries selling their wares, and have food and live music.

That sounds exactly like the Septemberfest in Farmleigh. 2008 was the first attempt, and it appeared to be a great success, so hopefully 2009 will be bigger and better, and advertised more.

oblivious

noby wrote: »

That sounds exactly like the Septemberfest in Farmleigh. 2008 was the first attempt, and it appeared to be a great success, so hopefully 2009 will be bigger and better, and advertised more.

Its was a very good event, much better than I thought Its was going to be and a god day out fro the family.

Ironically its was held in the grounds of a company that systemically took apart local brewers

BeerNut

The ex-grounds. Still funny though.

r3nu4l

I think we are mostly in general agreement

BeerNut wrote: »

My idea for a first campaign is "Try something different" -- encourage people, no matter where they are, to try a different beer from the usual, even if it's nothing more exotic than Erdinger or Beamish.

This is exactly what's needed.

Those pubs already do that. It's called "advertising".

But I'm talking about much more than that, all that does is advertise a couple of pubs, it doesn't really address any cohesive idea. A good PR campaign takes one core message and addresses that in a very cohesive manner. I'm talking about a campaign partly funded by a number of pubs that produce their own craft beer and handled by a separate craft beer association.

All I'm really saying is if one wants the quality and selection of beer in Ireland to improve it is wrong, hypocritical even, to regularly drink mass-market rubbish. That's all I really expect of the people who want the situation to improve -- stop drinking bad beer.

Nothing wrong with that idea but unless people REALLY want something different they will stay and drink macroswill (as you call it ). This is where a powerful campaign comes in. Perhaps part of the slogan could be 'How far would you travel to try something different? Vote with your feet!' or 'Sometimes taste can only be found by using your feet'. I can see the poster images already

That's great, but where does this happen? Obviously you can't run the campaign inside the pubs you're railing against. So where then? There's no way there's money in this for mass media advertising.

There isn't money yet because you may not have looked for it. What about adverts in magazines? Off-licenses? Posters at some of the most popular bus shelters? Flyers? Distribution of leaflets with free newspapers? A bit of research and knowledge of the budget would decide which if any of these could be used.

Besides which, the Beer Naturally campaign, though it mainly avoids mentioning beers by name, is pretty much doing this. Here, at considerable expense, both Joe Public and Joe Publican are being told that there is much more to beer than the ones advertised on telly. Do you think it'll improve the availability of craft beer?

If it's done properly yes! No point in just saying 'there's other beers out there', the campaign has to be a bit more aggressive, make people want something and they will seek it out. If pubs realise that they are losing custom just because they don't have a single tap of craft beer, maybe, just maybe they will install one tap. If that tap is selling out, maybe they will install another.

I know it would be difficult, very difficult but it is possible. Simple small steps. Perhaps finding sympathetic individual landlords would be a good start, convince them to sell one craft beer. I recognise the difficulties but convincing people to walk away is the hard part, that's what needs reinforcement and the only way to do this is a good marketing/PR campaign.

BeerNut

r3nu4l wrote: »

unless people REALLY want something different they will stay and drink macroswill

Yep. The people who want something different are where it starts. I think there's a sizeable contingent of mostly young drinkers who aren't brand-loyal, who would be open to better beer (which is often cheaper than macroswill), but who mostly couldn't be bothered getting off their holes to find it, and drink Heineken and Guinness by default. The people who genuinely believe, for whatever reason, that Heineken and Guinness are good beers won't change and, frankly, it's a bit snobby to try and make them.

r3nu4l wrote: »

There isn't money yet because you may not have looked for it. What about adverts in magazines? Off-licenses? Posters at some of the most popular bus shelters? Flyers? Distribution of leaflets with free newspapers? ... I know it would be difficult, very difficult but it is possible. Simple small steps. Perhaps finding sympathetic individual landlords would be a good start, convince them to sell one craft beer.

Well, good luck with it. I'm right behind you.

oblivious

r3nu4l wrote: »

I know it would be difficult, very difficult but it is possible. Simple small steps. Perhaps finding sympathetic individual landlords would be a good start, convince them to sell one craft beer. I recognise the difficulties but convincing people to walk away is the hard part, that's what needs reinforcement and the only way to do this is a good marketing/PR campaign.

there is already the porterhouse, bull and castle to name a few new that do push it. I think the ting that is missing is even with sympathetic publicans they expert the product to want off the shelf I am not sure a lot know much of how there beers is produce

LordSutch

BeerNut wrote: »

A few of us would like to set up a proper beer advocacy group (more like the ones in the Netherlands and Denmark than CAMRA), but we've just not got round to it yet.

I have two questions for my fellow Beernuts.

Q:1 Why would we adopt a beer advocacy group similar to that in Denmark or the Netherlands? Why not adopt a similar group to the one used next door (CAMRA), I would have thought the connections were much stronger with the 'North' & Britain for all things 'Real Ale' related.

Q:2 Whats the definition of 'Craft Beer'?
I have never come across the term myself before now.

Good Thread/
Cheers 4 now.

Blisterman

Well Camra, only focus on cask ale, which, lets face it, is unlikely to take off in any major way in Ireland. Very few pubs are equipped for it.

An Irish group could focus on all types of microbrewed Irish beer, regardless of type, however it's served.

oblivious

Blisterman wrote: »

An Irish group could focus on all types of microbrewed Irish beer, regardless of type, however it's served.

Irish craft brewers do promote Irish microbrewed beer, but I should be limited to beer actually brewed in this country

r3nu4l

Indeed, also, while I do attend CAMRA events and read CAMRA's East Anglian edition of Ale magazine, I do find that there is a strong element within CAMRA that are very 'militant' in their view of what constitutes real ale. This is why I used the term Craft Beer (and indeed if you look at some of the sigs here you'll see he term in full use!) as the term 'craft beer' avoids any conflict over the 'real ale' saga that many CAMRA fanatics are so...'fanatical' about

I would hate to think that Irish people interested in craft beer would become as intransigent as some CAMRA people, especially as Irish craft beer is in its infancy (compared with the UK for example), it simply wouldn't entice too many people.

BeerNut

Camelot wrote: »

Q:1 Why would we adopt a beer advocacy group similar to that in Denmark or the Netherlands? Why not adopt a similar group to the one used next door (CAMRA)

All I care is that beer tastes good, is value for money and that there's a choice available. I could not give a flying one where its carbon dioxide comes from.

Camelot wrote: »

I would have thought the connections were much stronger with the 'North' & Britain

This has me wondering if you've ever been in a pub in Ireland It's a very different beer culture to Britain. It's much more like Denmark or the US, both of whom, IMO, make much better beer than the British.

Camelot wrote: »

Q:2 Whats the definition of 'Craft Beer'?

Where Irish beer is concerned it means beer not made by Diageo or Heineken. In general it means beer made by hand by humans without chemical enhancement or high gravity methods.

LordSutch

A 'guarded' thank you for the above :rolleyes:

Yea I have been to a Pub in Ireland etc .............

But thanks anyway.

BeerNut

My apologies for any perceived snarkiness.

Would you like to outline the strong connections you see between the beer culture in Ireland and the UK?

With Denmark and the US, you have the massive dominance of a small number of giant mega-industrial brewers, and a common perception that these suppliers represent the entirety of beer (because in pure market-share terms they basically do). Under this shadow, both countries have developed a vibrant and (best of all) innovative craft brewing industry, free of any preconceived notion of what beer should be -- just as long as it tastes great.

It has built up enough of a following in both countries that the big brewers have started to make better beers, by setting up quasi-independent craft breweries within their walls -- the likes of Coors's Blue Moon brand. In Denmark, Carlsberg even sponsor a national homebrewing competition with the winner being put into production commercially.

That, I think, will be the ultimate victory for craft beer in Ireland: when Heineken and Diageo start to offer tasty mainstream beer.

LordSutch

BeerNut wrote: »

My apologies for any perceived snarkiness.

Would you like to outline the strong connections you see between the beer culture in Ireland and the UK?

What I actually said was;
"I would have thought the connections were much stronger with the 'North' & Britain for all things 'Real Ale' related".

Admittedly the drinking culture 'as you put it' is very different from place to place in Ireland & various parts/regions of the UK, but I was thinking that there might be some kind of 'Ale' connection between Ireland & Britain seeing as so many of us visit 'next door' on such a regular basis!

Obviously one region of the UK exists on this island, and they drink Real Ale on tap.

I am just posing the question really, I do Love my Ale, & sometimes I wish I could walk into a Dublin Pub (any pub) and get a Pint

BeerNut

Camelot wrote: »

there might be some kind of 'Ale' connection between Ireland & Britain seeing as so many of us visit 'next door' on such a regular basis!

There is no ale culture in Ireland to speak of. For anyone interested in the beer market in Ireland I strongly recommend reading (or at least flicking through) the report of the Competition Authority on Heineken's takeover of Beamish & Crawford. They analysed the beer market in Ireland in considerable depth, except when they came to ale they realised that it made up far too little of the total beer market to be even worth considering. 63% of the beer consumed in Ireland is lager; 32% is stout. Take the wheat beers out of the remaining 5% and you have a negligible amount of pale ale. The decentralised mainstream ale market which has historically existed in Britain will simply never exist here. We can blame our great-grandfathers for that: they're the ones who let consolidation happen.

Camelot wrote: »

Obviously one region of the UK exists on this island, and they drink Real Ale on tap.

They don't really. It's a niche product in perhaps a dozen pubs. It is not part of the mainstream beer culture and not single one of my Northern friends and family would drink it as a matter of course. And most of them like a beer or two, I can assure you.

oblivious

Camelot wrote: »

Obviously one region of the UK exists on this island, and they drink Real Ale on tap.

Belfast is best but there are only a hand full at mostof which I think The Crown has the most hand pumps, 3-4 I think

Camelot wrote: »

I am just posing the question really, I do Love my Ale, & sometimes I wish I could walk into a Dublin Pub (any pub) and get a Pint

I do feel your pain