Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Boycotting Israeli Goods
Options
Comments
-
Lebanon - has a militia controlling the southern part (Hezbollah) and influenced by foreign powers (Iran, Syria). I would call it an “almost democracy”.
Iran – theocratic Islamic government. I wouldn’t consider a country where Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death to be a democracy anyway.
Afghanistan – An Islamic Republic
Hamas – A terrorist organization (according to Canada, EU, US, Japan, etc)0 -
munchester29 wrote: »Lebanon - has a militia controlling the southern part (Hezbollah) and influenced by foreign powers (Iran, Syria). I would call it an “almost democracy”.
Iran – theocratic Islamic government. I wouldn’t consider a country where Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death to be a democracy anyway.
Afghanistan – An Islamic Republic
Hamas – A terrorist organization (according to Canada, EU, US, Japan, etc)
Israel - Apartheid state, engaged in colonization, illegal occupations and state terrorism.
As I said if we lower the threshold, we should include those other nations.
Also, so your saying that the US didn't bring democracy to Afghanistan, then? Also, what about Iraq? You should totally inform Barack Obama of the US's huge mistake right away then.0 -
The (unelected) Israeli election commission recently prohibited two Arab polictical parties from running in future elections. One currently has 7 seats in the Knisset. That is fundamentally anti-democratic, as is its apartheid policy and the influence the military has in Israeli affairs.munchester29 wrote: »Lebanon - has a militia controlling the southern part (Hezbollah) and influenced by foreign powers (Iran, Syria). I would call it an “almost democracy”.
Hezbollah have a mandate they received through the ballot box.
"influenced by foreign powers"? Did you miss the US made warplanes and attack helicopters used to bomb schools and creches last month? That sort of infuence is fine I take it?munchester29 wrote: »Iran – theocratic Islamic government. I wouldn’t consider a country where Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death to be a democracy anyway.
Open elections take place, what is a crime is no releveance to whether a country is democratic or notmunchester29 wrote: »Afghanistan – An Islamic Republic
But still a republic. What relevance is the Islamic word?munchester29 wrote: »Hamas – A terrorist organization (according to Canada, EU, US, Japan, etc)
Part of Hames engages in violent resistance. The Paelstianian people freely elected them. And the West told them they were wrong to do so. :rolleyes:
Israel has a commercial, cultural, academic and sporting relationship with Ireland. We should use these links to try and effect change like we did with South Africa0 -
Israel - Apartheid state, engaged in colonization, illegal occupations and state terrorism.
I covered the Apartheid, colonization & illegal occupation claims before…
So, to save time and space, I’ll just comment on the Apartheid thing again - Israel is not an Apartheid state:
“Historian Benny Morris:
"Israel is not an apartheid state — rather the opposite, it is easily the most democratic and politically egalitarian state in the Middle East, in which Arabs Israelis enjoy far more freedom, better social services, etc. than in all the Arab states surrounding it.
"As to the occupied territories, Israeli policy is fueled by security considerations (whether one agrees with them or not, or with all the specific measures adopted at any given time) rather than racism “
“President Carter has frequently reiterated the point that his "use of 'apartheid' does not apply to circumstances within Israel. Regarding the title of his book Carter has said:
"It's not Israel. The book has nothing to do with what's going on inside Israel which is a wonderful democracy, you know, where everyone has guaranteed equal rights and where, under the law, Arabs and Jews who are Israelis have the same privileges about Israel. That's been most of the controversy because people assume it's about Israel. It's not.
"I've never alleged that the framework of apartheid existed within Israel at all, and that what does exist in the West Bank is based on trying to take Palestinian land and not on racism. So it was a very clear distinction.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid_wallAlso, so your saying that the US didn't bring democracy to Afghanistan, then? Also, what about Iraq? You should totally inform Barack Obama of the US's huge mistake right away then.
The US didn’t bring democracy to Afghanistan or Iraq. I called Obama, complained, and he informed me that Bush is to blame and that a shipment of democracy has just been loaded to a plane and is on its way to Iraq & Afghanistan.
Funny thing by the way – when I typed the word “Obama”, Word figured it was a spelling error, and suggested “Osama” instead…:cool:0 -
Israel insists on its citizens and Palestianians carrying ID. Your ID card is colour coded depending on your ethnicity.
There are roads only Jews are allowed drive on
There is public transport that only Jews are allowed use.
All policitcal parties must swear an oath that Israel as a Jewish state or they are banned from running.
Palestianians are forced to live behind walls to control their movement, much like banthusians in SA.
Israel is an apartheid state and we should treat it like the pariah it has become.0 -
Advertisement
-
OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »The (unelected) Israeli election commission recently prohibited two Arab polictical parties from running in future elections. One currently has 7 seats in the Knisset. That is fundamentally anti-democratic, as is its apartheid policy and the influence the military has in Israeli affairs.
The Israeli supreme court already overruled on that decision. Both parties will be part of the elections.OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »Hezbollah have a mandate they received through the ballot box.
They don’t have a mandate to initiate military operations without the Lebanese government consent. Although they are part of the Lebanese government, they are still a militia in many ways.OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »"influenced by foreign powers"? Did you miss the US made warplanes and attack helicopters used to bomb schools and creches last month? That sort of infuence is fine I take it?
There is a big difference between using equipment or funding supplied by a foreign power to defend your citizens, and actively executing a foreign power’s policy that benefits the foreign power only, and not your people.OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »Open elections take place, what is a crime is no releveance to whether a country is democratic or not
Actually, it has all the relevance in the world:
“Even though there is no universally accepted definition of 'democracy',[3] there are two principles that any definition of democracy includes. The first principle is that all members of the society have equal access to power and the second that all members enjoy universally recognized freedoms and liberties.”OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »But still a republic. What relevance is the Islamic word?
The word is there for a reason, I suggest doing a bit of reading on these forms of government and how religion comes into play in these countries.OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »Part of Hames engages in violent resistance. The Paelstianian people freely elected them. And the West told them they were wrong to do so. :rolleyes:
Israel has a commercial, cultural, academic and sporting relationship with Ireland. We should use these links to try and effect change like we did with South Africa
These boycotts don’t really help much…
“Economic sanctions certainly weakened the status quo in South Africa during the 1980s by contributing to the economic decline that the country suffered in this period. The effect should not be exaggerated, though: the mass revolts inside South Africa were the chief force making for the eventual democratization.”
http://www.aaup.org/AAUP/pubsres/academe/2006/SO/Boycott/The+SouthAfricanBoycott.htm0 -
OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »Israel insists on its citizens and Palestianians carrying ID. Your ID card is colour coded depending on your ethnicity.
Not true – Israeli Arabs carry blue ID cards, same as Israeli Jews. The Palestinians are not part of Israel, so they carry different ID cards.OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »There are roads only Jews are allowed drive on
These roads were built because Jews couldn’t drive on the regular roads used also by Palestinians, since they were constantly attacked. These roads are probably a better solution than attacking the Palestinians again and again after each such attack.OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »There is public transport that only Jews are allowed use.
Not true.OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »All policitcal parties must swear an oath that Israel as a Jewish state or they are banned from running.
Not really – they just swear an oath to Israel, same as in any other country. The country actually has Arab political parties who are against the idea of a Jewish state.OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »Palestianians are forced to live behind walls to control their movement, much like banthusians in SA.
All the restrictions on the Palestinians are for one reason only – their continued attacks against Israel.OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »Israel is an apartheid state and we should treat it like the pariah it has become.
I already shown how myself, Benny Morris & Jimmy Carter don’t consider Israel as an Apartheid state. I’m sure there are people here with more knowledge and experience than Carter & Morris though.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »I covered the Apartheid, colonization & illegal occupation claims before…
Neither "colonisation" or "illegal occupation" are claims, they are facts.munchester29 wrote: »So, to save time and space, I’ll just comment on the Apartheid thing again - Israel is not an Apartheid state:…
...but it runs the OT as a de facto 'apartheid province'. Thus no, but yes.munchester29 wrote: »The US (........)instead…:cool:
Take your red herrings to one of the (all too)many Obama threads in "US Politics".
You still haven't explained the relevance of Israels system of Government.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »I covered the Apartheid, colonization & illegal occupation claims before…
So, to save time and space, I’ll just comment on the Apartheid thing again - Israel is not an Apartheid state:
You covered nothing. Just some tired excuses. Your were proven wrong several times and you just insisted you were correct, when you were proven wrong.munchester29 wrote: »“Historian Benny Morris:
"Israel is not an apartheid state — rather the opposite, it is easily the most democratic and politically egalitarian state in the Middle East, in which Arabs Israelis enjoy far more freedom, better social services, etc. than in all the Arab states surrounding it.
"As to the occupied territories, Israeli policy is fueled by security considerations (whether one agrees with them or not, or with all the specific measures adopted at any given time) rather than racism “
The guy is wrong. Bishop Desmond Tutu (someone who knows a thing or 2 about apartheid) has called Israel an apartheid state. Also, plenty of others in the ANC have referred to it similarly. Those guys know aparthed better than anyone.munchester29 wrote: »“President Carter has frequently reiterated the point that his "use of 'apartheid' does not apply to circumstances within Israel. Regarding the title of his book Carter has said:
"It's not Israel. The book has nothing to do with what's going on inside Israel which is a wonderful democracy, you know, where everyone has guaranteed equal rights and where, under the law, Arabs and Jews who are Israelis have the same privileges about Israel. That's been most of the controversy because people assume it's about Israel. It's not.
"I've never alleged that the framework of apartheid existed within Israel at all, and that what does exist in the West Bank is based on trying to take Palestinian land and not on racism. So it was a very clear distinction.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid_wall
He still says there is apartheid, so your just back up my point.munchester29 wrote: »The US didn’t bring democracy to Afghanistan or Iraq. I called Obama, complained, and he informed me that Bush is to blame and that a shipment of democracy has just been loaded to a plane and is on its way to Iraq & Afghanistan.
So they forgot to bring democracy, oh the horror.0 -
Take your red herrings to one of the (all too)many Obama threads in "US Politics".
To be fair, I brought up the US and Obama first, as the US has apparently created 2 democracies in the Middle East and people forget to mention them for some reason, when it come to Israel being the only democracy,0 -
Advertisement
-
OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »Israel insists on its citizens and Palestianians carrying ID. Your ID card is colour coded depending on your ethnicity..
that line struck me, holy crap! (disclaimer: its just an utterance im not religious)
you think a nation that was founded after its people were made wear yellow stars, get tattooed and exterminated would learn from the experience
anyways Ive done my bit as discussed in another thread earlier my company cut ties with a company in Israel because all our staff members agreed its disgraceful what they are doing to civilians0 -
munchester29 wrote: »Not true – Israeli Arabs carry blue ID cards, same as Israeli Jews. The Palestinians are not part of Israel, so they carry different ID cards.
Israel forces Arabs to carry ID. Those cards are a different colour to make Arabs distinguishable.munchester29 wrote: »These roads were built because Jews couldn’t drive on the regular roads used also by Palestinians, since they were constantly attacked. These roads are probably a better solution than attacking the Palestinians again and again after each such attack.
Same justification the South Africans used.munchester29 wrote: »Not true.
Yes it is. Veolia are currently building a new tram system in the West Bank that only settlers will be allowed use.munchester29 wrote: »Not really – they just swear an oath to Israel, same as in any other country. The country actually has Arab political parties who are against the idea of a Jewish state..
And they have been banned from standing again....
The oath is to Israel as a Jewish nation.munchester29 wrote: »All the restrictions on the Palestinians are for one reason only – their continued attacks against Israel.
Same justification the South Africans used.munchester29 wrote: »I already shown how myself, Benny Morris & Jimmy Carter don’t consider Israel as an Apartheid state. I’m sure there are people here with more knowledge and experience than Carter & Morris though.
Benny Morris is an Israeli. What else would he say?
How do you respond to Archbishop Tutu saying it is?0 -
Neither "colonisation" or "illegal occupation" are claims, they are facts.
I already showed in a different thread how these “facts” are nothing more than opinions. You are entitled to yours.You still haven't explained the relevance of Israels system of Government.
It has the same relevance as Israel’s foreign policy has (Gaza, west bank, etc). People are suggesting to boycott a country, and yet they don’t really know much about it.
Israel is much more than the Palestinian conflict.
It is the only true democracy in the Middle East, it has helped many countries during humanitarian crisis, made great contributions to the world and the people in it - scientifically, technologically, medically, agriculturally, etc.
All the good Israel has done and is doing seems to be forgotten and I believe should be considered when boycotting suggestions are made.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »Not true – Israeli Arabs carry blue ID cards, same as Israeli Jews. The Palestinians are not part of Israel, so they carry different ID cards..
...and are treated under martial law, not Israeli civil law. Thus, a two-tier system. Part of the De Facto apartheid I referred to.munchester29 wrote: »These roads were built because Jews couldn’t drive on the regular roads used also by Palestinians, since they were constantly attacked. These roads are probably a better solution than attacking the Palestinians again and again after each such attack...
"Jews"? A strange choice of description. One might think you were trying to imply something....
They are armed settlers, living on land seized from the inhabitants, outside Israels borders. In order to protect them, yet more land has been seized from the inhabitants, thus causing yet more resentment and reason for armed resistance.munchester29 wrote: »All the restrictions on the Palestinians are for one reason only – their continued attacks against Israel. ...
Actually most restrictions in place in the West Bank are to control access in and around Israeli settlements, not Israel. Thus, the restrictions are to further control the native inhabitants and make easier the consolidation of the seized land.munchester29 wrote: »I already (.........) though.
Within Israel. However the term "apartheid" is used in connection with the OT.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »I already showed in a different thread how these “facts” are nothing more than opinions. You are entitled to yours.
They are facts. Insisting otherwise is ridiculous.munchester29 wrote: »It has the same relevance as Israel’s foreign policy has (Gaza, west bank, etc). People are suggesting to boycott a country, and yet they don’t really know much about it.
I am sure people know more than enough.munchester29 wrote: »Israel is much more than the Palestinian conflict.
It is the only true democracy in the Middle East, it has helped many countries during humanitarian crisis, made great contributions to the world and the people in it - scientifically, technologically, medically, agriculturally, etc.
Insisting that Israel is a democracy, despite the colonization, apartheid etc is ridiculous. If we are to lower the threshold for Israel, then the same should be done for Iran etc.
Israel was also Apartheid South Africa's best pal and was its best buddy, when many other nations were boycotting the odious apartheid regime.munchester29 wrote: »All the good Israel has done and is doing seems to be forgotten and I believe should be considered when boycotting suggestions are made.
Go to Gaza and tell people that. I don't see any good done in Gaza at all. I don't see any good done in the West Bank.0 -
OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »Benny Morris is an Israeli. What else would he say?
How do you respond to Archbishop Tutu saying it is?
That Benny Morris comment alone suggests you need to do a bit of research...0 -
You could boycott dates, but it would be kinda hard to get laid...0
-
Any country that uses white phosphorus in heavily-populated areas is guilty of war crimes in my book, and in most others. The reasons behind why they do that are irrelevant.
Israel used it widely the latest conflict and even used it against U.N. targets ("Did we? Sorry!)
Of course, it's legal to use to as a smoke screen so that's what they say they were doing?
How would this air-burst provide an adaquate smoke screen?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0114/csmimg/OBURN_P1.jpg
ISRAEL - WAR CRIMINALS.0 -
They are facts. Insisting otherwise is ridiculous.
I guess will have to disagree on that, and anyone else can do their own research and come to their own conclusions.Insisting that Israel is a democracy, despite the colonization, apartheid etc is ridiculous. If we are to lower the threshold for Israel, then the same should be done for Iran etc.
Same comment as above.
I’m afraid – I’m a gay woman who walks around in shorts. I would probably be killed the moment I set foot in Gaza.Go to Gaza and tell people that.0 -
Flamed Diving wrote: »You could boycott dates, but it would be kinda hard to get laid...
Random one night stands ftw then!!!!0 -
Advertisement
-
munchester29 wrote: »The Israeli supreme court already overruled on that decision. Both parties will be part of the elections.
Source? I do hope so, but the point is that someone within the Israeli power structure tried to have them banned.munchester29 wrote: »There is a big difference between using equipment or funding supplied by a foreign power to defend your citizens, and actively executing a foreign power’s policy that benefits the foreign power only, and not your people.
Which is Israel on which is Lebanonhere?munchester29 wrote: »Actually, it has all the relevance in the world:munchester29 wrote: »“Even though there is no universally accepted definition of 'democracy',[3] there are two principles that any definition of democracy includes. The first principle is that all members of the society have equal access to power and the second that all members enjoy universally recognized freedoms and liberties.”
I have no time for Iran's intolerence (I know...) but to suggest it is not a democracy because it has the death penalty or is restrictive is false.
Also, its quite surreal to see defenders of Israel deriding other countries based on religious law.munchester29 wrote: »These boycotts don’t really help much…
“Economic sanctions certainly weakened the status quo in South Africa during the 1980s by contributing to the economic decline that the country suffered in this period. The effect should not be exaggerated, though: the mass revolts inside South Africa were the chief force making for the eventual democratization.”
http://www.aaup.org/AAUP/pubsres/academe/2006/SO/Boycott/The+SouthAfricanBoycott.htm
Sanctions and boycotss helped and symbolically told the blacks in SA that they were not alone. I personally want to do my part, however small, to register my disgust at Isreal and its actions.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »I already showed in a different thread how these “facts” are nothing more than opinions. You are entitled to yours.
It has the same relevance as Israel’s foreign policy has (Gaza, west bank, etc). People are suggesting to boycott a country, and yet they don’t really know much about it.
Israel is much more than the Palestinian conflict.
It is the only true democracy in the Middle East, it has helped many countries during humanitarian crisis, made great contributions to the world and the people in it - scientifically, technologically, medically, agriculturally, etc.
All the good Israel has done and is doing seems to be forgotten and I believe should be considered when boycotting suggestions are made.
so who lives in them houses that are being built and occupied by non palestinians in the west bank?
for an "enlightened" people they sure like taking a kick out of killing people and using weapons with phosporous and depleted uranium in civilian populations
next you be saying that it was the palestinians who bombed the UN school where the UN chief recently made an address
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2009/jan/21/ban-ki-moon-gaza
@munchester you shown time and time again that you are one cold hearted person, how much are the Israeli paying you? whats your beef in this??0 -
Any country that uses white phosphorus in heavily-populated areas is guilty of war crimes in my book, and in most others. The reasons behind why they do that are irrelevant.
Israel used it widely the latest conflict and even used it against U.N. targets ("Did we? Sorry!)
Of course, it's legal to use to as a smoke screen so that's what they say they were doing?
How would this air-burst provide an adaquate smoke screen?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0114/csmimg/OBURN_P1.jpg
ISRAEL - WAR CRIMINALS.
The WP claims have been covered many times before, the best comments are in the Military forum.
Bottom line, there is still no proof that Israel used WP illegally.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »That Benny Morris comment alone suggests you need to do a bit of research...
I know who he is, but someone living and working in Isreal might not be the most impartial observer....
Tutu - what say you?0 -
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/israeli-armys-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-clear-undeniable-20090119Among the places worst affected by the use of white phosphorus was the UNRWA compound in Gaza City, at which Israeli forces fired three white phosphorus shells on 15 January. The white phosphorus landed next to some fuel trucks and caused a large fire which destroyed tons of humanitarian aid.
Prior to this strike, the compound had already been hit an hour earlier and the Israeli authorities had been informed by UNRWA officials and had given assurance that no further strikes would be launched on the compound.
In another incident on the same day a white phosphorus shell landed in the al-Quds hospital in Gaza City also causing a fire that forced hospital staff to evacuate the patients.
your Israeli buddies attacked a hospital and UN compound with this stuff ...0 -
munchester29 wrote: »Iran – theocratic Islamic government. I wouldn’t consider a country where Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death to be a democracy anyway.
Plenty of western nations had the death penalty, I believe homosexuality has also been illegal in many enlightened nations until comparatively recent times. My point is, don't confuse a countries system of government with its $hitty rules.
All said though, I'd hardly compare Iran to Israel. Universal suffrage ftw.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »I guess will have to disagree on that, and anyone else can do their own research and come to their own conclusions.
What I said, were still facts. There is an occupation, there is colonization. Those clearly exist. You denying what is clearly there doesn't change that they are there.munchester29 wrote: »Same comment as above.
Again, you are lowering the threshold for democracy, I have given plenty of examples why this is so. You just straight out deny them and nothing else.munchester29 wrote: »I’m afraid – I’m a gay woman who walks around in shorts. I would probably be killed the moment I set foot in Gaza.
Yeah, Israeli bombardments can be really dangerous.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »I already showed in a different thread how these “facts” are nothing more than opinions. .
I'm sure in your own mind you did. However I've seen nothing to suggest that I'm wrong.munchester29 wrote: »It has the same relevance as Israel’s foreign policy has (Gaza, west bank, etc). People are suggesting to boycott a country, and yet they don’t really know much about it.
Israel is much more than the Palestinian conflict.
It is the only true democracy in the Middle East, it has helped many countries during humanitarian crisis, made great contributions to the world and the people in it - scientifically, technologically, medically, agriculturally, etc..
...so by doing good and being a "democracy" you can build up Brownie points. Then when you do something bad, say for over 4 decades, you can cash them in against that.....This truly is a unique idea. I'm just amazed nobody here has come out with it when up for burgalry and the like......certainly it would help with overcrowding in the prisons.0 -
munchester29 wrote: »
I’m afraid – I’m a gay woman who walks around in shorts. I would probably be killed the moment I set foot in Gaza.
much more likely to step on an unexploded cluster bomb or catch dystentry from the water supply that was targetted to be fair.0 -
Advertisement
-
Advertisement