F1 09 predictions...

homer90

So whos going to take the manufacturer & Drivers crown in 2009 ?
And by what points ...... Just to make it interesting

amacachi

Kubica for the driver's title by 13 points.
Ferrari for Constructor's title by 4 points.

pburns

Ferrari are doing A LOT of whinging about KERS. De la Rosa has been VERY positive about the new McLaren...

Make of that what you will.

Alonso has lost weight, made complimetary noises about Ron & Lewis, seems to be on a big fitness drive and is making VERY bullish pronouncements. I think he's reaching his peak in terms of age, experience and hunger. If the car is anyway competitive I think he's ready to REALLY rock...

amacachi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I`d say you would get pretty good odds of Kubica winning the title, that said I would be quite happy if he did. Bang on bloke according to one of my mates who raced against him. Ferrari is a safe bet I think (fast forward to next year when Ill be eating my words:) )

Just going by the noises coming from Ferrari I don't think they'll be strong at the start of the season. Also, BMW have been working on the new car for a pretty long time.

Having said that, I can see Renault challenging, and McLaren obviously. Gonna be a fun year

EvilMonkey

I dont think any of the top teams will start with kers, possibly BMW will but i dont think so. Next season will be about who can adapt to the changes quickest.
I think Alonso/Renault could be quick and the BMW's will be strong too not sure which driver will be better probably kubica. Ferrari will be there or there abouts and so will McLaren. I'm going to say Ferrari will win the constructors title prob by about 10 points with both drivers finishing in the points regularly.
Who will win the driver championship i have no idea, Hamilton will be strong as will Alonso if the renault is good. Kimi will be a contender if the car suits him if not he wont and massa will be quick if he can keep his confidence.

vectra

As usual I would like to see kimi reclaim his crown and Ferrair to win constructers
BUT
I do think Alonso could battle it out to win this year and Ferrari to take Constructers
As Lightning said... Fast forward next year

FrostyJack

I'll give my prediction after the first 6 races! Anyone good win it this year with the reg changes. If I was forced to bet I'd say Kimi but my heart says Alonso...... then again BMW started development early last year also the cars could suit Hamilton, either way the first race will be the most interesting in years.

RayM

I expect Hamilton to win the Championship again. McLaren have a history of getting to grips with new rules quicker than everybody else, and a more experienced Hamilton will probably make less mistakes. Ideally, I'd like to see either Massa or Kubica win it. It's ten years since we had 4 World Champions in the sport at the same time - and in 1999, two of them (Hill and Villeneuve) were well off the pace. I find it quite exciting that, this time next year, one fifth of the starting grid could be champions/former champions, and all driving competitive cars.

tifosi 1

Kimi to win the drivers title and Ferrari to win the constructors tite.

While not a championship contenter I am looking forward to see if Mark Webber can up his game to match Vettel. He's never really had a teammate who was as good or better than him.

Funny piece of info about Kimi is that if you look at his carear he only really performs on odd years.

2001 - Did well in a Sauber
2002 - Flashes of brilliance but car let him down
2003 - 2nd in championship
2004 - 1 win in Belguim but nowhere for the rest of the season
2005 - 2nd in championship
2006 - Some poles on low fuel but barely noticable
2007 - Champion
2008 - Plenty of fast laps but too late in race
2009 - Who knows??

I know you can't really read anything into it as there were other factors but still it's quite odd.

Draupnir

Just booked a trip to the german grand prix in July, so I hope the season is competitive. I expect Alonso to be very quick and think he will win it, Ferrari for the constructors.

G-Money

For some reason I've already ruled Raikonnen out of the title hunt this year. In my mind I see the main guys as Hamilton, Massa, Alonso and Kubica challenging for the title.

Must investigate organsing a trip to Spa

vincenzolorenzo

Draupnir wrote: »

Just booked a trip to the german grand prix in July, so I hope the season is competitive. I expect Alonso to be very quick and think he will win it, Ferrari for the constructors.

Who did you book with? How much was it? I'm thinking of going as well

acer911

Ferrari for the constructors.
Massa for the title...

oneofakind32

I think BMW look like they are ahead of the game on the development. They were the fist to test the new specification wings remember.
Alonso has lost weight to make up the aditional weight of the KERS sytem in his renault. This shows he's really up for it. Its just up to renault to put a decent car under him.
The ferrari car looks amazing and they have two drivers who are potential world champions in 2009

ODD-JOB

The Renault dosent look good in this report :

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21145.html

Megabot

The Renault doesn't look good full stop! Pity.. hoping for Alonso to get his 3rd this year

Irishshin

Ferrari for constructors title.
I think Kimi will win this year. Although I can see it being a close enough battle.
Massa will be there, Alonso and possibly Kubica
I think Vettel will win a few too this year, depending on the new Red Bull.

thegoth

Picking a world champion at this early stage is a best guess excerise at most. Who knows what all the cars will be like.

One thing I do predict is that Webber will have the upper hand on Vettel. Anyone else think so ?

vectra

thegoth wrote: »

Picking a world champion at this early stage is a best guess excerise at most. Who knows what all the cars will be like.

One thing I do predict is that Webber will have the upper hand on Vettel. Anyone else think so ?

No

I dont think Webber was ever worth his salary

thegoth

Webber has been faster than all his teammates to date and should not be understimated.

I think that Vettel is still an unknown. He had on "OK" end to 2007. He had a bad start to 2008, and his teammate had a good start. Then, after around 5 races, Toro Rosa bring out the new car. Vettel loves it. His teammate hates it. From this point onwards, Vettel has the upper hand on his teammate.

So my concern is this. Was Vettels excellent 2008, actaully caused by a combination of him loving the car and his teammate hating it ? I think it might well be.

Unlike most opinions expressed here, we will know am answer by the end of November.

EvilMonkey

Will Webber get as much testing as Vettel in the new car with the dodgy leg? Webber has already said Vettel is the toughest teammate he has had in F1.
I have no idea who will be fastest and i cant wait to find out!

Oblomov

Predictions....

The flaw in the Constructors, Haikki did not give the support to the race winner, lewis.... Whereas Massa and Kimi are a much stronger pair.. so Mclaren to be more consistent with both drivers and constructors to McLaren.. Comments by some that the Mclaren is trouble free and Ferrari have been running into problems, illegal exhaust.... some one not reading the rule book...

Webber and Vettel, Vettel to give Webber some aggro and push that's what team mates are for..... getting the best out of both.... Vettel better in the wet and not recovering from a serious injury... Johnny Herbert never fully return to his best after his accident...Webber could be under a serious disadvantage.

Coulthard rates Force India and thinks they could upset one or two, but when ever has Coulthard got it right in the pre season PR stakes?

Toyota, ........ they have got to start winning or finishing higher in the points or share holders will pull the plug.

Champion driver..... any one from four with the slight advantage to two... if you can get Kimi focused ... unbeatable...... with Lewis, either outstanding , with a championship or going the opposite having won the championship... depends of the team and support... which being McLaren, very good...

EvilMonkey

Oblomov wrote: »

depends of the team and support... which being McLaren, very good...

Thats why Kimi broke Ron's heart and moved to Ferrari! :pac:

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Thats why Kimi broke Ron's heart and moved to Ferrari! :pac:

:D

Oblomov

Thats why Kimi broke Ron's heart and moved to Ferrari!

Kimi has the reputation of not being a team player, also very shrewd with his negotiating skills, the common held belief, If you shake hands with Kimi, count your fingers afterwards. ..

McLaren work very hard in creating the team ethos, but, at times, almost two teams within the one organisation. So, Kimi has become very insular, even within Ferrari, brilliant but needs constant motivation whilst being almost reclusive.

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Yea I`d agree with you, Webber is an excellent driver who has some pretty decent credentials behind him. I see the usual post of "his is a useless git was posted".

What credentials as an F1 driver has he got and where was the

"his is a useless git was posted"

I cant see that anywhere?

Oblomov

Mark Webber may be considered a driver with potenial but.. and it's a very big but, the guy is still limping from the accident.. and how soon is the first GP?

The side loading on the legs, the normal amount of padding to avoid the knee area of the leg knocking against the cockpit sides can all contribute to major disconfort.. Drivers not recovering from broken legs wear protective padding, so Webber may well be at a disadvantage in the early part of the season.

The argument as to cars, the drivers usually dial in changes to the suspension to ensure the car suits their driving style. The testing and the huge number of laps to ensure the car and driver perform to the higest level usually gets rid of glitches and any abnormalities.

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Yawn yet again I am posting a drivers results over his career.

5 wins in the FIA GT championship, Le mans, 2 top three finishes in the International F3000 series, 3rd In the Master series, 4 in the British F3, 3rd and 2nd in the British FF series and 3rd in the European FF series. All the above classes are very competitive with some top notch drivers. He has done very well for himeself and he is a competitive driver. Once again Vectra you have slated a F1 driver when you have not done any sort of research.

Mark webber started his F1 career in a very uncompetitive car (Minardi PS02) but his decent run got him a drive at Jaguar and eventually Williams. He has consistantly beaten his team mates and his experience has will benefit the likes of Vettel.

"I dont think Webber was ever worth his salary"


Maybe if you took the time to read my question PROPERLY you would not have to go anf waste your time posting PAST results.

I did ask what credentils has he got in F1


I am not concerned with other sports he ran in.

I stick by my beliefs that he has still to prove his worth.
it certainly is taking him long enough
and please dont go jmping up and down about his Minardi GIFTED result in Melbourne :rolleyes:

If everyone else finished as the should have where would he have been?

But then again
This is just you being you waiting to pounce on all my posts here

Oblomov

To be objective about Mrak Webber career in Motor racing, a very good second string driver. Obviously failing to achieve Championship winner in any of the formula listed. The Only 1st is at the Formula Ford Festival meeting, a close look at the races and results and the list achievements does not prove to be the accolade you appear to claim.

The collection of results does little to create a race winning persona, the lack of Firsts, the lack of Championship wins and lack of wins in F1 underlines the the lack of being the essential race winner. Out driving rent-a-drive paartners like Pizzonia is not the claim to fame you might expect. One season,he was in the points more often than the less hyped Nick Heidfeld, Mark only edged ahead of his team-mate when an injury sidelined the German five races before the end of the season. Webber finished the year tenth with 36 points.

Nuff Said.

Oblomov

Nice post, Lighting....

Vettels comments from the launch of the RB 5:

Sebastian Vettel has said that he wants to win and to beat new team-mate Mark Webber in 2009. The 21-year-old German was speaking to reporters at the launch of his new Red Bull Racing RB5 and said that he was feeling positive about the year to come.

“The target is to win. Obviously it’s not correct sitting here and say I am going to win the world championship. I want to, but we need to see.”

The young ace reserved judgement on the car however, until later today, when he will test it for the first time.

“We need to see how we are going, where we are in comparison to the others. I believe that the new rules could give a chance to teams like us to close the gap to the front but the favourites are Ferrari and McLaren, no doubt.’

He added that his team-mate Webber represented a challenge which he would have to meet. The Australian has a reputation for outclassing team-mates and this year has the potential excuse of cycling injuries. Vettel brushed off suggestions that his team-mate would use a lack of fitness as an excuse.

”If Mark is in the car he will be fit, if he is not fit he will not be in the car. So far, as I have spoken with him the recovery is going on well. It’s not an easy thing to handle for him but I believe he is experienced and wise enough to know if it is good for him to race.”

When asked if he wanted to beat Webber in Melbourne, Vettel replied:

”That is the target.”




It's not about knocking drivers but being realistic, some followers of F1 can only see the winners and anyone less than fourth place falls into the category of being unfit for F1. Every driver has to qualify for a super license, prove they can compete and handle a very quick motor car. OK, money is having a greater influence and sponsors are a necessary commodity within the F! driver's circle. But you dont get to that level being useless.

Oblomov

The important and , at the moment, the least considered part within the Torro Rosso/Red Bull consortinum, Adrian Newey, always a major factor in designing a race winner. His list of winners is very impressive.


Could be another surprise contender

The Force India with its technical liason with McLaren.... almost McLaren B team, and the McLaren personnel that have moved over.....

Could be a very different pattern to the 2008 season.

FrostyJack

And he won 5 races in FIA GT series which is a very challenging series.

He was carried by Bernd Schneider in those races, I watched them all live, it was like handing the car to Captain Slow in the top gear challenges. He suprised me on his arrival in F1, he has been pretty fast and very solid.

Ironbars

Its hard to say who will win but I cant see any further than Ferrari and McLaren again for next season.

BoardsRanger

Ironbars wrote: »

Its hard to say who will win but I cant see any further than Ferrari and McLaren again for next season.

Agree with the above, however i do think Vettel will see a few more podiums than he did last year!

Oblomov

So, look out for Alonso...


The world champion's best lap of 1:19.632, set with his McLaren fitted with a 2008 rear wing, was just over two tenths of a second clear of Fernando Alonso in the Renault.

With different teams employing different set-ups, not much can usefully be read into the lap times, but McLaren appeared well pleased with their week's work.

"While the opening day was briefly marred by a midday rainshower, the remainder of the programme was carried out under clear blue skies and warm sunshine, allowing the team to put some serious mileage on the new car," said McLaren in a statement likely to grate with those teams who went to Bahrain and saw two days of practice wiped out by sandstorms.

"The majority of the four days was spent finessing the new car's balance and set-up on slick tyres while also putting background miles on the KERS device – which proved largely trouble-free during all four days.

"The team carried out the majority of its running using a hybrid-spec 2008 rear wing in order to more effectively simulate expected downforce loads and will bring a raft of new components to next month's test, back in Jerez [March 1-4]."

Alonso had finished slowest on Thursday but after a number changes the Spaniard said he was pleased with the way his car is starting to drive.

"We concentrated more on set-up work today to get a better understanding of the car and make it easier to drive," he said. "The car responded well to the set-up changes we made, so I think we've found some good solutions."

Red Bull's Mark Webber drove for the second time since he suffered a broken leg while riding a bike at his own charity event in November last year. The 32-year-old Australian managed 92 laps despite an early mechanical problem.

Three teams were simultaneously testing in Bahrain where, after two days of sandstorms, Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen set the fastest lap of the week at the Sakhir circuit.

The Finn clocked 1:33.325 seconds with Toyota's Jarno Trulli 0.104 secs behind, BMW Sauber's Christian Klien posted 1:33.666.

Oblomov

Mark Webber is positive but cautious as Red Bull's 2009 car impresses the formula one world. The Australian, back at the wheel of the RB5 on Friday following his return from a broken leg earlier this week at Jerez, said the car's maiden test has gone "pretty well". But amid expert suggestions it might be a match for the McLaren, Ferrari and BMW this year, 32-year-old Webber is keeping his enthusiasm at bay.

"First impressions of the car are pretty good," he said, "We have work to do. We're not the quickest yet, but we're certainly not that slow," added Webber. "We're pretty encouraged, but it would be suicide to predict anything now."

The Adrian Newey-penned car, powered by a newly improved Renault engine, has at Jerez looked a near-match for the McLaren MP4-24, which has been fitted with a 2008-spec wing.

Webber says it is "obvious" that the McLaren "is very quick".

He was a half-second off Heikki Kovalainen's pace on Wednesday after more than a full race distance, and said he woke up the next day "feeling great" despite giving his fragile leg its toughest work-out since last November.

"We will probably tackle the rest of the winter testing as if I'm totally normal, which is very encouraging," he explained. "I discovered that I can drive at 100 per cent, which is pretty amazing, really, when you think about what I've gone through," said Webber.

Min

Toyota looking very good so far this year.

Oblomov

What the bookies think:

Driver's Championship

L.Hamilton................7/4

K Raikkonen . . . . . . .7/2

F.Massa . . . . . . . . . 4/1

F. Alonso. . . . . . . . 11/2

R.Kubica . . . . . . . . .6/1

H Kovalainen. . . . . .16/1

N Heidfeld. . . . . . . .20/1

S Vettel. . . . . . . . .25/1

M Webber 66/1

T Glock. . . . . . . . . 80/1

N Piquet . . . . . . . . 80/1

J Button . . . . . . . . 80/1

J Trulli . . . . . . . . . 80/1

N Rosberg . . . . . .100/1

S Bourdais . . . . . . 150/1

K Nakajima . . . . . .200/1

S Buemi . . . . . . . .200/1

G Fisichella.. . . . . .300/1

A Sutil . . . . . . . . .300/1


Remember, if you disagree with the odds, don't back it.. I'm the messenger not the author.

Constructor's


Ferrari . . . . . .5/4

MCLaren . . . . .6/4

BMW . . . . . . . 3/1

Renault. . . . . 10/1

Toyota . . . . .33/1

Red Bull . . . . .33/1

Wiliams. . . . . .66/1

Torro Rosso . .100/1

Force India . ..500/1

amacachi

Bookies rarely get it far wrong. Though odds don't mean a whole lot yet, lot will change before the start of the season.

BoardsRanger

I see Vettel is putting in some quick times at testing. Surely he would be worth an each way bet at his current 18-1 odds?

vectra

Oblomov wrote: »

Remember, if you disagree with the odds, don't back it.. I'm the messenger not the author.

I think it would be very difficult for the bookies to predict the top 6 this year with so many changes

Oblomov

Jerez times Sunday, 1st march

. . . DRIVER . . TEAM . . . . . . . . . .BEST . . . . . . LAPS

1 . .VETTEL . . .Red Bull Racing. . . . 1 :19.055 . . . . 87

2 . .MASSA . . . Ferrari . . . . . . . . . 1 :20.330 . . . . .63

3 . .KOBAYASHI Toyota . . . . . . . . .1 :20.699 . . . . .79

4 . .ROSBERG . .Williams . . . . . . . . .1 :21.176 . . . . .71

5 . .KUBICA . . . BMW . . . . . . . . . . 1 :21.292 . . . . .47

6 . .FISICHELLA .Force India . . . . . .1:21.584 . . . . . 31

7 . .DE LA ROSA .McLaren . . . . . . . .1:21.831 . . . . .94

8 . .PIQUET . . . .ING Renault F1 Team 1:22.011 . . .52

vectra

Oblomov wrote: »

Jerez times Sunday, 1st march

. . . DRIVER . . TEAM . . . . . . . . . .BEST . . . . . . LAPS

1 . .VETTEL . . .Red Bull Racing. . . . 1 :19.055 . . . . 87

2 . .MASSA . . . Ferrari . . . . . . . . . 1 :20.330 . . . . .63

3 . .KOBAYASHI Toyota . . . . . . . . .1 :20.699 . . . . .79

4 . .ROSBERG . .Williams . . . . . . . . .1 :21.176 . . . . .71

5 . .KUBICA . . . BMW . . . . . . . . . . 1 :21.292 . . . . .47

6 . .FISICHELLA .Force India . . . . . .1:21.584 . . . . . 31

7 . .DE LA ROSA .McLaren . . . . . . . .1:21.831 . . . . .94

8 . .PIQUET . . . .ING Renault F1 Team 1:22.011 . . .52

I saw those times but to be honest I wouldnt take much notice of them myself
Some teams are testing next years tyres while the weather is playing havoc so it is very much a case of timing the best moment to hit a good lap between the rain
Tomorw looks the same while Th. is supposed to be dry
Heres hoping so as we may get a decent look at time differences

Oblomov

All the cars and drivers in similar conditions.. Massa and Rosberg had offs.. the team weather men will be in constant touch with satellite weather forecasts so.. very similar prospects.. also the chance of some sand bagging going on..

Oblomov

These are the lap times of the day
Glock (Toyota) was the fastest in a time of 1.30.979 (89 laps),
followed by Kubica (BMW, 1.31.327, 70),
Rosberg (Williams, 1.31.451, 114),
Fisichella (Force India, 1.31.547, 54),
Vettel (Red Bull, 1.32.220, 102),
Kovalainen (McLaren, 1.33.371, 91)
and Piquet (Renault, 1.33.476, 66).

Ferrari decided to sit it out and rest.. Massa to resume tomorrow, hopefully.

vectra

Oblomov wrote: »

These are the lap times of the day
Glock (Toyota) was the fastest in a time of 1.30.979 (89 laps),
followed by Kubica (BMW, 1.31.327, 70),
Rosberg (Williams, 1.31.451, 114),
Fisichella (Force India, 1.31.547, 54),
Vettel (Red Bull, 1.32.220, 102),
Kovalainen (McLaren, 1.33.371, 91)
and Piquet (Renault, 1.33.476, 66).

Ferrari decided to sit it out and rest.. Massa to resume tomorrow, hopefully.

They were yesterdays times

These are todays times

Oblomov

Tut tut, I didn't think you cared about the times in the wet.

vectra

Oblomov wrote: »

Tut tut, I didn't think you cared about the times in the wet.

Tut Tut..
I thought you might have read about the weather conditions

The weather was much improved at Jerez on Tuesday but it made no difference to the top of the timesheet as Timo Glock again set the pace for Toyota.

The German took advantage of a low-fuel qualifying simulation run to post a best lap of 1m19.814s, edging out Ferrari’s Felipe Massa by some four-tenths of a second.

Early morning rain left the circuit damp until mid-morning, but thereafter the teams were able to get in plenty of running on slick tyres.

Oblomov

Last check was rain until Friday..

vectra

Oblomov wrote: »

Last check was rain until Friday..

You are right

After finally seeing sunshine yesterday, latest weather reports do not read well for the teams with just two days of running left at Jerez. Today's weather forecasts predict more light rain this afternoon followed by a heavy downpour overnight and yet more wet conditions tomorrow. Monday's session has already been comprimised this week as a result of poor weather.

Ironbars

Its great to see the pre-season testing as it wets the appetite for the season to come but can any real information regarding how strong or weak some teams will be in the coming year be gleemed from it.

I dont think so.

Roll on the 29th March