Is it time the irish went home

GuanYin

pepsicokeacola wrote: »

no no of course we are not. that is why 45 milliom claim to be of irish descent when clearly clearly that doesnt even add up. how can a few million result in 45 million, while massive amount of germans immigration and only have about 5 million more people claiming to be of german ancestry as of the 2000 census.

It must be a fading importance, because the 2007 census has the number at 36 million.

Did 9 million die in 7 years?

edit-

Look, they're here illegally, they're taking jobs away from people who are legally here, they don't pay taxes.

They're criminals and they should be treated as such.

seanybiker

ha ha great thread. Yes they should be sent home. Simple as

asdasd

Did 9 million die in 7 years?

No. Americans will often claim the most "exotic" ancetory, and tend not to see Anglo-Saxon ( which most, or very many of them are) as a category, so if they are mostly of English decent, and only some Irish they claim Irish. German ethnicity became problematic during the first world war, and more problematic during the second, so less people claimed German if they had some other ethnic group.

Added to that the Scots Irish - whose cultural baggage is mostly British - jumping in as Irish and the Irish population is clearly over-estimated. The 9 million deficiet might be Irishness losing it's charm.

Permabear

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Chuck the Buck

Chuck the Buck wrote: »

But when it comes down to it the reason, I believe, that the Govt are interested in this is because of the total free and terror they are in that there could be 50,000 more unemployed landing over here - the vast majority, if not all, of them are low educated/skilled, the type of jobs that nolonger exist in this country.

I'm not too sure about that. I would have thought that the issue would be too unpopular to tackle for any American politician. Sure they've always got the mexican illegals to bother.

GuanYin

asdasd wrote: »

No. Americans will often claim the most "exotic" ancetory, and tend not to see Anglo-Saxon ( which most, or very many of them are) as a category, so if they are mostly of English decent, and only some Irish they claim Irish. German ethnicity became problematic during the first world war, and more problematic during the second, so less people claimed German if they had some other ethnic group.

Added to that the Scots Irish - whose cultural baggage is mostly British - jumping in as Irish and the Irish population is clearly over-estimated. The 9 million deficiet might be Irishness losing it's charm.

Well I knew there wasn't a drop in 9 million I was being facetious

Feelgood

donegalfella wrote: »

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Thats were you and me differ, I would expect anyone who is sick to have their illnesses seen too and treated no matter what country they are in and regardless of immigration laws...

Permabear

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The Corinthian

Feelgood wrote: »

Corinthian I think you are picking Pepsi and myself up wrong here, when we say built we actually mean built as in physically built with cement, bricks and mortar!.

As has already been pointed out, the Irish were only one of numerous groups who 'built' America.

Why are we wasting our time discussing this? Even if it were true, the Irish who helped build America became Americans. The Irish who stayed in Ireland and their descendants who reckon ought to benefit from this, did Jack shìt.

Fratton Fred

Feelgood wrote: »

I actually think the Irish SHOULD be given preferential treatment to be honest.

Look at the history of the Irish in America, sure we more or less built the bloody place!.

So the Polish should be given preference ir Ireland then?

asdasd

So the Polish should be given preference ir Ireland then?

building a few shoddy shoebox appartments for themselves to live in, and then ****ing off home is not the same as building the railroads.

Serenity Now!

asdasd wrote: »

building a few shoddy shoebox appartments for themselves to live in, and then ****ing off home is not the same as building the railroads.

What about if they slaughtered the natives?
The Chinese built the railroads in the States, by the way.

asdasd

Serenity Now! wrote: »

What about if they slaughtered the natives?
The Chinese built the railroads in the States, by the way.

Did the Chinese slaughter the natives, too? Or is that kind of ahistorical ****e reserved for paddys by sleveen halfwits?

The Chinese were amongst the people who built the railroads, along with the Irish. It was a predominatly European/ irish working classes who built the railroads...

Serenity Now!

asdasd wrote: »

Did the Chinese slaughter the natives, too? Or is that kind of ahistorical ****e reserved for paddys by sleveen halfwits

Now, now.
Have a read of 'Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee' as an example before you startslamming what obviously irks you. When you've finished that, then read up on some Aboriginal history in Australia (anything by Jamison will do on that subject).

asdasd

Have a read of 'Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee' as an example before you startslamming what obviously irks you. When you've finished that, then read up on some Aboriginal history in Australia (anything by Jamison will do on that subject).

Retract your blood libel.

I think you are confusing Irish with our Anglo Saxon friends. Or indeed Germans. As we discussed earlier in this thread the irish were not the colonizers of the American heartland - they went to the cities. By the time the Irish Catholics arrived in 1840 the previous colonizers had already done their job. The State actors responsible for these very real genocides were - quite clearly - the USA and the British Empire.

EDIT; And, of course, the colonization and plantation of the US mirrored the near genocide of the Irish, and by the same people.

Serenity Now!

asdasd wrote: »

Retract your blood libel

Oh ffs :rolleyes:

asdasd wrote: »

I think you are confusing Irish with our Anglo Saxon friends. Or indeed Germans. As we discussed earlier in this thread the irish were not the colonizers of the country - they went to the cities. by the time the Irish Catholics arrived in 1840 the previous colonizers had already done their job. The State actors responsible for these very real genocides were - quite clearly - the USA and the British Empire.

Happy reading then, fella. Like I suggested, give it a go.

asdasd

appy reading then, fella. Like I suggested, give it a go.

I think I know the history of the US. I gave it to you. The American project was an Anglo Saxon project. Irish Catholics arrived after most of the genocides, and went to the cities. The project to decimate the Original population was primarily - like Grant and Amherst - Anglo Saxon, and Scoth Irish ( our Ulster friends).

Might as well blame Jews as Irish, since both followed the same immigration pattern - to the cities.

K-9

asdasd wrote: »

building a few shoddy shoebox appartments for themselves to live in, and then ****ing off home is not the same as building the railroads.

Hardly there fault if they where shoddy?

You sure they all going home?

sceptre

Folks, you're bouncing around mostly cruddy posts for about the last page that add nothing in the way of discussion and have very little to do with the thread topic except for fanning your own egos on how well you think you know things.

I expect something of a better standard if I'm going to leave this open. Yes, I'm unfortunately driven to being condescending and saying your posts are irrelevant rubbish and a waste of electrons. Please do better.

Benedict XVI

Firstly I think the Letter from Sean O Neachtain was hilarious

I love the way he says that

'PRESIDENT Obama must bring forward initiatives to help to legalise the undocumented and illegal Irish in America.

Obama must do everything that is right for America and that may or may not involve immigration reform.

I lived in Boston for 6 years between 96 and 02
During that time I meet loads of illegal Irish, most had come over in the mid 90s and earlier.
As the economy picked up in Ireland the number of illegals coming over became less and less, and a lot of illegals who and been there 5 and 6 years were now heading home to the good economy.

I feel sorry for the illegals who have been there since the mid 90s if they had to come home. They have been gone for so long that adjustment to life at home may be difficult, particularly now in a slumping economy.

I also believe that they should not be given any preferential treatment in any immigration reform, they are no different to any other nationality that are illegal in the US.

I also learned while I was there that the Irish did not actually build America as I though, it was built by everyone.

The Corinthian

asdasd wrote: »

It was a predominatly European/ irish working classes who built the railroads...

Who remained in America and became citizens, and so did their descendants.

How this gives any rights to people who never went, who never built anything, and their descendants is beyond me.

The line of logic being employed by those who believe that illegal immigration on the part of Irish citizens - today - should be forgiven and legitimized is bizarre. Especially in light of contradictory arguments towards illegal immigrants in Ireland.

The illegal Irish in the US have nothing to do with the rail roads. They didn't build them and neither did their ancestors. End of.

Serenity Now!

Illegal immigrants are illegal immigrants full-stop. The Irish person staying beyond a visa has no more rights than any other nationality who has done the same. If caught, they should be sent home.

It really is that simple. No sanctimonious bilge about their descendants or the great famine will change that.

The Corinthian

Serenity Now! wrote: »

No sanctimonious bilge about their descendants or the great famine will change that.

And even if it did, we are not their descendants and the US have no responsibility for the famine.

asdasd

No sanctimonious bilge about their descendants or the great famine will change that.

I am in favour of the illegal Irish being sent home. As a fan of closed borders why would I not be. The famine I mentioned to point out that Ireland was subjected to a loss of population, caused by imperialism, in response to your ahistorical and blood libelous claim that Irish Catholics "wiped" out the natives.

In any case to show just how hypocritical this "liberal" nonsense is it is time to mention the ten million pound mexican elephant in the room.

You knew this day would come:

If Irish illegals should be deported what about the rest: the estimated ten million strong illegals in the US. Should they be deported?

If not, why not?

Serenity Now!

asdasd wrote: »

I am in favour of the illegal Irish being sent home. As a fan of closed borders why would I not be. The famine I mentioned to point out that Ireland was subjected to a loss of population, caused by imperialism, in response to your ahistorical and blood libelous claim that Irish Catholics "wiped" out the natives

As a 'fan' of legal migration (:rolleyes:), I'd respond to this super-melodramatic blinkered naivete/sanctimonium ad nauseum that no idigenous blood is on the hands on anyone from this island (roman catholic or otherwise) if the mods permitted. Start a thread on it, I'd suggest, fella.

asdasd wrote: »

In any case to show just how hypocritical this "liberal" nonsense is it is time to mention the ten million pound mexican elephant in the room.

You knew this day would come:

If Irish illegals should be deported what about the rest: the estimated ten million strong illegals in the US. Should they be deported?

If not, why not?

Moral relativism or sidetrack? I dunno. The subject is the Irish overstaying their visas in the States demanding recognition and special treatment from the US govt. You're agreeing with me. They should be deported.

The Corinthian

asdasd wrote: »

The famine I mentioned to point out that Ireland was subjected to a loss of population, caused by imperialism, in response to your ahistorical and blood libelous claim that Irish Catholics "wiped" out the natives.

Historically, the Irish, like all the other Europeans, have a fair share of blood on their hands. Not only in the Americas, but Africa, Australia and India also. You may consider this libellous, but there is plenty of evidence available that would prove this. You might consider examining this.

Of course, this does not mean that the Irish in America single-handedly 'wiped' anyone out, only that they were also party to it. After all, part of building America required the annexation of land and all that came with it.

If Irish illegals should be deported what about the rest: the estimated ten million strong illegals in the US. Should they be deported?

All illegal immigrants should be deported - in Ireland or the US. Then again, I'm not a liberal.

Serenity Now!

The Corinthian wrote: »

Historically, the Irish, like all the other Europeans, have a fair share of blood on their hands. Not only in the Americas, but Africa, Australia and India also. You may consider this libellous, but there is plenty of evidence available that would prove this. You might consider examining this.

Of course, this does not mean that the Irish in America single-handedly 'wiped' anyone out, only that they were also party to it. After all, part of building America required the annexation of land and all that came with it.

All illegal immigrants should be deported - in Ireland or the US. Then again, I'm not a liberal.

Perfectly put. Better than I could have anyway...and I'm neither a liberal or wingnut

Permabear

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Serenity Now!

donegalfella wrote: »

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And thats the reason I brought up indigenous inhabitants of countries such as the States. Historical shash about the Irish building the country.
They're no different to any other and deserve no preferential treatment.
Illegal is illegal.

Feelgood

Did anyone by any chance happen to see the glossy pullout in the Star either Saturday or Friday?.

All about the history of the Irish in America, obviously the Star isn't exactly the best source of reference on this. An interesting article none the less.