Boycotting Israeli Goods

Duiske

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

if the latter is the case the number of people here supporting this would be throwing out thier pc`s (Intel and other chips for soundcards etc )

True, there are 2 Intel wafer fabs in Israel, but all the chips do not come from Israel. They also have 7 other fab facilities. The one in Leixlip, and 6 in the states.

oscarBravo

tallaght01 wrote: »

surely a boycott thread being left open doesn't imply that you agree with it?

Maybe you missed my point. To keep the thread firmly on-topic I would have to require that people only discuss ways of boycotting Israeli products, and prevent people from arguing against such a boycott. Once I allow an argument over whether or not a boycott is justified, I have a rehash of the other thread.

Unless I see a compelling reason otherwise pretty soon, I'll be merging this thread into the other one.

IRISH RAIL

oscarBravo wrote: »

Maybe you missed my point. To keep the thread firmly on-topic I would have to require that people only discuss ways of boycotting Israeli products, and prevent people from arguing against such a boycott. Once I allow an argument over whether or not a boycott is justified, I have a rehash of the other thread.

Unless I see a compelling reason otherwise pretty soon, I'll be merging this thread into the other one.

I agree with a merge

tallaght01

oscarBravo wrote: »

Maybe you missed my point. To keep the thread firmly on-topic I would have to require that people only discuss ways of boycotting Israeli products, and prevent people from arguing against such a boycott. Once I allow an argument over whether or not a boycott is justified, I have a rehash of the other thread.

Unless I see a compelling reason otherwise pretty soon, I'll be merging this thread into the other one.

But the threas is called "boycotting Israeli goods". Can it not be a general discussion. Do we need to have what we talk about pigeonholed?

Doesn't really bother me, as I've no strong opinions on it. I just think it's weird, so I won't be hanging about. But i'm just curious about the logic, as conversation is dynamic.

tallaght01

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You are making an assumption that me supporting a boycott of Israel means I don't boycott other things, in this case sweat goods. Its not zero sum, why can't I do both?

Boycotting sweat shop products is a stand against the idea of mass manufacturing in harsh conditions for peanuts wherever they are.

This campaign is specific to a trading partner of Ireland whose behaviour has crossed a line for many. The last time a country treated its citizens in such a manner was South Africa, and the idea is to try and repeat the co-ordinated objections to that.

Hey, maybe you do boycott sweat shop good. I doubt it, though.

I'm not having a go at you, I just never see threads asking people to boycott Chinese goods, or Sudanese goods (I've no idea what sudan exports, apart from fuel).

But you get the point. I'm just wondering why palestinian kids are worth more than kids in other countries.

IRISH RAIL

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

you asked me did I get the story from "wehateisrael.org". I selected a story from the hundreds google threw up via a simple search with an Irish interest. Specifically Irish tram drivers refusing to train drivers of a route that non-settlers would be prohibited from using.

This debate was cordial and interesting, so far you are the only person who has resorted to this kind of nonsense.

where should I start on that
firstly If you put in a google search saying oh lets say "Irish luas drivers refuse to train Israelis" you will see the first page is full of left wing nonsence blogs reporting this no independant sources on the first two pages and if you keep looking you will see theres not hundreds
asking you (which I didnt) where you got the source is not saying you hate Israel surely you can see that.
non settlers can use the route its there to make money just like non sttelers and anyone else in the country can use any bus taxi or train. that whole story is complete rubbish.

you say the debate was cordial and Interesting and I am the only one who resorted to this kind of nonscence would that nonsence be seeing thru your post and refuting it ?

RDM_83

To keep this on topic and because I believe that if this occured it would greatly change the Israeli attitude (to the already uneconomic settlements and land grabs)
But what would be the best way to lobby the EU to revoke or rewrite the EU-Israeli free trade agreements so that they can be linked to israel showing restraint and not " going wild"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/netanyahu-casts-himself-as-player-on-a-world-stage-1334258.html

ps no mentions of the Lisbon please its not in yet and the direct democracy area of it was very weak indeed anyway so couldn't see it making much difference

Zionist

BMurr wrote: »

It loks like my original posting under the consumer issues thread may be considered by some to be misplaced so here it is in the political forum.

I for one have had enough of seeing Israel bully their neighbours in Gaza, treating them as if they were some sort of subhuman species, killing such large numbers of children etc. People were equally disgusted with the apartheid system in South Africa and the general boycotting of all things south african gave the powers there no choice other than to pay attention to what the world felt about what they were doing and to change their practices. Today while buying some organic dates in a well known organic outlet here in Cork I realised that the dates were from Israel and it irritated me to think that I might be supporting some self righteous Zionist folk. I have decided to pay more attention to the source of my goods from now on and to avoid buying Israeli stuff. Are others considering doing likewise, or are there other ideas around as to how we the ordinary consumer can make a dfifference to this situation??

Here's one for you,

Lets boycott goods from the following terrorist nations instead of a democratic nation taking to task terrorists :

1. Saudi Arabia - Most of the 9/11 bombers came from here, they fund most of the Islamic terrorist activities worldwide.
2. Iran, an Uber terrorist state hell bent on another holocaust and denial of all human rights to non muslims
3. Syria - A terrorist nation as Iran who sponsers terrorists eg. hamas,hizbollah..
4. Pakistan - another terrorist state and founders of the taliban

Anyone who thinks a boycott of Israeli goods is general a well healed D4 "oh yah" daddies got a beamer moron or some left wing fanatic backed by again terrorists "Sinn Fein"...

Also in Israel you have the right of freedom of speech and to criticise the government in all of the above countries you would either be killed or jailed and tortured for a long time........."ISLAM THE PEACEFUL RELGION":rolleyes:

ionix5891

@Zionist a new user who registered today and with a name like that and one has to wonder :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yea why not boycott them as well? tho admittedly however messed up these countries you listed are i don't seem them bombing other countries or doing as bad as evil as Israel is doing

to give an analogy

just because you have a couple of wackos living your neighbourhood doesnt mean it allows you (Zionist Israel) to burn down the neighbour living in your shed (who you evicted there from the house you live in now)

.

billy the squid

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You are making an assumption that me supporting a boycott of Israel means I don't boycott other things, in this case sweat goods. Its not zero sum, why can't I do both?

Boycotting sweat shop products is a stand against the idea of mass manufacturing in harsh conditions for peanuts wherever they are.

This campaign is specific to a trading partner of Ireland whose behaviour has crossed a line for many. The last time a country treated its citizens in such a manner was South Africa, and the idea is to try and repeat the co-ordinated objections to that.

Who'll be the first to feel the effect of your boycott. Those ordinary joe soaps manufacturing the goods of course.

Also a boycott is pretty pointless when you have no alternative to replace the items you are boycotting.

Zionist

ionix5891 wrote: »

@Zionist a new user who registered today and with a name like that and one has to wonder :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yea why not boycott them as well? tho admittedly however messed up these countries you listed are i don't seem them bombing other countries or doing as bad as evil as Israel is doing

to give an analogy

just because you have a couple of wackos living your neighbourhood doesnt mean it allows you (Zionist Israel) to burn down the neighbour living in your shed (who you evicted there from the house you live in now)

.

The Large Majority of Israeli Citizens are not Zionist and a large majority of Jews are not Zionists so your point is...

Also to be a Zionist you don't actually have to be Jewish you can actually be an Arab or Korean and be a Zionist :cool:

sovtek

wes wrote: »

So Israel is hardly innocent, when it comes to terrorism.

Israel was founded by terrorists known as the Stern Gang.

Jack Bauer999

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0112/israelboycott.html


Klein: Treat Israel like apartheid SA
Monday, 12 January 2009
Jewish author Naomi Klein has called for a worldwide boycott of Israel using measures similar to those used during apartheid in South Africa.

This weekend in both the Guardian newspaper and The Nation newspaper, Klein wrote: 'The best strategy to end the increasingly bloody occupation is for Israel to become the target of the kind of global movement that put an end to apartheid in South Africa.'

Boycotting Israel is not a new idea.

Two years ago, South Africa's leading labour union and its Jewish Intelligence Minister Ronnie Kasrils supported a plan for their country to boycott of Israel.

And Naomi Klein acknowledged in her article the Palestinian campaign Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) for putting together a comprehensive plan.

She then responded to common criticism of that plan including 'punitive measures will alienate rather than persuade Israelis', 'Israel is not South Africa', 'why single out Israel when the United States, Britain and other Western countries do the same things in Iraq and Afghanistan?' and 'boycotts sever communication; we need more dialogue, not less'.

Most of the more than 600 comments to the Guardian website version of her article expressed support for her idea, although some were sceptical whether the US, Germany and other large economies would go along.

Others said they already boycott Israeli products, particularly fruit & veg, often found under the brand name Jaffa.




does this mean Jaffa cakes are off the menu!!

tolteq

Hamas big wolf
Israel bigger wolf

bigger wolf eat little wolf

wolf stupid.

how to stop bigger wolf

get an even bigger wolf. lets make a big wolf and eat smaller wolf israel.

little wolf run free.

luckat

I don't know how effective such a boycott is, in the end. Aren't most of the vegetables and fruit, for instance, grown by Palestinians?

This footage might straighten out people's thinking about the rights and wrongs of the Gaza attacks:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7846325.stm

Capt'n Midnight

concussion wrote:

A Norweigan doctor reported that some of the wounded had been injured by depleted uranium - that was at the start of January and there has been no mention since. Compounding that is the fact that you would need a laboratory to confirm the presence of uranium - there was no analysis mentioned in the article and I imagine such detailed work would be difficult to do in Gaza.

A very soft inflamable metal that's twice as heavy as lead and could fog photographic film.
urannium salts are brightly coloured so any school lab would help rule out other metals.

it might also be Tungsten as it is also twice as heavy as lead but is a little harder and doesn't burn.

Capt'n Midnight

munchester29 wrote:

Iran – theocratic Islamic government. I wouldn’t consider a country where Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death to be a democracy anyway.

recent link please , they pay for transgender surgery and unlike here will change your birth cert

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran

Khomeini's original fatwa has since been reconfirmed by the current Supreme Leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and is also supported by many other Iranian clerics.[3] However, there is still a great deal of stigma attached to the idea of transsexuality and gender reassignment in ordinary Iranian society, and most transsexuals, after completing their transition, are advised to maintain discretion about their past. Once a transgender individual has undergone gender reassignment, that person legally becomes the proper gender - male, in the case of transgender men, and female, in the case of transgender women. All legal documents, such as birth certificates and passports, are also changed accordingly.

Hojatoleslam Kariminia, a mid-level cleric who is in favor of transgender rights, has stated that he wishes "to suggest that the right of transsexuals to change their gender is a human right" and that he is attempting to "introduce transsexuals to the people through my work and in fact remove the stigma or the insults that sometimes attach to these people."[4]

UNHCR's 2001 report says that sex reassignment surgery is performed frequently and openly in Iran, and that homosexual and crossdressing people would be safe as long as they keep a low profile.[5] However, the Safra Project's 2004 report considers UNHCR's report over-optimistic. The Safra Project's report suggests that UNHCR underestimated legal pressure over LGBT.

Capt'n Midnight

CJhaughey wrote: »

If you want to identify Israeli goods all the bar codes start with 729.

http://loftware.wordpress.com/2008/11/04/gs1-barcode-coo-confusion-continues-to-abound/

The rule is that the company should register in the country where their corporate headquarters is. However because of mergers, buyouts etc one cannot really rely on the company prefix to tell the country of origin of the product
...
This has come up as a topic from a blog post we did awhile back on a fellow in Malaysia with a tainted milk product he knows was made in China but the manufacturer used a Philippine-registered manufacturer ID. This may have been done by the manufacturer to avoid the current storm around generally tainted Chinese dairy.

Look at the goods you have at home, tell me if you can easily distinguish Irish and UK goods correctly ?
50 e.centre gb
539 EAN Ireland ie

sceptre

Guys, I've had to clean out argumentative personal crud out of this thread. It's resulted in a number of warnings, infractions and a temp banning because of similar crud on another thread.

I would suggest strongly that people read oscarBravo's request and abide by it. This is not your playground.

Capt'n Midnight

IRISH RAIL wrote:

deleting there anti virus software and firewalls
not to forget voicemail tehnology.
...
better start by turning off your computers some of it was made in Israel

http://www.countercurrents.org/abunimah051108.htm

What is less well-known is that AT&T and Verizon handed "the bugging of their entire networks -- carrying billions of American communications every day" to two companies founded in Israel. Verint and Narus, as they are called, are "superintrusive -- conducting mass surveillance on both international and domestic communications 24/7," and sifting traffic at "key Internet gateways" around the US.

Virtually all US voice and data communications and much from the rest of the world can be remotely accessed by these companies in Israel, which Bamford describes as "the eavesdropping capital of the world."

Basically they can listen to stuff the FBI aren't allowed to.

I would be shocked to find out that there wern't backdoors in their voicemail and security products for the Mossad to use. But don't worry , your filewall will stop them :pac:

paulaa

I looked and I don't think this link has been posted here

"Farmers claim UK, Jordan boycotting Israeli fruit

Fruit growers disappointed by canceled orders from abroad, leaving produce to rot in warehouses
Yair Hason

Fruit growers in Israel have reported delays and reductions in orders from abroad since the military operation in Gaza was launched, due to various boycotts against Israeli produce.


Email distributed in recent days calls on Israelis not to visit Turkey due to its objection to Gaza operation, includes picture documenting anti-Israel racism. Only problem is photo was taken three years ago
Full Story
Farmers say much of their produce is being held in warehouses due to canceled orders, and fear a sharp decrease in fruit exports to countries such as Jordan, Britain, and the Scandinavian countries.


"We export persimmons, and because of the fighting a number of countries and distributors are canceling orders," Giora Almagor, of the southern town of Bitzaron, told Ynet. He said some of the produce had already been shipped while some was awaiting shipment in warehouses." (continued)


http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3656454,00.html

Nodin

A widespread boycott, whatever its inconsistencies and failings, has the effect of raising awareness of the issues. Therefore, even if its of minimum effectivness in terms of economic impact, its worth pursuing.

OhNoYouDidn't

Jack Bauer999 wrote: »

does this mean Jaffa cakes are off the menu!!

As a total aside, Jaffa Cakes are made with apricot. :eek:

OhNoYouDidn't

tallaght01 wrote: »

Hey, maybe you do boycott sweat shop good. I doubt it, though.

I'm not having a go at you, I just never see threads asking people to boycott Chinese goods, or Sudanese goods (I've no idea what sudan exports, apart from fuel).

But you get the point. I'm just wondering why palestinian kids are worth more than kids in other countries.

Its a fair point at one level. But are you saying I shouldn't take a stand on this because I havent publically taken a stand on every other issue?

I try to avoid buying Chinese goods over Tibet, but it is a difficult task. We have no meaningful commercial relationship with Sudan.

Isreal professes to be a western democratic state yet has an apartheid structure and unleashes savage collective punishment on the Palestianians. I am disgusted my these actions and will not spend my hard earned cash supporting the economy of this pariah state> I am not alone and there is a growing call for cultural and economic sanctions until Isreal begins to behave like a civililised country.

Serenity Now!

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Its a fair point at one level. But are you saying I shouldn't take a stand on this because I havent publically taken a stand on every other issue?

No, they're saying, for example, you're "taking a stand" about human rights whilst wearing clothes most likely made/stitched in East Asia (no, not necessarily China either) by poorly paid (if at all) folk in sh*thouse conditions.

OhNoYouDidn't

Zionist wrote: »

Here's one for you,

Lets boycott goods from the following terrorist nations instead of a democratic nation taking to task terrorists :

The campaign as highlighted by Naomi Klien predates the latest slaughter by the IDF and refers more to the institutional racism of modern Israel.

Zionist wrote: »

1. Saudi Arabia - Most of the 9/11 bombers came from here, they fund most of the Islamic terrorist activities worldwide.
2. Iran, an Uber terrorist state hell bent on another holocaust and denial of all human rights to non muslims
3. Syria - A terrorist nation as Iran who sponsers terrorists eg. hamas,hizbollah..
4. Pakistan - another terrorist state and founders of the taliban

None of the above profess to be a capitalist democracy, and Saudi oil aside (and I cant trace petrol at the pumps) we have no meaningfull commercial relationship with those nations. We do with Israel and as with South Africe there is a chance that a concerted campaign can create change and force Israel to behave in an acceptible manner to the indigenous population.

Zionist wrote: »

Anyone who thinks a boycott of Israeli goods is general a well healed D4 "oh yah" daddies got a beamer moron or some left wing fanatic backed by again terrorists "Sinn Fein"...

Which one of those is Naomi Klien? Grow up.

Are SF even supporting the BIG campaign? Will have to check

Zionist wrote: »

Also in Israel you have the right of freedom of speech and to criticise the government in all of the above countries you would either be killed or jailed and tortured for a long time........."ISLAM THE PEACEFUL RELGION":rolleyes:

Thats why Israel banned two arab policitcal parties was it?

The issue is not what happens so much in Israel, but what Isreal does to population of the occupied territories

OhNoYouDidn't

Serenity Now! wrote: »

No, they're saying, for example, you're "taking a stand" about human rights whilst wearing clothes most likely made/stitched in East Asia (no, not necessarily China either) by poorly paid (if at all) folk in sh*thouse conditions.

Well as far as I can I am not, but even of I was, I'm asking does that preclude me from taking a stand on Israeli apartheid and state murder?

Serenity Now!

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Well as far as I can I am not, but even of I was, I'm asking does that preclude me from taking a stand on Israeli apartheid and state murder?

Of course it doesn't. You care about Gazans but not about the person who probably stitched your clothes. Thats fine, by me.

Embargoes and Boycotts at the level people are talking here affect sweet f**k all. Its a drop in the ocean.

What broke Sth Africa was the threat of foreign industry pulling out of it (BMW/Philips/GEC) and that's the only change that would affect Israeli policy. 'Big Money'. Sharpeville? Nobody batted an eyelid. Leaders detention or disappearances? Zilch.
Since Big Money and Israel involves the US and EU this would never happen. They value the markets that their competitors Russia and China can't get their hands on, both strategically and of course, fiscally. Sure ban the fruit and all that malarkey. Like here, the farmers/producers will be subsidised by the govt.

Also if you're pinning your hopes on Obama to do something, you must have missed his previous speaking on the Middle East. Irish government? Don't make me laugh. The EU? Fat chance.

OhNoYouDidn't

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Of course it doesn't. You care about Gazans but not about the person who probably stitched your clothes. Thats fine, by me.

Why do you assume I don't care about who stitched my clothes?

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Embargoes and Boycotts at the level people are talking here affect sweet f**k all. Its a drop in the ocean.

Yes, but it has to start somewhere. Better to have tried and failed than have stood idely by.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

What broke Sth Africa was the threat of foreign industry pulling out of it (BMW/Philips/GEC) and that's the only change that would affect Israeli policy. 'Big Money'. Sharpeville? Nobody batted an eyelid. Leaders detention or disappearances? Zilch.
Since Big Money and Israel involves the US and EU this would never happen. They value the markets that their competitors Russia and China can't get their hands on, both strategically and of course, fiscally. Sure ban the fruit and all that malarkey. Like here, the farmers/producers will be subsidised by the govt.

We will see. But at the moment the campaign is about raising awareness and its working.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Also if you're pinning your hopes on Obama to do something, you must have missed his previous speaking on the Middle East. Irish government? Don't make me laugh. The EU? Fat chance.

I wouldn't pin my hopes on Obama (on this or most things, I think people are building him up too much, but thats another thread) but at least you acknowldge that something needs to be done.

Serenity Now!

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Why do you assume I don't care about who stitched my clothes?

I see no threads (non pun intended) or boycotts demanding action against the firms and countries who abuse slave/child labour.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Yes, but it has to start somewhere. Better to have tried and failed than have stood idely by

Akin to being satisfied with a letter to an editor. Hmmm...they're going to be well rattled.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

We will see. But at the moment the campaign is about raising awareness and its working

In one month, this 'awareness' will be bottom of barrel. Same as before.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I wouldn't pin my hopes on Obama (on this or most things, I think people are building him up too much, but thats another thread) but at least you acknowldge that something needs to be done.

Something needs to be done? Israel will never give up the Golanim because of where it is and will definitely never let themselves be restricted by Jordan to a single alleyway again at the western wall in Jerusalem. Hamas will never accept post Six Days War borders and still refuses to call Israel by its name (Yehuda means Jews, not Israel).
The vicious circle continues. How do you get both sides to cede on the obvious problems? Answer: As long as these two issues remain, you won't for many many reasons that have been discussed to death in these forums.

If only Nasser & Co had not been so foolish, arrogant and bloodthirsty in 1967, the Zionist movement would not have conslidated itself thus regaining such a foothold in Israel and the previous occupiers of the rest of Palestine (Egypt, Syria, Jordan) would not have lost all that land in the region